Eahlendell

I’ve been wondering why Odium stripped the intent from Ambition and how all that investiture changed polarity. Did he murder Aona and Sami first and learned from that experience. Fascinated by the evil. Was also wondering if a type 1-6 invested entity is just a type 1 invested entity and allocated the number six for ambition.

Isn’t an Avatar of a shard also a shard… wouldn’t this mean Patji has enough investiture to prerecord the three realms and create a perpendicularity

I was thinking more around that Harmony is in a unique position in that he controls two of the shards. When Honor attacks Odium he feels the creation anti-light, and we now see that Ambitions splinters are composed of entirely anti-investiture. I was theorising in my head that he could use one shard to help flip the polarity of the other.

This idea started brewing after I saw two questions on the forum recently. One asked what was Harmony the only living shard to have , and another speculated on anti-investiture. That combo lit a fire in my brain. We know from Rhythm of War that anti-Investiture exists and behaves like antimatter to Investiture, annihilating its counterpart on contact. But so far, we’ve only seen it in very specific contexts: the splinters of Ambition lingering around Threnody. These aren’t cognitive shadows—they’re splinters, and they’re saturated with anti-Investiture. That’s important because it shows that anti-Investiture isn’t just theoretical. It’s real, it’s dangerous, and it can persist. So what happens if a full Shard starts flipping its own Investiture? I think Sazed might be the first to do it. Harmony is a precarious balance between Ruin and Preservation, and we know from The Lost Metal that Sazed is struggling. There’s a line in the book that hints at Discord emerging, and I think that’s the key. If Sazed has begun to flip some portion of his Investiture, maybe in response to external threats like Trell or Autonomy, or just as a desperate attempt to maintain balance. Then he’s not just Harmony anymore. He’s actively manipulating the polarity of his power to preserve equilibrium. Imagine Preservation starts to dominate. Sazed might convert a portion of Preservation’s Investiture into anti-Investiture to counterbalance it. It’s not destruction; it’s inversion. A kind of spiritual counterweight. But once you introduce anti-Investiture into the system, you’ve created a new dynamic. It doesn’t just sit quietly—it interacts, interferes, and destabilizes. You get a feedback loop. The Shard starts compensating again, maybe flipping a bit of Ruin to match. And so on. What began as a small correction becomes a slow, inevitable chain reaction. Over time, more and more of Harmony’s Investiture flips, until the original balance is gone and something new has taken its place. That something could be Discord. And here’s the twist. Discord wouldn’t be a failure of Harmony. It would be a transformation. A new Intent born from the interference pattern between Investiture and anti-Investiture. A Shard whose power is no longer locked in stasis, but capable of decisive action. Harmony is paralyzed by contradiction—Ruin wants change, Preservation wants stasis, and Sazed is stuck trying to honor both. But Discord, paradoxically, might be freer. If the Investiture is polarized, then the Intents themselves could mutate. So what would that look like? Preservation, when flipped, might no longer seek to maintain what is. It could become a force of negation. Not stasis, but erasure. A desire to prevent existence itself, rather than preserve it. Ruin, when flipped, might shift from decay and entropy to outright annihilation. Not change through destruction, but obliteration without transformation. Harmony, as the synthesis of these two, would no longer be about balance. It would become Discord—a dynamic, unstable Intent that thrives on tension, contradiction, and interference. And unlike Harmony, Discord could act. It wouldn’t be bound by the need to maintain equilibrium. It could choose, even if that choice came with risk and instability. Which brings us to the prophecy: they shall call him Discord, and they will love him for it. That line only makes sense if Discord is not just a collapse, but a rebirth. A Shard that can finally move, finally choose, finally lead. Maybe not in perfect harmony, but in passionate, purposeful discord. And if Sazed is the only Shard to have done this, it makes him uniquely vulnerable—but also uniquely powerful. He’s experimenting with a form of Investiture manipulation that no other Shard has dared to touch. Maybe that’s why Autonomy is so interested in Scadrial. Maybe she sees the potential—or the threat. Anyway, just a theory, but I think there’s something there. Would love to hear other takes, especially if anyone’s spotted WoBs that hint at Shards interacting with anti-Investiture or if there’s more on the nature of Discord beyond what we got in The Lost Metal. And finally I wonder what Mercy did to poor Ambition.

Maybe it’s two spree, a radiant spree is the gun and the voidspren manifests as the magazine.

Doesn’t gain life haven’t sets of arms. Why would Cusicesh share theirs feature? When I was reading this book my mind also connected Both types of these entities.

