Ale the Metallic Conjurer

Okay dude, I absolutely love this idea and really hope it goes somewhere. I love an idea of an Age of Hemalurgy, and have recently had the same thought as you on the advent of Feruchemy. Much like how the advent of Allomancy was absolutely a deliberate ploy as well, probably to burn the atium. Harmony would have a field “day” analyzing these bits of the divine chess games. I think that even without Ruin’s alterations the Terris weren’t remembering their prophecy perfectly, for a multiple of reasons tbh. My theory is that Kwaan’s spiel was one of Preservation’s ploys, and that the original Terris Prophecies were spread out throughout many cultures of Scadrial’s Stone and Bronze Age people. A friend of mine is trying to rewrite a Mistborn AU of his that delves into this stuff.

I just thought about this timeline. I thought the Terris and Feruchemy existed for thousands of years, but a timeline like this probably makes more sense. Do you think Preservation gave the original Prophecies to Terris ancestors or other ancient cultures?

“Ruin would never consider that Preservation could destroy (regardless of the Vessel) since he "knew" it was counter to the Shard's intent. That the piece of information that Preservation discovered over 2000yrs ago; the data that Preservation crafted the grand game to obscure (because if Ruin ever questioned the validy of this false assumption - the whole plan would fail).” @Treamayne After thinking about the many schemes we saw from Preservation, I think your conclusion was spot on. I definitely think a big part of Preservation’s vagueness was to divert Ruin’s attention from the details that would reveal his ultimate goal. I also think he was actively manipulated events as time went on, and had many Xanatos Gambits in place. If not Xanatos Gambits, then regular gambits or Xanatos Speed Chess Is “2000 yrs ago” a length of time that will be explained as I go through Mistborn, or is it something you came up with?

I really, really hope you get around to this story sometime soon. The Mistborn fandom really needs a story like this. And I would love to read it.

I need more

I would also love to hear about good fanfiction from other fandoms, especially if they expand on lore and worldbuilding.

I’m currently reading The Alloy of Law. Once I get to The Bands of Mourning and Secret History, I may like to write a slightly higher tech Mistborn AU that substantially expands on whatever Mistborn lore and worldbuilding I can think of. Currently I think Scadrial’s history has a lot of untapped potential Sanderson hasn’t used yet - workings of the southern islands and outer Dominances, Rashek and his allies creating the Final Empire, the psychology of the Terris and kandra cultures, the workings of the Keepers and the Synod, Ruin and Preservation’s webs of scheming and manipulation, Ruin’s schemes and the gray area of whether he used precognition, the empire and kingdoms of Alendi’s era, the very unknown times that preceded Alendi etc… Who were the previous Ascendants and how did the Shards guide them? How did the Hero of Ages get words like Anamnesor and the Rabzeen? Did Preservation used to be have more freedom as the God of Stasis? Why are Allomancy and Hemalurgy such modern systems when Ol’ Stasis and Death were scheming for millennia? For that matter, how do Terris become Feruchemists? What existed outside the Empire’s continent? These are questions I would love to answer a long-form AU. But I need writing experience and inspiration. Does anyone have writing advice or know any good Mistborn fan stories? Do you have your own ideas on how to expand Scadrial’s lore?

