Rynon2112

I get the technicality that it is not a liquid lol. But so far it's been presented to us in a fluid like state.
Coming to the keyed part you where talking about @PanLin, I don't think that would be necessary the case here. We've seen Purified Dor change hands before and used by different people, with invested abilities or not. It feels like it has become a type of commodity, event it is a very hard one to get your hands on. It's become the equivalent to very scarce petrol atm by the looks of if.

But every time we see it is been drank from cups, stored in vases or pooling, no? I guess the corpse could be carrying a flask or something. And that probably would mean Spanky was with the Ire before passing

1 hour ago, PanLin said:

Is there a reason it couldn't have been liquid stormlight?

Just timeline wise. In the stormlight books they've told us that stormlight is reaaly difficult to take away from Roshar. MAYBE theres someone that has been able to liquefy it but it probably could not be taken away form the system when Secret History happens.

33 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

  Hide contents

Questioner

My question's about Secret History, specifically it's kind of a two-parter. The first part's easier to answer. Is it relevant that the glowing substance that Hoid puts on his oar is very similarly described as the same stuff that the Ire drink, the glowing--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, that is relevant.

Questioner

And does it have to do with Connection.

Brandon Sanderson

Ah… *sighs* Yes, but not the way you're thinking. That's a "I'm wiggling out of..." Yes, it has to do with Connection, but so does a dog. Cause a dog is Connected to things. *laughs in the audience* You said "does it have to do with"! The answer is yes.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

Hope that helps

 See, I thought about purified Dor, but I though it was always a liquid and Hoid reaching towards a pocket and taking a liquid discretely sounded weird to me. It could be a pomade or wax version that the Ire use but because it's never showed I liked to see other opinions lol.

I'm gonna now talk about secret history but I promise it is related to Isles of the Emberdark.

I have been rereading the Cosmere, particularly the Mistborn series, and while rereading Secret History the other day this paragraph caught my attention:

Quote

“It’s interesting,” the Drifter said. “Which is enough for me.” He reached down to the corpse he was using as a boat, then removed something from his pocket. Something that glowed, though Kelsier couldn’t tell if it was something naturally radiant, or just something made of metal.
The glow faded as the Drifter administered it to his vessel, then— covering the motion with a cough, as if to hide from Kelsier what he was doing—furtively applied some of the glow to his oar. When he placed the oar back into the mists, it sent the boat scooting closer to the Well.

 As you can see, this is similar to when 6th uses the worm paste on his oar and boat. It might be a bit too rash to say that, somehow, Hoid got his hands on some luminist waaay before the events of IotE, but he crearly uses some sort of substance to coat the objects so they don't sink when moving around the Scadrial subastral. Another weird thing is that he pulls it out of the pocket of the "spirit". It could be any other type of Investiture, but it can't be stormlight. Do we think its Breaths? something else? I really just want to hear more opinions because I got surprised when i found a reference to this process of applying Investiture to a vessel in a different book all together lol.

On 12/13/2024 at 12:53 PM, Argenti said:

Don't forget, Odium's colors are red-gold.

It's more like a redish gold and "ultraviolet", not red and gold. The men of red and gold were the ones that Autonomy sent to Scadrial, that's why I associate the colour with the Shard.
 

On 12/14/2024 at 4:39 PM, Qianweilian said:

I think Nohadon is neither Odium nor Autonomy related. If he is related to a shard, it will be Valor or Reason

I will say, at the end of the book when Odium tries to grab Dalinars soul and the Shards say to him: 
 

Quote

You cannot have him, the powers said, for he is claimed by another.

I will say this, I was reading the part were Dalinar talks to Nohadon and there is description of him

Quote

In the small kitchen beyond, he found a shorter man with an Alethi or Veden look about him. Silver hair, pointed beard. Smile lines and simple, old - fashioned grey robes, embroidered red and yellow. He was working at an archaic oven, all stone and brick, with a front that could not be closed.
 

I have been conditioned to think of autonomy when those two colours are mentioned together.

On 1/12/2024 at 3:33 PM, alder24 said:

The progression of Ideals is a representation of the growth of the Nahel Bond between a knight and their spren. There is a hard limit for that. I would say there is a limit of how much their souls can combine and that's reached with the 5th Ideal. The 5th Ideal is called the Final Ideal for a reason.

We don't know how it looked like before Radiants, but I think spren started to mimic Heralds, giving people Surgebinding powers and Shardblades with no oaths being involved - we probably see this time period with the Nohadon vision, he was talking about Surgebinders and about one of them who started a war before a Desolation, something that a person with such powers shouldn't have done that. They were more similar to Heralds, having powers with no checks. Then Ishar established Radiants, formed 10 Orders based on types of True Spren and based on those spren the 5 Ideal were established, binding Radiants to progression and self-development. This idea of swearing 5 Oaths is likely hard coded into the nature of the Nahel Bond with True Spren - even Renarin follows this path. This progression and Ideals are fixed.

