therunner

Point is Shallan was conscious and remained functional even with the bolt in brain, which is more damage than most strokes could do. So Stormlight keep you functioning despite the damage to some extent. Combined with what Frustration pointed out about breathing, and Jasnahs fight in RoW, I think it is quite clear that just choking is not going to do much to Radiant so long as they have Stormlight. Yeah, I don't think we know enough to say one way or the other. I do think that there is some level of Investment where the ropes could hold Shardplate, though what level that is is open question. Additional question is, could living Plate reform to e.g. have shard edges on outside to cut the ropes as they try to hold it? That would also influence the strategy quite a bit. As Stormlight seems to be one of the most powerful healing methods (especially for higher Oath radiants) it is likely that Stormlight can supply anything the body needs to keep functions, at increasing cost of Stormlight Basically, for anyone with OP healing in Cosmere you have three options: Block their healing somehow (e.g. suppresion fabrials for Radiants, block the Connection for Compounders) Massive enough damage to fully kill the person before they can heal (e.g. vaporize them, Shardblade to spine/brain, etc.) Inhibit them without doing damage (i.e. tie them up, use painrial) So for Zahel better option (and one he did go for) would be to tie the Radiant up so they cannot move. Apparently good way around Cosmere healing is e.g. tasers as they 'just' cause muscle contraction, and so are not damage to be healed He didn't contradict it so far, and I really hope it sticks because it is nice way of evening the playing field with progressing technology.

@Frustration did good job of defending my point (thank you), so I'll just reply to this. Notably it took Tanavast several millennia to just notice he was warped by the Intent of the Shard. Additionally, you might want to take note of the fact, that once Tanavast resisted Honor's Intent one time too many, the Shard left him. So if your solution to being perfect ruler as Shard is to resist Intent, there is only so much you can do before the power leaves you, and you die. Ati was considered the best candidate for holding Ruin by other Vessels, and this is what happened to him. And those Vessels included several quite old dragons. What is megalomania if not unrestrained passion for your goals? But the problem is shardic government would be entirely subsumed by their Intent. And because of the power disparity, you end up with perfect dictatorship, where populace has no hope of defending themselves, or challenging the leadership. E.g. in purely Honor-led society, divorces would be illegal, because it would be breaking of oath. Why would they do that? I can see Autonomy being compelled to, but other Shards are at best orthogonal to that, if not outright hostile to it. Also, if the point is that Shard is the dictator, what would democracy even do, if the Shard ultimately has final say?

Radiants heal more akin to Gold Compounder than just straight Ferring though. Kaladin healed shattered legs fast enough no one even noticed they broke. Shallan literally walked off crossbow bolt in the head, something that would likely be far more difficult to heal for Ferring. Restricted blood flow to brain will cause less damage than a crossbow bolt through brain. And Jasnah fought in fully sealed Shardplate for hours, and it opened up only when started running out of Stormlight. So I think Radiants will certainly hold out minutes.

Question is, can Shard be well-intentioned in the long run? Intent is ultimately overpowering, so even Vessel that means well will ultimately fall prey to the Intent (see Ruin and Ati, once a kind and generous man). Let's go through Shards (good candidates, don't know enough candidates), though admittedly we have little information on most Ambition Bad candidate, as the Intent would likely force them to utilize her subjects in pursuit of whatever their projects would be Autonomy ?? Can't really tell, she seems to be quite hands-off, so would likely not even want to interfere like that Cultivation Bad candidate, would encourage growth and change for its own sake never ceasing Devotion Good candidate, if not the the best candidate, described as 'divine love and compassion', however unless she rules all her subjects would be vulnerable, as her Intent would encourage service of others in name of love Her rule would be basically divinely imposed perfect socialism Dominion Bad candidate, as the Intent would force them to assert ever greater control over the behavior of his subjects, as Skaze pursue power over all Endowment Semi-Good candidate, seems like they would be mostly hands-off, at most bestowing some positive benefits Honor Bad candidate, just rigid adherence to words of oaths and laws, with no room for nuance Invention Bad candidate, society under them might be effectively enslaved to creating ever more new inventions Mercy ?? Sounds good on paper, but description of mercy in the books make them sound terrifying Odium <Points at Ashyn, Roshar and Braize> Preservation Bad candidate, The Final Empire was something Preservation liked. It would keep things never changing, eventually likely in perfect stasis Reason ?? they seems to want to only hide, so they might conclude that interference is not ideal Ruin <Points at Catecedre> Valor ?? might be bad, the Intent could drive them to engineer situations where subjects are forced to be valorous Virtuosity At first eems to be possibly good candidate, encouraging artistic expression, however no other context might mean e.g. creative serial killer would be appreciated Whimsy Bad candidate, just lolz-random type of rulers likely, and would likely not actually rule for long if at all So seems to me that outside of Devotion and maybe Endowment, there are no good candidates among the Shards for this position, and the best one would hope for is that they just don't interfere at all.