This is a valid thing to critique. However, there's a plot reason for this. 1. Ruin was altering the Prophecies. I don't remember the context for the gender-neutral pronouns. But if his manipulation was anything like his altering of Kwaan's inscription, then he would've been changing the Prophecies to encourage the idea that the Hero of Ages isn't necessarily male. This would've allowed him to groom events to plant his desired pawns like Alendi and Vin 2. Preservation created the Prophecies. In which case, he would've been planning for a lot of history, pawns, and Ruin's scheming. In fact, we don't know the original form of the Prophecies. But he likely crafted them to be vague as possible. As for my criticisms, I got a few. The only Cosmere I’ve finished is the MB trilogy, Elantris and Emperor’s Soul. So my opinions will focus on that. The worldbuilding and stakes of Mistborn suffers from a few issues, especially in relation to the behind-the-scenes history of Ruin and Preservation. In hindsight, the sociology of the Final Empire sucks. We don’t know how it recruits so many soldiers or gathers so many skaa captives, where koloss are kept, what crops are produced on plantations etc… We barely know anything about the Terris or most Dominances, or how Ruin affected them after his release. Hell, we don’t even know how the Steel Inquisitors were damaging the world under Ruin’s command. ⁠It’s hard for me to care about Kwaan or Alendi, or take Sazed’s claims about Rashek being a good man seriously, because we barely know anything about their era or true personalities. We know there were “fourteen lands” and looking back at the TFE epigraphs, it feels like Preservation programmed the Deepness to be much more dangerous back then. But we only have a few sources of info on their era, one of which could’ve been subtly changed by Ruin to present Rashek in a worse light. We can probably trust Sazed’s claim, since he has access to the full knowledge and history of Scadrial and its creator-Shards, along with the memories and thoughts of Rashek. But that’s just it, a possibility. I thought Ruin was much more scary when he was imprisoned. Despite being imprisoned, it felt like he was patiently and efficiently manipulating everyone and everything in Terris. In The Hero of Ages his control over Hemalurgy was scary, but I didn’t feel a similar amount of dread and competence. I know there’s stuff going on like having worse precognition than Preservation, but I think Ruin runs into the same problems as other fictional deities I’ve seen - competence and planning abilities being nerfed for the sake of the protagonists winning. Albeit, on a lesser scale. He’s the Shard of Ruin, yet all he did was affect the Ashmounts and cause minor earthquakes. He’s supposed to have precognition to have some extent, but he’s constantly failing. He goes from manipulating cultures to make Hemalurgy part of them or subtly fabricating Eleventh Metal stories in the North, to completely ignoring kandra who are paid in atium. I know there's something something worse precognition. Something something Secret History. But I can only take so much BS from antagonists being fooled, before it feels like they're being unnecessarily neutered. I don't know what Ruin did the outer Dominances or areas outside of the Empire, so he doesn't feel like the god of destruction. He was never shown or implied to see into the future, so it comes across as him having worse precognition than a mortal. The message of Scadrial finally being at peace once decay and stasis come together, is undercut by Preservation being too much of “the good guy.” IMO it would’ve been more effective if he was completely behind the Deepness enveloping the world, or explicitly manipulated Rashek into committing atrocities for the sake of the status quo. I don't particularly care if he was dying. He was clearly capable of some actions since the Deepness came into the world 1000 years ago.

Disclaimer for the Cosmere works I’ve read: The Mistborn Trilogy and The Eleventh Metal, Elantris and Hope of Elantris, The Emperor’s Soul, Selish system essay I’m finally becoming Cosmere aware. I now know that Ruin and Preservation are beings known as the Shards of Adonalsium, who was mentioned in one of Sazed’s epigraphs. I’ve finally learned that the Dor is the Splintered Investiture of two Shards of Adonalsium - Devotion and Dominion. I don’t get what Splintered means, but it sounds like the people who took up the Shards were killed by another Shard, separated from them in a different way than Vin w/ Ruin, and were sent into the Beyond. Guess the Beyond is the Cosmere’s afterlife. It says the Shards were “contained” - trapped on the Cognitive Realm. So that’s why Raoden always described the Dor as gas or pressure trying to escape! It probably wanted to make its way into the Physical Realm! The Selish system essay said most forms of Investiture reside in the Spiritual Realm, and I guess Shards are the same way. The only way I can see the Dor happening is with another Shard. I guess this means a Shard killed Devotion and Dominion, and transferred their essence from the Spiritual Realm to the Cognitive Realm. The author says the Shards’ forced location in the Cognitive has caused Selish magic to rely on physical position, perception and intent. Language shapes the magic. Apparently because the Cognitive Realm has distinct locations. We saw language, perception and intent with AonDor, and potentially Dakhor. I think I saw Shai use MaiPon symbols for her soulstamps, and the Bloodsealer in a way. ChayShan uses JinDo dances. But I don’t get how location works for systems outside of AonDor. I wonder if this means Fjorden and Rose Empire’s conquests have directly influenced the amount of systems on Sel. Shai said that a person’s perception of objects influences the object’s view of itself, courtesy of the Cognitive Realm. So… what if these countries eventually viewing themselves as territories of the empires erased or altered the existence of older magic. This is all very interesting and complex, but I have suspicions the Dor and Cognitive nature of Selish magic won’t always exist. At least not in the same way. Now… I know that the Dor being pressure probably refers to wanting to go from the Cognitive to its natural places in the Spiritual and Physical Realms. But some stuff in Elantris is still very weird. During the Sanderlanche, Raoden had a mysterious vision of the Chasm line’s importance. He heard a voice in the Lake, which is likely either Devotion or Dominion. The Reod is a whole mystery. Raoden had unique talent with AonDor, and Adien’s talent with numbers came at the right time for Aon Tia. Fjon’s thoughts implied that Wyrn has precognitive powers, something that required pure pieces of a Shard (atium and the Well) in Mistborn. According to the Selish system essay, Devotion and Dominion aren’t strangers to divine intervention. They directly influenced the development of human societies, traditions, religions, languages and alphabets. All during Sel’s prehistory. The author believes society slowly discovered the powers, implying that magic might’ve existed in some form before Devotion and Dominion were killed. MaiPon ancestors believed that soulstone is the souls of broken gods. Elantrians somehow knew about the Dor and used the Lake as a place of worship. Oh, and it turns out seon and skaze are pieces of them, known as Splinters. We saw that Preservation and Ruin influenced these aspects of Scadrian history to their own ends. Ruin to subvert people, free himself and spread Hemalurgy. Preservation to implant multiple schemes and pawns throughout Scadrial’s history, I think. Then there’s the Terris who were probably granted Feruchemy by both of the creator-Shards. I think Devotion and Dominion are in a similar boat, though one that’s less clear because we lack content about Sel. Devotion means dedication, love and loyalty. Dominion means power and control. If there are any Shards who can create plans for their deaths, I think it would be them. I’m not saying Raoden specifically will get into the same boat as Sazed, being the person who takes up both Devotion and Dominion. Or that he will take up one Shard like Vin. But I think someone will in the Elantris sequels, giving an important conclusion and allowing Selish magic systems to have more freedom than before. I think Fjorden’s conquest and Elantris’ mysterious history is leading up to this event. Also, I’m worried about the Shard that Splintered Devotion and Dominion.

