Wyrmhero

I think we can assume the vote lost for Chid was due to drabness, since he was never really in any danger of being lynched. Also, as he appears to be inactive, I doubt anyone would have really cared if he died. Unless someone's being overzealous about the number of each side left, of course. Then anything's up for grabs. I think there are 26 people alive (for a given value of alive) at the moment? Am I right about that? In which case, 9 people are either not coming online to cast votes, or are holding their votes back for some reason.

I agree with lengthening the day over shortening it. We only really got discussion going during the second day, so I think it's vital to have that extra time rather than having less.

Well done guys. Immediately after someone says 'no bandwagon votes', you managed overnight to bandwagon Dyrii for no reason other than Aonar voting for him. I know we don't have truly damning evidence for anyone yet, but I'd hope you want some evidence. Just because the only known good guy votes for him doesn't make him evil. Same for you guys who jumped on my vote for Chide. People seem to like jumping on my votes for inactives without a reason (well, other than 'he's inactive so no loss'). I'd find it suspicious if it weren't for the fact that the Pahn Kahl would probably prefer to lynch someone active.

Well, might as well jump in to defend myself before anyone else accuses me, since I happen to be online I didn't say it was bad because it wasn't fun - In fact, I didn't pass judgement against your plan on anything other than a personal level. I was just commenting that I would find the game a lot less fun if only Aonar and the Pahn Kahl had reasons to play (since the rest of us couldn't really contribute information gathered at night as we'd be Drabs). We have enough inactive people already, don't want to make more by making everyone give away Breath. I also mentioned a few other things about it, such as the fact that Returned couldn't give away their Breath and that we can only defend him for so long, and there are ways around it. I didn't cast explicitly judgement on the game from a gameplay perspective though, I admit. In fact, as I said before, I actually agree with it up to a point - That point being getting Aonar up to 11 or 14 Breaths (I forgot that the first would be his own one and that just makes him 'normal' rather than First Heightening) and no further. But we should by no means force people into this, because it's not fun to be told what to do in a game. Besides, I'm hardly the only person to object, just the only one who decided to write a mini essay about it

Just pointing out guys, we have less than a day left. We need to get discussion started, especially since it's the weekend and more people should theoretically be about.

Another night, another death. Every night, Wyrm went to an uneasy sleep hoping that there would not be another death the next night. And each time, he was disappointed. By the time he had come down from his room, book in hand, accusations were already being thrown around. So far, it was just for Jeo and Ver, but in his opinion Thomas was once again acting a bit suspicious, whispering things to people. Cog seemed to have calmed down, for the moment, though he was currently leading a charge at Jeo. Bart was still behaving oddly, but would a Pahn Kahl give his precious Breath away in order to throw off suspicion? Maybe. But then, so would someone who believed what they were doing was correct. It was hardly proof. Not that they had much proof to go on anyway. All Wyrm had at least were people's actions. He was never good at reading people; his job never put him in contact with them much, and even before he became a scientist and scholar, he wasn't good at talking to them. "I still don't think we've heard anything from Chide since this mess started, have we?" If anyone is the spy, then shouldn't Aonar be able to save them by telling the Idrians at least not to vote for him? Then the rest of us can follow suit as well. So we should be safe voting for Idrians with roles. In fact, safer than we would be of voting for Hallandrens.

Well, getting back to the game itself, does anyone have any information they've discovered overnight that could help us pick someone to grill for information? EDIT: Aonar, who has not told you of their abilities yet? That seems like a good place to start.

As a side note, if everyone gave their Breath to him would also kill off any of our Returned, since there's no way for partial Breath transferal in this game. In addition, speaking as a player, I'd hate to give away all my Breaths to one person for no reason other than 'because he's definitely safe'. Why bother playing after that? My sole contribution to the game would be to give my abilities to another player, and then I just exist to give my vote to whoever Aondar decides is guilty because he's basically the only person who can discover extra information, or to be killed. As such, I will not give my Breath away on such an idea, as I like playing and actually being able to do something. Don't forget, any protection we can give Aondar is one use. Mercenaries, Returned and Fifth Heightening only work once, and after that we're reliant on being able to make a Lifeless each night. Besides, all the Pahn Kahl have to do instead of attacking Aondar is start killing off drabs. Then they won't get any Breath, and people will still die, and Aondar will appear to be the only person who is Awakened. So if you want to give your Breath away to him until he reaches 10th Heightening, by all means, do so. But we should only attempt to get him to 10th Heightening (maybe 13 Breaths so he can awaken a Strawman), and no further.

