Dros

Maybe it has something to do with the Cognitive or Spiritual Realm/aspects? In WoK, when Shallan Soulcasts for the first time, she talks with what appears to be the Cognitive aspect of the goblet (the part where it says something on the line of: change? i can change, i haven't in so long but if you want...) So maybe there's a Cognitive Aspect to these Shardworlds? *shrug* just throwing ideas out there

That's a really an interesting thought. So could the face in the storm be the manisfestation of Roshar? Roshar had a name because it has sentience in some way? Is that akin to your train of thought?

zas678, on 06 February 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

You know, maybe "where Honor lies" isn't in the West. In our early culture, (and in our present culture), if you ask someone where Heaven and God is, they'll point up.

So perhaps Uritihiru is being put in the West because there's a really high spot where they could make a city.

EDIT- And I'm working on my Spren theory. It will be here soon. And it's not so much a Spren thoery, as a spren stance of what I believe, and why I back it up.

EDIT 2- Another random idea- Maybe "where Honor lies" isn't where Honor lays- maybe it's where Honor doesn't tell the truth. Or where the Honorable thing to do is to not tell the truth.

I like the last part, seriously makes me think of Shinovar, and puts another spin on the Truthless.

I like that too, it's a clever twist.

"I think you're missing my point. In the same way that God requires that you marry someone to formalize your love, Honor by his very nature might require that the Words be spoken to strengthen the bond."

Okay, I think we're probably agreeing then and I have reading comprehension problems. By "formal" you mean binding, i.e. the contract is now in effect and all advantages therein are now conferred...sometimes when I say "formally", I mean lets do it so everyone can witness it, although this thing is already done. I don't think you meant it in the way I was thinking of it, thus my misunderstanding. Syl is pleading with him to say the words and a voice in his mind comes outright and says, "The Words" or something like that. So Syl or whoever the voice originates with, needs to hear them...formally. I agree.

Seems more than formal, though. Wedding vows spoken aloud are what allows others to witness and verify you have taken them and therefore grant the couple special status in society, i.e. you're married, now you can file jointly for tax purposes...Congrats! It doesn't mean the love becomes more powerful or deeper, it's more of a legal requirement and religious ritual. And marraige is not required to love another. It appears the spoken oaths are required to access power for a potential KR.

Although the spoken words for a potential KR could be a formalization of the intent, it might be that the words must be spoken aloud to verify the intent and thus access the power available to someone of such intent. Which might mean, it must be heard by someone or something in order for the power to be granted to someone. After all, not all Shards can read minds can they?

If it was just a formal legalistic thing, it really wouldn't be necessary for someone to access the power, it would just be something cool to say before you power up. The way it was presented by Sanderson seems to imply there is something very important about the spoken words beyond announcing your intent to become more powerful. It's a ritual that grants power, not legal status.

But isn't what Truthspren require something akin to confessions? The first step toward honor is admitting your mistakes and taking responsibility for them.

Great post by the way! Lots to mull over in there and could explain a lot.

I have a couple questions about the quote that maybe some of you might be able to provide some insight. The quote ends by saying U. should be built further West to be closer to Honor.

I just thought of this, but isn't it strange that someone in world, not Hoid or a Herald or the guy in the storm or anyone quoted in historical writings, referred to the Almighty's Shard name? I don't think anyone else does that. They always refer to the Almighty don't they? Does any other character do that? It sounds like at that time, the people of Roshar were aware of a Shard named Honor present on the planet. As far as I can tell, that's not true at present on Roshar. The gods they recognize are the Heralds.

Also, building a city is a pretty permanent thing. This denotes that Honor was not mobile at that time and building a city near him was a perfectly reasonable request. I know that in other Sanderson Cosmere books, Shards are present as liquid pools in the physical realm. Is it possible Honor was present in some similar form as well and it was well known among the populace?

This doesn't really help locate the city, but it seems relevant for some reason. Maybe Honor's physical presence powered the Oathgates and after Honor departed or was killed, there was no reason for the KR to stay there and they simply abandoned it because it was of no further use without Honor's presence. Maybe the abandonement of U. corresponds with the date Odium killed Honor.

Creepy. Does that mean she was swimming around a bunch of dead people?

