AleStaar

So I’ve finally finished Warbreaker. I don’t have any speculation about the human side of things, but I have speculation in spades about the... divine side of things. Someone told me the god for this world - the entity who shows someone the future and Returns them - is known as Endowment. I would like to talk about this more in detail. But it was recommended to read this book before The Stormlight Archive, so no looking on the Coppermind for me. I’ve read all of Mistborn, Elantris, Emperor’s Soul, and Warbreaker. But I would like this to be accessible to people who've only read Warbreaker, so there are no explicit mentions of outside plots. I will clarify that this is based on an... attribute of worldbuilding... that gods in the cosmere see infinite future possibilities. They don't know what WILL happen, they see what MIGHT happen. My impression after finishing Warbreaker is that Endowment has been using very powerful future sight to purposely construct something grand and very subtle for over 600 years. If not, on a far longer timescale. There are a lot of red flags in mind. Sorry for the length. Future sight and prophecy are my hyperfixation: 1. Hallandren's valley is the only jungle on Nalthis, and the only place where the Tears of Edgli can grow. This reminds me of something elsewhere in the cosmere. Something purposely crafted by a god, to fulfill a design in the future. 2. Many unfulfilled Returns happen simultaneously, some even operate on a timescale of >10 years. For example, Blushweaver’s 15 years and Hopefinder’s >11 years. This seems to imply that Endowment is a god capable of making long-spanning plans that run simultaneously. That’s always a dangerous enemy. 3. I think it's possible she can "tie together" the reasons for certain Returns. Lightsong Returned so he could restore the God King's tongue, which would overpower Bluefingers' revolt. Restoring the God King's tongue was so important because his death would've triggered the destruction of Hallandren, caused by Idrians empowered by Yesteel's swords. Blushweaver Returned to prevent the fall of T'Telir to the invaders that would come after Bluefingers' revolt. And while neither Blushweaver nor Endowment were guaranteed to prevent this, it seems the latter might have taken extra steps to get close. Blushweaver's efforts to gather the armies pushed Lightsong to take action. Blushweaver's murder, and the sacrifices of Calmseer and Brighthue, were things that pushed Lightsong to be the humble investigator who would sacrifice his Breath to his king. And in a way, Lightsong's sacrifice fulfilled the reason for Blushweaver's much earlier Return. 4. The previous point demonstrates Endowment's ability to account for the machinations of both living Returned and mortals. It seems she accounted for the activities of Yesteel, AND the Pahn Kahl manipulations that were active before Bluefingers was steward. 5. There are a few strange Returns, as if they’re meticulously designed by Endowment. Vo was the only Returned to have children, and he had a huge butterfly effect on the world. Infant Returned seem designed to be God Kings for decades or centuries, and I still don’t know what they’ve all done after stepping down. The Five Scholars are huge warnings. Denth and Shashara were either descended from Vo, or were Hanald royals themselves. Then there's Vasher... just… Vasher. What… even is Vasher. 6. Out of anyone, I think Vasher has a special purpose among Returned. A vital piece in Endowment's plans. Despite all he's accomplished after more than 300 years, including being the Slaughterer of Scholars, he still hasn't fulfilled his purpose. 7. She chooses to Return infants (God Kings) or toddlers (Hopefinder) for long-spanning purposes. Despite them seemingly not having significant pasts/deaths. 8. If we assume the Returned often draw upon a tiny fraction of Endowment's future sight, and this influences their decisions, I think her plans (or at least the future possibilities she has at her disposal) incorporate various focal events. Including but not limited to: the Manywar being predicted, Vasher starting the Manywar, Vasher taking over Hanald, Vasher starting the dynasty of God Kings, Vasher hiding Kalad's Phantoms, Allmother and Lightsong's meeting, Blushweaver's murder, Llarimar "sleeping," the God King crying, or the close occurrence of Hallandren and Idris going down. I remember a moment where Lightsong dreamed of Nightblood, so I bet Nightblood's existence is a focal point of her plans. Or Yesteel's Nightblood-esque swords. 9. Endowment might be capable of making long-term plans that go beyond the moment a Returned remembers their previous life and dies. Vo's butterfly effect comes to mind. Or, her plans can require a Returned to live beyond the moment of remembrance. Denth remembers Shashara was his sister. Either Arsteel or Yesteel remembered they were brothers. Neither of these can happen without regaining memory… which seems like a meticulous feature planted by Endowment that happens at a specific moment. 10. Alternatively, Endowment could just be extremely adaptable if a plan goes “wrong.” Say… she didn’t plan for Denth not to give up his divine Breath. It's possible she was able to change and adapt her plans for Denth over the centuries. That's pretty much it. I just think that even with the small crumbs of Nalthian history we got, there were a lot of strange things that got me thinking a god "ordained" some of this stuff. For what reasons, I don't know. Just wanted to cover all the bases of what her future sight might encompass. Wanted to get this out of the way, before I start my first read of The Stormlight Archive. Hope someone enjoys this.