"True art was more than beauty; it was more than technique. It was not just imitation. It was boldness, it was contrast, it was subtlety.” The human soul is not a mere wisp that grants us life. An object is not something that can be casually molded into whatever you please. Art is not simply painting on a blank canvas. No person is of one emotion or desire; no art is of one thought; no object is of one process. These are dense thickets with branches and twisting masses of vegetation. Shai is no different. Gaotona isn't. Ashravan isn't. I am blown away by the degree of depth and beautiful storytelling in a book that's only 100 pages long. Everything in Shai's story captivated me at every point. The prose was spectacular in describing the soul, passion, the deep intricacies of art and emotions. Forgery is easily one of the best magic systems I've seen. Not just because of the magic itself, but due to its Connections to the novella's themes and Shai's inner thoughts. Shai herself is not only one of the most intelligent Cosmere characters so far, but there is depth - the perfect embodiment on the novella's outlook on human emotions. On the surface she's a manipulative thief who just wants thrill and money. But she's also a character of regret, honor, and passion. Regret for using Forgery for crime, desire to show the whole world her art, and desire to live a normal life. Gaotona might be up there with Kelsier. His love for Ashravan and respect for Shai added a lot to his character. Seeing his newfound appreciation of Forgery in the epilogue almost had me tearing up. Emperor's Soul gets ️️️️️/5.

This is truly a baby Sanderson work. Nothing about the book is written atrociously, but it lacks polish compared to the Mistborn Trilogy. The potential for something great is there. Raoden's optimism is a breath of fresh air from the grim outlook of Kelsier's crew, and Sanderson was great at writing about the importance of hope and perseverance. Hrathen is a complex antagonist while Dilaf's presence is absolutely terrifying, especially during the Sanderlanche™. You can see hints of Sanderson's ability to write lovable relationships between protagonists. I appreciate that Sanderson gave AonDor a lot of mystery and intrigue, limitations and rules, even though it's a soft magic system. Dakhor is a unique and terrifying system that reminds me of a certain system from Mistborn. But it's not refined. The worldbuilding is very shallow compared to the workings of the Final Empire, Raoden has no flaws, and Sarene's writing is in a weird spot. The book starts off with Elantris as an place fitting for a horror movie, but then the pacing stagnates once Raoden becomes ruler and Sarene gets more screentime. Then the magic systems are very underwhelming. AonDor has several intricate explanations but many of its powers are bumped up to 100 during the last few chapters without proper setup. Dakhor and ChayShan feel like devices for the climax, being crammed inside with brief to zero explanation. If it wasn't Invested in the Cosmere, AonDor, and the Fjorden plots I would've DNF'd months ago. Pros - The AonDor magic is a relatively soft magic system that has a healthy balance of power, versatility, and limits. - Dakhor, despite its rushed screen time, is terrifying. - Raoden’s optimism and friendship with Galladon - Hrathen and Dilaf are the emotional core of the story IMO. - The Cosmere-wide implications present in the Ars Arcanum and Hoid’s post-credits chapter, especially for a Mistborn fan. Who is Hoid? Who are the other Shards of Adonalsium? Who or what is Adonalsium itself? How did the Dor’s Shards die? Cons - Raoden and Sarene are really boring. - Shallow worldbuilding and lore - Weird timescale - Side characters (except Galladon and Karata) aren’t fleshed out - Dialogue, pacing, inner thoughts, and narrative lack polish - The magic systems needed more time to simmer I give Brandon Sanderson's Elantris a score between 2.5 and ️️️/5

