Through the Living Heir

Yeah, I agree that I underestimated how difficult that would be to do. Perhaps an iron-zinc twinborn could do it, but otherwise it’s pretty much impossible in era 2. Maybe? It’s been a bit since I reread era 2. That would have been intentional then. Good idea. A Lurcher and a Coinshot could work as well. I like this metaphor. It makes sense. That being said, I’ve rushed someone with a water gun before with a wet sponge, and soaked them without being hit, so a knife is a little more useful than people realize. That’s a good idea. If you have something like a stone wall, with crenellations, you could throw or slingshot a coin over it and then rappel up. Yeah, me too. I also came up with the idea for a Lurcher martial art where the practitioners pull themselves towards their opponents and their opponents towards themselves using locking cuffs they can lock onto them. Maybe even a midair boxing match with a metal framework around it, allowing contestants to push or pull around, and if they leave the frame they lose.

Tondon sees him, but stays back. He Pulls a metal object other than the axe, and lessens his storing, so that people can see him if he’s pointed out, but won’t pay attention to him otherwise. He puts a finger to his lips, puts a hand to his neck, makes an X, points at Astra, does a thumbs up, then beckons you over.

Tondon is magically forcing people to ignore him, so Quelkin can’t throw rocks at him. Tondon doesn’t see him yet, though. He does see a rock fall from the sky though. “Huh. Wonder where those came from.”

Thanks for the responses everyone! There’ve been some really great points made so far, on both sides of the debate. I’ll go through the responses and respond to points that I have something to add to. If I don’t respond to a point you made, it means I agree and don’t have anything to say about it, not that I’m making a straw man argument. The same does apply to Coinshots, although not if they’re using coins. I think Wax jumped off a car one time and it broke. Both these points elaborate quite well on some of my thoughts. Coinshots can push on anchors in the other direction to slow down, which would be the environment that the Lurcher would need to fly at all. Also, a Lurcher could pull an anchor out from under the Coinshot, which could result in a painful fall, whereas a Lurcher’s anchors are generally better anchored (but also significantly more scarce). I don’t think we have a term for off center pulls, but you have just given me an idea. Let’s see if the cosmere hunger games people will let me get a steel spike. I completely agree, and I did note the first part in my opening paragraph, but looking back at it, it’s kinda lost in some other thoughts. The horseshoe trick, every fight scene with a Mistborn, these two powers, out of every push-pull group, complement each other the most. Good point. I didn’t really consider how quickly shields or armor break when shot repeatedly. Maybe unsealed goldminds would help? Or something like a tank that the Lurcher would stay inside? I guess there’s a reason that we haven’t seen any Lurchers in era 2 combat, especially with nicrosil allomancy being a thing. If steel can kill with a paperclip, iron can as well, the paperclip merely has to be on the other side of the target. I don’t think either can perform an assassination like this, actually. You’d need a sharper object, as the force will be equaled by the force applied to the assassin. You’d need a much sharper object. If a guard of the target has a knife, either misting could frame them by moving it, they’d just need to be on opposite sides. I think a Lurcher would be suspected less in this case, but both ways are viable. Both are true. I’d been researching the Industrial Revolution for school, so I may have been forgetting that steel production has improved a whole lot since then. (Did you know that Charles Bessemer didn’t invent the Bessemer Process, he just brought it the Europe and named it after himself?) Flight wise, in a random field, steel definitely works better, but in a city they’re more equal, and climbing a tall metal tower in the middle of nowhere is easier for iron than steel. (Not a lot of tall metal towers in the middle of nowhere that need climbing, though) As stated above, I agree with this point. Steel is much better in a field, iron is equal or better in an environment such as a city with metal everywhere. (Spider-Man has a similar problem in his first movie, I believe) My idea there was to have a Lurcher who can use throwing knives. They’d start by attacking conventionally, but as the battle went on there would be more knives laying around that the opponent would have to avoid. If they ran out of knives to throw, they could pull some back, lightly, then catch and rethrow them. I agree, this is a good point. I’d forgotten how much damage a bullet can do to shields or armor (I blame Marvel movies), and thus kinda assumed that all the bullets could be blocked. I’d attempted to articulate an idea in which a Lurcher pulls lightly on a bullet head for someone else, pivoting it around themself due to it maintaining momentum, then stopping, which would send the bullet back at the attacker, although likely slower. That’s a valid opinion. I’m glad I helped with the first part, and I respect the second part, even if I disagree. I’m aware that one more person has responded, but I’m out of time to post and will thus respond to you later, @therunner.

Tondon (me) and Mark (@The Stormfather) are also in the clearing, near Astra (@Lotus Blossom). Astra and Mark are talking, and Tondon is storing Connection so he isn’t noticed. Does Quelkin have any metal objects on him?