I liked Warbreaker more than I originally expected. Each arc started slow, but it pulled together after certain points. For Siri, it was when Susebron was revealed to have no tongue. For Vivenna, it was when Parlin died. Lightsong's arc was always fantastic, even though it started slow. His personality, arc, relationships, intrigue, and twists made him my favorite character in this book. I wish Vivenna and Vasher's POVs had slightly faster pacing and more insight into their headspaces. Especially Vasher. But I think Brandon did a great job getting the ball rolling once they intersected. Their arcs had me emotionally invested by the end. Nightblood is there for terrifying but adorable comic relief, so that's fun. Siri and Susebron. Great characters, loved their arcs, and their relationship is so lovely. If I could praise Sanderson for one thing, he knows how to write bonds and character progression. Blushweaver and Llariimar are lovely side characters. RIP Blushweaver, who was a prick that one time but I loved her desire to protect Hallandren. RIP Treledees, even though you were a butthole. Tonk Fah was funny and Jewels was interesting. But I wanted to spend more time with them, especially Jewels. I'm confident Clod is the animated corpse of Arsteel. I’m mixed about the ending. The revelations, twists, and dynamics coming together were fantastic! As always, the sanderlanche slaps. But I think Brandon should have extended the aftermath by a chapter or two. So we get a proper goodbye to Siri and Susebron, and see how Llarimar is doing. I'm sure the murder of priests and one Returned, the betrayal of scribes, a God King that speaks, and the release of Kalad's Phantoms would impact whatever Hallandren becomes. Lightsong should especially be significant in the aftermath IMO. He gave up his Breath to create something unseen among God Kings - one with a tongue. That is very significant for the world. Peacegiver is so much of a god that the God King calls him "lord," and he meets that lord. The core characters certainly wouldn't reveal Vasher's significance to the public. But I think they, and possibly Llarimar, should come together to discuss his past IMO. Vasher is both Kalad AND Peacegiver. The one who transformed the jungle and mountains in two major ways that have persisted for centuries. I am shocked Sanderson just… moved on from that. I've never had that impression from his endings so far, not even for Elantris. I wanted to see the Phantoms fry the Lifeless. I needed to see Siri and Vivenna saying goodbye, Siri and Susebron processing what just happened to Hallandren, or Llarimar processing his brother's death and reason for Returning. I would give this book 4/5 stars. The ending was rushed. Most of the characters and arcs could have used more meat. The pacing could have been better. I still like it a lot. But I think everything about Nightblood, Awakening, the intrigue of Vasher and Denth, and the Returned kept me sticking around. But I'm sure that's because I read all of Mistborn before this. I don't know how it would hold up as someone's introduction to the Cosmere, or something read right after the Mistborn Trilogy.

Just going to put this in the bookmarks. I would like to discuss this after I read through Stormlight (which is starting very soon). Though honestly, not sure if that discussion should be after Stormlight 4 or 5 lmao.

I personally view Sazed’s Shard as something that is easy to use for large scale reality warping, but difficult to use for the subtle manipulation he needed to accomplish after the Catacendre. I think it’s easy to forget that Ruin and Preservation’s Intents encompass so much more than “death/destruction” and “protection” respectively. And that the Catacendre achieved the balance required by Harmony’s Intent. The Catacendre Preserved humanity from annihilation. However, Sazed also made much of the world decay, break into pieces, and pass on. The cities and buildings destroyed, ash and Ashmounts wiped away, the planet’s crust getting scattered back to its former coordinates, geographical and biological alterations passing on, stones breaking apart, oceans and sand boiling, mountains crashing, and so much more of Ruin. Depending on what Era 3 reveals about Sazed’s circumstances and plans, I could imagine the Ice Death fits Harmony’s Intent and plans more than we think. Undoing… whatever Rashek did to the Southern Scadrians, for a land without biological or geographical alterations, is too much of Preservation. But I think Sazed arranging for things in the South would be in line with his Intent. Now as for Sazed having the ability to create the Bands, I don’t see why he can’t. He can create normal metal and God Metals. The Bands of Mourning is just a spear filled with abnormal amounts of Investiture. He doesn’t need to change an existing spear metalmind, just create one. Also, I wouldn’t be so hasty to assume Shards can’t change the contents of every type of metalmind. It seems their metal-blindness considers memories in copperminds the same as text written on metal. But to be fair, that doesn’t exclude the possibility of them directly altering any other type of metalmind.

You know what I meant. Before Rashek came around and properly introduced Allomancy, Scadrial's knowledge of Allomancy wasn't close to what Preservation's plan required. You said it yourself. Alendi and other people were limited to using Allomancy unknowingly. The plan doesn't work if people are limited to unaware Allomancy. The plan NEEDS a lot of people who use Allomancy knowingly, know the power of Allomantic atium, desire to burn all the valuable atium at the Pits, and catch on to the sign of 16 which hints at Allomancy. None of those applied to humanity specifically until Rashek (and Elend much later) came along. Maybe I'm overthinking but when you consider that the Pits of Hathsin, Snapping Mists, and knowledge from the Well existed for several thousand years... it really makes me question exactly why Allomancy wasn't a fundamental part of society until Rashek. Again, you know what I mean. I understand that preserving true history is a frail endeavor, especially in the empire's circumstances. But I think even the Keepers would've had some insight if it turned out Mists were always a part of Scadrial that existed for several thousand years. Or maybe Alendi would've mentioned nightime Mists apart from the Deepness, in his logbook. Instead, for millennia the Mists appeared only when the Well was nearly full. And yet, the Mists appear every night only after Rashek Ascended. Nothing we know about the Worldbringers indicates they knew about atium or used it to delay aging. The First Generation knew about atium and the deal because the Well gifted that knowledge to Rashek, who spread it to the Firsts. Furthermore, Ruin's perpendicularity is not the Pits of Hathsin. The Pits of Hathsin were specifically crafted by Preservation during the imprisonment and betrayal, several thousand years ago, designed for the grand outcome of aware Allomancers burning away all of Ruin's body. I do think A perpendicularity existed near the Well. But not the Pits or THE perpendicularity. Nothing in the story or lore indicates millennia of unaware Allomancers, or some time of Feruchemists, knew of the true magical value of atium. Like I said, that seems very suspicious to me. To save myself the headache, I assume Ruin had two perpendicularities, both unwillingly created courtesy of Preservation's restraints. A perpendicularity in the Well, courtesy of the imprisonment. And one in the Pits of Hathsin, courtesy of the unnatural amount of God Metal. Or perhaps three, assuming he willingly placed a perpendicularity somewhere. I'm not trying to destroy your viewpoint. But I think you're missing all the signs of Leras having a combination of a general plan and precise plan. It was general, because he didn't know exactly how the atium-burning Mistings, the successor, or Hero of Ages would be fulfilled. It was general, because he set things in motion before the imprisonment. But it was precise, because he was actively facilitating phases of the plan throughout history.

That's not relevant here, see: Treamayne's reply. But... technically? It seems that Preservation's plan, to some extent, needed Sazed to restore the yellow sun, the blue spikes, green grass, plants and flowers etc. But it's difficult to pinpoint the detail of this.

