Rg2045

@Returned then what’s your stance on banishment? Banish the 4 men from your lands. Arguably the best option for the town and the people who are being judged. By no means limiting truly punishing the innocent and at the same time getting the 3 murders away from your town. Only problem I could see would be revenge killings from the victims family

@Experience I honestly don’t know what’s right. Maybe it’s right just to banish the people from the town. They live but not there, make it another town’s problem. Or maybe call an audience with whoever is above you to bring the discussion there. the thing is letting them go is wrong and punishing everyone is wrong. So I can’t say what the right thing to do is. @Returned I don’t think that someone that has the authority to kill somebody can be charged with murder. Like soldiers or pilots that drop bombs. Also the lord of the land is making a decision to better the whole not persecute the people. If you feel this way that’s fine. But better me in power then the guy who can kill. And better me then the guy who just kills everyone. I’m sorta a compromise for the people.

Oh definitely, you have to inspire hope in a unfair situation. If you can make people feel safe they will trust you to make the next judgment as well. I can respect that you feel this way. It’s a moral code that’s taught in schools and even universities with a certain bias. And wile I understand this, I have to put myself into this situation completely with a town or city thats depending upon me to make impossible calls thats as fair as possible to the people and to the victim. I can’t let them go unpunished. And I don’t want to kill/punish the innocent. But I have to, for peace. p.s. it’s nice to have some people on/near my side of the debate. For a moment I thought that I had to play “devils advocate” to the popular opinion by myself

And it could make sense why he never tried anything again. Dalinar was truly broken, and was way easier to manipulate now

1) when administrating justice you don’t punish a man you know to be innocent, but in this case you know you are going to punish one but you don’t know who. So how would you punish an innocent? If you say we simply don’t then you’ll have to unkill/release every man that said he didn’t do it. Because there’s a chance right, a chance that they were innocent. A justice system will draw the line of innocent to guilty ratio. It could be 1/10 maybe 1/100 maybe even better odds. But despite this every system will have innocents or laws made to target groups of people. 2)you said that a kings job is not to make the people feel safe. It is a kings job, as well as his job to judge. He can’t do one without the other 3)I do understand journey before destination, I understand trying. But this is a hypothetical situation that’s vastly unfair to the judge. If we had more information we can make a stronger case. 4)I’m sure three criminals, as the king would be protecting his good citizens. Now I don’t advocate kill all 4 I say enslave them or kill three wile putting the pressure on the almighty. But I also like the highstorm judging all 4 as well. Thank you for wording it in a less controversial way. It’s not just about this case but all cases in the future. I’ll take your word on it but if it was a mistake I won’t attack you for it. also for sakes of argument. How about soldiers on the field? Arnt they numbers on a map ultimately? In a lose lose situation you have to trust the numbers for the best decision. the invading army was a poor way to show that a king is not just a judge. I don’t believe that our modern belief is right or wrong. It just is. And maybe roshar will but I’m talking within the confines of the scenario. and sorry don’t know how to add a quote to an edit yet. Maybe an @ could work

How is that possible? 4 people, 1 innocent, 1/4 chance to pick the right person. So how in roshar do you get 1/24?

1) you are miss interpreting my reasoning on purpose it feels, 2) so an invading army is coming, is the king supposed to do nothing to protect his people? To reassure them? To make them feel safe? Or is it to judge to see if the armies intentions are just or righteous? 3) do you believe that there is innocents in our prisons today? Do you believe innocent people have been killed by this legal system? Is that’s true then even “innocent till proven guilty” is a failing. Wouldn’t “only the truly guilty are punished” be a better option? Oh I definitely agree with this. I’m just putting myself into this time period, where harsh punishment needed to be made because that’s what was expected. Asking what would you do And then preaching modern laws seems so flimsy, people forgo punishment instead of finding a middle ground to make sure that the people who did do it gets punished.