Hi everybody! (or at least somebody) I've been wanting to make this thread for a while, and finally gotten around to it. (I procrastinated posting on the Shard by looking at the Shard. Good job me.) As the title states, I believe that iron allomancy is a better power than steel allomancy, and want to try to convince people of that, or have other people convince me that I'm wrong. The two powers together are definitely more powerful, and mentioning power combos is ok, but compounding doesn't work as an argument, as the ability to push vs. pull metal is what I'm convinced of. Steel compounding is definitely stronger than iron compounding. My initial arguments: Generally, an ordinary human has the ability to launch projectiles, and this is augmented further with firearms, but it is quite difficult to pull objects to yourself from far away. This means that, in general, iron allomancy opens up more possibilities than steel does. Iron can be used offensively similar to steel, but also has other combat capabilities. There is a fight scene in Mistborn 1 when Kelsier repeatedly pulls a metal paperweight toward himself, then steps aside, sending it past him and into his opponents. Although Kelsier has access to pewter, I think this trick could be replicated with normal reflexes and practice. A skilled Lurcher could potentially curve trajectories of flying metal objects, enabling attacks and attack redirection from more angles. This may require the use of zinc feruchemy or atium allomancy, however. Additionally, Lurchers can pull small metal objects behind their opponents toward themselves to attack, and could even set up a battlefield ahead of time or throw knives, then pull them back if a shot lines up. This would force the opponent to divide their attention between thrown and Pulled knives, and also enable indefinite attacks as long as steel lasts. Lurchers in battle are generally used to deflect projectiles, redirecting them to shields. Although Coinshots can also deflect attacks, they lack the capability to reuse enemy projectiles, which Lurchers can do. I've found, from throwing and catching small objects, that it is much easier to catch a fast moving object that you caused the trajectory of (such as a tennis ball bounced off a wall) than a slow moving object that someone else caused to move (such as that same tennis ball tossed to me by my dad). This implies that Lurching some projectiles (such as throwing knives and possibly arrows, but not bullets) might make them easier to catch. Iron makes better use of resources and terrain than steel does. Objects to push or pull from are required for mobility for both, but steel lacks the ability to retrieve anchors, and thus would run out of coins to jump from. Although a Lurcher would require a surface to hook a portable anchor to, and would need to propel it to the destination, they could then retrieve it, allowing it to be reused and thus more elaborate, such as a clamp with an internal mechanism that locks when Pulled on, preventing it from coming free. A similar principle applies to weaponry. (For example, Wax lost his metal ball things pretty fast.) Coinshots are unable to scale isolated metal structures, and require several anchors to balance. Lurchers lack this problem, but do require an anchor to be where they're going, rather than where they start. Iron is more convenient for every day life. Being able to grab things from far away is such a useful power if you don't want to get up or you have your hands full. Iron is easier to come by. It is easier to manufacture and meet purity standards because it is a pure element (steel used to be very hard to make), it is softer and thus can be turned to shavings more easily (maybe even by using a file on a random object), and it is cheaper than steel. It does rust though, so it should be kept in oil or alcohol. That's all the reasons I have off the top of my head. Thanks for reading. Feel free to either agree or disagree, and to try to change my mind, or change the minds of those who are trying to change mine. I'll read the responses and write rebuttals to them, unless this thread blows up, in which case I'll try but probably not finish.

Also @The Stormfather. Tondon has been standing behind Mark the whole time, but the other participants only notice he’s there now (his metalmind is full). He appears slightly confused. “Huh. Hi, I’m Tondon. It’s nice to meet you,” he says, tapping half a metalmind of Connection then returning to filling and fading away. It should leave an impression on Mark though. You feel like you knew him very well, but you’ve immediately forgotten he was there. If he stops storing again Mark might find him trustworthy seeming. @Ancient Elantrian @SmilingPanda19 or maybe other GMs

“That’s me,” he replies in a similar whisper, “what do you need?” He taps a little more Connection, both to make Astra less likely to betray him (He hasn’t known her very long and lots of magic is by touch. One necroburst, and he’ll be impaled dozens of times.) and to leave more room so he doesn’t fill the metalmind all the way while sneaking around. Astra didn't stay back, but she didn't advance either. She just stood there, with crossed arms, and watched. "Pleasure to meet you." She smiled. "Astra Ay. And I know who you are." Tondon continues storing Connection, and observes, ready to intervene if something goes wrong. Astra can barely remember he’s there, but he slips her a knife, then stands so @The Stormfather is between it and him.

“Yeah, he’s just stuck here and a little desperate, just like the rest of us.” Tondon begins storing tons of Connection, and walks around the casino to the other side to @The Stormfather. You can see him, but he’s not important. You don’t have to actually pay attention to him. As Tondon gets there, he realizes that he doesn’t know what he’s going to do when he gets there.

“He’s from Scadrial too. He’s a Leecher. Woke me up in the middle of the night with his hand to my throat, and asked why he should spare me. I guess he wasn’t taking any chances, but I convinced him an alliance would be better. He’s actually a really nice guy.” Tondon watches the forest too, while trying to figure out whether Astra is flirting with him. Then, he hears something from the other side of the casino. “Do you hear that? I can store Connection and go over there.”

