luckat

9 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

OK, I was busy yesterday, but I'm very surprised someone hasn't brought this up before.

Ecth lost his Breath Night 0. He declared so on Day 1. If he were a villager, he would have died at the end of Day 1 unless someone passed their Breath. No-one did pass their Breath, because then they would have been killed at the end of Night 1, and there was no mention of it in the write-up. Ecth is a confirmed Returned. (Either that or he's being a Chaotic and lied for no clear reason. But I consider the first much more likely.) The Lottery is on the Night Cycle, after Ecth would have died.

El, do you mind confirming that Drab victims will die at the end of the Day Cycle?

Here's the order of night actions from the rules:

Quote

Order of Actions
Breath Receiving/Lottery
Drab death
Awakened Rope
Lifeless
Breath Stealing
Lifeless Rabbit
Retrieve breath from Awakened objects
Awaken Objects
Strawmen

Drab death is at the beginning of the night after the Lottery, but before anything else. Breath receiving was moved to the end of the day so it would be a day action in a later clarification, but Drab death is still at night after the Lottery. So it is entirely possible Ecthelion survived due to getting a Breath in the Night 1 Lottery.

I'm surprised whoever lost their Breath hasn't spoken up yet. I wonder if that means it's one of the inactive players, or if someone's keeping quiet for in case they are a Potential Returned.

I think the best way of dealing with Ecthelion for now is for someone with a Strawman to target him. Any use of a Strawman reveals whether the target is a Potential Returned, and I confirmed with Elbereth that a person is still revealed as a Potential Returned after they Return. If a Strawman finds that Ecthelion is not a Potential Returned, then we can assume he was lucky enough to win the Lottery. If they find that he is a Potential Returned, then it’s still possible he won the Lottery, but he is likely a Returned now.

On the topic of Mark, I received a PM from him Day 1, a bit after my first post. He asked if I had 4 Breath because it seemed like a common number. When I pressed, he said he'd only had one claim, but both that and his own Breath count were 4. Then he was concerned about appearing suspicious. I implied anyone trying to steal my Breath wouldn't get much. There hasn't been anything in that PM since Day 1.

I think Mark's fishing for info was suspicious. I also think it's interesting that he was the first person to put a second vote on someone Day 1. However, I'm surprised that he got three votes in a row relatively quickly. I'll hold onto my vote for now so we don't decide on the lynch too early and so Mark gets a chance to respond. However, if no better target presents itself, I'd be fine with lynching him.

Also, I'd be interested in hearing from Meta what the plan to help find the Returned that he shared with Mark was.

Vote Tally:
Mark (3?): Meta, Magestar?, Lopen
Magestar (1): Araris
Ecthelion (1): Conq
Araris (1): PK
Frozen Mint (1?): Magestar?

@Magestar You didn't retract your vote from Frozen Mint. I'm not sure how Elbereth will count this, but many GMs just count the first red vote that isn't later retracted in green.

On 8/23/2016 at 10:59 PM, Araris Valerian said:

If we didn't have an inactivity filter, I would jump at those players, but we do, so hopefully we can get a bit more discussion this cycle.

There’s an inactivity filter? I don’t remember one being mentioned.

7 hours ago, Magestar said:

Oh.  I edit'd out those reasons a bit before you posted.  'Cause paranoia.  Sorry.

You shouldn’t be editing content out of your posts. It’s not fair to the players who miss seeing what you said before, and it just smacks of Ruin .

8 minutes ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

@luckat, I'm paying attention. This is my first game so I'm still trying to figure out how this all works.

Thanks for responding. Good luck figuring it out.  But did you hide your post? Because you aren't supposed to do that, and if you don't have a post in the thread no one will be able to tell if you're paying attention.

15 minutes ago, Magestar said:

I'm going to be entering the breath lottery every night until I can get a lifeless or two.  I think I can have two.  I hope so.  I see no reason not to enter the lottery every night until you can perform the action limit.  So, yeah.

Also, I think it will be more important for the village to get lifeless and straw men then to get Rabbits.  We need to survive, we have a day lynch, and once we have a few lifeless, some of us should save to get Rabbits.  Actually, a few should start saving right away, and anyone who has lifeless should protect them.

Most of this does not work without cooperation, and a good deal of knowledge.  Unfortunately, it appears to be very difficult to find out who is who in this particular game.

