Wyrmhero

I think there is only one solution available for the good guys: Give the rabbits your Breath! We must have Awakener Rabbits!

I'll hold you to that. Everyone protect him! I must have my speech! With colourful flowers! And fireworks! And gifts for all!

Alas, I die with Pahn Kahl as my reputation. I told you I was ill innocent

Can't say I'm surprised. In the interests of completeness, would we have been told as soon as it happened, or at the end of the day/night period? If the former, then we should probably know whose Breath it was that gave him Tenth Heightening. In all honesty, Wyrm was rather jealous of Aodan. He'd never reached Tenth Heightening himself, though that was partially due to the fact he'd hidden his Divine Breath ever since he escaped the Court of the Gods many years ago. Aodan was now on the level of the God King, Heightening-wise, though the sheer number of Breaths that Susebron still meant that the God King towered over the priest in power. "I thought that Idrians believed that each person should have just their own Breath, Aodan? Though I suppose that, given the circumstances and the fact that they were all gifts, it could be excused." Really, of all people to reach Tenth Heightening, an Idrian priest? He shook his head in amusement. Austre - or whatever the voice was that he had heard when he Returned - had a sense of humour, it seemed.

Well, might as well get the benefit of Seventh Heightening. I am indeed a Returned.

Fixed, thanks. As an aside, that's curious, and plays a little bit with Aonar's possible scenarios. It could be, then, that the Pahn Kahl put a Breath into an Awakened Rope to ensure they got exactly Ninth Heightening without going over and letting us all know that someone had hit Tenth. Or it could've been on Aili's suggestion to stop Jeo getting lynched, come to think of it. Aili, mind clarifying if that Awakened Rope was at your insistence or not? If not, then that suggests that the PKs have been tweaking their Heightenings slightly by storing Breaths away. It might be they have Breaths stored away, ready to retrieve them in order to use their sword. Something we should probably take into account before assuming they will run out of Breaths quickly. I love how 'Pahn Kahl' abbreviates the same way as 'Player Killers', incidentally

The rules state that it protects against one 'attack', but if it works like pewter, then that would make sense too. Asking Claincy for a bit more clarification.

Updated list Bart - Gammer, Cog, Wyrm Grim - Sart, Dainard Rick - Jim Bob Dirt, Wes Wyrm - Aili, Thomas Chide - Peng Bart - Wyrm Elo - Sifa Peng - Aonar Breath - Grim, Ben, Bart People who have still not voted or given away Breath today - Alan, Asgren, Tril, Cen, Chide, Elo, Rick, Wil'son, Ver. Rowan has retracted his vote but not voted again yet. Cen, Chide and Ver seem to be inactive for good. Sart, Jim, Thomas and Sifa are voting for the first time. The polls have a 46% turnout rate.

I'd like to thank those of you who have changed your mind about me or changed your vote for other reasons. Why would entering the Breath Lottery matter? Having a measure of protection would just stop me from being attacked overnight, and if that's how you're planning on proving my innocence, I'd rather you didn't Also, clarification there - I am of Second Heightening, so I have three Breaths - I started the game with one, and then gained two more over the course of the game, on nights 1 and 3. Now, there's one other thing that people are missing about Bart's plan, which is that it would also neccessitate revealling our Returned. If everyone gives their Breaths away in public, then either our Returned will die or they will not give them away. All the Pahn Kahl have to do after that is to go after the people who didn't give their Breaths away, and there go our Returned. For that matter, they could hide within either our Returned or our Drabs, and we'd be none the wiser. I must admit, I didn't realise that an Awakened Sword was an unblockable kill. As such, I'll have to definitely say no to the plan, at least until we know whether we can save Aonar with the Breath of a Returned. But even then, I'd still be hesitant. It might slow the Pahn Kahl down somewhat, forcing them to play the Breath Lottery every night to kill two people each cycle, but all they really need to do is have a rota - two people killing, the rest getting Breaths, and swapping the sword between them all so they can still use it. I think all that would happen is we would lose fifteen-odd Breath-based night actions between us all in return for Aonar getting two a night. Not a great trade. With regards to losing Aonar and Aili tonight, if Aonar is of Fifth Heightening or more (and he must be by now), they now have to go after him with the Awakened Sword to definitely kill him - which will most likely result in the trade of Aonar and a Mercenary's role for a Pahn Kahl and an Awakened Sword. So if we do lose Aonar, we at least get something back from it. Perhaps that will scare them off though, considering how high a price it would be.