Just going to throw this out there. I'm 100% on board with the possibility of Sazed draining the Bands of Mourning. Though I'm personally not on board with theories that empathsize "Ruinous Intent." Though that's just because I think Preservative Intent is much more nuanced than the trilogy presented, of which I think draining the Bands might fulfill. And I think it just might fulfill both sides of Sazed's Intent.

At this point, I think Sazed made the Bands then directed Kelsier towards helping the South and hiding the Bands. Kelsier couldn't have made them. He has no Allomancy and can't use Feruchemical tech. Marsh doesn't have enough spikes to encompass all 16 Allomantic and all 16 Feruchemical powers. And I doubt he gained that sort of knowledge in just 12 years, at least not without Sazed teaching him. Same for Spook, even with 12 years of Hemalurgic experimentation or Kel's insight. The Lord Ruler was too selfish and long since passed to the Beyond by the Sovereign's time. Sazed is the only one with the knowledge and time to make them.

I noticed something similar when I was highlighting my Kindle copies of Mistborn books. I noticed that the form he used throughout most of Secret History was Ati's form with red hair. But Ati's form declined as SH and Hero of Ages progressed. When Kelsier Ascended, his persona briefly broke and Ruin’s cloudy form showed up. Then when Kelsier failed to use the power at first, the persona came back. But as Kelsier foiled his plans for Spook, gave Preservation to Vin, and Elend’s army burned all the atium, only the cloudy form was presented. I believe all this, and the spines/spiders under Ruin's skin, are representations of what happened to Ati across millennia. Especially as the final phase of Leras’ plan finally came to fruition during The Hero of Ages. He was a betrayed, chained, and broken god for several thousand years. Constantly outsmarted by a plan he could not understand. Ati was already suffering and losing control millennia prior to his release. But even after he was released, in the moments he could’ve almost been freed of Preservation’s interference - Splinter the Shard or recover the atium - he was foiled. It seems Vin Ascending to Preservation - something he spent effort to foil - was the last straw for all of Ati’s direction leaving the combination of Ati and Ruin.

You do know the Plan wasn’t just about someone taking both Shards, right? That was the ultimate outcome, but it required a lot of steps to get there. He also needed a successor to take up only Preservation, who could sacrifice their life to kill Ruin. He also needed an army of atium Mistings who could burn away all of Ruin’s body, leaving a brief moment for the successor to suicide-kill Ruin. This is when you really need to question gaps in Scadrian history. - Why did no one know about Allomancy prior to Rashek’s Ascension and gifting of lerasium? - Why did the Mists appear for a thousand years only after Rashek’s Ascension? - Why did no one know about the atium produced at the Pits of Hathsin? Or at least, why did no one know and use their true nature? This really shouldn’t be a difficult thread to follow. Even if you want to assume that Present Leras was as incompetent as SH Fuzz for several thousand years, there is absolutely no question that he was actively facilitating the plan. Even if he didn’t remember the plan. You also need to remember we have no frame of reference to assume Present Leras was completely unaware of the plan during the millennia before Secret History. You either have to accept that or propose that Past Leras foresaw the predestined web of several thousand years of time, knew the exact names and natures of his future pawns, and exactly when his steps need to executed. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? Because that’s not what happened. Just like Present Leras wasn’t floating around doing nothing for several thousand years.

I'm just realizing how terrifying Aaravos would be for the Vessel of Ruin I just proposed. He's a very experienced manipulator who loves cascading dominoes and contingency plans that would give Kelsier a headache. I think that would make for a very dangerous Ruin. I'm not even sure Leras would trick him in the same way. And yeah, if he gained the Shard before Leola's death, I could see him being actively interested in the population's survival and creating a reincarnation cycle for Leola. A bargain for humanity and reincarnation for Leola that preserves their lives and decays when needed. Aaravos-Ruin can exercise that manipulative mindset by ensuring human societies decay when needed. And if Ruin can't be interpreted as Cyclic Change, then he and Leras can collaborate for Leola's reincarnation.

By the time of TFE, he already rebelled against the Terris people. Before he met Mare, and subsequently Kelsier's crew, he was already out to overthrow the Final Empire. He just wasn't as ambitious or competent as Kelsier. He already lost friends like Jadendwyl and Crenda. He was already Connected to both Preservation and Ruin. He was frustrated with the Terris people's isolation and unwillingness to rebel against the empire openly. And yet, he understood why his people had this mindset. And yet, he understood the world needed to change for the sake of the Terris people's stability and safety. This was his Connection to Preservation that represented an overlooked aspect of the Shard - understanding why people want to stay stagnant and safe, and yet understanding that change must occur to achieve stability and safety. But he also knew that the Terris people weren't sustainable under the Final Empire's tyranny, so he sought to overthrow it. That was his Connection to Ruin - knowing that something must be completely removed. Coming to terms with Tindwyl's death grew the Connection, but it was there long before. His experiences during and after TFE cultivated his potential to be Connected and hold both Shards. But those Connections were already there by the time of TFE, cultivated by Sazed himself as he interacted with the Terris.