It wouldn't hurt to use your second action to store a Breath in Awakened Clothing if you have more than one Breath and retrieve it when you have enough Breath to make something more useful. Then at least if the Returned steal your Breath, they won't get as much, and you'll have the Clothing for in case it's ever useful. I agree that Strawmen and Lifeless are most important for the village. And remember, if anyone wants to make a Lifeless Rabbit, they can put their initial Breath in a Lifeless or Strawman to use until they have enough total Breath for the Rabbit, and then retrieve the Breath from the old object, so saving up Breath for later isn't necessary.

First, there’s five players who haven’t posted at all since the game started, which is a rather large number. @Assassin in Burgundy @Master Elodin @Daniyah @DeathClutch19 @Dalinar Kholin Please post so we at least know you’re paying attention to the game, and make sure you’re sending in actions. Also, try to read through the thread and give us your thoughts and suspicions. I know it can be daunting to figure out how these games work, but even a brief post would be helpful. Hopefully at least the ones who have been on the Shard will notice this. However, Dalinar Kholin hasn’t been on since before the game started, and Deathclutch hasn’t been on since just after N0 started. Hopefully they’ll get on.

Second, I saw no vote manipulation in the lynch, for what it's worth.

Third, I want to draw attention back to what I said during the day about actions and using Breath since it’s night now, when it’s relevant. If anyone has anything to add on the topic, feel free to say it.

On 8/22/2016 at 6:35 AM, The Young Bard said:

EDIT: In regards to what Luckat said before me, I strongly disagree with the Awakened Rope in particular. If a Returned is Roleblocked, we know because it will not be announced in the thread that someone had their Breath stolen. Then, we can suddenly reduce the number of people who could have made the action down to about 2 or 3, which is extremely valuable information, particularly if one of them is under suspicion already, then we suddenly have found ourselves an Eliminator.

While an Awakened Rope does have the potential to block an attack, as Mark said, that is a pretty small chance, especially early on, and there is a high chance of disadvantaging the village by blocking Lifeless, Strawmen, Lottery entries, and Breath storage/retrieval. Also, there are many possible reasons for no Breath theft to be in the writeup other than an Awakened Rope. If Breath stealing is blocked by a Lifeless, it doesn’t appear in the writeup at all (I checked with Elbereth). The owner of the Lifeless is informed that they stopped an attack, but unless we’re sure they’ll come forward, we can’t rule a Lifeless out if there is no Breath stolen. If the target was Drab at the beginning of the night and dies to the assassins, the Breath stealing doesn’t take place in the first place (although it’s not likely the Returned will try to steal Breath from someone already Drab). It is possible for the Returned to forget to send in an order due to miscommunication. And it is also possible for the Returned to purposefully neglect to steal Breath if they would rather use their actions on other things or they hope to trick the village into thinking someone successfully blocked the thief with an Awakened Rope.

A villager might be able to put an Awakened Rope to good use, especially later on when suspicions are more solid and the chance of hitting the Breath thief is higher, so I wouldn’t say villagers should ignore the possibility of using one altogether or immediately lynch anyone who has one. However, an Awakened Rope in the hands of the Returned would be particularly dangerous and village uses of a Rope are more risky than uses of other objects, so it would be good to look closely at anyone who uses an Awakened Rope, especially if they could have made something else instead.

Anyway, I think it’s interesting you chose that to comment on in particular out of everything I said. It’s almost as if you want anyone who uses a Rope to look less suspicious or you want more random village roleblocks.

16 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Hey, sorry for not getting up that Breath advice I was gonna try to do last night. Was too tired to think clearly enough to be of any help. Anyways, looks like luckat basically already gave some and like usual, I think I agree with pretty much everything she said! I especially liked the suggestion of making and retrieving Breath from Awakened objects as a way to protect yourself(if I'm thinking about this right at least ).

Thanks. Yeah, that was the idea for retrieving Breath. However, there is a tradeoff between using actions to store and withdraw Breath and actually using items and entering the Lottery. I’d be interested in anything else you have to add.

I think the problems with Bard’s plan have already been laid out pretty well, so I’ll move on.

There are benefits to someone giving their Breath to whoever lost it: it keeps the Returned from being able to choose who dies, it potentially gives us someone to trust, and it decreases the chance of a Potential Returned joining the Returned. However, as others have said the risk of a WGG or a fake claim (if the actual target is inactive or dies by Rabbit) is significant if the Returned think there is a good chance whoever loses their Breath will be saved--there isn’t even the normal drawback of wasting a kill for them if the kill is effectively moved to whoever gives up their Breath. Also, giving up Breath isn’t something we should expect of anyone. Given the risk of death, it should be entirely voluntary.

