grinachu

it's here. Hallelujah. I had a fright and nearly went to sleep thinking it would come tomorrow morning. 

And here I am, ready to go to Barnes & Noble and buy the book for other people, just as long as they let me have my own early! I am doing a good deed here, people, spreading the Word of Brandon (seewhatididthere?) to the unenlightened, I deserve to have my copy early.

 I called Barnes and Noble in NYC and they told me they would release it tomorrow morning, no earlier. Anyone else know where in NYC one can get a copy right away? PM me if you prefer....

1. It is in english. 

2. You probably need to use a VPN to buy the book from amazon.jp. 

3. You may be charged foreign currency fees on your credit card. 

4. You can choose to have the website in english (there is an option at the top)

5. I haven't bought it because I don't want to pay the associated fees for my credit card, but I have no reason to believe you cannot do so, although frankly it might be a bit of a hassle.

Amazon early delivery today! Excited because I just listened to the Ch 7 on Tor.....now I can read it! Yipeee!!!

is this the ebook?

amazon.jp has released the book already. 

For UK Bristolians, there were a few copies on the shelves in a prominent city centre bookshop over the weekend. One less after I left of course.

Ugh. I'm not in the country. 

Why does amazon UK claim the kindle edition is releasing on 6th March? What's up with that? Don't they know ALL fantasy books are to be released first in the UK because we are that much cooler...

Does anyone know if the book will be released on kindle on amazon.jp in 15.5 hours, i.e. midnight March 3 in Japan? It's definitely listed.

No, it has not.

The kindle version doesn't have it yet? I deleted my original copy and redownloaded but I didn't get it. 

I can't think of any law that would make it illegal to sell them early.  On the other hand from my expereince with the local B&N there appears to be a contractual restriction/penalty.  For most books I don't think publishers or stores would care but this one is obviously a big deal to them.

It's increasingly the case for most anticipated fantasy releases. I tried to pick up Emperor of Thorns early at a bookshop in London but they wouldn't have it, despite having it in stock. On the other hand, amazon.de consistently delivers ahead of time. 

Yeah but I already ordered it and I don't want to pay again

you can cancel your order,surely?

So it's not released at 12:00 EST across the board? I'd be interested to know how Amazon manages its digital content release dates; it's possible (as with Skyrim) that if you use an ebook reader to connect to Amazon through a VPN from a different country that they would allow you to access the book. Given the nature of how one orders (through regional amazon websites), I unfortunately doubt that this is the case. Might be worth trying though.

I don't know that you need to do all that. I bought Dangerous Women from amazon.co.uk directly with a US credit card. 

I too would be interested if anyplace in NYC has it in.  Please spread the word. I'm going to buy a kindle version anyway on release night. 

Incidentally, for those for whom hours really count and who want an ebook: you can order it online from amazon.co.uk at 12.00 GMT which is 4.5 hours earlier than amazon.com ebook. 

so I wanted to know whether Brandon has somewhere stated or other boarders have any theories as to when Tanavast died? It is open to multiple interpretations because one the hand there is a chapter title "Honor is Dead" which could carry the inference it happened fairly recently. On the other hand, the visions stop at the Day of Recreance, and further the voice in the stars calls Kaladin "child of one long since departed", which the consensus seems to mean is Tanavast. So when did he die?

I've given this a little thought in the past, but as has been remarked by others, we simply know too few to guess at the rest. However, now that I've told you it's useless to have an opinion on the matter, I'd like to give you mine.

On the "Shard/CounterShard" line of thought, I agree that Devotion would, of the Shards known currently, be the best match for Odium. In the first place, there is the previously mentioned supporting Word of Brandon that, at least in this case, Aona's Shard (Devotion) is a synonym of love. Now, I can understand all the arguments for Honor and others, but honestly, when looking for an antonym to hate, if love is an option, there is little sense in considering much else. Furthermore, the most cogent defense for Honor - a reinterpretation of the meaning of "Odium" from hatred to worthy of hatred - has two fatal flaws: One, such a definition would necessitate a reciprocal meaning for Honor, as "worthy of loyalty." Unfortunately, Honor has not given any indication that this is the case. Rather, he has, as would be predicted by the conventional definition, rewarded any and all honorable actions. The second hole in the idea is simply that "worthy of hatred" does not seem - in my own opinion - to convey the characteristic singularity of purpose found in the other Shards. What sort of decisions would an "Odious" person be inclined to make?

Incidentally, the recategorization of Devotion as love resolves a different issue that I'd been considering: the motivation of Devotion seems too vague. After all isn't Preservation "devoted" to preserving things? If simply being devoted to something were enough, then holding literally any other Shard would put you at the top of the list for Devotion's favored servants. Furthermore, the opposite of devotion would be ambivalence, implying that its Shardholder would have to... fervently not care about things. I'm not exactly sure how you would go about that.