  Reveal hidden contents

Jeremy (paraphrased)

Is the order of the Ideals fixed? E.g. does Kaladin have to say the Windrunner Ideals in a specific order, or are they situation-specific?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, the sequence is fixed. The oaths for each order are essentially a progression of understanding of the kind of person that each Order of Knights Radiant is trying to produce. The specific wording of each Ideal is not fixed, but the overall idea of each Ideal, and the order in which they are spoken, is.

When Worlds Collide 2014 (Aug. 9, 2014)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Blightsong

Were the ideals of the Knights Radiant consciously chosen, or did they happen naturally?

Brandon Sanderson

*apprehension*. This is one of those vague ones in that yes and no. They are a natural outgrowth of the spren, but the spren are a natural outgrowth of human's perception of natural forces, but the spren are sentient, so I would say it's a little more by instinct than not. For example two Knights Radiant in the same Order might speak the words differently, but the concept is the same. You will see this happen in a future book, where a Windrunner will speak the oaths. It's a slightly different take on the same concept. Some are moreso, like Shallan's oaths are very individualized truths, so.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

So, the establishing of the Knights Radiant followed up the Surgebinders. So I had a question about Renarin - Is he closer to the modern day Radiants power-wise, or the pre-Knights Radiant Surgebinders?

Brandon Sanderson

Renarin?

Questioner

Because he's weird right?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, he is weird. Is he closer to pre-Knights Radiant Surgebinders or to modern Knights Radiant? I'd say closer to modern Knights Radiant, is what I would say... but it's a tough call.

Footnote: The questioner seems to be distinguishing between the formal establishment of the Knights Radiant by Ishar, and Spren-based, Honorblade-copied Surgebinding before then.
Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

 

What's greater than "I'm the law?" The Skybreaker's Ideal starts with "I don't trust my own judgment, I will seek something external to follow" and ends with "I will trust my own judgment and I will dictate the law." The 5th Ideal Skybreaker doesn't even have to follow the 3rd Ideal anymore. If they realize that the law they have been dictating all those years is wrong, they can always change and establish new, better laws - Nale literally did that. He went from trying to prevent the Desolation from coming to joining Odium because Singers have the right to rule Roshar. A complete 180.

In the same way Windrunners seem to follow a path starting with "I will protect all" to "I can't protect all" (4th Ideal). There is a clear progression here, accepting brutal truths and this progression has to end somewhere. Just like Skybreakers will dictate the law, maybe Windrunners will dictate whom to protect - something that Kaladin asks Syl often: "is it right to kill to protect" or "do I protect only humans or Parshendi too" etc. There is a followup to Kaladin's path and it will end the Windrunner's progression. 

 

Thousands of years of torture and layers of PTSD upon layers of PTSD stacked on top of their nature of CS? 

The fact that Ideals are pre-established doesn't mean they are right all the time and give Radiants "moral" high ground. Recreance is the proof of this. Ancient Radiants, faced with the brutal reality of them being responsible for lobotomization of the entire sentient species, stacked on top of their fears that they will destroy Roshar just like humans destroyed Ashyn, didn't swear a 6th Ideal, they've broken their Oaths instead. They've realized they've been following a wrong path altogether. 

That's the solution for what you're proposing - if a Radiant facing an existential crisis realizes that what they have been following isn't right, they can and probably will break their Oaths. 

They didn't lead their Orders. The Orders were established just once and since then they stayed the way they were made. Only Nale joined and actually has been leading his order of Skybreakers and as seen, they've changed but still follow the same progression path with the same Ideals.

 

 

It's more than that. The Nahel Bond is just a bond between a spren and a physical being. Any bond. This includes Singers and their spren, Chasmfiends and Mandras, Ryshadiums and their spren and also Radiants and True Spren (sapient spren). But only True Spren can grant Surgebinding and that's what was made in ancient times - True Spren started to bond humans to mimic Honor and in consequence they've granted humans Surges through that bond because True Spren are living embodiments of those Surges.

But the levels of power current Radiants can access is the direct effect of Ishar formalizing the Orders and the Oaths. This WoB below proves that the Oaths were formalized, thus that's why the 5th Ideal is the Final Ideal. I was searching just for a WoB like this.

  Reveal hidden contents

Tom Goldthwait

At any point in the Rosharan history, was it possible to form a Nahel bond without swearing oaths?