@Treamayne @Firesong After your explanations of atium and divine future sight, I’ve came to a conclusion about Ruin’s precognition. Firesong, and one of my Cosmere fan friends, said that the atium used in Era 1 is impure. In truth it’s an alloy of pure atium and electrum. And we all know how powerful that atium is. Looking at gold, we know that both Ruin and Preservation are great at looking into the past, or at least into past timelines/possibilities. When Vin burned gold, she saw two shadows of herself - one a lonely and depressed woman, and the other a trusting and outgoing woman. When she touched the shadows she felt as if she was both at once. Malatium, an alloy of gold and impure atium, when burned by Vin saw much further into the past of other people. She saw two shadows of Rashek - a man with a fur coat who’s happy and content with life, and a very rich merchant. Duralumin and more beads of impure atium than anyone has swallowed before, when burned by Elend’s level of Allomancy, could see a lot. Elend saw a vision of the future. He saw a flash of knowledge, he saw a mind-numbing wealth of information. He saw that his own death would help save the world. And that’s what happened. However, that does not mean it would have happened for certain. In terms of power, this isn’t even the peak of Metallic Arts precognition. Burning Elend-level duralumin with pure atium would’ve been superior to what Elend saw with a lesser version. And who knows what pure atium by itself could do? What would his own future would like when burning duralumin with electrum? We haven’t seen the peak of Metallic Arts retrocognition. What would we see of the past by burning Elend-level duralumin with gold or malatium? Could we vividly see visions of the past, or even read one’s memories? What can we do with other alloys of impure or pure atium? In terms of perception… it’s weird. Atium is definite but the rest show possibilities. At least on a mortal level of magic, cognition, and speed. A person burning atium saw all possible attacks a person could execute. But Vin could somehow, likely because she was the Child of Preservation (not talking about his future sight), could trick atium. Electrum shows possibilities of what could happen in the burner’s own future. Vin and Rashek could’ve become the people their shadows represented, if circumstances were different. But that didn’t happen. Elend was in a moment of desperation in which he assumed his death could save the world, but it was not guaranteed to save the world. Vin could’ve given up hope completely. In terms of power, we have to look at these powers on the level of Ruin and Preservation. Even the greatest applications of Allomancy or Feruchemy, in the forms of Rashek and Mist Vin, are buckets of water in the ocean of their gods. Everyone with lesser power is a drop of water. Mist Vin destroyed Kredik Shaw with a Steelpush. Big whoop. Ruin and Preservation can move an Earth data-like planet millions of kilometers across space, move the entire crust, rise and flatten mountains. They can probably move planets with physical force. They can influence emotions and control their constructs. Duralumin enhances Allomancy and Preservation’s beads amplify it to the highest viable level. Preservation is the God of Allomancy and can fuel Feruchemy. I imagine Ruin can fuel Hemalurgy and Feruchemy more directly, or manipulate souls with divine intervention. They can move planets at FTL speeds, and perceive time and process stimuli and scientific information on a completely different timescale. Far above any zinc, steel or tin Feruchemy. So what level of power would they get from retrocognition or precognition? Well, I imagine they could see the past or memories of people. But what about the future? Well, as Treamayne said, they would be seeing many possibilities. Millions, billions, infinite number of possibilities. We don’t even see Ruin’s PoV, and atium mucking doesn’t exactly work as some people have described. Nothing says he didn’t see Elend’s vision of the future. However, that would be among a countless amount of visions that Ruin would be experiencing and investigating. Elend’s vision just happened to be the one that came true. I don’t think Ruin’s precog was blocked by Elend or the others burning atium. I don’t think he didn’t see the possibility at all. But, I do think he saw countless visions of Elend’s future. Either because that naturally happens with gods, or because Elend burned top-level atium. The way I see it the Emperor was just lucky his came true.