I found most puzzling was this: if no Shard resides in the system, then there shouldn’t be a perpendicularity. That’s typically how it works. I was hoping that wouldn’t be the case—because if perpendicularities can exist on shardless planets, it opens the door for worlds like Tress’s to access the Cognitive Realm without a Shard being present. The other possibility is that people underestimate Patji’s nature. If Patji is truly an avatar of Autonomy, then perhaps Autonomy has always been present in the system—long before the arrival of those from the Forests of the Sun. It’s still unclear which explanation is more likely, but both raise fascinating questions about how Shards interact with their systems.

What happened to Autonomy: I get the impression that she no longer around.

I understood that was due to the additional godmetal used in that process. (New to Posting so unsure how to add spoiler fields). I have been wondering that if Ettmetal is used up by the process of lifting an airship, that would be using the metal to access preservations magic system would it leave atium as a waste product? I feel like it will be one or the other.

What is left over when it reacts. What is Brandon referring too. Something significant to the Cosmete and Scadrial. What is the waste product of ettmetal?

Do you think Wind, Night and Stone existed on different cosmere planets. Not so sure about Truth?

Thanks for your responses. i have also had the idea that Ado created the small cluster of stars that is the Cosmere.otherwise its a very limited and young “universe” so to speak. The aethers believe that they predate Ado and that may be the case. In terms of the future I often wonder what will become of the shards and the races. All these attributes of god without context are always going to prove a challenge for humanity.

On my third reread I noticed this comment from on Wit I have been assuming that the Dragons who had a mighty civilisation when Humans were not as developed on Yolen that the only thing that would predate them would be Ado himself. Who would these gods be? I always remember the WOB about an opposing force which I do understand could have been the original vessels. Ado in my opinion can’t represent a being like the Anrahamic God as he would be omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent and much means he either planned the Shatterting or he didn’t. Could there be some smaller gods running around or more Like Ado himself!

If I remember the sort correctly she climbs the steps and find a world living in light. Could this be Urithiru? The wall being the barrier the Sibling and Navani created

My head cannon since the Nalthis essay is that the cognitive anomaly is what is left of Nalthis 1.0 and that the current planet was Endowments second attempt. I’m unsure why I came to that conclusion but it’s stuck in my head!

I always felt the combination of Towerlight (science) and Warlight could represent all three shards coming together as Civilisation. The British kind, where we tried to impose our ideals and values on the whole world.

If always imagined that the mural was a circle broken into four with each price broken down again.

I was reading the preview chapters of The Knights of Wind and Truth yesterday, and there was a line about Shallan speaking to Sja-anat. It seems they’re quite familiar with each other now, which could be a significant development. I can't shake the feeling that Testament might end up becoming enlightened. This would potentially make Shallan a unique bridge between two different types of Radiants: the traditional Radiants and the enlightened ones. This got me thinking about Ba-Ado-Mishram and the themes of wind, night, and stone. Mishram was once called the "queen of the gods," which I believe refers to the older gods from Ado's era. I’ve always speculated that there would be sixteen "OP" spren (overpowered spren), but now I’m starting to question that theory. Here’s where we stand: We currently have four of these powerful spren. If we count the Unmade, we’d have twelve. Adding the Sibling, the Nightwatcher, and the Stormfather brings us to fifteen. So, only one seems to be missing. However, recent revelations complicate things. We’ve learned that the Sibling is connected to stone, the Nightwatcher is a new creation by Cultivation, and the Stormfather, while powerful, is much younger than the original Wind. This suggests that there may be more than just the four original gods we’ve been considering. As I write this, I realize that the number four appears repeatedly, even more than sixteen does. For example, we have the four Dawnshards. In the mural at Akinah, it seems that Ado was divided into four parts, and each part was further split into four pieces. Perhaps, then, Ado's "lucky number" is four rather than sixteen. What do you all think? Could this pattern around the number four hint at something fundamental about Ado or the gods?