You explained it well, and it is a bit messy, and I agree Past Leras’ predictions were general rather than specific. However, too many alarm bells and weird things about Scadrial’s history point me towards the direction of “Past and Present Leras played the long game.” I think some WoBs sum up the idea behind the Prophecies best. Yes, the people who Ascended at the Well of Ascension were important. Yes, there were other “Heroes of Ages.” And yes, Leras knew Ruin would eventually break out of his prison, and that the Well would only delay him. However, that was never Leras’ plan. Especially when you consider that one of his ancient predictions was that people could eventually burn away Ruin’s body, so it involves people fundamentally knowing about Allomancy and atium. Then there’s the implication that one of his other ancient predictions was that someone else could take up Preservation, then sacrifice their life to kill Ruin. They’re general predictions with low probability, but they’re still part of a long game. The Terris Prophecies weren’t just about taking advantage of Ruin’s inability to see “wide” into the future. They also took advantage of Ruin’s inability to see far into the future. The Hero of Ages isn’t a person whose likelihood could appear once in the ages, potentially appearing in each age. It’s a person whose likelihood would span the ages. It’s not a person who could appear every 1000 years potentially taking up the Well’s power then both Shards, or potentially knowing the Well’s user then taking up both Shards. It’s a person who could appear after thousands of years. He made the prophecies, set up the sign of 16, and set up the Pits because he foresaw thousands of years into the future - seeing potential events that might occur not in centuries, not per millennium, but in millennia. Just look at what being the Hero required. He didn’t just need someone to take up both Shards: he needed someone whose personality and goals Connected to both Shards. Alendi, Rashek, Kwaan, and Vin were too Connected to Preservation to be the Hero. And he needed someone who could bear the future of the entire world on their arms. Vin and Alendi didn’t do it, Rashek didn’t until he started using atium bracers, and it’s ambiguous with Kwaan. I agree he didn’t know Sazed specifically would be the Hero. But he knew the Hero wouldn’t appear for several thousand years. This is why Present Leras had to hide gems and hints of all the world’s religions for the Hero to find. Not for the urchin, or the son of a blacksmith who became the king, or the Worldbringer who studied nature, or the selfish xenophobe who became a tyrant. But for the Feruchemist who might study religions, and who might respect BOTH stability and the need to decay the stagnant. Present Leras arranged for the Well’s users to be steps towards the Hero of Ages.

@alder24 I’m watching a movie so I can’t make a detailed reply. I’ll just say I think you, and Mistborn fans in general, overhype what Past Leras forsaw and underhype what Present Leras accomplished. I think part of the plan required Past Leras to trust Present Leras into overseeing the present, actively seeing the future, and remembering the past as much as it could. Past Leras foresaw certain distant outcomes that he desired, and set tools and clues in motion. However, Present Leras was the one who needed to foresee which people are needed to make the plan work. Neither Past or Present Leras predict the future perfectly, but they both trust specific people to do the right thing. We shouldn’t underhype nor overhype them. Nor should we say Kelsier was some happy accident that Present Leras didn’t foresee relevant, plan-important futures for.

No, I’m not. Because trying to say Sazed only has one specific worry without any nuance makes no sense. The point of his character in Era 2 is that even though he’s a god, he has many worries just like a human. He made multiple goals when making the Words of Founding - build humanity up from their state of nothingness, restore their technological level to 1820s-1830s level tech, and account for future possibilities of technological progression. Sazed sicceeded in some ways but failed in others. He gave minor hints about aviation, but humanity ignored them because they had everything in the Basin. He definitely gave detailed information about irrigation and fertilization, but humanity ignored it because the Basin gave all the food they want. That’s what he says. But when you look at his precise plans in any book before TLM, and the timeline, I feel like it’s a necessity to think “Sazed knew all of this. There was nothing blinding his future sight or godsight.” He knew about the Vanishers’ activities in Weathering and Elendel, and there was nothing preventing Sazed from overseeing Edwarn’s projects without him knowing. So he saw into their plans and possible futures, and subtly sent Wax to stop them. I also believe this was when he was extremely adaptable, because he had 5 months between Wax’s return and The Alloy of Law to realize Wayne’s role. Not to mention the six years afterwards, before the blinding. Even though he didn’t know he needed Wayne 7 years and 5 months ago, he had plenty of time to make the realization and cultivate Wayne into the perfect Slider. Charming. But this is headcanon with nothing to support it. What are you even talking about? The only words Kelsier dictated to Spook that made their way into the metal note were “Don’t trust anyone pierced by metal! Even the smallest bit can taint a man.” Everything else came from Spook. You know what I meant. It takes time for a Vessel to learn how to pull off the all-encompassing awareness we saw from Leras’ dying days. Because, technically, even his dying remnant has the experience of splitting his mind into countless places that watch over events and dying people. Even then, the passage is written in a way where it seems Vin’s heightened mind wasn’t making connections and seeing the past because she directly willed it. Preservation’s power passively showed her the connections and the past. Vin did not have the time or freedom. Sazed does in the decades and centuries before he was blinded. Same for Sazed towards the Southern Scadrians, the explorers and people in the Roughs, and any Set member not pierced by trellium. At that point. But nothing about the story indicates his memory was always as impotent as in Secret History, even as he was declining throughout millennia. In fact, the story implies he deliberately did things for the sake of his grand plan throughout the millennia. Even if he no longer remembered the plan. For example Preservation hid hints from Ruin in all of humanity’s religions for the Hero to find, and there’s no way he did THAT before imprisoning Ruin. Telling people to survive and making them into Cognitive Shadows is decidedly not normal behavior for Preservation, or normal phenomena on Scadrial. And yet, Preservation did both only for Kelsier. Despite watching over millennia of people dying and suffering, despite watching over 1000 years of torture and pain at the Pits of Hathsin, and despite being the Shard that would most want people to be immortal and live. Not to mention Kelsier has the sign of 16 that’s persistent throughout the plan. He spent 16 months in the Pits. Then there’s the coincidence that Kelsier heard Preservation’s command to survive on the night of Mare’s death, which was exactly the night when he Snapped and escaped the Pits. It should be no debate that Preservation deliberately planned for Kelsier to a piece of his plan. The question here should be “how detailed was the plan?” Did he plan for Kelsier to be the thief and revolutionary that would end the Final Empire? Did he plan for Kelsier to be the mentor, that would cultivate Vin into the Mistborn and Vessel willing to sacrifice her life and kill to protect others? Did he plan for Kelsier to steal the Ire’s orb? Did he plan for Kelsier to take the Shard before Ruin Splinters it, then give up literal godhood to Vin? Or maybe he accounted for all of these at once? We don’t know. But they’re all plausible, since Ruin and the Ire were orchestrating dangerous plans that Preservation knew about. And as Sanderson loves to write, everything that Ruin manipulated was part of Preservation’s Plan. …. Why? You’re overthinking with this. The WoB doesn’t talk about the future. It only talks about how the past is connected the present. Bilming was a blind spot for Sazed for a year. Preservation’s plan wasn’t strictly about seeing future possibilities. He saw the outcomes he desired, but saw he needed several sacrifices and millennia of planning to achieve those outcomes. As you fabled Stormlight fans (of which I will hopefully be once I read Way of Kings), may put it, Preservation’s plan was undergoing the Journey Before the Destination. And he didn’t 100% know if or how the Destination would be achieved, especially since the Destination had low probabilities of occurring.