Returning to the topic at hand, I feel that we have too easily allowed ourselves to be duped into thinking that Devotion and Dominion are counterparts, simply because they are on the same Shardworld. While I acknowledge that there is admittedly some friction between their purposes, I do not believe that the two are in direct opposition. I see a much greater enmity between Dominion and Endowment. Endowment is fundamentally oriented toward giving indiscriminately, relinquishing its power wherever it can. Dominion, on the other hand, is about conquest and acquisition, seizing and taking control of anything and everything. These two - giving and taking - seem to be fairly contradictory to me. Furthermore, this means that Devotion must needs look elsewhere for a match... See above.

Based on the completely indefensible assumption that each Shard must have a polar opposite, I have done my best to throw together the following:

Preservation vs. Ruin

Odium vs. Devotion

Endowment vs. Dominion

Honor vs. Deception/Treachery/Corruption/Treason/Cowardice/etc.

Unfortunately, Cultivation's name, out of context, tells us frustratingly little that can actually be trusted. She could stand for anything from life and the boundless growth of nature to the chaining of nature and the progress of civilization. As such, I do not feel confident enough to speculate as to her opposite.

Lastly, I would like to affirm the conviction that in a world this complex, it hardly seems likely that these Shards are simply a random collection of attributes. In fact, I would like to take the notion even further. I feel that Brandon, with his notorious reputation for complex, yet somehow beautifully unified worldbuilding, would not settle for simply sorting the Shards into a number of (in many of the above theories, pretty much arbitrary) categories. It seems far more probable that each individual Shard was chosen very carefully as a true, elemental aspect of reality, such that when taken as a whole, they take on a unified centrality. I'm not sure that the way I worded that will make sense to be anyone but me, so consider the following analogy: I feel that it is far more likely that the Shards would be Red, Blue, and Yellow, as opposed to a random assortment of Green, Yelllow, and Purple or a loosely categorized system of Red with Orange and Blue with Purple. In a sense, I'm saying that even the most rigorous systems suggested so far seem a little too haphazardly put together for Brandon. (Also, the color theory referenced in this analogy is unfounded, simplistic, and extremely outdated. However, despite all of this, it is almost invariably still taught in public elementary schools, so it made a useful bit of common ground upon which to base my explanation. Please do not perpetuate its academic use.)

The most interesting shard so far is Cultivation because we do know that she has influenced cultures like Shinovar and the Horneaters and we know a fair amount about her influence. Insofar as she would have a polar opposite it would be something like degradation or corruption. Something slimy and oily and polluting. I think while not all shards have an opposite there is a definite pairing between them. Devotion and Odium are opposites, as Ruin and Preservation were opposites. I think since Honor's power was in binding things, he and Cultivation together were able to get Odium to agree upon a deal. When those Honor invested with its powers, abandoned the Oathpact, Honor itself became vulnerable and fell to Odium. Cultivation still lives but cannot face Odium herself alone. Jezrien holds a sliver of Honor and reads the storms seeking to difuse Honor's power by way of stormlight but is slowly failing. Meanwhile Odium is getting stronger because of perpetual war in Roshar and is seeking to finally destroy all of Roshar by himself. By uniting the Alethi and then seeking to united humanity, Dalinar is actually strenghtening Odium's hand. It is by murder and warfare and pursuing the Thrill that Odium's power is actually dissipated from his hands.

I disagree with this theory, because I think it neglects an important part of Vorin theology.

We have confirmation from Dalinar's Almighty granted visions and from plenty of in-world sources that to seek to know the future is Forbidden in Vorinism. We don't know exactly why, although it seems that Honor and Cultivation both do a little bit of future prediction themselves.

When the Sunmaker unmasked the Hierocracy, he specifically found that all the prophecies that the priests claimed to know were false. If Sunmaker had remade Vorinism under the influence of Odium or what have you, then we wouldn't expect an independent corroboration between the Almighty's injunction against predicting the future and Sunmaker's declaration that the prophecies were false.

I think there's a lot more going on in terms of religious change and Vorinism than we understand. In particular, I think the Heralds have been around and may well have influenced the development of Vorinism independently. Certainly the Jezrien heresy (the one that worships him as the only God) among the Emul, may have been planted by him independently.

Why do you think stone is sacred to the Shin? I asked Peter about it, and he said he didn't know, but it seems like something that would be pretty important.

Maybe it has something to do with thunderclasts ripping themselves free from stone? I know this sounds like a pretty counter-intuitive example but if the Shin believe that stone is alive in some way, that might account for its sacred nature.

I think Szeth will end up a prisoner if there is a fight between him and Kaladin.

I don't think that the fabrials "use up" the spren. The stormlight is definitely expended in use, but the spren are still there as far as I know; for instance, the soulcasting fabrials seem to have the ability to work indefinitely, given a supply of stormlight. Given the nature of spren in their universe, I'm not sure just how bad this relationship really is, ethically. How many spren are really sapient?

hmmm...I think the point is that spren have the capacity to become sapient no?

