Aonar

*Sigh* Fine, Orlok . I'll vote for Lemon, even though it seems to be the trend now. >> ...Oh, whoops. Orlok. Lemon .

Lemon, because I can't very well follow the trend now can I? (Will change to Rae if the vote changes to look close and I'm around.)

Nothing is always more useful than something. No. Yes. I have perish'd in the impenetrable forests at the hands of gargantuan black bear; you are currently communicating with my shade, and apparently, owe him two denari for another crossing back into Hades after having so inhumanely dragged him back from the meadows of asphodel.

I'm sad that Aman was lynched so early, honestly. A good idea or not, I enjoy gambits.

I strongly support the no-lynch policy. Goes back to my roots ya'know. First lynch I ever participated in I voted for a no lynch. Funnily enough that was a conversion game too...

Well, I guess I'll be that guy who signs up five minutes late. I guess we're going to be Nickel Izenry.

:shrug: Sure? They have to both be Named, and they have to be directly in conflict. (Essentially, they must either be of opposing alignments or have opposing goals or win conditions.) Everything has to tie back to solid mechanics somehow. While this mechanic adds a fair bit of freedom if you're willing to work for it, it's not something you can generate from nothing.

1. Possible, with the right build up. However, note that this build up is rather public. If someone doesn't want it to happen, there's no reason they can't interfere. Also, if you do manage it, it might not turn out the way you expect. 2. Again, build up. Maybe. The Heroic sacrifice angle doesn't work for everyone. 3. Not quite right for a pattern of three. Rule of Three gets involved for more of a contest or confrontation, tending to involve a nemesis or rival of some sort. If that happened and then they found themselves in opposition, and they were both Named, then sure. (Pattern of Three tends not to be invoked by people without Roles.)

Okay. Time to post the final version (maybe, we'll see) of yet another non-Sanderson idea I've had. (Only good ideas I'm getting lately, sorry. :P) A Practical Guide to Elimination: Any thoughts? I know it'll be a while before it gets run, even if I manage to get permission for it, but hey.

That activity, though. Five posts in over a day. Well, I was both boring and starved, now I think I'm just boring (if not, I'll lose a life. Yay? ). I'd... really like to stay boring, but I feel obligated to retain some degree of activity in this game, and that's easier if I can do things. >> That guy who is probably me.

Hey, random note; if there are any single elementalists out there, I'd be interested in a proposition. I'd like to have some fancy powers.

Indignation? I'm enjoying myself. Some of Len and Drake's actions and suggestions have been mildly annoying, but it's more than balanced out by getting to mess with them. Talking long term I don't care what they do, but in the moment I'm enjoying attacking their position.

It's a dictator move because you're strongly encouraging players to comply with a large-scale change to the gamestate from a position of perceived superiority. Said position is false, but regardless your actions are somewhat irksome. Anyways, I know what your role is. >> Everyone's known what your role is since the moment you claimed to have extra votes, my dude. On that note, let's take a closer look at the DM rules, shall we? Emphasis mine. "Each night" implies that the ability is restricted to a single use each cycle, regardless of action periods. "two of the following" states that they can make two of the following actions. Not that they have two uses of the following abilities. That wording difference is crucial, since it means that they cannot use the same ability twice, per single use of the DM role. If the above was not the intent of your rule, Len, perhaps in the future you should be more careful with your wording. (And you know, not create intentionally broken rules.)