As Meta said, whoever is lynched cannot give their Breath away because the lynch comes before giving away Breath. Maybe a potential lynchee could offer to give away their Breath if all the votes are removed in order to keep the Breaths in play and save whoever lost their Breath. If there are no votes at all, no one dies. No one would be able to force a lynch in secret. However, it might take more coordination to pull off than is usually seen in lynches here. It could be a good option for whoever would be lynched otherwise to ask for, but it isn’t something we should be aiming for going into the lynch.

I figured I would post some thoughts about actions and mechanics, even though some of it is probably more relevant for night. Any of these might be good for discussion since there hasn't been much discussion aside from Bard's plan.

First, there is no reason not to enter the Lottery if you have an action free. The more villagers in the Lottery, the fewer Breaths the Returned will get from it.

Second, any Breath that is in an Awakened object is Breath that the Returned can’t steal. In addition, Breath stealing is before retrieving Breath from Awakened objects, so retrieving Breath prevents death by Assassin the next night even though it doesn’t stop the initial loss of Breath. For these reasons, I think making use of Breath often and changing what you have Awakened are good ideas if you’re not sure what else to do. However, remember not to make yourself Drab by Awakening objects.

Third, I think it is a good idea for whoever has their Breath stolen to come forward early each day. That gives us useful information to work from that the Returned already have.

Finally, I’ll go through the possible things to Awaken:

• 4-Breath Strawman - Discover how much Breath someone has. This is useful for information gathering and checking. Comparing Breath count to claims is more useful than basing suspicions on raw Breath count.
• 6-Breath Strawman - Discover people’s items. Useful for gathering information and checking claims. Also can be used to find suspicious items (possibly Lifeless Rabbits and Awakened Ropes)
• 8-Breath Strawman - Discover actions. Useful for information gathering, although the fact that it only discovers one of the target's two actions limits its usefulness. It might catch someone using a suspicious action, or even a kill, but it could also catch the less suspicious action the target took.
• Awakened Rope - Roleblock. More likely to hit a villager than a Returned, especially early on. It might stop a Returned attack. It’s something that would be more useful for the Returned since they can coordinate with one another, but it could be useful for village coordination.
• Lifeless - Protects from a kill or Breath stealing. This is very beneficial for the village.
• Awakened Clothing - Blocks a vote. Vote manipulation usually isn’t very helpful early on, especially since it is so visible. Later on, it could be useful to solidify the lynch or counter Returned vote manipulation.
• Lifeless Rabbit - Kills. Villagers should avoid using this early on. A Lifeless Rabbit could be useful when suspicions are firmer, but there’s probably better things to do with Breath. I expect the Returned to make a Lifeless Rabbit if they can. If there’s a string of Rabbit kills, we’ll want to find the culprit.

15 hours ago, Erunion said:

Pet Peeve: like massive pet peeve. And ridiculous. 

 

People calling Lego, Legos. 

It's an adjective (Lego bricks) originally, that's morphed into an uncounted noun (so the plural and the singular are the same, no s Like a sheep and sheep. Or water, or sand). 

Huh. I have never heard someone use "Lego" as an uncountable noun. I always hear people refer to an individual Lego brick as "a Lego" and multiple bricks as "Legos." So I decided to look it up. The most useful thing I found is here.

Quote

The plural form Legos is chiefly American. Other regions tend to use the uncountable form, or to speak of Lego bricks and Lego sets.

So being annoyed with "Legos" is kind of like being annoyed with "math" instead of "maths" or "honor" instead of "honour."

I’ll join as Lularah. (That sounds somewhat Nalthian, right?) I’m going for the opposite end of the player list from usual.

I’ll probably have some questions about the rules … soonish.

2 hours ago, Elenion said:

Funny enough, I can see the ball and the last.fm, just not the text. The text only shows up as sig.svg.

Same here, and I'm using Google Chrome. However, when I use Safari the message about what thread I'm in shows up like it's supposed to. I'm using a Mac, in case it matters. (Also, I hadn't realized until now that guests could no longer view sigs.)

Also, @Mestiv Elenion already mentioned their browser (Google Chrome) in their earlier post. It might have something to do with Chrome.