Anyway it seems like technology based on spren and stormlight might be hit by the death of the Highstorms.

In Mistborn, it seems like the technology is developing away from magic, whereas in Stormlight Archives the "technology" is a gradual rediscovery of ancient magic. The distinction between technology and magic isn't very important anyway.

http://www.graspingforthewind.com/2010/09/16/interview-brandon-sanderson-on-the-way-of-kings/

This interview is what I was thinking of, but I am sure there are others. What's interesting is not just first few comments but also the later reference to Golden Age Rome and Renaissance Italy.

Two things about magic and technology. Whatever the precise mechanism of the Knights Radiant was, it clearly involved a bond with a spren, whether the Nahel or Honorspren. What is very different about fabrials is that they capture a spren and use it up. That is, at least as I understand it, a much more violative relationship.

The second point is while the techology is obviously dependent on stormlight, the end of the Highstorms will presumably mean the end of stormlight no? And that is a frightening thought for Roshar....

I don't think so. Brandon has spoken many times about how he wants a book that's about the reintroduction of magic, about it's birth rather than it's death (like in LOTR, or WoT).

I thought he had said he wants a book about the emergence of technoloogy. Any reference?

Well, I like this idea too. Too many good ideas.

yeah great ideas all. I personally think the link with Jezrien is pretty crucial. Brandon has said Jezrien is around and he has a role to play in the books, Brandon has also said that Tanavast was the original holder of Honor and it sounds like "long since departed" means Honor has been dead for a while (*although intriguingly it could also mean someone who has left roshar completely...hmmm). We are told the storms are dying.

So two thoughts to share.

1. the strange natural phenomena of Scadrial is later explained as the The Lord Ruler attempting to make the planet habitable. Dalinar's vision seem to place him in a world pre- highstorms, and pre retreating grass etc. Could it be Jezrien took up Honor after Tanavast died and found a way to change the planet ecologically to fit the storms?

2. If the Jezrien is the aged face in the storm and the highstorms are dying, could it be the title actually refers to the end of stormlight completely in Roshar? Whatever happens at the end, the highstorms die, we move into an age of technology and the stormlight archive refers to the period where this process ended?

I disagree because I see no need for protection at all, much less for Cultivation to be said protector. In addition to those points made by others here, the theory I currently subscribe to is that it was during this period that Odium/Rayse left the planet on his excursion to Sel. Thus, there would obviously be a sudden decrease in the offensive.

Would everyone please stop comparing the Honorblades and Shardblades to the Dawnshards? There is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that the Dawnshards are even weapons at all, and a quick skim of this very topic will find dozens of points to the contrary.

I had not yet considered the dichotomy of Odium/Rayse's actions, but it is indeed bewildering. It has been stated outright numerous times that he has decided to take a more subtle aproach to his conquest of Roshar. Why, then, the sudden cataclysm of the True Desolation?

I think you misread my post. I never said that dawnshards were weapons, only that Honor had made weapons of great power and so his reference to dawnshards in particular when discussing opposing Odium through a champion rather than those weapons suggests that dawnshards have a particular power or potency those weapons don't have. As I already suggested, my theory is that dawnshards are particlar artifacts which can be used to bind or enslave.

Another surmise. The owner weilder/bearer of the dawnshard was clearly in Urithiru when he was holding the shard, and it sounds like he was injured. If so, was there a particular reason he headed to the temple? maybe dawnshards are especially potent in temples dedicated to Honor?

The answer to your last question might be that Odium is now so confident of his power he can do something that will simply wipe out the world of men? It seems like what Odium did in Sel at least resulted in a giant earthquake and the True Desolation sound similar. Maybe that's his signature move?

Still the time frame is about right for the current reign of peace to have begun when Odium/Rayse left Roshar. Additionally, a few hundred years could easily be brief to a Shard, so we have to consider that.

well one has to consider the internal time frame of Elantris itself and the fall of Elantris has been for a short time span, not that much at all. Assuming Rayse went to sel and did something there to aona and skai, that doesn't account for 500 years. Besides, there is no reason to believe 500 years is brief to Hoid or to the recipient of the letter, who we don't know for sure is a shardholder.

I actually came up with the same idea, over at TWG, it was just a wild theory of mine.

Sorry, Crazyrioter, I haven't read the old threads at TWG, but I agree wholeheartedly with you

if you espouse this theory, you have to explain why the original parshendi weren't affected by whatever was down by the dawnshards. Is there something special in the Shattered Hills that protected them?

Because when the Heralds broke the Oathpact instead of alerting them that he wasn't bound any more Odium waited until they were convinced that the Oathpact lasted without them and humanity had forgotten who the Voidbringers were to begin the Last Desolation and destroy Roshar for good.

Well the Oathpact was broken in the first scene in the book, the prologue. After that we were shown many scenes of Desolations. So Odium didnt' give up trying to destroy the world immediately and the voidbringers came again and again after the Oathpact to try and destroy the world.