Brandon Sanderson

"Nahel bond" is the phrase used for a bond between a spren and a being from the Physical Realm. That is the definition of it. So the answer to that is yes; it's currently possible right now. It's how greatshells exist and grow to the size they do. It's how Ryshadium exist. Those are Nahel bonds also.

What you're asking is if a sapient spren, a spren and a sapient individual, forming what we currently call the Radiant bond, which has access to much greater power; was that possible without swearing oaths? Yes and no. The formalization of the oaths and the Orders aligned with certain spren did take a little bit of time to come together. It was possible to form a Nahel bond before that, but it was not a Radiant bond accessing the levels of powers that are currently possible. So it's another one of these "yes and no" answers, if that makes any sense.

You could find a Nahel bond... In fact, many would call the bond between the singers and the spren that give them forms Nahel bonds. It may not fit fully into the categorization that most people would use it for, but you could kinda call that the same thing.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

Now that I read the surges part. When the ardents translated the text from the Dawnchant, it said that the humans already were able to control the surges:

Quote

They came from another world, using powers that we have been forbidden to touch. Dangerous powers, of spren and Surges. They destroyed their lands and have come to us begging.

Was this just granted directly by Odium? Were this powers voidbinding or some other manifestation? It kind of always bugged me.

I always thought the Nahel bond was something the spren created on their own emulating what Honor did with the Heralds

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

Voidlight is pure light. It isn't a combination of two lights, it isn't corrupted. This is proven by its spectrum measured by Navani, RoW ch 65:

I never said Voidlight was a combination of various lights. Or is the combination of 2 lights or Investitures the same as a corrupting one? That's not what I have understood until now. That would mean Navani was corrupting Stormlight when mixing it with Voidlight but there is no red in it. Same with Towerlight, no red. I think corrupted investiture would behave as a single light and would act as so when checked with the test Navani performed

I've been looking around and I haven't seen anything that addresses this particular question so here I go.

So far we have seen that in Roshar there are 3 type of Light associated with the Shards.

We have also seen that Lifelight(LL) which is green and Stormlight(SL) which is white-blue create Towerlight(TL) when combined, which is blue-green. Even more, we know that when combined, ST and Voidlight(VL), which is purple, create Warlight which is a dark-blue.

Now here is the problem.

Brandon has been very clear about the colours associated with the Shards in Roshar. Honor is white-blue, nothing wrong so far. Cultivation is green, great. But Odium's colour is not purple.

First, in the books, every time we see Odium, he is surrounded by golden light. Brandon has also said that instances of red Investiture in Roshar are linked to Odium and he has described the color as a red-gold, we know that any form of corrupted Investiture is represented as having a red tinge to it.

From the top of my head there has been a single instance where we've seen golden-red Investiture being used at all and that is at the end of RoW.

Now, here's my idea and I'd like you people to discuss it. 

The mixtures of Light so far have followed normal colour theory and so VL was not originally Odium's Investiture. Blue and red make purple. Ba-Ado-Mishram gave VL to the Singers and I think it is simple corrupted SL and that is why Venli can use both ST and VL to power her abilities.

What do you people think? Maybe what I'm saying is very obvious, but after RoW and with KoWaT/WaT coming up I've been thinking about this. Do you think we'll see people using Odium's pure/corrupted Light in ST5? Will we see a real combination of Odiumlight and SL? 

I really just want to share theories with the community and see everyone's perspectives

On 10/11/2023 at 4:49 PM, JohnnyKaizen said:

I cannot speak for anyone else but myself. I have found (quite literally) hundreds of times that Brandon's neurodivergence speaks directly to mine. I rationally understand how this line could throw you for a loop, but for me, it was an absolutely normal thing to happen. Sigzil/Nomad/Zellion was in so much grief that he disassociated from it, and forgot. My Uncle died three years ago..and I had to remind myself twice this week that he's dead. I forget all the time.

As a writer, it is exceptionally difficult to write things that everyone can relate to, and I think that is especially challenging for Brandon (and the fact that he succeeds at doing so, so much of the time speaks to his monumental talent) but I don't think it's at all fair to say that he is bad at writing grief because you personally didn't connect to the manner in which it's written (or even if a lot of people didn't ... as long as there is a group that does?) If it's just me that connected to it, then what I'm writing here would be applied to me instead. I feel that it's easy to jump to a conclusion that we ourselves don't have a personal connection to. Just my thoughts on this specific thing, for what it's worth.

I don't know if its neurodivergence or not as I am not diagnosed, but I experience it multiple times a week with all sorts of loved ones. My grandfather that died 5 year ago for example, or my dog that died last year. You forget, and when the realization comes, it hurts, a lot, but you don't breakdown every time and specially, not when under stress.