Oh I'm considering Drake, but you've got my back up now, and I'm feeling... obstinate. You've got a convert, yeah... that has odds to fail on a not insignificant chunk of players. And it's one per cycle. You'll probably end up killing more than you convert, off pure logistics. Again, I'm aware. But like I said, I'm feeling just the slightest touch uncooperative. I agree that the rules are broken. (Although I don't believe your voting powers actually exist. No one has yet to explain why I should.) However, I think I'd prefer to restructure them myself, thanks. I don't need or want your rule to reset the game. Oh, is that so Len? Now I don't believe that's true. I'll admit I haven't been paying too much attention until recently, but the Worldsmiths are neutral, are they not? They only wish to survive with items. Honestly I'm not sure why they were given a kill; it feels extraneous. They only reason you oppose the "village" is because the village opposes itself, and no one bothered giving this game a clear end condition. Both of these are things that need to be rectified. Funnily enough, we can put three rules into place this turn. The steriotypical village rule, although somewhat offensive, would at least unite the factionless, and make you an eliminator in truth, if that is what you want. And then we'll go from there. We don't need more weird niche rules, or to throw everything out and start again, just a few consice ones to get things working again. We need to scrap the double life rule. We need to unite the faction less into a single group. We need to lay out clear parameters for the game to end. That done, we can adjust till we're happy. No more, no less. Any "broken" interactions can be resolved by GM ruling.

I'll admit misreading that, I suppose, although why bother mention it then? Its true for everyone, and not really a consideration. :shrug: Am I wrong? You're casually admitting you plan to kill all the factionless and then exploit the structure of the game to get yourself out of a sticky situation of your own making. Now, you currently have... one faction kill, one possible elementalist kill, and some item kills you won't want to use since doing so harms your chances of winning. Have fun killing all the factionless before we band together and kill the lot of you. That's a fact. Heck, odds are it might happen anyways, even if you decide not to go through with the plan. I don't consider it uncivil to point out what the consensus of the majority of the players will be.

^Ahem. The implication here is that once boring, one cannot become not boring unless they vote for themselves. Sorry. The small, cherry picked part of the rule you quoted involved becoming boring in the first place. Sure, sure. You don't backstab each other... and you earn yourself a hearty "storm you" from all the factionless. Yeah... not happening sorry. Umm... no? You can't vote that many times. Explain to me, exactly how the hell the rules allow for that. The reference to Sheep's headache was facetious, but there's no way the rules as written allow for that. You both have an extra life. You both already have this feature. Being married does not give you both two extra uses of this feature. By your logic, without the extra lives rule, marrying would innately grant you an extra life, which is stupid and illogical. Actually, I was referring to the "Marriage is irreversible," statement. Irreversible. You do not stop being married. Period. If one of you dies, that corpse is being buried with that ring and heaven help you if you try to take it off. And yes, voting on someone interesting will prevent them from becoming boring. This is not being debated.

I'd vote on you Drake, and you too, Len, but I'm boring, and would like to remain so out of a stubborn sense of pride in my mundanity. (For your information, you should read the rules a little closer. You achieved literally nothing with that vote, since A: You affected 6 people tops, and B: people are only unboringified if they vote for themselves. Make sure you can actually do whatever dumb thing you're trying, next time please.) Also, the Worldsmiths explicitly cannot work with the Brotherhood. Please check your facts. I do agree that a lot of the rules in place are dumb, and should be fixed. However, You clearly haven't thought through your plan, and on top of that I don't trust you. Oh, you two married each other? How sweet. I'm assuming you left out the part where all your teammates have to die in order for said combined win to actually work, yeah? Now, how hard is it for literally anyone who wants to kill one of your and end it all... Umm... bro. Have you been taking advantage of Sheep's headache to get weird rule clarifications? Between the two of you, you have twelve votes. You cannot make people not boring. You each have two lives, since the ability does not stack, as it's one you both have. Marriage is not annulled after death, and you cannot marry multiple people at the same time, ergo, you can only marry once. This is RAW. Now go rethink your plan, and come back if you have something actually valid to say.

As, for the first, fair enough. You only had reason to suspect Drought if El revealed the full details of her role. As for the second, I think I still disagree. Zeta's realm happens, and suddenly Flash and Shqueeves die on concurrent cycles; kills very clearly made by a newly created SK (Whitelegs kills are pretty distinguishable, assuming I write a write-up. >>). Do you think "oh wow, how did this villager who became an SK suddenly learn all of our identities, who is this mysteriously well-informed villager?" or do you put a kill in on Drought? I'd be willing to bet you'd do the second; or, at very least, you'd think long and hard about it. Or, at the very, very least, Drought is worried enough about the possibility to spread the kills out. This we've talked about a bit over FB; probably pointless to just repeat stuff here. Anyways, thank you, very much. Despite my crabbiness about the Engineer and the Whitelegs, I'm glad you enjoyed the game.

