Green Hoodie Mistborn

True, it remains to be seen what a voidbringer is in fact though. They may be Voidbringers in the larger sense, but not Voidbringers in a specific sense. I guess RAFO, but I'm of the opinion that they are not voidbringers in the specific sense, hence I'm going to be espousing this theory. AS I said earlier, I do think they are part of Odium's forces, but that they are not voidbringers per se.

Sadly I have to agree with this idea... I was hoping that the Set's plan would ultimately fail, but it seems that in light of this quote that I had forgotten that their plan is very likely the breeding program and that they do indeed succeed, le sigh Great idea/theory though!

Interesting, I have always read that section in the context of how hard the fight had been this time So to me it is saying that their enemies had done their jobs well, so well that the fighting had been one of the worst Desolations to that point.

Heh, I asked this same question in the "Seventeenth Shard are Separate" theory thread a few minutes ago... Remember Hoid managed to go there AND leave and I suspect that he was using the Shadesmar to travel, but he might just be that much better at manuplulating it than others given how long he's been doing it. Also remember that WoK is 100's, possibly close to 1000 years after the events in Elantris, so Galladon may have had much practice as well. (Elantris + unknown time span = Mistborn 1-3 +341 yrs = Alloy of Law/Warbreaker + "hundreds of years" = Way of Kings)

Here is an interesting quote regarding Hoid's presence on Roshar, when he was speaking to Kaladin in tWoK: I wonder if he is talking about PBA here? If so that could change who and what we're looking for, perhaps the leader of the 17th Shard is traveling to worlds in order to set up these secret societies we keep see popping up (the Set, the Ghostbloods, the Dahkor (I think they're secret enough)) Given the PBA's non-interference though this quote from one of the Ghostbloods is interesting. Is maintaining stability the opposite of non-interference? I also want to know how Hoid and subsequently Elantrians used the Shadesmar to leave Sel, given that Brandon has said "Do not go to Shadesmar on this world (really, I'm not kidding)" Obviously we see that happened because Hoid got out and Galladon shows up on Roshar almost a millenium after the events in Elantris (we know that Warbreaker/AoL happen at the roughly same time, and that is 341 years after HoA, and tWoK is hundreds of years after Warbreaker in the chronology)

Well that is good confirmation indeed. it is interesting that Peter says "at least one more" in his reply. I hadn't ever read that thread on TWG so that's why I don't remember it For anyone else the info is HERE I wonder if there were more than 1 additional bead, what Hoid is doing with those fun little beads? I wonder if he used the one that we suspect he did take or not.

I would have to disagree that Odium can't create, but I'm basing this solely on the theological explanation of an 'Ardent' who was an assassin... though since he was part of a secret society, they may have more information than even the Ardents in relation to this subject. Here a quote when Shallan is asking Kabsal about Voidbringers: To me that says that Odium did create or does create. I have a running post on the Theory board that Parshment are not voidbringers, so I think that Odium did create a three different creatures and that Voidbringers are humans similarly attuned to Odium's power as the Knights Radiants are to Honor's Shard