I haven’t finished Warbreaker or read a word of Stormlight yet. I would love to discuss this once I’m caught up.

“Harmony puts people where they need to be, but then they must act. It is his way.” - VenDell I think Sazed was a genius in TLM. Throughout the Era 2 books, we saw that Sazed has future sight that is extremely powerful but extremely subtle. He put drawings and plans for Elendel's city planning in the Words of Founding - where he accounted for water flow from the Basin, streets wide enough to accommodate for the future invention of cars, and accommodation for the future invention of trains. He wrote hints of the future discovery of railways, trains, electricity, and aviation. The story consistently mentions his knowledge of future tech while accounting for Southern Scadrial's achievements - the radio, the image projector, film, transportation or teleportation with the Metallic Arts, etc. He knew about the Set's long-term plans in each book, so he foiled the respective plans and engineered their downfall with only a few pieces. I don't think he played the game perfectly. I think he genuinely blinded and didn't always know he needed Wayne. But I think he was so adaptable, good at seeing into the future, and so good at describing the future to the point he was virtually managing different universes. He succeeded in cultivating the sword that would overcome his pain and cripple the Set's military. 7 years ago he didn't foresee Wayne would be the hero, but this is an example of his adaptability. Over the next 7 years, and possibly with a vague sense spanning decades, he still cultivated Wayne into the perfect Slider who would detonate the Set's bomb. Marasi started out thinking criminal justice was only a numbers game, but Sazed cultivated her into the potential Governor of Elendel who knows the key to improving the world is to trust and understand others. He implied he secretly mobilized the Ghostbloods, Tobal, Maraga, and Marsh to help Wax's group. We saw their roles in play. The Ghostbloods didn't even know Marasi was his agent, at least not to the extent of Wax and Wayne. And while I think Sazed was genuine about not knowing Trell’s true nature for much of Era 2, I think the length of his ignorance is questionable as The Lost Metal unfolded. As a mystery plot, part of The Lost Metal’s structure was seeing the Set’s timeline unfold. In the process, you see the Set was undergoing various activities long before Sazed was blinded and Set members were pierced with trillium. Sazed had much time to track the plans and possible futures of Miles, Edwarn, Gave, Telsin, and everything going on in Bilming. Especially when you consider that Preservation's power hears thoughts, granting a loophole around “can’t read metal” and "can't see through areas surrounded by metal." Even when blinded, we saw that Sazed was either tracking or planning for Granks' operations in that cavern, and for Wayne and Marasi interfering in Granks’ operations and getting his trellium spike. The trellium spike would then goad Wax into undergoing the experiment that would create the trellium earring, atium dust, and lerasium dust. I know someone will bring up what Leras/Preservation did in the trilogy, so I'll talk about it. Yes, Preservation's plan was long-spanning, incredible, and brilliant. He knew he needed Vin, Elend, Sazed, and many other pieces. And as far as we can tell, he knew why he needed them. But I think we're overlooking one reason it was so great - Ruin was terrible at looking into the future. He manipulated many pieces. But Preservation foresaw purposes that Ruin couldn't foresee, placed tools and clues far in advance, and cultivated greater plans for Ruin's pawns. Ruin's only resources for most of history were text alteration, whispers, Mist alteration, and Hemalurgic spikes. Ruin either underestimated certain paths (Elend sacrificing himself to get Vin to murder-kill), or straight up couldn't see many paths. Ruin couldn't see far into the length of Preservation's tree or see into its wide branches. Preservation VS Ruin was a Batman Gambit that took place over thousands of years, orchestrated by a chess grandmaster who could see the future VS a crafty grandmaster with a tiny bit of future sight. But even then, Preservation mentioned how difficult and unlikely it was to arrange his successor, the atium Mistings, and the Hero of Ages within the infinite web of futures. Sazed VS Autonomy in TLM was a future sight war between an amputated chess rookie playing with a blindfold for a year whose main source of knowledge is an inherited guidebook of chess moves VS an opponent with ages of experience playing chess who is extremely good at seeing the future. And, just maybe, the chess rookie had some insight into the opponent due to the guidebook including their move. Even then, Sazed shattered Autonomy's decades of planning, armies, Hemalurgic knowledge, and industry through a series of precise strikes set into motion prior.