The new site looks great. Mobile is so much better. I like the new features. The messenger looks much more modern. The stream options are nice. Thanks for all the effort that went into this! There are a few things I wanted to mention though.

Problems

There's something that seems a bit like a glitch. If I go to a thread, then navigate to a different page in that thread, then hit the back button in my browser, I stay on the second page instead of going back to the page I was on before. This happens both on my laptop and my phone.

There's a problem where selection lists like the ones for content streams or for folders in PMs show up behind the blue bar at the top.

When looking at the options for activity streams, I couldn't find any link to get back to a stream I saved later if I didn't immediately make it my default. Also, when I figured out I could get back by changing the url, I noticed I could access the other user-created streams. Is that on purpose? Because it seems odd that you can't save those settings without making them sort of public. Then again, maybe that's good because it means I can make a personalized stream that I can access even from devices I'm not logged in on as long as I don't use options that require a user to view (like "unread").

Aesthetic Issues

The header doesn't look very good at the size I keep my browser window. The menu just plain looks like it's in the wrong place since the entire "create" blends in with the white sun, and it would actually be entirely outside the sun if it was moved to the top. Also, the logo looks off center and gets too close to the edge of the sun on the right. I've attached the image to show what it looks like.

I know this is because I keep my browser at quite a bit less than full screen, so it might not affect too many people, but there is a large range of desktop-sized windows where the placement of the menu blends with the sun. Even when I go to full screen I think having the menu in the middle of a large header instead of at the top looks weird. When the announcements are added (they weren't there yet when I took the screenshot), the combination of header and announcements takes up nearly the full screen, which is pretty bulky. It all even takes up well over half the screen when I go fullscreen. I think I preferred having the announcements in a black bar at the top of the header.

This probably isn't very important, but on the bottom of the news page there isn't any whitespace below the page navigation, which looks strange with the modern tons-of-whitespace design. In comparison, there is some whitespace at the bottom of the Shardcast page. Also, "Contact Us" and "Community Software..." at the bottom is very dark and hard to see. I'm not sure if that is on purpose though. (See relevant image in spoiler below.)

I think it's kind of strange that subforums with unread posts are marked with yellow, but when entering the subforums the threads with unread posts are marked with bolded text and blue dots while it is pinned threads that are instead marked with yellow. That seems a bit inconsistent.

Some of the staff title colors look bad on the default cover photo background when you hover over their names. Global Moderators in particular. That's probably best solved by them picking cover photos, although finding something that looks good with both the white username and darker title might be hard.

The round profile pictures look good for some (like mine), but for others it is obvious the pictures were designed as a rectangle. Even the default profile picture has a bit of the bottom corner of the shard cut off when trimmed to a circle.

Changes I don't like

It lists the number of posts in each topic, but not the number of threads anymore. I'd have thought the number of threads would be more relevant if just one of those were shown, but both would be preferable.

I miss the list of users on in the last 24 hours at the bottom. That was really nice for checking how recently users had been on. I also miss the "Who's Online" list stating how recently it is checking (15 minutes), and I think it is weird that section lists everyone who has been on in the last 25 minutes when it still removes the green dot that means they are logged in after 15 minutes. Also, it looks like the list of who is browsing each thread only lists members and doesn't mention if any guests are viewing now.

This might be more of a personal preference, but I really dislike posts saying how recently they were made instead of having a date and time stamp. For one thing, it gives the time since the page last loaded, which means I can only guess how long ago something was actually posted if I wait a bit after opening the page to read it or if reading the entire page takes a while, and if I reload it can be harder to tell what's new and what was already there. Also, if I "show new replies" in a thread, it shows the times between when they were posted and when I loaded them, but the times for previous posts are still shown as what they were when I originally loaded the page, which is confusing. Also, anything posted in the hours ago range doesn't give minutes, so context about the length of time between nearby posts or edits is lost. Similarly, posts from about a week or more ago only give the date, not the time. Also, figuring out the length of time between recent days of the week isn't as intuitive as between numbered dates. I know it's possible to see the date and time of a post by hovering my cursor over when it was posted, but that doesn't work on a phone and it doesn't work on quotes and it's annoying to have to do that for something I prefer to be able to see at a glance.

Is there a way for a user to remove or collapse any of the sidebars on the front page or the announcements at the top of each page?

Didn't there used to be a link directly to the comments from "Recent News" in addition to the link to the article?