I read the part about Rashek and Hemalurgy. I know the Well granted him the instinctive knowledge that helps make constructs, but he did not know Hemalurgy was Ruin’s domain. If he did, he wouldn’t have created so many constructs and would’ve mentioned it to the people of Scadrial. I know doing otherwise would be congruous with Preservation’s scheming. But even here, we do have to remember that Rashek is just a human using the barest pieces of precognition and knowledge granted by Preservation, who’s mind was reduced at this point. And if he did mention it to the people of Scadrial, there’s the significant advantage of Ruin not being able to read it. But this didn’t happen. I can believe that Preservation was able to manipulate the previous Slivers and relevant pawns to trick Ruin with such bone dry accuracy. Not so much during the eras of Alendi/Rashek/Kwaan and Vin. Based on what happened over the millennium, it’s more likely that Rashek was legitimately unaware Hemalurgy is Ruin’s domain. Rather, the Resolution stemmed from the knowledge of the fact that Ruin can touch the minds of all Scadrial’s people.

Good point about Sazed. He lacks experience after all. However, I don’t think we can ever truly know the ways Shards formulate plans and process information. But, what would I know lol. I have a lot to RAFO. I appreciate you for explaining Shard precognition. And it helps because it reminds me of a character from Worm, which I haven’t read yet but occasionally look at the Wiki. In Worm there is a character that asks a question. Once she asks a question, she perceives trillions of possible futures and sorts them into groups that see the percentage chance of something occurring in the future.

I should mention that according to Sazed the longer someone is pierced by a Hemalurgic spike, the more Ruin can influence them and the Mists repel from them.