Why did Honor originally agree to such a thing?

This has been discussed before on here. I keep trying to figure out why he would accept such a seriously flawed deal. Obviously we don't know everything about it or how the other side was bound, but sending your top guys to get tortured for a millenia or two doesn't seem like a very good deal.

Having said that, if Odium is really as strong as people are thinking at the moment...well, I guess you try to bind him in any way you can. Ten guys get tortured for a very long time to at least give your side a fighting chance vs. the planet gets wiped from existence. Hard to argue if those are the choices.

I've got a theory, forgive me if it's already been communicated and also for basically piggy-backing off everybody else's research.

By the very name Seventeenth Shard, it can be assumed the organization has a more intimate knowledge of Shards and their holders. From the letter we know they have a policy of non-intervention. Presumably that is in reference to direct conflicts between Shards.

In his letter, Hoid writes:

the very pillars of the sky will shake with the results of our war here.

He calls it "our war", not their war or the war, but our war. My theory is that Hoid is going to intervene in a conflict between Shards in an overt, direct way. He has a plan to physically engage either Odium or another as of yet identified Shard or diety in the war coming to Roshar. Apparently he believes the Everstorm, or Last Desolation, is a far greater threat to the Universe than just wiping out life on Roshar.

The Seveteenth Shard has a policy of non-intervention, so naturally they want to stop him from engaging a Shard, or Shards, in direct conflict.

Now this assumes a great amount of power inherent in Hoid, who I believe it has been proven to not have a Shard.

Thoughts?

Sanderson did say the Stormlight Archive was about ten angelic beings driven insane by what they have borne for humanity. He didn't say how that manifested, but the small clips we've seen of the Heralds and the clues many think point to the Heralds doesn't paint a picture of perfect mental health.

It seems BS might be hinting that these planets in particular are special in some way beyond their interactions with the Shards. It sounds like the Shards didn't randomly pick these planets, but were drawn to them for whatever unknown reason. The planets being named before the Shards arrived denotes 1) Windrunner is right and the prior inhabitants named it (or) 2) someone or something had already named it and the Shards knew the name.

So, wouldn't the real question be: how did the Shards know the names of these planets? In that same vein, how does any inhabitant of those worlds know the names of their respective planets? The names seem to be fixed and have not changed throughout the histories of each world. So, the names are important for some reason, in my opinion.

Edit: Oh, and I agree with Windrunner, it's highly unlikely scientists or explorers named all the planets. The planets of the Cosmere seem to be special in some way, thus earning a name from an intelligence we haven't heard about yet; either terrestrial or for lack of a better word, an "Other."

Could the numbers be significant in the makeup of the Shards themselves? Like 10 aspects that make up Honor? If shattered, Honor would release 10 individual splinters (not sure what they're called when shattred?), Preservation would release 16, etc.

"Firstly, why would Odium agree to a duel with Honor, when he could apparently kill him with straight up force once the Oathpact ended?"

Perhaps the Oathpact doesn't have anything to do with Odium at all and the "Enemy" is actually something else. If Honor was directly opposing Odium, why be surprised Odium would take advantage of any break in the Oathpact and come after him? If Honor was directly opposing Odium I would think Honor would be watching Odium's every move. Maybe that's why Honor was angry with himself for not foreseeing Odium coming after him directly? He was never in direct conflict with Odium in the first place, but knew Odium was a hateful little pr!ck who had already killed two Shardholders (maybe more)and realized he should have been ready for an attack anyway.

Jacob,

The Oathpact was broken because the KR were broken.

You mean the Heralds not the Knights Radiant, I believe.

I agree with you about the Parshendi not being the Voidbringers. It just doesn't seem to be the way BS would go. Just...too easy.

And Telcontar,

That bit about the Shardblades...I really had forgotten about the fact that they must be "called" and appear wet in the bearer's hand and the fact that Taln looks as if he has swam a great distance when he appears. Isn't Shadesmar all water where there is land in the physical realm? And isn't it treated as very dangerous to fall into the waters?

3.What changed that Odium can initiate another Desolation now?

"The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing people he didn't exist."

Perhaps the greatest trick Odium ever played was convincing the people of Roshar there would be no more Desolations.