I miss seeing people's statuses when I hover over their name.

I kind of miss the staff online sidebar, although that information is easy enough to figure out by looking at Who's Online.

Just to let people know, we have Group PMs set up for figuring out who's running which games and when. We do try to keep on top of it. It's been a bit hectic at times, especially with the schedule change, but we've always done our best to make sure we keep to the schedule.

 

So don't worry about who's running what when. We've got that covered. Just prepare yourself for the next round, cause we'll always make sure that there's one available for everyone!

I appreciate that you try to keep on top what games are coming up. It is nice that the games typically start promptly and that the GM list is updated often.

However, the current list really doesn’t give a good idea of what is coming without a lot of supplemental information about who is active in SE. It is frustrating that it is necessary to be part of a hidden PM to have an accurate idea of what games are coming, especially when there is a public list that is supposed to give that information. I almost wonder what the point of having such a list in public is if all the useful, relevant information isn’t available to average players and apparently shouldn’t concern them.

Would it be possible to separate out the people who are unlikely to be ready to GM soon from the main GM list? They can have their position (probably at the top) back when they return, or be placed a few spots down if they’d prefer to work out the details of their game or get back into the community before they GM. Until then, they wouldn’t be taking up space at the top of the list and misleading anyone who looks at it. It would be less confusing if an occasional person jumped to the top instead of a whole bunch of people always passing. I think just that would go a long way toward making the transition between games smoother.

Also, I think it would be good to have some kind of “on deck” state for the next game of each type where it’s decided for sure (barring extreme circumstances) what the next game will be further in advance (like when the game before it starts). Then, for example, Hael wouldn’t be waiting until the day before his game’s signups start for Phat to pass, and GMs would have time when they know their game is coming next to prepare to run their game.

I just think it would be good if the list everyone can see accurately showed what the people who can see it care about (what games they can look forward to and about when--especially what’s next--and possibly how many games will probably be run before theirs if they want to be added to the list) instead of some kind of nebulous signup order with a bunch of permapasses at the top.

There's 4 living, and most of them are indicated to have started with Pewter rather than having stored it. Yes, people with two stores were indicated. Unfortunately, I do not think C2 or C3 actions are very well accounted for in what he gave me, so it isn't very good for showing who is storing Pewter. I do not plan to let the info die with me.

Edit: Green flowers

At the end of last cycle, Mark requested that I post his list of who claimed to have Pewter if he died. However, I don’t know why he wanted me to post that list and I’m not 100% sure that it is the best idea since it would give the eliminators useful information. While we all know he was good, that doesn’t necessarily mean all his decisions are best, and he seemed rushed when he mentioned it. So I’m going to leave the decision to all of you. Knowing that I have this information, should I share it publicly?

I’m really sorry about not posting earlier this cycle.
 
Vote Tally:
Elodin (5): Deathclutch, Bugsy, yafeshan, Mark, Burnt
luckat (1): Elodin

There’s already 5 votes on Elodin, which is enough to lynch him unless everyone is storing bronze. Here’s the main arguments against him: he was storing Pewter (which is more beneficial for eliminators), Maill died instead of Mark after expressing suspicions of him, and he left out important information when talking to Mark. Elodin’s main defense has been that an eliminator wouldn’t pull such obviously eliminator moves as publicly storing Pewter or killing someone who suspected him. While that is something to take into consideration, the fact that Elodin has been using that defense from the moment he mentioned storing Pewter makes me look askance at it. If he thinks it is as good a defense as he seems to, I’m reluctant to take it as much of a defense.

In addition to the above, Elodin’s vote on Strawman after Strawman posted seemed like bandwagoning. Also, Elodin seems to care more about surviving than helping find eliminators, which feels more like an eliminator desire than a village one.

On the other hand, this lynch seems to be going through without opposition. That is often a hint that the eliminators are fine with the lynch selection. If Elodin is an eliminator, his fellows haven’t put forth effort to save him. It’s possible they think defending him isn’t worth it, but it’s also possible we’re wrong.

Having said that, it is way too late to reasonably change the direction of the lynch. Since there has been a lot of discussion centered around Elodin, I think learning his alignment will be very beneficial. I’m not certain enough of him to add to the lynch train, and the lynch looks sure enough that I don’t have to anyway.

As for other suspicions, I somewhat suspect Bugsy and yafeshan for following others’ votes (on Strawman last cycle and Elodin this cycle) without giving strong reasons of their own. I think I somewhat trust Phatt for promoting discussion the first two cycles.
 