But did he break an oath? He never said he wouldn’t steal but that’s splitting hairs and I don’t think this is the place to have this discussion anyways

I’m not, the question is not “guilty till proven innocent” or “innocent till proven guilty” it’s how many innocent people are you willing to kill/enslave/imprison to make sure that your people feel safe. If I’m king, that means I’m judge, and that my word is law. If I let murders go then my people will feel betrayed. What’s the point of a king? If he refuses to provide judgment and protection then I’ll have to do it myself. Then there’s anarchy. So yes I would not want to kill an innocent man but when you wear the crown you don’t get the luxury of a clean conscience. You make choices that are impossible to make, And you get your hands dirty for the betterment of others and sorry for the double post didn’t know how to put a quote in an edit

If I was the innocent man I would not accept the decision I would rage for my injustice. but as a king I would be forced to not see the man as an individual. But as part of a whole. Like a child, sure the child got a bruise but they will survive and maybe get better because of it. that’s my thoughts on the matter, it’s not fair. It’s an imperfect world and we can simply just do our best

That’s true, and I know that I would have a 75% chance to make two bad choices instead of just one. But I related this to firing squads. Where one fires a blank. To ease the minds of the soldiers that just maybe they weren’t the one that actually killed the prisoner. So yes I have a 75% chance to double the guilt. But I have a 25% chance of getting 0 guilt. And is the man I released is a murder but never does it again, then I could think I got it right, after all I had a 25% chance

Gotta look at why people love lirin especially with how, I’m pretty sure, he’s never broken an oath, saved people that he hates, works under any circumstances in order to protect the ones he loves. Sure he’s hard headed and insensitive but it’s not like he knows that kaladin has clinical depression, he just know how to get kaladin to do what he thinks is right. Tho in a horrific way especially for people that hold onto guilt like kaladin

1. How about 100 for 10? 100 for 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1? 2. we know three are guilty, 1 innocent, punishment must be made. 3. No we don’t, we can imprison them(hurts the people the most due to taking care of murders especially in uncertain times), we can enslave them(at least they are working and lessening the load on the free citizens), or we can execute them(might be best for the people to warn would be murders especially if their suspected their going to die anyways so they’ll be more persuaded to tell the truth to not kill an innocent.) the question is how would you punish an innocent man if it means punishing the guilty along with them. Sorry frustrated I really respect your opinion on most cosmer related issues but would you free three murders to ease your Conscience about hurting one innocent? What if the three killed again? Would it not be hurting another innocent? How about if they killed one each?

So I just got done listening to well of ascension, and one thing that I expected (because of the wiki) but didn’t understand, was Dockson and Elends stressed relationship. so I thought about what kelsiers original plan. Who did he expect to be king, who did he expect to succeed him. who else then his right hand man. The one that works day and night to make kelsiers dreams come true. I think he wanted Dockson to become king of the skaa. but our favorite idealist surrendered and showed Dockson that he didn’t have to slaughter all the nobility. But I think this is another underlying reason that Dockson didn’t like elend. That he felt that he was snubbed the kingship.

I would do a public meeting. Pray to the almighty in front of the people asking for guidance then make a raffle. The first three names that come out are the ones to be executed and the last one set free. I “wash my hands” by putting the decision in the Almighty’s hands. I know I most likely killed an innocent and let a murder free. But it’s a solution. A solution that allows the people I’m over sleep at night. Especially if they are religious

On my wish list 1) kaladin to find a way to stay alive beyond a normal lifespan 2) more tahl 3) shard war foraged or at least honor and odium working together 4) possible “arms race” between other planets 5) I want the back five books to lean more into cosmer stuff 6) mass production of perfect gemstones 7) anti light bombs 8) shard guns And others but that’s just the top of my head

1)true but have this theory because there is parts for it. I give this about a 30% of it being true 2) that’s acceptable,

1) unsure honestly sense we don’t have much information about preshattering abilities but a shard could do it why not the one whole that made the planet? 2) sorry but I don’t know what dor is I’m starting to expand my knowledge of the cosmer so I assume that I’ll get to it eventually but I’m sure a huge part of the stormfathers intelligence is due to being merged with tanavast CS as well as the nature of spren

