Green Hoodie Mistborn

This is awesome!

Just finished this story... I liked it, but man was it ever dark! I didn't mind the Shades/ghosts, I love that people have mostly learned to co-exist with them... it is such a spooky and weird thing that people do, adapt as best they can to the environment in which they live. @jasonpenguin ... that would be very harsh Justice indeed. i think it must be a dark Shard if the Shard is still present.

One thing to consider is that when we talk about Shardblades, that is from an in world perspective where the characters don't know/can't tell the difference. From a WoB perspective, we do know that there are, at least, 3 different types of Blades thus far in TWoK and we don't know what separates them yet. I think it'll be very interesting if we get to start learning some of the underlying differences that aren't apparent to in world characters with WoR. I hope that is true. As to the OP, my only problem with this idea is that would imply that the day of Recreance changed the way part of the magic of Roshar works. We know that the magic systems are set up based on the Shards in residence in conjunction with the world and the people but that they occur pretty naturally. I.e. no conscious thought on the Shard's part. Maybe they could have change the way it works by breaking their oaths on the Day of Recreance. I guess my other issue is that Hemalurgy very forcefully rips part of your Spiritweb away and the person is never the same. Even the "wrong" blade that Dalinar possesses, doesn't seem to permanent harm his Spiritweb as he is able to change and even give up the Blade. It WILL be interesting to see what if any effect that Blade has on Sadaes and his character/actions. Personally I think it has more to do with the fact that in world character just can't identify the difference between different types of Blades, and so there are blades of Odium that would feel very wrong to an Honorspren. Dalinar's blade is called Oathbringer though... hope we find out where the Blade names come from at some point, i.e. how old are they. Did the Radiant's name their Blades, etc.? It would be interesting to see what Syl's verbal reaction would have been to the Blade/Plate that Kaladin earned initially. His action of rejecting them are part of what drew Syl more to him, I believe, but for the items themselves I don't think we get her reaction to them do we?

Totally off topic at this point, but dang! I was thinking there was something to the local based nature of my thoughts related to Returned in Hallendren, Elantrians in Arelon, Radients on Roshar, possibly Allomancers/Feruchemists only on the northern continent of Scadrial... There still may be something to it, but Elantris is the one that is most localized to only a portion of a continent which is where my thought comes from initially. Though Idris is on the border of some mountains with Hallendren. It would be informitive to see if the nations where Returned appear are only within a certain region of the continent, the whole continent, or Nathis as a whole.

@Wonko do you have a link to that WoB? I've not been able to find that statement in my searches, but it would definitely change my thoughts on it. It would also contradict the Annotations for Elantris to which I linked. I'll wait to see a direct WoB on it though. I agree the Arelon-wide Shaod field didn't exist until Elantris was created, as the Aon Rao amplifies the Shaod field, but my guess is there is something else that was more localized before Elantris that still caused the Shaod, perhaps even Devotion's direct involvement. Rao is an amplification Aon, so it's focusing and amplifying a pre-exisiting Shaod area/field/power that is localized on that region. Again my guess is the power well for Devotion in that mountain. In a similar way, Endowment only sends Returned to the Hallendren on Nalthis (at least that we've seen thus far). If there is a source confirming that Returned show up in non-Hallendren areas spontaneously that would sink my thought as well.

Love this idea... I think you are definitely on to something here with the sentience of non-bonded Spren and Reod Seons. I don't think the Shaod as to do with the physical city of Elantris however... In his annotations to Elantris, we have WoB that says Elantrians came before Elantris the city. Elantris Annotation 62-2 it is true that the Aonic people, when they came to this area of Sel discovered Elantris already created and Empty... which is weird, and I posit has something to do with the shattering/splintering of Devotion, but I digress... We know that Elantrians existed before Elantris, and that it wasn't until the Aonic people migrated to that area of Sel that they started being taken by the Shaod. I think the Shaod has less to do with Elantris as a vehicle and more to do with region/nearness to the shard pool or something like that. Elantrians are in a permanent state of "powered up-ness" for lack of a better term. Their hair turns white, their skin takes on a silvery sheen. This seems very similar to someone who is holding a lot of Stormlight or a Returned, and we know from HERE that Stormlight is Investiture. I think when someone undergoes the Shaod, their sDNA is re-written and they are being invested with some power of Devotion, so while they are being re-written their bond to their Seon is severed, but is restored after the re-write is complete.