I disagree with that, actually. A smart SK is going to focus on the village with only the odd Elim kill thrown in, or else they're going to be made painfully obvious, and just result in mutual destruction. The interaction between the Wandering Eye and Whitelegs is a fair point, but the Elims were right to be suspicious of you, although because of that they should have been suspicious of Drought as well. You and Drought share a win con, you went to Zeta's realm; if one of you is converted, you both are. The logic there is not hard. Converted Elims don't work when doing so gives the convert more power than the Elims, and I don't think that happened, this time. In this case, I'd argue they did have warning (albeit indirectly) the SK doesn't have an incentive to kill the Elims first, and, on top of that, you existed. The Wandering Eye is a powerful role that essentially gets to choose its side, as you did. (Aside: Honestly, I was annoyed the whole game at the level of paranoia you guys had about doc-spying. The odds of you actually getting spied on, assuming they even chose to spy on you, was 1/(5(x+1)). (x being the number of PMs.) You make three PMs and the odds of being spied on are basically nil. Communication was only as limited as you let it be. The problem with LG33 was that I believed that it was something that wasn't possible, and it ended up something with decently large odds of happening. With the number of PMs you made, El, there was a less than 1% chance any of your doc communications were going to be intercepted. >>)

RNG man. That's how it goes.

Okay. GM thoughts. So, Secret roles: Wandering Eye: This one was kind of fun, conceptually. A Neutral that’s not actually neutral. They can’t die, don’t count for anyone’s win conditions; but they win which one of those win conditions; which one varying on the state of the game. I think El had fun with this one, on balance, although I know she wasn’t very happy with us after what happened to Drought. Quicksilver: The conversion killer that had to kill themselves to convert. Probably my favourite role to come out of this game; although Stick may not have won, I hope she had fun possessing people. This is one I hope to see reworked into either an SK or Faction mechanic for Kandra in a Sanderson game. *Nudge* Whitelegs: A standard SK (who has a very small chance to be added into the game, by another role), save the fact that they want to protect a certain player, who, notably, does not win with the SK. Although Lopen and Megasif died rather early, unfortunately, I think Drought did manage to have a bit of fun with this one. Again, I know El wasn’t happy with this, and I’ll touch on that a bit later, when I get to Zeta. Secret Mechanics: Main things here, are Zeta and the Mediums. Zeta: Well, Zeta while Zeta only went off once, it went off early, during a meeting, and effected the maximum number of people possible. That was interesting. >> Honestly, it wouldn’t have had that large an impact; without Lopen’s influence (be getting to that in a moment) El wouldn’t have been effected at all, and Mega might have flipped alignments, rather than becoming a Whitelegs. Cutting off communications for those players had a very large effect though; one that wasn’t necessarily bad, but definitely did effect the game more than I expected. Now, on the secret (or at least, obscured) parts of that mechanic. Zeta’s role had a very (very) small chance to generate a Whitelegs naturally (something like a 2.5% chance) but Zeta was able to manipulate their realm, once inside it, in a similar manner to making everything boring. Given that everything in that realm has at least a degree of randomness, that’s a fairly strong ability. Lopen decided he wanted to up the odds of El and Megasif gaining secret alignments, and well, we all saw how that turned out. Honestly, I don’t think this was broken. Yeah, getting an SK thrown into an Elim team is bad, but, but really it hurts both factions about equally, and it’s definitely better than one of them flipping to villager; something that was made explicit in the rules, and, oddly, no one complained about the odds of happening. Also in Zeta’s realm, the OoA was randomized, targets could switch, and roles could have strange effects; a good example being Araris’s attack on El; in Zeta’s realm, the Engineer’s robot will attack any Dragonslayer, for flavour reasons. Mediums and