1)was using it in comparison to the song of prayer honestly we don’t know much of preshattering abilities so I’m making this assumption based on what we know of current abilities 2) as far as I know it hasn’t been confirmed, but what has been confirmed is that when a location is highly invested the spiritual, cognitive, and physical realms bleed together it doesn’t mean it’s a shards location. 3) sorry I meant the origin the “hypothetical” location that the storms are made where Dalinar says he constantly feels the stormfather. 4) I use the stormfathers own words for this. When he talks about way before that he didn’t have much memories because he was a simple storm then. And we know that investiture gains intelligence when left alone 4b) and we know that honor infused the stormfather with more investiture before his death as well as merge his CS into him. 5) I never considered it an issue especially sense they keep saying the powers infinity edit: That could be the case with the above, just it sounded a lot like what Dalinar said when he pulls together the perpendicularly

That would be that they just drew it out with song just like how odiums forces did before the everstorm And it is a mini perpendicularly the way that Dalinar and the stormfather talked about it “the place where the physical, cognitive, and spiritual realm are one” im not saying it’s honors perpendicularly, I think that’s at the beyond, but I do think it’s a good bet that the stormfather didn’t start with that much investiture

First book? It was When I was about 12-13 and I was obsessed by infinity blade, all three games and I was more interested in the story then the game so I read the two books between games and I liked his writings style but payed no mind to the authors then about 2 years later I found steelheart finished the series and was disappointed trying to reread other authors so I looked up who wrote the books I liked so much. Saw that he wrote the infinity blade books and decided to tackle the most epic named book ever. “The Way of Kings” was big (good I’m a fast reader) and looked magnificent. Struggled at first with the book but after kaladins first “big” scene I was hooked and it started to feel like watching an action movie. Started reading more online stuff about the books and author, how to write, and it was just a blast. Now that I actually have a stable income I’m starting to buy a book a month to catch up with the cosmer

Oh I agree that was the weak link in the theory and now that I think of it roshadiums where before the recreance if I remember correctly. So the gemhearrs might have been used to have symbiotic relationship with spren. I’m almost completely sure that the storm is a work of investger but not originally invested enough to have a small perpendicularly basiclly I think that honor used to fulfill gems/power the knights before he automated the process by investing more into the stormfather

Ok so this theory has been bouncing in my head for a good week and I read WoB but haven’t seen anything related to this. but here is the theory the stormfather didn’t always have the power to invest gems with stormlight. now we have some interesting facts about roshar 1) it was purposefully made by adonalsium, no tectonic plates, storm, spren everything. 2) we know honor and cultivation made new spren, but not the listeners 3) from RoW we know the stones remember when they (most likely the listeners) used to “sing” and mold the rock around them, making bowls, swords, whatever they want out of stone. we don’t know if this is before the power of surges 4) in oathbringer we hear how honors perpendicularity is vary unstable in that it’s constantly moving. 5) in RoW we find out that the stormfather is invested enough to have a small bit of a perpendicularly and that’s what allows The gems to be infused 5b) we know its not exactly a shard only power more a heavily invested property. 6) the honor spren seem to be much older, older then the bonds. so the theory time line is this. honor and cultivation come to roshar and start to effect things on their own honor creates honor spren and they form “bonds” to live in the physical realm. The singers hear the pure tone of roshar and are able to use stormlight to manipulate the stone. Their civilization is magnificent but limited due to their dependence on their stone based abilities. humans come, honor and cultivation are happy to see humanity after thousands of years and decide that it’s good to have humans as it reminds them of home human and singers battle. Yada yada, honor is dying and has limited time. With help he makes the animals produce gem hearts(like the singers) to store stormlight and splits himself further to give the stormfather the ability to produce stormlight as well as higher thinking capacity. So yeah. I think stormlight was not a part of the storm until honor was dying.

Well there is WoB that dead shardblades actually transform over a period of time especially when they have a long time owner

It’s in oathbringer in the final battle when adolin is about to die he begs maya to come to him quicker and she appears in 7 heart beats instead of 10.