Oh, I agree if it is a Physical place that they go for torment, then they could easily make use of Shadesmar to planet hop. Looks like I mis-typed some of that section as it was a post I kept coming back to through the day. I will edit for clarity! I was more trying to address the idea that some of put forth that the "hell" they go to is a Spiritual place rather than physical. If it is just Spiritual, the soul needs to be severed from the body to get there. If they die in the Desolation, easy. If they live however, they would have to suicide or assisted suicide to get to a Spiritual only place. The flip side to that though, I do think their place of torment is physical. But the ones who die would have to basically be re-spawning in that place once they die if it's Physical. We know they re-spawn because they are present for each Desolation even if they die in the previous one, so I'm guessing they respawn in the clutches of Odium so to speak. Now whether that is their original planet that Odium has since taken over (i.e. "being driven from the Tranquilline Halls") or if the Oathpact always had them respawn in Odium's power as part of the pact is another question entirely. New question that just occurred to me... if a Herald were to die after the last desolation and the abandonment of the Oathpact by the 9 Heralds, would they respawn with Odium or go to their final rest? Thoughts?

I love this theory, mainly because it ties characters together. It would be disappointing to learn that the Vedan who Kaladin killed was a random no name (so far). I love the connections and intrigue this brings to the characters and organizations already in the book. We have 4 more books to complete this plot arc, it will be very interesting to see how this develops as many of the main characters are now headed or already at the Shattered Plains: Amaram is newly arrived, Jasnah/Shallan are on their way, Szeth is being sent to kill Dalinar,

When I've read Way of Kings, I've always read the section and quotes about "fighting to reclaim the Tranquilline Halls" in the afterlife as religious build up around the Heralds. After all, Kalak says directly to Jezrien in the Prelude: That was said following the last Desolation when the Heralds broke the Oathpact, when the humans of Roshar (other than Knights Radiant), were still people in "primitive wraps, carrying spears topped by bronze heads." (also pg. 16 of the Prelude). So when the Heralds departed (it will be interesting to see if they are dead or not), the humans of Roshar took to worshiping the Heralds as they had already been doing. Then there was 4500 years of history and development on Roshar, a.k.a. written history. As to the locale of the "hell" of the Heralds... to me both of the statements below say that it's a physical place. "Sent back...", "go back...", "to that place...", "be back...". All of these speak to me of a physical place. We know that the Cognitive Realm (Shadesmar) is all those individual black spheres which can form shapes or transport people around, but there doesn't appear to be fire to be had there from the small glimpses we've seen of it. Looking at the broader Cosmere, the only other glimpse we see of the afterlife that we see is from Hero of Ages in the note that Sazed leaves for Spook: So that indicates a kind of "spiritual place" or at least a state of being that is both spiritual and cognitive in nature because they can think, talk, and enjoy that state. For me the clincher on a physical location of the "hell" is the section in Way of Kings already quoted above: To me, this says that the Heralds went somewhere physically, either via Shadesmar to another planet or to the Origin of Storms in the far east of Roshar... wherever Odium reigns (which from the Spokane Q&A, we know is Braize a planet in the Roshar system): The reason I think it is physical, is because a Herald has to choose to go there at the end of a desolation if they survive. If it was only Spiritual, to get there, they would either have to self suicide or if it is a Physical place of torment, they could travel physically (via Shadesmar or some other surgebinding technique). As noted above, I agree that there are states of being in the Cosmere that exist in only the Spiritual/Coginitive sense, where souls go when severed from their body. I think (perhaps wrongly) that it would not make sense for the Heralds to have to suicide to get to their between desolation torment, so I opt for a physical place of torture and damnation, where Odium reigns on Braize. I also believe/think that the regularity of the Desolations has/had to do with planetary/orbital alignments between Braize and Roshar. EDIT: tried to make the ending a little more clear

I think they are probably on Braise with Odium for the times between desolations. Can you imagine 4500 years of horrendous torture after you've already endured Then at a set time before Odium is going to release a desolation, he must release the Heralds for them to try and unite Roshar again. They probably use Shadesmar to travel between the planets

Perhaps in addition to the slight future foretelling that Hoid gets from the Feruchemy, people in the Cosmere also have something similar to the WoT Ta'veren where they create a focal point, which if you know where to look you can easily see who events are going to spin around? That might be reaching too much and trying to draw in too much from Brandon's association with the WoT, but could be... GHM

Got my copy and read it today! Great book, good narrative style. I agree that Shai did remind me at times of Vin. I loved the oblique references to the rest of Sel, "Svordish" and her running into an ambassador priest in red armor... Anyone have a bead on when in the greater Cosmere timeline this book runs?