I find myself vacillating on this the more I think about it. One of the problems is that the histories that Jasnah is going through are fragments of quotes of earlier works or descriptions of earlier works about something that hasn't be fought in 4500 years... aside from the Heralds and Knight Radiant people in that day were: At a very low level of development, and we know that before the Last Desolation is called "before history began" a number of times in the book, maybe because it did start, but was wiped out everytime a desolation began, but for whatever reason recorded history for Roshar doesn't got back all that far, relatively speaking, and what does is fragments of fragments. So Voidbringer may be anything from that earlier time period, or even nothing. Jasnah looks a drawing of a Chasm fiend that is labeled 'Voidbringer', but her research makes her conclude that the label is wrong and Parshmen are the Voidbringers. We seek in the Prelude and some of Dalinar's visions that the 'thunder clast' is a huge beast made of stone that rips itself free from the earth. So likely a Chasm Fiend is the closest anyone can get to a drawing of a 'thunderclast' but that is then confused and conflated with a single term "voidbringer". At the beginning Prelude, Kalak the Herald says that "the Dustbringers had done their work well"... I think what his happening or happened is that there were many creatures fighting against people/Heralds/Radiants in the desolations, the thunderclasts, the shadow creatures a Radiant calls "Midnight Essences", the Dustbringers, and maybe even something separate called the Voidbringers, but only one of those terms has survived to this time and so we get a conflating of enemies into a catchall term. As I think more about it, I probably agree with the main premise of this theory, but disagree with the specifics. I do think that the Parshmen are NOT Voidbringers, but I do think they are/were part of Odium's armies against Honor/Heralds/Radiants/People, I think they were more the footsoldiers aka Dustbringers, thunderclasts would be like Heavy Cavalry, Midnight Essences would be infiltrators/scouts, and Voidbringers will end up being the leaders, similar to the Knights Radiant or some such...

Agreed darniil, though I also agree with pmj that the performance wasn't anything leading up to, but it's effect on Wax, shattered the poor man and forced him out of his chosen work for a time.

I wonder, in all of this discussion, how does the truth that Feruchemy has diminishing returns affect any of this, if at all? It requires greater than x4 stored mass/density/weight to become x4 as massive. Would that affect any of this at all? As there seems to be a loss of energy going on there that could affect any conservation of energies?

Ruin couldn't find his body because of the way he saw metals though, not because he just couldn't see it. To Ruin and Preservation metals give off light (just like to a coinshot/lurcher) and since Atium was a metal, he could see it, but TLR stored almost all of the available atium in the world in a chamber that was filled with other metal, so Ruin wouldn't be able to perceive the atium cache distinctly from where it was stored. At least that I how I understand that plot element.

Well we do know he is an epic storyteller because he plays the "bard" role in both Warbreaker and tWoK. So far the only member of the 17th Shard we know is Galladon the Elantrian from Sel. Or at least we assume that the group of 3 chasing Hoid in tWoK lines up with the Letter's talk requesting the 17th Shard to stop hunting for him...

Well we have this from the Brandonothology: My assumption on reading that is that they are all connected directly via Shadesmar, but I suppose they don't have to be direct connections. Then we'd have different world hoppers talking about how their route is the best... "I can make the Sel run in 6 parsecs" For Hoid it might not be incorrect to also say, "I'm not talking a big bulk-hopper. I'm fast enough for you old man, I can do .5 past light speed" either... We also have the quote regarding Sel So maybe Sel is the Expanse of the Broken Sky? I don't think so but it depends on why you shouldn't go to Shadesmar on Sel. I'm assuming it has something to do with the Shattering of Aona and Skai, but it could be anything as to why the Cognitive realm in the area of Sel is dangerous. Maybe if it is related to the shattering of the shards, it has to do with the fact that the Shard's consciousnesses have been shattered and the Shard's are what hold each realm together in their vicinity? So with no consciousness to the Shard's power it leaves the Cognitive realm in that area in disarray. Just a thought.

I wonder if it's possible to be a Savant when you're dealing with burning Feruchemical storages. To become a Savant I thought you had to have your metals flared continuously for a long stretch of time, and it didn't seem like that was the case for Miles to me, he just always had a nice stead "burn" of accelerated healing going unless he was hurt. If you can become a Savant with a long-long term slow burn, does that mean TLR was an Age Savant?

There are a couple of instances in the Broad Sheet of "unknown metals", both in the Life Across the Ocean article and the Exploring the Pits of Eltania excerpt. Could there be other magic systems on Scadrial that we haven't seen yet? I mean Roshar has 3 Shards and Brandon has said there is some 30 variants on the magic systems. 2 Shards on Scadrial = only 3 magics? Possibly. Just a question. Alternately if there are other metals and not just instances of Atium reappearing what could they be?