Bah, I just looked for colours...

Hey, we have another two days of voting left you know. I can still turn this around and survive! Besides, I can give away my Breath during the actual lynching itself, though I may be inclined to let you crash and burn at that point... (Not really - Aonar, at least, has my goodwill, so I would give my two Breaths to him). Speaking of which, we do have another two days left. When today started, I mentioned that the good thing about having a 96-hour day was that we had longer to discuss. As such, should we not be examining other people as much as me? At the very least, I'd hate to be condemned to death after half the allotted time just because no-one else has been so carefully scrutinised. Particularly when this is a good opportunity to see how people have voted. Thomas has now replied. I probably should've expected Thomas to vote for me when he finally made a vote, considering how much I've been pestering him over it. So I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed that he hasn't actually added to the discussion, but has just said 'yeah, you're most suspicious'. Still, I said I'd move my vote, and as such, I shall. Let's assume that the Pahn Kahl would vote, if at all, for someone who isn't one of them on the first day. Now, if we include today's current votes, only two people have voted for innocents each of the previous three times - Aili and Rowan. Now, we know the former is safe, so that just leaves Rowan. So, Rowan, care to explain why you have voted for innocents every day? And, since we seem to be basically running on guilt-by-association (not in itself a flawed method, but not a perfect science, particularly since it is impossible to explain coincidence), why did Jeo vote the same way as you on the first day? Other than Rowan though, Rick and Trill are the other two who have voted for innocents these last two days. Neither of them voted on the first day though, so we have slightly less information to go on. Summon and Bart have also given away their Breaths on the third day in public instead of at night, which is a curious thing to do. I would like to know why you did that instead of voting, and why you didn't do it at night? Summon I am less suspicious of though, so I'll concentrate on Bart. Were you desperate to prove your innocence after being suspected? You've also voted for an innocent before as well. I note that giving your Breath away on that day in particular (day 3) allowed you to avoid voting for Jeo. And you're jumping the gun with getting me to give away my Breath there too. Trying to cement the lynch of an innocent before it can be turned around? So far, the votes are like this: Wyrm - Aili, Rowan, Bart, Cog Grim - Sart, Dainard Rick - Jim Bob Dirt, Wes Tril - Ben Cog - Gammer Chide - Peng Bart - Wyrm Elo - Sifa Breath - Grim Hooray, I'm winning. Edit: Missed a vote or two. Edit 2: I'm bad at this tallying thing... Edit 3: Make that terrible.

We know from the novels that the Well refills every 1024 years with power. We know TLR and Vin both go there to take the power, and that if it is released instead, Ruin gets released. So my question is, what about the previous few times? Presumably, humans have been around on Scadrial for a long time, so do we know what happened the last times? Is there a line of Heroes of Ages who each came along and took the power, and used it? Essentially, I'm asking if we have WoB on this. If not, what do people think might've happened before?

While I'd be happy to be scanned to see my awakening level, as a plan it's not perfect. My Heightening doesn't prove anything, really. I mean, just because I'm Second Heightening doesn't mean that I'm not Pahn Kahl - Just that I have two additional Breaths, and that they are not locked up in an Awakened Sword. It's helpful to know that, but it's not enough. It's much, much better for a Spy to check me out rather than a strawman. That proves my alignment without a shadow of a doubt. Best to be 100% sure about this if you're going to do it, yes? So if you want to do this - and I'd obviously be more than happy about it, since it kind of saves my life and proves me to be innocent - ensure you do it properly

I've already done so to Aonar, but I'm happy to do so here if it will help my case. It's actually rather easy, since my actions each night have been the same - I have entered the Breath Lottery each night, and was successful on the first and third nights only.