Elodin is definitely the one I'm currently most suspicious of but he already has 4? votes,.
hm. So far none of our lynchs have gained us any info because they were merely left behind. I feel like we could at least learn something by lynching Elodin.
I know last minute votes are typically frowned on, but give me some slack-I only recently woke up....
Elodin (if you are good, then I'm sorry.

 
Last minute votes that change the results are frowned on. Last minute additions to already solid lynches aren't exactly encouraged, but they aren't frowned on either.

This game is difficult to understand and I am new. I just wanted to hear peoples opinions first few cycles. I am reporting to companion every cycle.

Okay. Since you're new, it's understandable for it to take you a while to figure out what to do. I'm sorry if it feels like I'm harassing you. It's just that with about half the players barely saying anything, it gets hard to form any opinions. There's been a problem with inactivity in some games, and I don't want this one to get to the point where none of the remaining living innocents say anything. If you are talking to the Companion every cycle, then you are probably doing fine for now.

I do suggest you try to make a game-centered post before too long. Doing that will give you more helpful experience than just listening to others, especially when there's not a lot being said. I'd say it might help to do one of these things:

1) Pick someone who has posted a few times. Read each of their posts. Consider whether is sounds more like they are trying to help find the eliminators or whether they are trying to make us fail while pretending to help. Post whether you think they are suspicious and why. If you think they are suspicious, add a vote.

2) Pick a topic that has been discussed (such as using Pewter or tapping Iron or lynching a particular person). Read others' arguments on that topic. Decide which you agree with more. Post what you think about the topic and your reasoning.

If you do things like these, you might be able to get into the game more easily and you will form connections with other players that make it easier for others to read you.

Luckat, I haven't actually read day two yet, and I've only skimmed day one. But I ctrl+F'd Joe, and it popped up. As i said when I signed up, I'm dealing with a massive load of schoolwork. I'll be able to actively participate in the game starting cycle 3.

Thank you for responding Joe. I hope your schoolwork goes well and that you are able to be active soon.

This is exactly the kind of reply I want from people who are busy. "I'm busy because of X and I should be able to be active when Y." Then we have something to hold them to and we don't have to constantly question whether they forgot about the game or are lurking or what.

What would I reply with? A concrete statement saying whether or not I fell? I don't want to do that, because I want to leave the eliminators guessing whether they can attack me or not.

After that, I hadn't been on to see actual suspicions and votes on me by Mark. So here's my response.

Sorry, your right that there wasn't really anything for you to say there. 

But that's like saying that a village kill role shouldn't ever make autonomous decisions. Also, I never said that there wouldn't be discussion, but pewter is a good thing for the village to have as it is like another lynch when used responsibly. Lastly, leaving me behind is killing me, so at least wait until more people agree with you.

If you are about to be left behind, I think you can change your action. Besides, if someone wants to vote for you, I wouldn't think saying that it could become a kill instead of just leaving you behind would stop them.

Anyway, everyone please remember to send in whatever action you are taking. I still think Tin and Bronze and maybe Gold are the most useful, although if you store Bronze, make sure not to mess with the votes. Also, tell Mark what you are doing if you feel comfortable with that.

Vote Tally:

Strawman (2): Lopen, Bugsy

Elodin (1): Maill

Phatt (1): PK

PK (0): Phatt, Mark

Stink (0): luckat

[whatever blue text command is] Yeah I'm still I'll and basically sleeping all the time sorry guys. [whatever stops blue text]

Thanks for responding Stink. Sorry you're ill.  Hope you feel better soon.

Waiting for people's discussions to vote this cycle.

If everyone thinks like that, there won't be any discussions for anyone to build votes on. It would be really good to hear something significant form you, like how suspicious you are of the people with votes already on them or what you think good uses of powers are or if you have any information you can share.

First - he votes for Kyne for RP reasons. Sure, a general action that could have been done by anyone. But, when there was a tie in votes, he is saved Lopen.

Not that I'm trying to defend him, but PK's reason for voting Kyne was inactivity, not RP, and Lopen was saving himself during the tie. Saving PK was a side effect, and it's not surprising Lopen picked to vote for the inactive.

However, the lack of a reply from PK, and even the lack of a post while we've discussed him, is fishier.