Guardians: Well, everyone learned this one, eventually. Not knowing how the game was going to play out, the Mediums were meant as a balancer, similar to Quicksilver; if one thread got too far ahead, the Medium could sow some chaos to try to ensure a tie. This… didn’t really happen, and it made me sad. Misc: Making Everything Boring: Stink never actually got a chance to use his role, and that made me sad. I was interested to see how this played. Distribution: I’m still trying to decide if I got this wrong, or if I got this right. I gave the Elims on both sides a bit of info gathering, and some vote-manipulation, and balanced their numbers on the fact that Orlok and El would be working together (and that El was the Wandering Eye) and expected inactivity. I don’t think I got this way wrong, although I am clearly a little out of touch with which players are active and which aren’t. >> I didn’t do the same for the village factions, though. Pre-game, El and Orlok suggested putting all the older players in one thread, and newer in the other; you’ll notice, although this nearly happened, it didn’t quite; this is because I’d already done a distribution, and ended up with pretty close to this, anyways, and didn’t feel like changing it. However, this had a very notable impact; the Forest ended up with a lot more inactive and semi-active players, which hurt them. Not to say the Court wasn’t hurt by this either (would have been a much different game, were Meta active) but it was definitely worse on the Forest side. The Test: This was… never actually utilized. Flash Tested due to his role, and there was lots of talk about using the Test to game-throw, but no one actually used it. (Drake did try to jump ship, but died first.) This… may not be a bad thing. Honestly, I’m still not sure how the Test would play out. In concept, I think it’s fine, but the relatively low number of players in each thread makes the game unstable as-is, and the Test only exacerbates that. That’s a big thing with much of this game; everything is very fragile, balance wise, but part of the idea is to have enough competing elements that they pull themselves back into balance. Which I think I nearly succeeded with, although not quite. And yeah, at the moment, anyways, I think that’s about all. Regardless of all the above, hopefully everyone had fun. Let me know if I missed something. Complete Player List: Locke Tekiel (Orlok Tsubodai) Witch Marv (Hemalurgic Headshot) Shadowman Straw (Straw) Forest Dweller Elbe (Elbereth) Wandering Eye Budgie (A Budgie) Telepath Altea Meza (Crimsn-Wolf) Barrier Mage Araris Valerian (Araris Valerian) Engineer Tautali Laust (Megasif) Forest Dweller Centaurus (Darkness Ascendant) Air Elemental Stick (Stick) Quicksilver Carrie Brule (Burnt Spaghetti) Student Koru (Doc12) Renard Bart Allen (Flash) Hollow Faerie, Telepath Clanky (Clanky) Demi Fire Elemental The Inspector (Paranoid King) Forest Dweller Reginald Canuk (Dalinar Kholin) Forest Dweller Sean (Polkinghornbd) Forest Dweller Anwir (Drake Marshal) Student Anansi (Metacognition) Student Fess (Arinian) Regional Faerie John (Winter Devotion) Student Jordren (Majestic) Anwyn Small Large (Stink) Making Everything Boring Lyren (Droughtbringer) Wisp Shqueeves (Shqueeves) Etheric Scientist Pickle (asterion137) Teleporter Rendren (cloudjumper) Rogat Orjak Kintas (Jondesu) Forest Dweller Lopen (TheMightyLopen) Zeta Noah (Eternum) Ysengrin Tarek (Randuir) Student Michelle (BrightnessRadiant) Student Ecthelion Student Loc (Lady of Chaos) Forest Dweller

You both reached parity last the night before the Meeting; the only thing that changed was that you, Flash and Orlok died, leaving the Forest thread at parity, and giving the Court an edge in their thread. And, honest question here. How many people still keep notes as they play? Back in my day (), most people did, and for me personally, getting or not getting a player list doesn't inconvenience me much; I keep track of who died and what their role was in my personal notes. Really thought the main reason they didn't happen more was because I didn't think out rollover well; by the time midnight rolls around I can barely think straight (which I'm aware lead to some strange and contradictory rulings in the wake of rollovers >>) let alone remember everything I'm expected to put in a write-up. On that note, it's 1AM and getting to the point typing words is hard, so g'night.