Well reasoned, Aili. I don't know how to rehash this so they're multiple quotes, so I'll just bold my replies below. Hopefully this will at least convince some of you of my innocence. Points I will put forward for my defence: I have never changed my vote to defend someone, other than as a panic reaction against Chide in case other people joined in later on and I wasn't able to change my vote. Again, Thomas was on my mild suspicion list, so I hoped to get information from him in response. That did not happen, unfortunately, but still. I haven't voted for anyone who has been killed. The closest I've come was on the first day, and I voted against Jeo, the only known Pahn Kahl agent. If I was Pahn Kahl, would I not have tried to avoid a tie at all costs? I've never bandwagoned on someone else's vote. I've always been the first person to vote on anyone, and people have either changed their vote to mine to protect someone, or joined my vote without adding their own reasoning. I've contacted four people over the course of the game (aside from Claincy). In two occassions, yourself Aili and Cog, I've never asked for information, though I accept in your case that my follow-up question could be seen as fishing. I didn't expect to get a reply from you at all, in fact. All I can say is that it was mostly accidental, and caused because you yourself volunteered information, whether it was a lie or not. I simply wanted to confirm whether or not it was a spy, so we could be certain. With Cog, I simply made a suggestion. Again, never expected a reply from him. Other than that though, the following few PMs with him were just about something not game related. The other two people I've contacted are Summon and Aonar, and I've had long conversations with them both. With Summon, it was discussing you, actually, before we found out your innocence. We were just discussing the likelihood of your guilt as well, and then trying to piece together what had happened after we found out you were innocent. I have been in contact with Aonar since he revealed himself as a Monk. I've not only told him my role, but also what night actions I've taken, my suspicions, and other information and thoughts I've had as well. He can confirm this, as well as the sheer amount of information I have given him. I have also never asked him about other players' roles, though I have also asked him whether it was a spy who said your innocence, due to the fact that Lifeless Commands aren't entirely proof of a safe role. And finally, I find it interesting that I am accused because Jeo agreed with me on a few points, whereas you yourself were so convinced of his innocence that you got people to change their vote and hanged an innocent instead. This shows that just because Jeo agreed with me doesn't mean that I am guilty. Other people were far more convinced of his innocence, after all. And I was never truly convinced.

At this, Wyrm couldn't help but raise an eyebrow, before delving into a debate. "What ties would these be then, Cog? I voted for Thomas on the first day, and Jeo voted for Ben. Jeo didn't vote on the second day. The only possible tie I can find would be that we voted for the same person on day 3. All I can say for that is to repeat my previous statement, that I voted for Chide, and then Jeo voted the same way some time later. I can hardly help it if my attempt to gather information was hijacked, can I?" "Indeed, the fact that we voted the same way once hardly makes me guilty by association - Others have done exactly the same; Rowan, Elo, Summon, Peng and Grim have all done the same. Even Aili has voted the same way as Jeo, and even after that she voted for two innocents. But we know she is innocent of any wrongdoing. If anything, I would say that Rowan and Rick are more suspicious, as they have not only voted twice for innocents, but Rowan voted with Jeo first day, and Rick didn't vote at all on the first day." I said that I won't change my vote from Thomas until I saw a good argument or he gave more information, and I'm sticking by it. My mentioning of Rowan and Rick is just to get more of a debate going, rather than actual accusations. Having said that though, they may turn into accusations later if Thomas explains himself.

Well, that's one inactive down. We now only have 6 inactives left then. Still waiting on useful input from Thomas though, I see. Until that happens, or someone starts putting forward a complete argument about someone's guilt, I will not be changing my vote.

Aili's confirmed innocent? That's both good and annoying. Good, because now that's two people we can say are safe, though Aili seems to be accidentally protecting Pahn Kahl. On the other hand though, there goes all my theorising. That was the only solid lead I had to go on this day. There's no way to fake innocence in this game, is there? Well I'm no longer suspicious of Thomas. /snark

Honestly, it's just because you haven't taken part in any discussions like this before. It's all very well saying you'll only vote when you have sufficient evidence, but if everyone did that then we wouldn't have anything to go on.