It's always good to encourage creativity, in my opinion. The fact that it's based on someone else's work doesn't mean it can't be creative. The only problem with fanfiction is that it usually isn't creative. The reason so much fanfiction is below par is because the writers either don't care for what they're writing, or they set it in such a way that it results in a completely different world which isn't connected to the original work in anything other than character name - This is obvious with the apparent love of high school fanfiction, since most fanfiction authors are (American) high school students. Anything says that, you know it's going to be poor. The other problem is that when people start writing, they have no experience of actually writing or planning before. They'll write something and post their first draft, possibly the first thing they've ever creatively written (for a given value of creativity). I know I'm guilty of this. At a young age, you think it's the best thing you've ever thought of. You want people to know how brilliant it is. Now I am older, wiser, have more experience in reading and more experience in writing, I know how much of a fool I was. I can look back on old works, particularly old RPs set in a universe (collaborative fanfiction, you could call it), and say to myself 'I had some good ideas. They might not have been implemented well, but the core idea was good'. That's something I can take away from it, as well as the fact that I have improved as a writer immensely. You get different opinions of course depending on who you ask. If I was an author, I would be pleased that people like my universe enough to write their own little bits. In a way, I see it like game modding, which I am also a great fan of. You mentioned George RR Martin, and other authors - I know at least that there's a part in Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series (in which all literature exists in its own, separate world) where the protagonist meets badly made caricatures of herself from the land of fanfiction, and the author really makes in plain and clear that he hates it passionately. You mentioned that Martin dislikes it because it means people don't make characters up. That is a part of storytelling, yes. But I would argue that the fact that people can use them to practice writing really quickly is rather good. Of course, they fall short on characterisation because of that as a necessity, but I still think it's a good way to get quickly into writing, and more importantly to a place where critique can be given to improve your writing. It's almost impossible for people just doing their own world to get that sort of discussion going, simply because people usually aren't interested in reading an unknown work online. Some fanfiction has some really creative ideas. I wouldn't say I've ever read a piece of fanfiction that has been better than the work it's been based upon, but usually the best fanfiction takes the universe and changes the focus onto things the author didn't comment upon, possibly due to the audience it was aimed at or other limitations. It's just when the author ignores the universe (or changes arbitrary things) that problems happen, in my opinion. Of course, we've recently seen some fanfiction becoming actual fiction, which I think is a very dangerous trend, particularly when it comes to fanfiction written on fanfiction.net. The problem there is that it isn't their own universe, the characters aren't their own characters (even if they have a different name), and thus a lot of stuff will be missing. But then, the most of sort of people who read fanfiction and would read things like that (naming no names) don't critically review it, and will miss things like this. So, in summary: I think fanfiction is good for creativity, but you shouldn't expect great things of it. There are some isolated pieces of really good work in every fandom - Sturgeon's Law. But primarily it should be seen as someone's hobby and practice, rather than anything more solid.

Actually, that would be really fun. Claincy, if the Pahn Kahl don't win, can we negotiate a treaty?

That makes no sense at all, unless you want a draw between the Hallandren and Idrian sides above everything else. But we don't want that. Oh, we're willing to work together in order to get the Pahn Kahl, but we shouldn't be deliberately aiming for a draw between the two sides to the point of being willing to suicide for it. The 'best' scenario for the world of Nalthis as a whole would be one in which the Hallendran and the Idrian sides work together to achieve a lasting peace instead of trying to take advantage of each other. That doesn't mean that it's the best situation for the people though. The Idrians will want to be in a stronger position in negotiations, as will the Hallandrens. So we shouldn't be trying to go for a draw. My thoughts are that anyone who ends up suggesting (later on in the game - I won't suggest that you are one because you're making this point at the moment) that people kill themselves in order to achieve a draw is a Pahn Kahl in disguise. Same for people who suggest going after people known to be completely innocent, just because they're on the opposite side, at this point in the game. We should be trying to get a win for the 'good' side no matter what. Which of the 'good' sides would win in such a circumstance should be a secondary consideration. Having said that, I've no doubt that when we get closer and closer to the end, people will start to consider that secondary win condition. But we shouldn't be entertaining thoughts about that yet, in my opinion. There are three sides here, yes, but a Pahn Kahl win is a loss for everyone else, and a Pahn Kahl loss is a win for everyone as well, even if your side doesn't come first. At least, that's how I see it.

Wyrm was rather saddened by the reaction of most of the rather unique individuals in the town. He was only throwing names around to provoke discussion, to get people to come forward and become involved in what was going on, and yet so many of them weren't defending themselves. He understood that most people would like to ignore what was happening, to pretend it didn't concern them, but it was vital that they discovered who it was who wanted to kill off any attempt to create a lasting peace. That wasn't helped by people remaining quiet. "I understand that Swimmingly was killed because he did not speak in his own defence," he said, agreeing with Summon that it was a shame he didn't say anything, "but I do find it curious how many people jumped on my random accusation of Chide. Such mentality frightened me, I will admit. I fear people aren't thinking about what is going on, and are simply latching on to anything to try and save themselves from another night of death. It was a shame that we killed an innocent man today. Perhaps his sacrifice will save many more when we discover who is at fault, and stop them from disrupting these talks." He sighed. "But if I am honest, even thinking about it like that will still not help me sleep at night."