On the back of the book it explains that the "Enemy" may have figured out that by knowing the Desolations were coming and having to defend themselves on a constant basis, he had unwittingly trained and hardened them to resist. Maybe he figures it would be best to let the people of Roshar get weak and then smash them by surprise thinking they would be too sissified to resist after such a long time between Desolations. (Especially after the Heralds AND the Radiants had basically quit.)

Taln said he failed, but it probably wasn't up to him in the first place. I think, more than likely there is no minimum time between Desolations Odium must follow. Odium was in control of the timing all along. The only part of the Oathpact he had to follow was to release the Heralds before a Desolation. He released Taln, the last one honoring the Oathpact.

Re: the Purelake...I thought there might be a connection with the Shattered Plains too, but I really have no idea what it is. I used to think the Purelake has some connection to the creation of the Shattered Plains and some sort of recent connection to the Highstorms. But now, seeing the overwhelming evidence, I would definitely concur that the Highstorms have been around for quite some time and that means the Purelake and the Highstorms have probably been around longer than the Shattered Plains.

One observation though (or question as it were)...the Purelake's location is somewhat like the eye of a hurricane, and the continent is somewhat shaped like a circular storm, like it's moving in a counterclockwise motion even, like a hurricane would...why?

Right, I don't think Odium is motivated to destroy Roshar or the people living on it as a whole, but it's likely to be a side-effect of whatever his real intention is.

Also, what exactly is his motivation in killing other shardholders (besides hating them)? It doesn't seem he takes in the power of the shard in any way. Getting Hionor out of the way is one reason, I guess, but it's my understanding the Shard keeps it's power even after the holder dies. Why kill the other two, as well? I guess that might be the whole jist of the story, though.

I thought it was relatively clear from context they were talking about west of Alethela, but YMMV. There's no point speculating about other continents at the moment, as we have no idea whether they even exist, and I'm highly doubtful they would feature in the story. As the Shattered Plains are one of the east-most locations that we know of in Roshar, it still makes no sense that anyone we'd ever hear from in the Stormlight Archives would call them "west", let alone imply that they're west of Alethela.

You're probably right on this.

Going back to the origin of the Highstorms, have you considered that they might be mostly caused by the extreme tidal forces Roshar is under?

I don't seem to recall anyone in Dalinar's past visions ever mentioning the Highstorms. If that is so, it would make them a relatively "recent" phenomena.

Perhaps they killed Gavilar because he wasn't the right one to unite them. Maybe Gavilar was flawed in a fatal way and they thought he was unworthy.

That would explain when the Parshendi in Shardplate saw Dalinar he said, (to paraphrase)"It's you, I finally found you." Dalinar is who they need/want to ally with, although at the time they didn't know who exactly they were looking for. And since Dalinar had swore to never seek the throne, this was what they needed to happen to get the "right one" in place.

Whereas I'm just a monkey with a pad and a couple decades drawing experience.

Don't downplay your talent, bud. The illustrations in WoK are fantastic.

I think there more of a secret society, like the Illuminati.

Maybe it's just Keyser Soze! You know, "a spook story that criminals tell their kids at night."

I didn't pay enough attention to the Ghostbloods arc, I guess, because I had a vision in my head that they were some sort of mafia or criminal organization.

Note that the Shattered Plains are east of both Alethkar and Alethela, so if that quote is reliable, then Urithru couldn't have been near the Shattered Plains.

But unless we know who is speaking and, more importantly, where he's speaking, it's difficult to know if everything is West from the perspective of the speaker. Maybe he's some guy from another continent to the east of the one we have seen?

Didn't BS say somewhere there are around 30 different types of magic on Roshar?

And if magic is derived from the Shards, it would make sense to me that there are ten aspects of magic derived from each shard. Ten from honor, ten from Cultivation and ten from Odium. I thought the back cover is some type of illustration of Cultivation's or Odium's magic system, while the front was an illustration of Honor's magic system. There are ten large glyphs in each illustration. Also, there's an illustration that shows a device on a wrist with the same "design" as the illustrations on it. I imagine it must have something to do with that particular magic system. The placement of the gems are important in some way I think.