“I suppose you’re right. It seems I’m also a magnet for bad luck, though. I ended up in a nicrobursted time bubble, and go catapulted who-knows-how-far into the future, essentially broke. So now I’m here.” Tapping Connection is what causes him to share this in the first place, but also makes it relatable. As Astra creates the shields, Tondon picks one up. “Wow. This will be useful. How’d you do that?” Holding his shield in one hand and dropping then ironpulling one of his sickles into the other, like a yo-yo, he turns back to Astra. “Ok, what’s our plan? We should wait for Jaksyn, but other than that, I don’t know what we’re gonna do.”

Generally, the game is only on one planet. I don’t think we’ve done an elantris game yet… I think you’re probably fine, especially since the next game will be a little while from now. You might be able to find and read whatever book the next one is before it starts.

I have a meme! I’m too lazy to put the caption on the picture, so I’ll just write above it and hope it works.

I like to come up with shenanigans with the magic systems, then I share them here, because I don’t know many people IRL who read Sanderson books. I’ve also been playing in the Cosmere Hunger Games, which are pretty fun. You could join the next round; the section is at the very bottom of the forum pages, with the other role playing threads. (You could also join a different one) Reading and occasionally disproving other people’s theories is fun too. Each of the stormlight books has a different flashback character. I think Dalinar’s is book three. TenSoon’s plot, personality, and powers are all interesting to read about, as are Sazed’s. (That was a weird sentence structure, sorry) Feruchemy is probably the most practical power for everyday life, in my opinion. Spoilers for 17th Shard subculture.

“You held the glowy stuff in some crystals. These might work. Also, they’re pretty strong. If you don’t want them I’ll try to make some more weapons from them. Or maybe a shield.” “An alliance. I’ve been working with Jaksyn, over there…” he points behind him before realizing Jaksyn has gone inside the casino. (I think) “I can see metal objects in all directions and through things, and pull them to myself, as well as change how noticeable I am to others. I’d been using that on you, but only because I didn’t want you to kill me.” This seems very relatable. He’s a nice guy. Why would he be trying to trick you? “We can go look for other people to work with, but I’ll need something to block projectiles. I’m a little out of practice with catching arrows.” He goes over to a large pile of pink crystals on the ground and looks for on that might make a good shield. (@Edema Rue)

Tondon fought someone (unintellegus, or however you spell it), but he ran away. Now he’s talking to Astra, who’s played by lotus blossom. She wants to “set us free”. You should have the reward from Corin for killing someone. I’d advise going into the casino and collecting that. Metal is back in stock! You could have been there during the fight.

Ok. Tondon gets a duralumin bracer and a whole bunch of iron shavings. “It’s cold out there. Would you take half a vial worth of activated pink spore crystals for a warm coat?” Tondon doesn’t know what a Willshaper is (I do, but you can lie to him if you want). “I’m a twinborn. Iron and duralumin.” He suddenly becomes incredibly unremarkable, barely acknowledgeable at all, and says, “Are you trying to get more than one person out of this place alive? I don’t want to have to kill my friends.” He goes back to charismatic as he finishes the sentence, leaving Astra sure she is counted in the friends.

“A human… from Scadrial… uh… do you mean what can I do? I’ll tell you, but can you tell me what your powers are too? Or at least promise not to kill me immediately?” Tondon is a pretty average person it seems. He’s kinda tall, but I think Astra is from Roshar so he seems short to her. He’s got dark hair that’s a little curly. He seems pretty unremarkable. He’s got an average build. His jumpsuit sleeve has been cut off on one arm, and turned into a belt which contains some supplies. Not very important seeming. He has a piece of metal somewhere (I don’t know what it is), but that doesn’t seem very important. However, as he asks you to tell him your powers if he tells you his, you feel like that’s a pretty reasonable request, and that he’s a pretty trustworthy guy.

“I’m Tondon. It’s nice to meet you!” He shakes her hand, but also looks a bit jumpy.

“Great!” Tondon goes inside the casino. “Hi! I think you promised me a duraluminmind and a large amount of iron dust once you got ahold of it.”

“Never mind!” Tondon calls after him. “Good luck killing people who I don’t know!” He turns around, picks his stuff back up, and tries to turn so he can speak into his own ear, which doesn’t work very well. “Hi Corin. I’m feeling stronger, like my powers weren’t working so well and now they are. Does that mean you’ll have metal?” @Ancient Elantrian (I think? Maybe you’re the Gambler and Corin is @Edema Rue) @Lotus Blossom Tondon might see you, or you might see him. He’s excited about getting his powers back though, so he’ll probably ignore you unless you do something. @LightRinger

This seems cool. I can’t guarantee that my library will get the book on time, or that I won’t read the entire thing in a day, but if my schedule lines up, this would be a fun thing to do. On a side note, is Brandon printing more copies of Dragonsteel Prime? I read the chapters that got ported to SA, and they had cool lore I want to hear about.

Hi! Welcome to the Shard! I’m Dragonheir. It’s nice to meet you. Do you have a favorite character to read about? What power would you want in real life? What about if you were transported to the book it was from? What things are you knowledgeable about or interested in other than Brandon Sanderson books? What things do you plan to do on the Shard? I can give some recommendations if you want. Also, if you type in white text, you can send secret messages. Don’t take the cookies!