I don't think it's this cut and dry. IIRC, the Steel Inquisitors were controlled by Ruin before his release. if not complete control, he was heavily influencing their emotions and thoughts. Many Inquisitors attacked Terris. Marsh was prodding Sazed to copy Kwaan's tablet, and went as far as to attack him during WoA's conclusion. Sazed mentions that sending the Inquisitors to the Well of Ascension was within Ruin's power. He even said it was indeed possible for Ruin to control people before his imprisonment, but it could only be a few people. This is true, at least in terms of passive balance between the gods. However, it was always stated that Ruin's mind was stronger than Ascended Rashek. Ascended Rashek was able to move Scadrial millions of kilometers across space, rewrite biology multiple times, move the planet's crust and change the mountains etc... Terrifyingly enough, mathematically speaking, moving a planet like Scadrial carries enough energy to destroy Earth more than 11 times. Ruin's mind was roughly equal to Preservation Vin, who was stronger than Ascended Rashek and could erase all the ash from the atmosphere, rotate Scadrial halfway around its axis in less than a second, and fuel Elend's Allomancy. Preservation in his weakest form could control the wind, seen when he was interacting with Sazed in WoA. Ruin was personally half-responsible for creating Scadrial. Considering how much Brandon seems to love incorporating science into the Ascension, Ruin would've half-handcrafted its functions down the scientific detail. Ruin's mind should've been fully capable of accelerating the winds into hurricanes, darkening the skies to create thunderstorms, or lighting up the skies to induce perpetual winter. The guy caused earthquakes in The Hero of Ages but they barely made an impact. Heck, at this rate he should be able to make the oceans boil. Yeah, I have nothing negative to say about this. It was part of Preservation's plans so it checks out. Remember that the point of Ruin masterminding Kelsier's rebellion was to kill the Lord Ruler. If he were behind other rebellions it does not need to be for destruction, at least not the obvious type. It could be for the sake of destabilizing the Final Empire, which while it qualifies as destruction is a more subtle form. Plus it would benefit his grander goal of killing the Lord Ruler. I'm very surprised to hear this, considering how important technology is in conflict. Conflict and war breeds death, destruction, and entropy. Advancing technology, which in turn advances conflict, is well within his Intent. Technology does not need to invented for the sake of benefiting humanity on a widespread scale. And with his release, Ruin could just destroy the technology without a sweat, or influence people to use it against figures like Elend or Yomen. These are methods that keep Ruin as a subtle mastermind, while being consistent with his Intent. Hell, the greatest servant of Preservation commits horrific actions on a daily basis. That's still well within Preservation's Intent. You see people commit horrible actions of Preservation in real life, even if murder is part of them. Preservation the god does this. His plan (or one of them) required killing the Lord Ruler. The part of the plan that involved the Lord Ruler's era took place in stability made possible through death and control. Allomancy Snaps based on mental trauma, and the Deepness is Snapping on overdrive by making people sick. If we're talking constructive change, you're right, But he seems to be a specific type of change. He was controlling Steel Inquisitors before his release, or at least heavily influencing their thoughts and emotions. The Inquisitors and koloss seem to have been bloodlusted because of Ruin's mental influence during all those centuries. He was whispering to TLR, Zane, Gemmel, Shezler, and Vin's mother long before the Well was close to being filled. Furthermore there is no indication, at least in HoA, that Ruin's illusion manipulations are taking place in completely different timeframes. So we can't assume that he can't affect many people at once. It sounds like a matter of desire rather than ability. Furthermore, controlling koloss was again, a matter of desire. Vin says it best. He was driving our heroes into a corner to motivate them to find the storage caches. Once the time was right in his perspective, Ruin took control of hundreds of thousands of koloss, while simultaneously having control over his Inquisitors. And another note, I believe Ruin had other manipulations in Vin's era that we don't know about. I like to think he had more of a hand in TFE and WoA than we know. Rashek used a tiny piece of Preservation to massively "invade" the territory of the Well's overseeing God and the other God who's essence permeates the planet, both of which passively counter each other. Rashek knew that he couldn't defeat Ruin's mind or permanently keep him trapped. I don't think Ruin and Preservation's counterbalance is so detrimental that Ruin can't cause more natural disasters. Fair enough. But isn't it possible that Ruin sees death as a necessity for change or life. Like a flower needing to die because that's the natural order of things, or possibly so that other flowers can grow in its place. Sorry if this sounds rude, but this is wrong. Sazed confirms that Ruin fabricated all the stories, legends and prophecies that Kelsier encounter about the Eleventh Metal, which is an alloy of Ruin's atium. Two centuries earlier, TLR built a storage cache that contained malatium and explained it, implying that Ruin had this scheme in motion even back then. In "The Eleventh Metal," the Mists stay away from Gemmel and he says he hears a voice. Shezler, the scholar who conducted research on the Eleventh Metal, was noted to not be completely sane. They're all pawns of Ruin and he's able to speak to unstable people. By whispering to unstable people he can get them to spike themselves or others. He can fabricate text and rewrite it. He made malatium appear to be a legitimate metal over the course of centuries, with no Keeper catching wind. He rewrote the Terris Prophecies to the point no Keeper caught wind, except for Kwaan who was most likely a key pawn of Preservation just like Rashek. Advancing technology in the remote corners of the Empire might take longer, but it should be doable. And I would be shocked if there weren't a bunch of passionate nutcases over there.

I never said this future sight stuff was bad. It's a unique portrayal of precognition and I can somewhat deal with Preservation being the better seer. But I can still feel that certain actions of HoA Ruin contradict the subtle mastermind that used the Terris, Kelsier and his crew, and TLR while they were none the wiser. Holy crap I did not catch that. You're telling that creating humanity was part of Preservation's plan??? That Scadrial's history was in a nutshell, God having a plan for everything??? That is crazy, and honestly beautiful. Though it's terrifying knowing that Sazed has the full history, knowledge, and memories of this caliber of Chessmaster and another respectable Chessmaster. I mean, just yesterday I made a list of Preservation's plans that I could perceive. But this takes the cake. Yes he did. Sazed in the ch. 9 epigraph said that Ruin whispered “certain things” to Rashek during his Ascension, and Preservation Vin saw through the power’s history/memories that he directed Rashek towards the creation of Hemalurgic constructs. It's true that the Well of Ascension allowed him to understand the mind, biology and the soul, which are probably crucial to Hemalurgy. But he couldn't have learned of Hemalurgy itself without Ruin's tutelage. This is why I'm frustrated at Ruin not influencing the kandra until the last minute.