I have a theory about what was going on with Alendi, Kwaan, and Rashek. A lot of weird, big, and clever things were going on there. We know from Secret History that Preservation "made it work" in the last cycle, by getting Rashek to Ascend and stop Alendi from releasing Ruin. However, we know from this WoB that Preservation chose Alendi to be the recipient of the Well's power… 16 years before it returned, but somehow a "bit older" than Vin being chosen at age 3. Though with the weird Snapping and the implication Vin was chosen at birth, it's possible early Sanderson didn't have timeline or Shardic planning stuff completely down. However, the timing of Alendi is very weird. Preservation supposedly chose Alendi to wield the Well's power (if not the Mists and Shard), 16 years before it refilled. However, the timeline comes together to imply Alendi was at least in his 30s after going through a decade of leading armies, two years of Kwaan in exile, and a bunch of stuff about his hometown, Khlennium, and Terris. So at minimum, Preservation might've chose Alendi when he was at least 14. We know from the story and many more WoBs that Vin was always Preservation's intended successor while Sazed was always his intended Hero of Ages. And since Allomancy wasn't a fundamental and known part of society, attuning Alendi with the Mists would've been more useless than Vin's attuning. So I doubt Preservation was making plays to make Alendi, Rashek, or Kwaan get the Shards. Furthermore the weirdness behind Vin's Snapping seems to imply Preservation's future sight was capable of foreseeing Vin's role as the successor either when she was born, or during her mother's pregnancy. The latter, probably, considering Preservation would've known of Ruin carefully manipulating Vin's mom to have children with high ranking noblemen close to Allomantic bloodlines. So then Preservation might've acted by Snapping Vin during birth. That's not to say he can foresee such futures from birth/pregnancy for all people, but I think that's an important thing to note. The final piece of weirdness is this WoB about Kwaan and Feruchemical copper. Sanderson confirmed photographic memory is real in the Cosmere, enhanced by magic. And that someone with a photographic memory would be immune from the degrading of memories that happens when you tap copper. So somehow Kwaan was the only Feruchemist with a photographic memory, who could tap copper without permanently losing his memories, and could memorize pages without using a coppermind. My theory is that Kwaan's photographic memory was orchestrated by Preservation, through enhancing Kwaan's Cognitive aspect. I think Preservation intended to use Alendi as bait to lure in Ruin's plans. He intended to use Kwaan not only as a weapon to counter Ruin's alterations, but lure to get Rashek to hate Alendi and desire the Well's power. I think Preservation intended all along during that cycle not for Alendi to use the Well's power, but for Rashek to do it. But to get Rashek into position, he needed to use Alendi and a Feruchemist immune to Ruin's alterations. I believe Preservation saw into Rashek's possible futures and foresaw the importance of him doing the following: an empire ruled by Allomancy jumpstarted by the lerasium beads, storage caverns to shield humanity from Ruin's apocalypse, hiding the atium in tons of metal. And perhaps most importantly, a tyrant that could set the successor, the atium Mistings, and the Terris rebel into motion.

Oh okay. I will remember that.

You’re trying to look at two different quotes in two different situations, and thinking they encompass the exact same regret. You’re looking at individual quotes without thinking about the full context. Sazed has many motives and regrets running simultaneously. His regret in Shadows of Self is that he made the Basin a paradise - a capital city with the perfect climate, the ground that quickly grows plant life and always stays fertile. His motives in The Lost Metal are to let humanity find their own path towards future tech and the cosmere. Because of he does not, he foresees subtle consequences. Sazed can say “You’ve barely progressed technologically from what I gave you in the books,” while simultaneously having these worries, while simultaneously giving hints about future tech. You need to think about the full context of Sazed’s contrast to Autonomy and Kelsier. The TLM quote from Sazed is in contrast to Autonomy’s methods and Kelsier’s desires. Autonomy consistently shares with her people the things they can access with electricity and industry. Sazed doesn’t do this, but Kelsier wants him to. We can see this in Autonomy’s interactions with the Set. We don’t know the full context but something about her interactions, and Telsin’s plans and budding Avatar powers, lead Telsin to specifically know about and try to invent a self-propelled rocket. So what happened when Telsin specifically tried to invent a self-propelled rocket under a strict deadline, meant to launch across a specific distance? Her results never worked because she lacked the time and freedom to experiment, learn, and repeat tests. Autonomy and her only focused on the outcomes and deadline, but rushed the journey towards them. I believe those are the subtle consequences Sazed wants to avoid. He wants to cultivate a world where people don’t rely on God and his agents to solve all problems or remove all pain. He wants to cultivate a world where people enjoy, experience, and appreciate the journey towards his foreseen outcomes. And so, he gives hints to future tech. You could argue it’s the same thing as Sazed giving tech, but it seems both Sazed and Kelsier know the subtle yet distinct difference. Autonomy would tell the kandra “this is film and it moves,” tell them the general principles of what they could do to invent film, but give them a deadline or place them in hypocritical restraints. Sazed tells the kandra “the evanoscope’s images can potentially move and requires a lot of metal,” then leaves them to figure out the journey. Sazed gave city planning documents for Elendel, but even when he was building what would be his greatest mistake, he was being extremely subtle. He didn’t tell humanity to build extra wide streets to accommodate specifically for cars. He didn’t tell humanity to build a city that would accommodate specifically for trains and railways used for travel throughout the city, or between Elendel and other cities. Elendel’s infrastructure was built long before Sazed’s planned accommodations came into play. He didn’t give humanity blueprints detailing the exact purpose or structure of railways, electricity, and aviation. As Miles put it, the Words of Founding only gave hints of future tech worded in this fashion: “It is possible for men to take to the skies.” Sazed does bestow knowledge of tech, but in a very subtle way. But even in all this, he knows the mistake he made with the Basin’s paradise. Furthermore, you need to remember that Sazed’s minimum goal wasn’t to “speed up progression.” His minimum goal was to restore the world to its pre-Rashek technological level of 1820s-1830s tech, while keeping their future progression (i.e. the radio) in mind. Humanity managed to rediscover firearms, invent (rediscover?) railways and trains, and made advancements in metallurgy. However, they’re slow and abysmal in many other areas. They don’t explore beyond the Basin, and don’t study irrigation or fertilization. Cars and electric lights were so new within the five months before Alloy of Law, they were still “the talk of the city.” They needed to be threatened by the South’s airships before inventing machine guns or experimenting with aviation. More than 24 years later (since before 324 PC), and their photographic processes haven’t developed beyond the first variations of the camera. It’s been more than 340 years since the Words’ gifting, and decades since they really started this, but the North has only made mediocre attempts at increasing production of the Spiritual metals, bendalloy, and cadmium. Even after discovering the South, it seems only the Set has the radio among all Northerners. I could talk about a bunch of stuff about Fortune and Preservation’s plan, but I won’t do that here. But I will say that in my opinion, this assumption makes no sense when you look at the timeline for The Lost Metal. As well as a key advantage not even Autonomy had: Sazed holds the power of Preservation. This power allows him to hear the thoughts of all Scadrians, is very all-encompassing, and persists through the sequence of Vessels. Enough so that its Vessel can use a loophole around “can’t read metal.” Kelsier through this ability heard the thoughts of everyone, all across the empire. And he certainly used it to know exactly what Spook wrote in metal. Vin used this (+ the power of looking into the past) to know the obligators at the Pits were writing instructions on metal. She knew atium was transported by caravans traveling from the Pits, concealed by gold and coins. She knew humans passed into the storage caverns. And we saw how all-encompassing Fuzz’s knowledge and senses were in Secret History, to the point he was always overseeing the Southern Scadrians. To the point he talked to all passing souls for millennia, knew the precise locations (and plans) of various worldhoppers and used them in his plan for Kelsier, and knew all of Ruin’s plans even in his dying days. Sazed himself used this to know humans were in the storage caverns and Kredik Shaw’s basement, and to bring them together with the Homeland. While I think Sazed was genuine about not knowing Trell’s true nature for much of Era 2, I think the length of his ignorance is questionable as The Lost Metal unfolded. As a mystery plot, part of The Lost Metal’s structure was seeing the Set’s timeline unfold. And in the process, you see that the Set were undergoing various activities long before Sazed was blinded and Set members were pierced with trellium. Sazed had much time to track the plans and possible futures of Miles, Edwarn, Gave, Telsin, and everything going on in Bilming. Even in TLM we saw that Sazed was either tracking or planned for Granks operating in a cavern, and for Wayne and Marasi to interfere in Granks’ operations and get his trellium spike. The trellium spike that would then goad Wax into undergoing the experiment that would create the trellium earring, atium dust, and lerasium dust.