It's rather difficult for me to say anything about the fact I voted with him. All I can say for my part is that I've just been voting for inactives since the beginning of the game to try and get them to take part, and I voted before Jeo did when he voted for Chide as well as me. I also never changed my vote to Dyrii to save Jeo, or anything like that. I decided to tabulate our final votes, for the moment, just so I can see things at a quick glance. Currently, it seems as though Cen, Sifa, Chide, Ver, Ben, Sart and Jim are all inactives. Alan, Asgren, Dyrii and Wil'son have only just started voting - Though Dyrii will never vote again, sadly... Thomas, however, has been making roughly one post each day or night, but hasn't actually voted for anyone at all yet or even defended himself the previous two days I've voted for him (particularly the first day when he was almost lynched), so it's back to accusing him for me So, Thomas, care to explain why you've never defended yourself or voted, but have still been a part of the game? People who have voted for people who have eventually been lynched: Rick, Gammer, Bartholomew, Tril, Rowan, Aili, Aodan. Obviously Aodan is safe. Gammer voted for Jeo the previous day, so she is probably safe. Of the six people who voted on the first day, only Aili and Rowan have voted for people who have been lynched later on.

Oh, right. I must've missed that post. Jeo, how could you repay her saving your life by attacking her like that? Interesting then that she was attacked, since she was at least partially convinced of Jeo's innocence. Maybe they just picked at random then, or something. So you're right about being mostly at square one. Thankfully, we have until Monday to discuss this, which is rather nice. EDIT: If they were not told but claimed to be told, then Aili should be able to point them out to us easily.

Yeah, I doubt that the Hallandrens have it (and I would be utterly amazed if the Idrians did ), so I fear that you're right, and the Pahn Kahl can now kill two people a night. We're not quite at square one, thankfully. Someone told people not to vote for Jeo because he had an important role, didn't they? People need to come forward and say who that person was, since they were obviously wrong, and Jeo was PK. Unless, of course, they were massively mistaken, but I doubt they'd do backroom deals to save Jeo if they weren't certain. So we can work on that theory at least to question people.

Good game, Jeo. I think congratulations are in order to whoever sent the Lifeless there. If it was actually Aili, well done. If not... Well, well done to whoever's hiding in the shadows there. And also someone now has an Awakened Sword. Guess we'll have to wait and see as to which side it belongs to.

Aili was a Returned? That was interesting, thought Wyrm. An Idrian Returned, at that. The Idrians revered the Returned as much as the Hallandrens did, but they didn't extend their lives with extra Breaths. Aili didn't seem to be that devout though, so that explained that strangeness away a bit. She could be buying Breaths as the Hallandrens (and a few Idrians, he'd be willing to bet) were doing. Of course, she could be stealing the Breaths away as well - The Pahn Kahl seemed to be forcing people to give up their Breaths when they killed people - but he didn't think she was Pahn Kahl. The suspicion he had was fleeting, and didn't really stand up to examination. He was probably just becoming paranoid. Who wouldn't become paranoid in these circumstances? But why reveal herself like this? He didn't think it was getting to the end of the week yet; she should have a few more days before she needed to beg more Breaths off of people. Revealing yourself to be Returned was just making you a target for the Pahn Kahl now. Although, maybe that was the point - The Returned were meant to be sent back for a reason, though Wyrm had never seen any actual proof of this. Maybe Aili's reason was to try and help the people here, and she believed that this was the best way to do it. Self-sacrifice was what the Hallandren believed their gods should do, after all.

Sounds like a plan, so go for it. Can't see any massive problems or confusion it would cause. Only issue is if/when a Returned reveals themselves, but they'd have to reveal themselves publicly so we'd know and could strike them off the list. Maybe check any Returned that reveals themselves to see if they are close to 10th instead? That would show they have a lot of Breath, equivalent to a normal person having 4th Heightening.