“Dawn had just broken on the sixth day when Coyote padded across the bridge, surveying the destruction his tools had wrought. Felled trees, abandoned buildings, bodies, still yet to be properly interred; all spoke of his fell cunning in culling the Forest and the Court alike.” “A few stood still in the ramshackle Meeting Hall; the Court formed the majority, a definitive group lead by Young and Steadman. The remaining Forest dwellers seemed lost, shuffling aimlessly at the fringes.” “Anansi and Elbe, however, each stood alone. Coyote turned to them first.” “‘Ah, Wandering Eye! It’s good to see you, old one. And my Quicksilver! You’ve been using my power well?’” “‘It is good to see you too, Coyote.’ Elbe seemed quiet, calm. But Coyote knew better. ‘You may claim to be a stone, Wandering Eye, but I can see the truth. You’re hurting, aren’t you?’ Although he seemed the picture of sympathy, faint laughter echoed in the wind.” “Before Elbe could speak further, Anansi scuttled to Coyote’s side. ‘I think I have used my power well, Lord Coyote! Look how few remain!’” “‘Hmm. My power, you mean?’” “‘Yes, yes, of course, my Lord!’” “‘Enough. I’ll be taking my power back, now.’ Anansi dropped, yellow light burning briefly in his eyes, before extinguishing.” “Young glared at Coyote, anger warring with defeat on his face. ‘End this farce, Coyote. Why are you here? And why are there humans that have come from the Forest claiming I sent them there, when I did no such thing?’” “‘Ahahahahahaha!’ Coyote rolled on his back, grinning and laughing madly. ‘Did you like my trick, Sir Young? Life was getting so terribly boring, with the Wood and Court separated, and things relatively peaceful.’” “‘...Your own people fared even worse coming out of this than we did Coyote, how could you?’” “‘Oh, don’t be a poor sport, Young. Anyways, you don’t think I really let them die, do you?’ Coyote’s paws elongating, becoming skeletal hands, he suddenly brandished a handful of totems, one for each who had fallen. ‘I can put things back the way they were before, if you really want.’ Coyote wound his way to Young’s side, resting his muzzle on the man’s shoulder. ‘I just need something from you. Your people acquitted themselves admirably, so it won’t even be very much.’” “‘...What do you want?’” “‘I want you to listen, and remember: Despite your accomplishments, you humans are not gods. And you never will be.’” “Turning away, Coyote knew Young would mull over those words, and he would scheme to prove him wrong." "Coyote knew this, and he smiled.” The Court has... won? (Barely.) Quicksilver, the Whitelegs, and the Forest have lost, and the Wandering Eye has neither lost nor won. Good game, everyone! That was… interesting, I hope? (And fun as well, hopefully, although I know this game went a little sideways.) GM thoughts will come soonish (roughly 8 hours from now when I get up), along with explanations of the various secrets, and a complete player list. Thanks a ton to Joe, for co-GMing. Docs: The Ether Coyote’s Servants The Shadow Men Quicksilver

Well, the night's over. Aftermath coming shortly-ish.

"All loyalties exposed, the Wood and the Court began to directly fight for an advantage..." [I need sleep I'm sorry. I had to get up early today, and I need to work tomorrow.] Orlok has been Lynched! They were a Witch! Rendren has been Electred Forest Medium! Barry Allen has been Elected Court Medium! Marv has been appointed Protector of the Forest! The Dragonslayer will be announced as soon as Barry Allen appoints them! You have 23 hours to get your actions in and decide your fates... Lynch: Araris (4): Orlok, DA, Flash, El Orlok (6): Dalinar, Burnt, Araris, Cloud, Budgie, HH Court Medium: Orlok (1): Flash Flash (2): El, Flash Forest Medium: DA (2); DA, HH Cloud (3): Araris, Cloud, Dalinar