….a mere essay in the craft…. In the world of Roshar, a fascinating idea emerges from the evolving character of Taravangian—a man who now holds the Shard of Odium but remains poised to achieve something unprecedented. A pivotal moment occurs in The Stormlight Archive when Taravangian, known for his ruthless pragmatism and fierce intellect, gains control of Odium. This event sets the stage for a deeper exploration of Shardwielding, human nature, and the potential for a being to wield multiple Shards without being overwhelmed by their conflicting intents. At first glance, Taravangian’s dual nature, often torn between passion and logic, might suggest an inherent disharmony with Odium’s singular, consuming focus. His character seems to oscillate between cold, calculating reason and raw, unbridled emotion. Initially, I interpreted this internal division as a sign that Taravangian was struggling to fully bond with the Shard he now controls. But a deeper idea began to take shape: What if this internal conflict is not a weakness, but a sign of a deeper design? What if Taravangian’s Boon and Curse, granted by Cultivation, were always meant to prepare him for something much larger? This theory proposes that Taravangian, far from being a typical vessel for a Shard, may be on the path to wield multiple Shards without merging their intents—something unprecedented in the cosmere. His passionate side, fueled by Odium, could be just one facet of a larger potential. His inherent logic, kept separate from his passion, could serve as a stabilizing force, allowing him to balance the power of multiple Shards in a way no one has done before. Taravangian’s Connection to Cultivation A crucial part of this theory lies in Taravangian’s established connection to Cultivation. Cultivation’s role in the cosmere is one of subtle but profound influence, particularly through her practice of granting Boons and Curses. It is no coincidence that Cultivation herself gave Taravangian his strange and powerful duality—a mind that oscillates between brilliance and simplicity, between empathy and cold-hearted logic. This gift, though it seems like a curse on some days, may have been intentionally designed to prepare him for something more. Could Taravangian be on the path to wield both Odium and Cultivation? Their connection is clear: Cultivation already has a claim to part of Taravangian’s soul, having shaped him with her own hands. While wielding multiple Shards typically involves merging their intents—such as Sazed’s unification of Ruin and Preservation into Harmony—Taravangian may instead be capable of wielding them separately. His carefully maintained division between logic and passion could make him uniquely suited for such a task. The Death Rattle: A Prophetic Shift in Power The prophetic words, “Three of sixteen ruled, now the Broken One reigns,” found in the Death Rattles, offer a tantalizing clue. These words suggest a profound shift in the cosmere’s power dynamics, particularly among the Shards. The “Broken One” could very well refer to Taravangian, now the holder of Odium. This notion fits perfectly with the idea that Taravangian’s passionate side—the part most influenced by Odium—might now be in control. His journey from a mere king to a godlike figure holding the most destructive Shard aligns with the vision of the Broken One ruling over the cosmere. But why stop at Odium? If Taravangian can indeed maintain his internal division, wielding Odium without being consumed by its intent, it stands to reason that he might also be able to pick up another Shard. Cultivation, already tied to him through the Boon she granted, could be the next. The result would be a being capable of extraordinary power and balance, wielding two Shards while keeping their intents separate—a feat no one in the cosmere has accomplished. The Legacy of Rayse: Protecting Odium’s Purity This concept of wielding multiple Shards is in direct contrast to Rayse’s approach. As the previous holder of Odium, Rayse was fiercely protective of the Shard’s singular, consuming nature. His primary goal was to maintain Odium’s purity—its undiluted focus on passion and hatred. Rayse actively avoided taking up other Shards, such as Devotion, Ambition, and Dominion, precisely because he feared that they would “taint” Odium’s intent, weakening its power. This decision reveals Rayse’s recognition that Odium, once merged with another Shard, could lose its pure focus and become something else entirely. However, Taravangian may be the key to transcending this limitation. If his dual nature—passionate yet logical—can allow him to keep the intents of multiple Shards separate, he might be able to wield Odium alongside other Shards without compromising their purity. In this scenario, Odium’s hatred and passion could remain intact, while another Shard, such as Cultivation, could add an entirely new dimension to his power without overwhelming his identity. This potential ability to compartmentalize each Shard’s intent is what makes Taravangian’s situation so unique and compelling. Harmony’s Inert Nature: A Product of Opposing Forces The cosmere already provides a striking example of a Shardholder wielding multiple Shards: Sazed, the vessel for both Ruin and Preservation, who now holds the title of Harmony. While Harmony represents a remarkable balance between two fundamentally opposing forces, it also introduces a major limitation. The polar opposition of Ruin and Preservation—destruction versus stasis—creates a constant internal tension. These Shards are diametrically opposed in their very essence, and this balance has rendered Harmony somewhat inert. Sazed’s ability to act is constrained because the two Shards cancel each other out, leaving him unable to fully express the powers of either intent without conflict. It is important to recognize that this inertness is not a result of wielding two Shards in general, but specifically because of the opposing nature of Ruin and Preservation. Their intents are so contradictory that they neutralize each other’s full potential. In contrast, if Taravangian were to wield Shards with more complementary intents, such as Odium and Cultivation, he might not face the same paralysis that Harmony experiences. This separation of intent could allow him to act decisively, using the strengths of each Shard without the risk of their opposing natures causing inaction. A New Kind of Shardwielder Taravangian’s journey is one that has been marked by ambition, sacrifice, and a deep desire to reshape the world according to his own vision. His belief that one person must bear the burden of ruling, keeping their hands bloody to ensure the safety of others, reflects his twisted but deeply held sense of responsibility. This perspective is both honorable and ruthless, a combination that could make him an ideal candidate to wield more than one Shard. Cultivation’s gift, Odium’s power, and Taravangian’s own internal conflict all point to the possibility that he is not merely the latest in a line of Shardholders, but someone destined for something far greater. His ability to maintain both logic and passion, his connection to both Cultivation and Odium, and the prophetic nature of the Death Rattles all suggest that Taravangian could become the first being in the cosmere capable of wielding multiple Shards without being subsumed by their intents. Where Rayse feared contamination, Taravangian’s dual nature may allow him to avoid that fate, separating the intents of the Shards he wields and preventing one from influencing the other. This would give him a flexibility and strength that not even Rayse could achieve. In contrast to Sazed, whose balance of Ruin and Preservation has made Harmony inert, Taravangian’s approach could allow him to wield multiple Shards without suffering from the paralysis of opposing forces. In conclusion, Taravangian represents a new kind of god—a being capable of holding immense power without being bound by the limitations that have restrained others like Sazed. If he can indeed wield multiple Shards separately, without merging their intents, he may become the most powerful and versatile force the cosmere has ever seen. His journey is far from over, and the full extent of his potential may only be beginning to reveal itself…..