???? You might need to give Sazed’s talks another look. He only gave hints about future tech in the Words of Founding, not directly gave tech or too much info about future tech. And while humanity eventually succeeded in rediscovering artillery, inventing aviation, and discovering electricity, they fell behind in many other areas. Sazed considers he made a mistake making the Basin a paradise. He considers he made a world where humanity doesn’t strive for anything or explore. This resulted in the Northerners diverting from his original prediction of inventing the radio 200 years after the Catacendre, staying in the tiny section of the continent, and neglecting to study irrigation and fertilization. They didn’t even invent (or perhaps rediscover) aviation until they saw the South’s airships. He wants humanity and the kandra to discover phenomena and invent new technology. But he prefers to do it through hints and struggle, instead of conjuring up a radio or image projector. Or instead of detailing the steps and components to make them. He “accidentally” let it slip film is a possibility, in hopes the kandra will discover and might even spread it through the North. Heck, you should remember that just by studying the Words of Founding, the kandra are passively receiving knowledge from Harmony. The Words were created partly through extremely powerful but extremely subtle future sight. I agree that this is plausible. Not certain, but plausible. Okay so I feel that bit was wordplay from Sazed’s part. Much like how he said he hears thoughts when someone wears Hemalurgic spikes, but not ONLY when they wear Hemalurgic spikes. 7 years ago he didn't foresee Wayne would be the hero, but I think that is an example of his adaptability. Over the next 7 years, and possibly with a vague sense spanning decades, he still cultivated Wayne into the perfect Slider who would detonate the Set's bomb. That’s a reasonable conclusion. Well said.

Please see my signature for the Cosmere works I've read :3 “Harmony puts people where they need to be, but then they must act. It is his way.” - VenDell I think Sazed was indeed a genius in TLM. Throughout the Era 2 books, we saw that Sazed has future sight that is extremely powerful but extremely subtle. He put drawings and plans for Elendel's city planning in the Words of Founding - where he accounted for water flow from the Basin, streets wide enough to accommodate for the future invention of cars, and accommodation for the future invention of trains. He wrote hints of the future discovery of railways, trains, electricity, and aviation. The story consistently mentions his knowledge of future tech while accounting for Southern Scadrial's achievements - the radio, the image projector, film, transportation or teleportation with the Metallic Arts, etc. He knew about the Set's long-term plans in each book, so he foiled the respective plans and engineered their downfall with only a few pieces. I don't think he played the game perfectly. I think he was genuine about being blinded and not knowing he needed Wayne. But I think he was so adaptable, good at seeing into the future, and so good at describing the future to the point he was virtually managing different universes. He succeeded in cultivating the sword that would overcome his pain and cripple the Set's military. 7 years ago he didn't foresee Wayne would be the hero, but I think that is an example of his adaptability. Over the next 7 years, and possibly with a vague sense spanning decades, he still cultivated Wayne into the perfect Slider who would detonate the Set's bomb. Marasi started out thinking criminal justice was only a numbers game, and Sazed cultivated her into the potential Governor of Elendel who knows the key to improving the world is to trust and understand others. He implied he secretly mobilized the Ghostbloods, Tobal, Maraga, and Marsh into helping Wax's group. The Ghostbloods didn't even know Marasi was his agent, at least not to the extent as Wax and Wayne. Earlier comments talked about what Leras/Preservation did in the trilogy, so I'll talk about that. Yes, Preservation's game was long-spanning, incredible, and brilliant. He knew he needed Vin, Elend, Sazed, and many other pieces. And as far as we can tell, he knew why he needed them. But I think we're overlooking one reason it was so great - Ruin was terrible at looking into the future. He manipulated many pieces. But Preservation foresaw purposes that Ruin couldn't foresee, placed tools and clues far in advance, and cultivated greater plans for Ruin's pawns. Ruin's only resources for most of history were text alteration, whispers, Mist alteration, and Hemalurgic spikes. Ruin either underestimated certain paths (Elend sacrificing himself to get Vin to murder-kill), or straight up couldn't see many paths. Ruin couldn't see far into the length of Preservation's tree or see into its wide branches. Preservation VS Ruin was a Batman Gambit that took place over thousands of years, orchestrated by a chess grandmaster who could see the future VS a crafty grandmaster with a tiny bit of future sight. Sazed VS Autonomy in TLM was a future sight war between an amputated chess rookie playing with a blindfold for a year VS an opponent with ages of experience playing chess who is extremely good at seeing the future. Even then, Sazed shattered Autonomy's decades of planning, armies, Hemalurgic knowledge, and industry through a series of precise strikes set into motion prior.