On 10/11/2023 at 10:55 PM, danex said:

for like the 9th time, it’s not the forgetting itself that was poor writing, it’s the way he writes Nomad’s reaction to it. Remembering that Aux is dead should be an absolute sucker punch. we get two words. Just like “ah right, i forgot. anyway…”

if brandon intended for this to be a dissociation-type moment, he needed to write that better too! there’s just nothing. he just didn’t write it. no indication that he’s experiencing any sort of trauma or whatever. you could argue “well it’s hard to show that when it’s from the PoV of the character disassociating”, but that’s still not an excuse, if that’s the case, he needed to add a PoV where he could show this dissociation or something. 

like you know “show don’t tell”? the age old writing advice? well brandon didn’t do either. you can’t argue “writing by omission”, you just can’t imply all of this without writing a single word on the page.

like none of this is actually about grief, it’s about writing. and this writing, is bad. he pulled out a chekhovs gun, waved it around, and then accidentally dropped it and walked away. 

I have found myself literally thinking "Oh yeah... right..." countless times and that doesn't mean that I don't suffer from it... I'm sorry that that didn't match your experience @danexbut I have to agree with @JohnnyKaizen, it really spoke to me

On 10/12/2023 at 10:44 PM, JohnnyKaizen said:

Again, for me..two words was all it took. It spoke to me on a visceral level. I don't feel that I need to go into all of the reasons why, simply that it did, and that made it feel like a very intentional choice. You clearly want Brandon to have written this part in a specific way, and he didn't, and you have negative feelings about that. I get that. That still doesn't mean he did a bad job on this specific thing. It means he made a choice you disagree with, and it's totally ok to disagree with that choice. I don't think it's ok to accuse him of being a bad writer, of slacking off, or whatever else.

Sanderson is probably the most intentional writer I know. He most definitely knows what he's written. Not to mention all of the people he has to alpha read, then beta read, then whoever he had be the editor for this book (I don't recall if that was his regular person or not) and then whoever that person had read the book. I find it difficult, in the extreme, to believe that all of those sets of eyes crossed over this book and nobody brought up, "Hey..this seem super brief for such a devastating loss" to Brandon, and that he didn't have a reason for writing it that way. I suppose there is that 1 in a billion chance, but I'm going to fall on the side of, he made that choice. I am sorry that this bothered you so much, and/or ruined that part of the story for you, because that really sucks. That made the writing bad for you, and I accept that. I don't except that that makes Sanderson a bad writer.

Couldn't have worded it better 

1 minute ago, The Honorable One said:

Yes, I love that about the Cosmere! Brandon planned everything out super well and I spend hours studying the books.

It has become the target of my hyperfixation, so it's definitely the same for me 

On 11/23/2023 at 4:28 AM, The Honorable One said:

Nice to meet you! What Sanderson book or series is your favorite?

That is such a difficult question because I like different things from different ones. Stormlight has a special place in my heart because against every recommendation online, I started my journey through the Cosmere there lol.

But, what keeps me going back and rereading all the books is the Cosmere, its mechanics, and how they relate to each other. Finding all the constants throughout the books is a completely enriching and maddening experience lmao.

On 11/23/2023 at 5:45 PM, Trusk'our said:

Minor nitpick I'm going to make here, but doesn't TenSoon say that it more than doubles his strength when he picks up OreSeur's Blessing after leaving the Homeland? It's probably just because of Hemalurgic Decay and Investiture compression that it isn't tripled, meaning that each spike contains nearly 1 person's worth of Investiture, but not quite.

As @Trusk'our pointed with their quote, It is known that there are Allomancers that are stronger, more efficient than others, but I don't think we need to go all the way into Allomancy to talk about it.

I'm sure you know someone who is just naturally stronger than you IRL. I think the blessings take that innate fortitude and just add that extra pewter burning as a spice. My understanding is that if you added your strength and your stronger friend's strength together that wouldn't work as 1 + 1 = 2 but as 1+1.5 = 2.5 even taking into account the Hemalurgic decay.

It's my first post outside of the introductory one so pls let me know anything that I might be doing wrong.

I'm finishing a reread of Mistborn era 1 and while listening to the Epigraphs something caught my attention and decided to read them carefully.

This will be spoilers for the first Mistborn trilogy:

I wrote everything inside a spoiler because I'm not sure of the etiquette yet, once again let me know if anything isn't done properly hahaha 

I started reading and listening to the Cosmere books 1 year ago and I have now gone through everything but Whitesand and Yumi at last 3 times. I think it was about time I ended here.