Reading these comments made me think that the dawnsingers would have been around in the time of Adonalsium. We know he created the Rosharan System. Imagine spren and singers in a symbiotic system. Honor and cultivation turn up, new forms of spren appear. I imagine odium could sell the idea of fusing with your spren being a Good thing.

Does anyone have an inclination of what all this investiture is being used for or stored for. The planet is constantly charging and giving off heat as a byproduct. I also feel we didn’t get a good enough and Kerr about the mountains. There is something more going on in them hills .

The chorus appears to be completely different to Threnoidite shades, and act a little like the Spirits from TOTES. I have another thread going about the core of the planet. In terms of mass it isn’t a huge space. Would the originals Threnodites potentially have helped create this planet. Brandon’s books always spark the imagination.

Hey guys, I loved this book from Brandon and I love the depth that this book provided. As this book leads up to its end we find out that for the sunlight to restore the us heart it requires some investiture. This investiture forms the resistance needed for the sunheart to interact with investiture from the sunlight. We learn as we go on that the core of the planet acts like the filament in an incandescent light bulb which generates huge amounts of heat. I would like to propose that what we are seeing here is the work of two separate shards. One shard that has invested the Sun and another that has invested the planet. I am starting to wonder if the planet is the tenement of a dead shard. A piece if it’s power down somewhere in the core. If the sunhearts require there to be some form of resistance to generate a new charge. This would mean that the planet must contain some investiture that is different to the stars. It would also have to be a source that is either renewable or robust enough to maintain this equilibrium with the star over time. In my mind I also feel there may be a way to rule out which shard has invested the sun. We know that there needs to be some form of resistance to enable the sunhearts, we know that a Thaylen Sunheart (Cultivation / Honor ) creates a smaller heart than say a Threnodite (Ambition). If this sun was invested by Ambition for example would there be any resistance between that and a soul of a threnodite? What do you think? Is there anything special at the centre.

Hi Everyone, it is very rare that I post but I have a feeling about why threnodies are on this new world. We hear the chorus in the books talk about rejecting the Evil and leaving their home world. We also hear about how if there is too many shades that they can attack the locals. We also find out that the Threnodites left in the sun create renewable energy sources. this seems to be the perfect solution to manage the amount of shades on the planet. You either sacrifice the last of your investiture to recharge a small amount in a sun heart or you can be left in the sun. Immolation creating a new power source. We also see that Rebekes brother joined the chorus after dying on a battle. It appears that they have found the perfect planet to match their issues around death and shades.

Sorry everyone. I originally meant that over time the balance would shift more towards ruin due to the increased amount of humans with that extra piece of preservation.