Anyone know why he's publishing with Tachyon rather than Tor for this?

Here is part of the Q&A I was at last year on the Alloy of Law tour: So they are linked in some meaningful way. Souls/Breath/Spiritual aspects are smoke when they are severed from their physical aspect perhaps?

Well we have the "Unmade" from the epitaphs which I presume to be Odium's version of the Heralds, and we know that Voidbinders are capable of perfectly containing stormlight (per Szeth), so there's no reason to think that might not be the case... I still think it's simply a conflation of a specific term to apply to all the forces of Odium during the desolations, but I guess we'll have to RAFO!

Well we know that Hoid is adept at "manipulating Shadesmar" so he likely travels with that ability, whether it's lightweaving that lets him do it or another of the magic systems. We see Shallan and Jasnah moving back and forth between Shadesmar without any seeming Shardic notice, so if Hoid is using the same method to travel, it's likely that the Shards pay as much attention to him coming and going via Shadesmar as they do with any other Surgebinder moving between the two. Though with the general lack of Soulcasting going on at that point in Roshar's history, it wouldn't be that difficult to notice perhaps? just some additional thoughts on this subject...

Perhaps, but if the Heralds were molded to their particular ideals of Honor that their Honorblade/Dawnshard represented, would they have been able to give them up as easily as they did in the prelude? I wonder... I am personally awed by the pure unadulterated hate displayed by Odium, sufficient to shatter 2 Shards on Sel, to kill the Almighty on Roshar, and to put fear into the hearts of the Herals of Honor!... quite a disturbing picture to see fear in the eyes of the Heralds which made them abandon their honor.

Since Investiture is a specific term, I wonder what other types of investiture is it capable of storing? If given Breaths on Nalthis could you store them in your Nicrosilmind?

it's a short story Brandon wrote and published in e-format. You can buy it on Kindle, which is where I read it. Maybe if I get some iTunes gift cards for Christmas I'll buy the game for my iPhone...

That is true. What we don't know is whether there is some small loss of the power or 'strength' of a Breath over time as it is transfered to and from hosts. Hemalurgy loses power only when it is outside of a body, so you have the time to spike, pull it out and then properly spike the recipient where it is losing power, but even that power loss can't be significant over time as Vin's earring spike was mostly out of her body by the time we meet her at the beginning of Final Empire, yet when she starts to wear it more often come Well of Ascension she still has the power to pierce copper clouds. There is also the Koloss re-use of spikes to create new Koloss, where they would gather the spikes and keep them in a bag, but those spikes were still sufficient to create a new Koloss without a noticeable decrease in power... Breaths on the other hand transfer almost immediately from host to host so their loss of power may not be significant, even in the long run, possibly the loss isn't even noticeable on a "human" scale and the breath could pass back and forth for decades and not lose enough power to be noticeable. But Vasher does say that different breaths have different strengths, maybe that is because some of the weaker ones are "older" breaths passed around more than "newer" ones? There is also the taking of attributes and giving them to others aspect that the passing of Breath mirrors from Hemalurgy. In the Q&A on 11/10, Brandon mentioned that anyone on Nalthis could gain Breaths regardless of what planet they are from, similarly anyone can use Hemalurgy based on the end of the Ars Arcanum from AoL ("...most use to the cosmere..."). So they are both Arts that can travel, or seemingly so. The fact that Nightblood, and the Splinters/Returned actually consume breath to power themselves is for me and IMO icing on the proverbial cake that the use of Breaths in Awakening is an End-Negative Art

happyman would be correct! Which supports my theory that the term 'Voidbringer' has been conflated with all of Odium's forces since it has been 4500 years since the last desolation. I still agree that the Parshmen are not Voidbringers either. Maybe in the same way that Honor had Heralds, perhaps Odium had the sparsely mentioned 'Unmade' who were also known colloquially as the Voidbringers...