Welcome! That's why we discuss things to help each other figure them out

That is interesting Chaos! Thanks for sharing and I for one am really looking forward to that report. I wonder if he was already at or near the limit at this point or not... I.e. 1024 years might be the upper limit for compounded age, but if you take the power of the well again you can start your body over again... Food for thought!

Lol... I'd say the rarest performances are those only done once, doesn't make them the best though they could also be that...

Question for the list: Was Alendi a "double" Seeker? I.e. a naturally snapped Bronze Misting + a Bronze Hemalurgy spike that also grants Seeker abilities?

Will do! Which Annotation does it say that? I was scouring them for reference to that over the last couple of days, but the only one I found was To me that just says that Ruin manipulated events, not directly manipulated Alendi...

If Odium didn't create them, then who of Honor or Cultivation created the Voidbringers and 'hordes' of enemies that the Heralds, Radiants, and people fought in all the desolations? Assuming those 3 Shards created any of the life on Roshar... They sure seemed like creations of Odium to me the way they were described and they way they acted. I suppose maybe Odium just used other creations the same way that Ruin used TLR's Koloss and Inquisitors, but they were based on the magic created by Ruin. If Odium were using creatures you'd think they would have to either be created by him, created by magic he generates, or both right? That is my only real hesitance towards this theory right now, but... I personally think it has more to do with the nature of his Shard and what capabilities that gives him. I do think the inherent nature of the Shard has something to do with it as well. In the same way that some Allomancers are more powerful than others based on "purity of their bloodlines" and some Elantrians generate more power with their AonDor than others... I'm feel like each Shard gained different base levels of Aldonasium's overall power than others. Keep the ideas flowing!

I believe should could hear it w/o the earring once the well had accumulated enough power/at full potential. So if Alendi didn't take up his quest until later in the accumulation of well power, it could be that he was a normal Seeker. Is it a relevant enough question to add to the Ultimate list of Questions? "Was Alendi a double Seeker? Aka Misting + Hemalurgic spike?"

That's not the case though. We know from what happened to TLR that you DO in fact snap back to your natural age when you're not storing or tapping age in a metalmind. In the same way when you aren't storing or drawing weight you go to whatever is your default weight, and yes for strength when you're not storing or tapping a strength metalmind, you go back to your default level of strength. A body's default state is 'healthy' so once you have healed a leg wound or whatever, no, you don't go back to having a lost leg. When you store in a goldmind you go to a state of slowed healing, when you tap one you go to accelerated healing, the default is "normal" healing/health. Brandon also said at the 11/10 signing that TLR's body knew his true age and snapped back to it quickly when he stopped tapping the metalminds. So it's not a purely physical thing, you don't 'gain the year', you're not storing time per se, you're storing age. A better way to think about it would be that you're storing the physical state of your body at a certain level of vigor. For a normal Feruchemist it's pretty usless except as disguise as Sazed says, but for a compounder you can basically be whatever vigor level you want to be...

hehe, probably but who knows with Brandon

Age doesn't, Feruchemy does. The greater effect you want to get out of a feruchemical storage at one time you have to burn a greater portion of the stored energy. I.e. if you want to be Strong x4 you have to burn more than x4 strength, but we don't know exactly the ratio/proportions. Age however is special because every single day that you are alive that you want to revert requires more energy than the day before it. If you are 30 years old, but want to revert to 20 with your atium metalminds, you have to expend greater than 10 years of stored age to get there at any given moment (or however long the usage lasts). If you are 1000 years old though you need to burn greater than 980 years of age at any given moment. ...and every day you live increases the amount of stored age it takes to revert back to 20, every time you use that ability. As opposed to other metals/abilities which only require as much stored energy as you want to use at a given time. Wax is the best example, he makes himself slightly heavier and can do it for a long time, he makes himself the weight of a building and it lasts only a moment, using up all of his storage.