Also, both Burnt and Joe are nearing the two cycle mark where they will die if they don't post or PM. Now, if they have PMed they aren't in danger, but if they've had time for a PM they should have had time to drop by the thread.

I'm having a hard time getting real suspicions. I'm also reluctant to lynch anyone who is active since there are several inactives and I don't want it to get the the point where everyone alive is inactive or nearly so. But lynching inactives doesn't actually help.

My reasoning was that he almost fell but didn't, because he was storing iron.

I read it as him falling, and catching the rock saved him from falling to his death. I also got the impression that the roleblock went through due to him saying "Just give me a couple of days to recover" in the writeup, and I figure PK wouldn't have mentioned the fall the way he did in his post if he didn't actually fall.

For what it's worth, I asked the GMs about whether falls blocked by storing Iron or tapping Steel would be revealed, and Elbereth gave me a PAFO. I got the impression that that was because she hadn't decided yet, like it hadn't come up, but I could be wrong.

I’m going to put my vote on Stink for now. He has been unusually quiet for him. His only post was stating that he didn’t want to give info to the companions. Usually he posts more. I don’t know for sure if that is indicative of him being an eliminator, but it might be.

I’d also like to hear more from Trelagist and Macen, since you both said you thought you would be more active but haven’t followed up yet. Also, yafeshan, Burnt, and Joe, if you could stop by the thread and say if you have any thoughts on the game, that would be great. It’s hard to come up with suspicions when so many people haven’t posted anything related to the game. I know most of you are busy, but it would be nice to know if you are paying any attention to the game.

Also, I’d appreciate it if people who have RL reasons for being busy state so in blue text just as a guarantee that you are being honest.

Vote Tally:

Strawman (2): Lopen, Bugsy

Elodin (1): Maill

Stink (1): luckat

PK (0): Phatt

It's interesting that the eliminators chose to kill Rae since it doesn't put them any closer to their win condition. We might be able to get an idea of who would try that strategy since it isn't just the normal random-looking C1 kill. Maybe their choice of Rae over Mark also says something about them. I don't really know what to make of it though. We might not be able to use Mark to coordinate anything if the eliminators decide to kill him too, so we should make sure to focus on other ways of finding eliminators.

Looking back, I realized that the GMs didn't actually say whether Falls would be in the writeups (and, if so, whether it would be shown if the roleblock is for 1 cycle or 2). Since PK fell in the writeup, if PK actually did Fall that indicates they will be, even if they aren't in the end-of-writeup summary. I am also confused about where the idea that PK was storing Iron came from. Storing Iron protects from falls, so if he fell, he can't have been storing Iron.

I also disagree with Phatt that landslides benefit the traitors the most. Landslides split the group into two parts--equal parts for purposeful ones. By the time causing a landslide is actually possible, splitting the group up will divide up the group similarly to in LG17 so any kill will only have a few suspects. If the eliminators get to choose the landslide, they can probably do it favorably for themselves, but if an innocent player gets to choose it, it can really limit the eliminators' options. I'm not sure that taking 5 actions to store all that iron is worth it, but storing iron isn't an obviously eliminator move.

As for Bugsy's comment about a landslide this turn, I'd expect a landslide to be mentioned in the turn summary if it happened and for the people caught in it to be listed since we aren't allowed to use actions or PM the people in a landslide, and we wouldn't be able to follow the no PM rule if we didn't know who was in the landslide. Also, the comment you picked out sounds more like a hint that landslides can happen during the game than a mention of one actually happening.

Also, there's a few people who haven't posted and several who only made a brief post. There needs to be more discussion happening for us to find eliminators.

In the rules, it says two or fewer.

Here’s a vote tally:

Lopen (1): Strawman
PK (1): Phatt
Kynedath (1): PK

There is a 3-way tie right now, so a random one of these three is going to be left behind. I don’t really have any suspicions one way or the other, although it might be better if Kynedath is left behind over the other two since he hasn’t posted at all or given an explanation.

Also, there’s about 20 minutes left. Everyone, remember to send in whatever action you are planning to do. Also, I hope people have contacted Mark and Rae.

Okay, now that I think I have a decent grasp of the rules, I’ll try to put down some of my thoughts. This first bit is about each of the powers, kind of building on what Phatt said earlier.

Tapping Iron could be useful for the village because it would allow someone to split us into two groups, so if the eliminators make a kill they narrow themselves down more. I’m not sure if it would be worth it though since it would take so many cycles to store enough for a landslide--cycles that could be spent using other powers since storing Iron is now active, although also cycles where you are protected from a fall or landslide. Thoughts?