We do know that the Returned's breath is actually a Splinter of the Shard Endowment, LINK SO I think they are part of the same type of magic system, but wholly different from Awakening in general. They are more akin to (if the theories are right and Brandon has said we're close) Seons/Skaze than they are to Awakeners. They do make great Awakeners since they are using the Shard's power more directly however. There is also text in Warbreaker to indicate that different breaths even of normal people are more powerful than others. I think of this as similar to Allomancers having different Allomantic strength than others. As to whether Awakening is End-Neutral or something else... there is an argument to be made that it is end-negative since you have to power it with the breaths of others. Hemalurgy is stated as "End-negative" and "at its core...deals with removing abilities, or attributes, from one person and bestowing them on another." Draining color is similar in my mind to burning metals, that isn't the power itself, it is the catalyst or fuel necessary to access that power. Hemalurgic allomancers still need metals to do anything, similarly Awakeners take the breath of another, and with that their abilities/attributes ("health", "awareness", "immune system", "life span"), reducing them to drabs... and then they use color as a catalyst for accessing the power of Endowment's Shard to endow animation to that which is without animation. We do know from Brandon that you can do Hemalurgy on someone without killing them, but it severely alters that person. Similar to becoming a Drab, but at least Drabness is reversible, I doubt that you can gain that part of your spirit which is ripped from you in Hemalurgy back, even if you are the one to gains that Hemalurgic spike. I have issues with this section for a couple of reasons. The Magic systems of each world aren't "developed" by the Shards, they are an interaction of the Shard's power with the Spiritual/Cognitive/Physical realms of the world that a Shard "inhabits". So to say that this power or that is "set in motion" by the Shard is an incorrect view of it. Allomancy wasn't designed by Preservation to access the power of creation, it is the natural outflow of Preservation and that Shard's interaction with the 3 Realms on Scadrial. The premise that an unknown entity(ies) is/are "granting" powers to Kaladin/Szeth/Shallan/Jasnah is missing the mark as well I think, based on my above statements. People of the worlds don't lose their ability to access the magics of a world even when a Shard has "died". We have the example of Leras dying, but allomancy still works, Aona/Skai were killed, but AonDor/Dhakor magic still worked, AonDor was just blocked because of the Chasm. So the fact that Honor is dead should be irrelevant in whether people are able to access Surgebinding magics. It may well be that Stormlight is simply a common catalyst for accessing the 3 Shards of Roshar's powers. So even if Szeth is doing similar things in use of Stormlight/Surgebinding, he may well be accessing Cultivation's power or even Odium's power instead of Honor's, maybe that is why he is Truthless... because he betrayed Honor/honor for power? Brandon has said there are "30 Magic systems ... depending on how you look at it." Maybe there is only 1 magic system that is interpreted 10 different ways by 3 Shards? I will say however that the Old Magic from Roshar seems to be a sort of End-Neutral Art, you lose something to gain something else.

That is my thought as well as I've said before. I think she is both right and wrong. They aren't likely THE Voidbringers, but I do think they are/were part of Odium's forces. The thing that confuses me is the Honorable Parshendi and how they may fit into all this. Perhaps the Parshendi come from an area of the Shattered Plains where the 9 Dawnblades are shoved into the ground and that is influencing them?

I'm not sure that it's so much they don't belong in the physical realm, just that the physical realm is the place they leave a shadow... As to Spiritual entities... do any of Spooks interactions with "ghost" Kel correspond to any of Spook's visions of Kel or where those all Ruin when he saw Kel? I like Zas' idea that the Nahael bond lends access to more aspects of your "shadow" realm, thus making Syl more physical and Kaladin more... Cognitive I suppose. Side note: anyone wonder if Stormlight is related to the light that pools of a Shard's power give off? I.e. the Well of Ascension, Preservation's concentrated liquid power form shed light, the pool in Elantris which I'm assuming was concentrated Aona power gave off a light, maybe Stormlight is concentrated Honor power? Just a talking "out loud" thought...

Thanks for that link! That is a great answer from Brandon about Compounding...