When I voted for Chide, I certainly wasn't expecting other people to vote as well for him. I was just hoping to make someone active again - Though I suppose that if they're not saying anything at all to defend themselves with three people (now two) on them, they don't matter too much... Since Swimm has a lot of votes, it seems he's going to be the one for the hangman's noose. Yesterday I said that if Swimm didn't say anything, I'd change my vote to him to put pressure on him, but I've realised I won't be able to actually change it back later today if he does turn up. As such, I will change my vote to another inactive. I will vote for Thomas again, as I did on the first day, because he's only posted once with an RP reaction-post to the death last night, and didn't defend himself last time. On another note, it seems that a lot of people here aren't defending themselves when their names come up. Kind of sad at how many people seem to be inactive in the game already, or at least aren't taking part in the discussions. Perhaps a list of people who have posted once the actual discussion has gotten going would be useful.

I'll second fourth the calls for Swimmingly to explain himself, but I won't actually put my vote to him until tomorrow morning (if he doesn't appear). Considering we've got so few people actually doing the voting at the moment, I'm not sure whether we can force more of a debate about things or not though. For the time being, perhaps one of the inactives would like to appear and discuss things? Perhaps Chide?

Ah yes, sorry. Forgot that. So Aonar is clean, leaving just Cog, Bart and Swimmingly.

I believe that currently, Cog, Swimmingly, Bart and Aonar are the most suspicious. However, I have no extra information to give on this matter, and only their forum posts to go on. So, for the moment, I will wait for more information. Unfortunately, as I'm on GMT, that means that unless more information arrives very quickly, I will be posting tomorrow morning, around 4 hours before the day ends.

Night Claincy! Can anyone else confirm that Swimm said he was the Idrian Agent? EDIT: Oh, Awesomeness sent a PM saying that Swimm told them that he was lying? That's interesting... Can Awesomeness confirm that they actually sent that PM, and what its precise contents were?

I'm not sure who to vote for at the moment, considering I've no proof on my own end other than what people have said here, so I'm going to leave my vote until the evening. Having said that though, is it possible to verify Adolin as an Agent during any night, or are roles only detectable when used (or killed)?

I spent so much time checking that I was getting it right and STILL got the numbers wrong...

They got a spy on the first night? That really hurts. So, just to check, there are now 14 Idrians and 15 Hallendrens left now (with Kahn Pahl and a Hallendren agent hiding within them), right?

The first post in the thread confirms it takes place just after Warbreaker, Pilgrim.

Wyrm was glad that neither of the two suspects had died, even if he had voted for one of them himself. They just needed information, and even accusing someone gave information they could use. He'd never expected other people to jump in an agree with him. Did they have information he didn't have? No, impossible. Most of them had only just arrived. They couldn't have been investigating one-another already. Maybe they were just guessing. ...Maybe they were trying to get Thomas killed. All the same, he was glad that he wasn't responsible for a death after all that. He would probably be responsible for someone's death soon, if these Pahn Kahl agents weren't caught, but the longer he could delay it the easier he could sleep. Though he doubted he'd be sleeping well for some time regardless. So is it good or bad we didn't kill anyone?

Gamma, I think that if you're weakening the defensive role (the Lurcher), you should weaken the Coinshot somewhat as well? I'd say Injure/Kill/2*Kill (as in, the third flare counts as two hits against someone). This could also be important because now the Thug can hit someone, the offensive roles outnumber the defensive ones. Though does the Lurcher protect someone from a Thug like that? But currently as it stands, as a Coinshot I'd probably just not bother with flaring my metals at the second level at all - If I wanted someone to not have any actions, I'd just kill them. As a Coinshot, I would just use one charge at a time, and then flare to three if I'm unlucky enough to hit a Thug and have to attack him again in order to make sure.

Wyrm sighed as all the accusations flew around him. He closed his book shut with a snap and looked around, unsure of what to do. After all, he didn't want to be responsible for the death of someone. But at the same time, how could he in good conscience let these subversives do as they please? Unfortunately, there was too little information to go on, and people were already throwing accusations around. "I would ask Thomas to give us an account of his whereabouts last night", he said, looking at the so-far quiet wanderer. Perhaps that was why he 'wandered' here - to disrupt these peace talks. True, the man claimed to be Idrian, and the Idrians wanted peace more than anyone else... But perhaps that was just his cover. It would be only too easy for an Idrian to kill another Idrian without a fight, and who would suspect an Idrian Awakener?

Wyrm was worried. Not just the fact that one of the negotiators was murdered - People were murdered all the time (well, figuratively speaking), so it could just be a coincidence. He could pass it off as that, if it weren't for the fact that Awakening was involved. No, this was a warning, not just a murder. There were subversive elements here, though he couldn't really make a guess at who could have been responsible for this. He had his theories, oh, he had theories. But no proof, no evidence. That made it difficult to say anything. "Who could've done this?" He muttered to himself, unable to tear his eyes away from the grey floor at the scene. "Who doesn't want peace?" Maybe he should just leave the village before anything else happened. It would be impossible to get any real research done here, not when the entire town would be buzzing with this news. And that wasn't even considering that this might be the first warning. I believe we're allowed to edit for spelling/grammar, but nothing else, right?