Storing steel doesn’t have a drawback as long as you aren’t up for a two-vote lynch ( as long as plenty of people vote). Tapping steel really isn’t much better than storing Iron, so unless you are really worried about getting left behind later on, you might as well store Iron instead.

Using Pewter has been discussed a bit. I think villagers shouldn’t attack with Pewter unless they have very strong suspicions, and it isn’t best to use early on when the chances of hitting a villager are too high. I also want to remind people that in this game there is an opportunity cost to using Pewter instead of other powers, and a single charge of Pewter only injures. It would take a second charge or two people using Pewter to actually kill someone (something eliminators are better-equipped to do).

Tin is very useful because it is the only protective ability. True, it only self-targets. But if the eliminators hit a few people while they are tapping Tin, we’ll have more time to catch them. Risking dying instead of getting injured when storing isn’t that big a deal unless people are using Pewter.

I’m wondering if it would be a good idea for some people to tap Brass earlier than the third cycle. It might be good for us to not all be powerless the same cycle. Then again, since turns when you fall don’t count for the one in three turns where you need to tap Brass (this is something I clarified with the GM), some people might naturally get on a different cycle from falls.

Zinc is interesting in that you are basically sacrificing two actions (one for storing, one for tapping) for an extra one in the future. It might be worth it for the flexibility to use multiple actions when needed or the ability to use more than one power at once if there are any useful combinations. However, I don’t think it is that useful, especially when considering that you have to give up most communication for a cycle to store it.

Bronze is the only power that can be used for information gathering. I think it would be very useful for checking whether people are doing what they say they are if we want to coordinate anything. Storing it does cost the ability to vote for the turn, which isn’t a great thing to lose, especially later on. That does provide a nice check that someone who says they are storing bronze is doing what they say they are, but it could also make it easier for the eliminators to find out who has the most information. I think it would be great if some people primarily used bronze as long as it’s not everyone.

It might be good for everyone to store a charge or two of Gold early on so they can heal themselves if they become injured. However, since the only ways to get injured are to be attacked with Pewter (which can be doubled up to cause a kill instead) or to tap Iron, it might not be super helpful.

Regarding falls, it turns out the roleblock now happens the cycle after you fall (this is another clarification I got). With this, I don’t actually think announcing falls to the thread is a good idea. That just tells the eliminators who can’t use an action, which means there is no way for them to be protected since the only protection is self-protection with Tin. It might be good to spread the information somewhere, like to the Companions or someone you trust, but it isn’t something everyone needs to know.

The Companions could be very useful for coordinating actions and sharing information if they are willing. However, the more we depend on them, the more likely it is for the eliminators to decide killing them is worth it. I mean, they probably won’t kill them since it is a waste of time to kill people they don’t need to for their win condition, but we shouldn’t make a strategy that depends too much on the Companions remaining alive. I do think everyone should at least have a PM with each of the Companions to lay the groundwork for potential coordination. If we do it right, the Companions could keep track of actions and catch people in lies or find the possible places the eliminator kill could be coming from. Potential ideas for coordination is something I think we should discuss in the thread.


My main takeaways at this point are that Tin and Bronze are probably the most useful powers for the village, and we should discuss how we plan to use the Companions’ confirmed position.

I'll join as Lucy. Sorry about waiting for the last minute to sign up. I doubt I'll have time for RP, so you can do what you want with my character.

Sure, the description says theories. In practice, however, it is used for all Cosmere discussion, including questions, information collection, cross-world fights, and power applications. Also, the line between a theory and a discussion can be thin. Theories often prompt discussion. Discussion can be founded on an observation that isn't a full-blown theory, and that discussion can in turn cultivate new theories. Calling it "Cosmere Theories" emphasizes the more serious tone usually found there.

The General Brandon Discussion is sometimes a better place for things that are less serious or that include non-Cosmere books, but usually any discussion about the Cosmere, especially if it involves spoilers, belongs in Cosmere Theories.

It sounds like you’re looking for Cosmere Theories. It’s for all Cosmere discussion (with the exception of unpublished works), not just theories. Fair warning, it’s full of untagged Cosmere spoilers.

The illustrations in Brandon's books are on his website. The broadsheet from The Bands of Mourning can be found here (I assume that's the one you're talking about).