Hi all! This was originally part of a series of posts that analyze each line of the Terris Prophecies, and match them to Sazed, Vin, Alendi, Rashek, and occasionally Kwaan. But since we know from in-text and WoBs that Sazed was always Preservation's intended Hero of Ages, much of my points were moot. So instead, I'm revamping and reviving this. I will be making a series of posts that look into how each excerpt matches with Sazed. And how they tie into predictions made by the characters within the story. This series will include spoilers for The Lost Metal. This first post will be looking at the excerpts from The Final Empire. This is the iconic epigraph that started it all. Bearing the future of the entire world on their arms is a core that Ruin missed, and it only fits Sazed. It was the key to make him realize only he was the Hero of Ages. A Feruchemist who would tap all the memories from their copperminds, in order to save the world from burning down. Or at least, to save the world from a cataclysm. We see in chapters 71 and 82 of The Hero of Ages, that more than 1000 years ago Preservation hid gems (clues) from Ruin in all of Scadrial's religions. The clash between Ruin and Preservation, the martyr god, the story of Preservation giving too much of himself to create humanity etc. Presumably with the knowledge and foresight Ruin would manipulate the Terris and the rest of humanity, and alter any other text he wants. And, we can assume, with the hope that the Feruchemist would use the world's religions to save it. Sazed bore his coppermind bracers on his arms, and used their 1000 year-old knowledge to save the world from burning down. And to restore the world to what it once was. But I'm not sure Preservation specifically knew that would be the cataclysm. At first glance, the prophecies vaguely talk about how a person will go to the Well of Ascension. The Hero of Ages would bear both Preservation and Ruin. Granted, this line doesn't capture the broadness and nuance of their Intents. Preservation isn't a holy force of good, and is so much more than protection. Ruin isn't necessarily evil, and is so much more than destruction. However, I think not capturing the broadness and nuance works here. When Leras gifted the original prophecies, he didn't yet hold the Shard as long as trilogy-era Ati would. And he didn't sacrifice his mind yet, so the slow mental decline wasn't there. HOWEVER, Leras was still a Vessel holding the Shard of stagnation isolated from the context of the other Shards. And while we see in The Plan that Leras was capable of knowing why Ruin is important... I think the Final Empire's existence, the Elendel Basin's flaws, Era 2's themes, and Secret History present enough info about how Leras might've been without Ati there to counter him. So with this line, I think it might've been capturing a slice of Leras knowing that Ruin is important, but not necessarily liking this fact. And that he might've only made The Plan because Ruin combined with Preservation was a better outcome than Ruin by itself. The Lost Metal heavily hinted that Sazed's Shard is becoming Discord. Hell, one of my theories is that Harmony became Discord once Wayne detonated the bomb. My relevant theory is that the other parts of this verse were a major plot point of Era 2, and will be major again in Era 3. I think a big part of Era 2 was the people of Scadrial hating Sazed for being inactive, and yet all the books showed him subtly planning/acting without anyone suspecting a thing. The Southerners thought Sazed was angry at them; instead, he gave them harmonium and a perpendicularity. We know that Preservation deliberately put the Well at the Terris mountains, and made small amounts of lerasium. What if Sazed did a similar ploy with massive amounts of harmonium and the South's perpendicularity? Which the Southerners put to amazing use. Hell, he might've directly or subtly sent Kelsier to help them survive. Wax thought Sazed never helped defeat each book's threat, but Wax didn't know he subtly arranged pieces for the enemy's defeat. In book 4 he knew about Edwarn's projects, so he sent Wax to defeat the Vanishers and put his trunk of guns at the right place at the right time. In book 5, he saw only one future where Wax would be willing to kill Paalm if he knew he was Lessie, and that a disaster would occur if that happened. So he precognitively decided to withhold it. Book 5 also said he has maneuvered Marasi into a position where she can do good in Elendel. Which is hinted in TLM to be her position as the Governor of Elendel. In book 6 he knew about the Set's plot to find the Bands, find the Hunters' ettmetal bomb, and use the ettmetal bomb to destroy Elendel. So, he sent Wax's group to foil the plans in that book and predicted in advance that Marasi would use the Bands but give them away to Wax. We can presume the only pieces Sazed used to get the group into position were VenDell, VenDell's notes, MeLaan, ReLuur's wounds, and ReLuur's two-century-long journey to find the Bands. The Ghostbloods think Sazed dislikes them, unaware HE was responsible for their mobilization in The Lost Metal. Kelsier thinks he distrusts him. And yet Sanderson implied in a WoB that Sazed trusts and believes in Kelsier. Kelsier's epilogue also implies Sazed put a plan into motion before he was blinded, if not during the blinding. He defended Wax's desire for freedom and Marasi's love for criminal justice. But violated them by winding down their old mindsets, then cultivating them into the people they were by Lost Metal's end. He saved the Southerners by giving harmonium, a perpendicularity, and possibly Kelsier. But they seem to call him a false god. The Hero of Ages is not a human, but a force of pure Investiture. No nation can claim him, because he's known and worshipped in all nations. No woman shall keep him, for no mortal can do that to a Shard. And no king may slay him, as that's currently impossible for Scadrians. I'm afraid of the last line. I don't want Sazed to be overtaken by Intent. I don't want him to be like the other Shards... I want him to keep the nuanced viewpoint seen in SoS and BoM. Taking up the powers of Preservation and Ruin, and tapping all the memories stored in his copperminds. All for the burden of ending the Shardic conflict. Harmony/Discord has Connections - Spiritual bonds/relationships - to everyone and everything that was, is, and will be on Scadrial. The many earrings that are part of Terris fashion. Can do anything he wants, so long as the ultimate goal falls under his Shard's Intent. Difficult to do so with Harmony. I hope Discord makes it easy. Not even a Well of Ascension user is as knowledgeable or powerful as a Vessel of two Shards. Judging from The Lost Metal, it seems that no other Vessel has taken up two Shards. Yet. This line and Preservation's Plan make me wonder... if Leras ever regretted taking part in the Shattering. Maybe his Plan was partly made from seeing or foreseeing the Shattering's consequences. Especially with someone as shortsighted as Ati-Ruin, or as considerate of the long-term as Bavadin, being active. Or whatever Odium is doing. An outsider to his era's dislike of open rebellion. Sazed was the only Keeper to openly rebel against the Lord Ruler, while the others stayed in their secret organization.