I've read The Eleventh Metal. I always forget to mention that one lmao. For other Cosmere works I've read up to Part 1 of Elantris. Good thing you caught that lmao. I was going to mention the Elend thing before you edited it. But even outside of that I don't think the two gods' telepathy is this cut and dry. According to TenSoon in Chapter 62, Rashek spoke directly to the minds of his Feruchemist friends during the Ascension. This breaks the "rules" of telepathy just like Vin speaking to Elend's mind. It's worth nothing that Ruin was actively blocking the majority of Vin's mental communication. It was also revealed by Sazed in the epilogue's epigraph that Preservation got Vin to stop wearing the earring when she was a child. In the chapter 75 epigraph, Sazed likewise reveals that Ruin didn't just use Hemalurgic spikes to send illusions, speak to minds, or control people. He also used them to warp thoughts and make them overlook oddities, such as Vin being compelled to keep and wear her earring. This means that Preservation can accomplish the same feat by "feeding" the Mists to people. So... the equivalent for Preservation is seeing events that lead to the status quo being maintained?

How do I quote sections of a reply? If I try to highlight and click “quote this” nothing happens.

Like I said I’ve only come off the trilogy and now Elantris Part 1. So I don’t know how the Cosmere stuff play into Era 1. I don’t think Ruin and Preservation are as impotent as you think. Sazed in the ch. 9 epigraph said that Ruin whispered “certain things” to Rashek during his Ascension, and Preservation Vin saw through the power’s history/memories that he directed him toward the creation of Hemalurgic constructs. While afterwards Rashek couldn’t create any other constructs. According to Sazed by the time of Preservation’s death - “Gone were the days when Preservation could turn away an Inquisitor with a bare gesture, gone—even—were the days when he could strike a man down to bleed and die.” This implies that in earlier eras of Scadrial, Preservation could change the world and kill people if it meant preserving the status quo. Which makes a lot more sense than him being impotent stasis. Rashek with a tiny piece of Preservation changed the world on planetary orbital, geographical, biological, and atmospherical scales. Ruin is intelligent decay able to build things up if it meant he could knock down things. Even the divine bargain is an example of Ruin doing this. Thanks for explaining the atium!

Hello there! Sorry for the late reply. Been busy with summer break relaxation, job searching, and reading Elantris. Been struggling with that one but the good news is that I just finished Part 1. Hope the pacing of Elantris improves from now on. Your replies (on here and my recent thread) make me feel better about Ruin's precognition. So he's not bad at precognition, just bad among his peers? Like an NFL or NBA player compared to college players? I guess that makes sense. Hopefully I see more precog in the rest of the Cosmere. Though I have to wonder how far did Preservation see the future? His plan did succeed, but Preservation's competency depleted over the millennia while Ruin was changing text and influencing people all over the world. And I'm fairly certain weird things were going on with Marsh resisting Ruin's control. Thank you for the detailed explanation. I didn't think about the possibility of using Feruchemists as Inquisitors. I don't like that Ruin didn't go that route, and a part of me thinks he was a smarter Chessmaster when "imprisoned" in the Well. But, oh well. Though I won't lie, part of Ruin's "incompetence" towards the end of HoA feels like plot convenience. That first part feels like plot convenience. I now know there's future sight blocking which I guess came from the grand burning of atium, and Preservation having better future sight than Ruin, but it feels somewhat wishy-washy. When he was imprisoned Ruin was a subtle mastermind manipulating religions, influencing TLR and the unstable, guiding Kelsier into creating his rebellion, and planting spikes all over the place. He gave instructions to TLR on how to create Inquisitors, when their Canton wasn't even created until the 6th century. Even after being released he was pushing Vin and Elend into corners to drive them into finding the storage caverns. It feels like Ruin suddenly not using the kandra or foreseeing the possibility of his death was solely written so that Vin can succeed.

Ruin was an amazing villain, but he could’ve done more. One of the only flaws I have with The Hero of Ages is that Ruin didn’t manipulate kandra. I understand he’s a god trying to destroy the world, but he TAUGHT Rashek how to use Hemalurgy. Ruin was essentially responsible for creating kandra. And we saw how he efficiently he controlled koloss and Inquisitors, and those who’ve had spikes for exponentially less time. The kandra should’ve been his pawns throughout their 1000 years of life, manipulated them in a similar way as TLR and Vin. I imagine he could influence the Generations to grow more complacent, OreSeur and TenSoon to become relatively rebellious kandra, and KanPaar to start a revolt. Even if the kandra still pull out their spikes (which makes no sense imo), at least this enhances the threat of Ruin. I was discussing with a friend about Ruin’s influence on the world of Scadrial, and we agreed that Ruin should’ve done more with his Apocalypse. It would’ve been better if Ruin enveloped Scadrial in more natural disasters - floods, hurricanes, more earthquakes, tsunamis, thunderstorms, blizzards etc… Granted, it’s possible Ruin didn’t create more natural disasters because he wants humanity alive to benefit his search for atium. I just realized that Ruin’s nigh-omniscience seems more limited than it should. The amateur Vin could sense the humans that are within the storage caverns. The amateur Sazed could sense the inhabitants within the metal-covered Trustwarren and storage caverns, protect them and move them around. According to a WoB he healed everyone in them. I know that Ruin could probably see through places like Fadrex's cavern, considering he interacted with Vin, But it sounds… off that Ruin couldn’t sense his atium, or at least not be aware of the Kandra Homeland. Also, I don’t 100% like that Ruin’s personality is mainly a representation of death and entropy. I understand he’s supposed to be a force of change, so I wish his actions _showed_ a side focused on change. We know he guided Kelsier towards crafting his rebellion, so he could’ve been responsible for other rebellions throughout history. The Crescent and Remote Dominances, and the Southern islands, seems to have been outside of Empire control. So Ruin could’ve taught them how to make advancements in technology. Since he’s a being of change, perhaps his goals could remain the same but his _personality_ is more neutral and calmer than canon. I don’t think Ruin is truly malicious, but his gloating(ugh) comes across that way. And according to folks over here, Ruin is one of the worst Shards at seeing the future. I have a big problem with that. Ruin is supposed to hasten and represent the inevitabilities of death and entropy and change. Preservation only wants to keep the universe the same. Even if Ruin is worse at precognition there shouldn’t be a big gap. Though I can’t speak about the Shards until I read more, so hopefully there are Shards that justify Brandon’s perspective on Ruin’s precognition.

Why didn’t Ruin foresee his death? Based on the powers of atium and electrum, I’m pretty sure one of Ruin and Preservation’s powers is precognition. According to some friends who are well-versed in the Cosmere, when Elend burned atium and duralumin he saw Preservation’s plan - that Vin would kill Ruin and save the world. If I understand the Metallic Arts correctly, their powers are fueled by tiny pieces of Ruin and Preservation’s powers. I would’ve expected Ruin’s precognition to be far beyond that of Elend. Why didn’t Ruin foresee Preservation’s plan or his death? I haven't read Cosmere aside from the Mistborn trilogy and part of Elantris.

Thank you so much! I'll be sure to share my takes on other Cosmere characters in the future!

I've only read Mistborn Era 1, but I am heavily invested into the concept of Scadrial's gods. The Nowhere King's song from Centaurworld (which I am currently watching) inspired me to make renditions that center around AU interpretations of Ruin and Preservation. The AU uses these concepts: Ruin and Preservation being two main figures of the Steel Ministry religion. I imagine the Lord Ruler's role would be similar to Jesus, Islamic prophets, or Hindu avatars. I also imagine the gods' manipulations would be even greater. Ruin could breed serial killers and more rebellions, or Preservation could implant more explicit preparations. Mistborn's plot is more akin to epic fantasy, with the war between the gods encompassing more of Scadrial's history and cultures. There are a few more alterations. For these Lullabies, imagine Ruin as the power of entropy, inevitable decay/death, and change. He still wants to ensure the inevitable death of the Universe's things, but also wants to push people to constantly embrace uncertainty and change. The AU interpretation is just as intelligent as canon Ruin, if not more, but he "understands" emotions such as love. Preservation is more or less the same as canon. I imagine these Lullabies would be sung by people who worship them, or have been touched by their influence or magic. Ruin's Lullaby could be sung by Inquisitors like Marsh, the koloss, and kandra that AU Ruin would subtly turn insane. Preservation's Lullaby is sung by Rashek and loyal kandra. Lullaby of the Changing Tides Hush now Rest all you little ones Walk now Into the middle of glory Singing and laughter will shine Changing stars Follow the Decaying King When his bargain comes Our time is nigh Quiet. Crawl to the in-between. Silent, secretive feeling of Fearsome hatred of a soul wasting its time You will bring joy to the Decaying King When he sees the light leaving your eyes Lullaby of the Perfect Note Hush now Hold all you little ones Stand now Into the middle of beauty Despair and aging will die Painless sleep Follows the Calming King When his stasis comes Our time is abroad Quiet. Stay from the in-between. Silent, smothering feeling of Loving kindness that reaches the stars You will bring joy to the Calming King When he sees the light stay in your eyes