Stronger than the material itself should, but how much is unknown. Additionally, how much of force they can exert is also unknown. Both likely scale somewhat with amount of Breath used to Invest it. That is likely a good wincon, if Zahel stays far. Slashing something wrapped around your neck is generally not easy to do. Regular person, or Radiant? Regular person would likely be out of commission in 10 seconds or so. Radiant would be fine so long as they have Stormlight, so likely minutes to hours. As we see from Kaladin, single pouch of spheres can heal having his spine cut repeatedly while still fighting, and still having Stormlight left. Zahel was also fighting with three advantages, sheets everywhere, the fact Kal didn't know Zahel is Invested, much less what Awakening is and can do, and the fact that Kaladin has centuries less experience with his powers. Prepared Kaladin would likely be able to defeat Zahel, even without Shardplate, as he can keep distance and use Reverse Lashing to trap either the sheets or Zahel. With Plate, it would not even be a fight. Likely because it is more difficult than it looks? Zahel does have several centuries of experience, and is one of pre-eminent scholars on Awakening, not your ordinary Awakener.

Theoretical perfect immortal benevolent dictator, would in a sense be the best, which support Taravangian. Of course, no such being exists in Cosmere, not even Shards. While I understand Taravangian's impulse to want to help, I ultimately lean more to Cultivation side of argument. Even IRL, external imposition of standards requires constant upholding of it (or at least on large scales), and so I think guiding people to build those systems themselves is better option long term. However, Cultivation is also shaped by her Intent, so she likely would always only nudge and demands things change, even if not for better.

You mean exactly what he did? Kaladin saved those spren from being wiped from existence, something no one else could. Sure seems like he lived that Ideal. Should Kaladin also try to save all animals from human and singers? Or also spren from other spren? Radiant Spren are after all using other spren for labour in Shadesmar. Lesser spren are not enslaved, no more than cows and pigs are enslaved on Scadrial. Don't twist what the book is saying. The new method of creating fabrials does not force them to enter, the spren choose to do so. Since there does not appear to be any punishment if they don't enter, then they enter because they want to, because they get some benefit from doing so. Again, don't twist what the books is saying. The Sibling was not mind-controlled by anyone. If you disagree with Sibling and his changed stance, that is fine, but kindly don't take away their ability to choose. And on this topic, you might have noticed that the books are quite clear that Second Ideal, if interpreted absolutely, is impossible to uphold. That is why there are other higher Ideals that temper these ones, and 2nd Ideal is just a part of the journey, not its endpoint. No one can protect all who cannot protect themselves, again Kaladin's entire arc in Oathbringer is about that. Everyone has to choose who/what they protect, and that choice is ultimately arbitrary to some extent. Should Kaladin protect prey species from predation? If so, who protect the predators from hunger? If he protects Singers, who protects innocent humans, who have nothing to do with crimes of their ancestors? Remember that most humans didn't enslave parshmen, and yet they would fall victim to Singers and Fused nonetheless. Or should he protect Singers from Fused? They do overtake bodies forcibly. Or maybe protect Fused from Odium? They live in fear of him taking away their Investiture and killing them. Should he protect spren from Radiant Spren using them in Shadesmar? Should he protect chull from being used as beasts of burden? 2nd Ideal, taken alone and absolutely, is terrible standard to hold anyone to, because no one can live up to it. Adonalsium didn't live up to it. And finally, even if we accept that spren need the protection, how is Kaladin supposed to do anything meaningful about it? He cannot stop research across the entire Roshar, he might protect some specific spren, but ultimately would not achieve systemic change. (and likely all spren would be destroyed had he tried to focus on spren liberation, rather ironically). Kindly apply the same standard to Scadrians, they also use animals for labour. Sazed claims to be Harmony, and yet he did nothing about horses being used in carriages, or cows being raised just to be killed for meat. Sure seems like he talks the talk but does not walk the walk. Also, you don't seem to care what the spren want, as the new fabrial method requires the spren to choose to enter. If they didn't want to, they wouldn't enter. Do cows on Scadrial get that choice? What? That is what you took away from that scene? Kaladin tells someone to not judge others, and you took away that he does not care? So you would prefer if he imposed his views on men under his command? Aren't you complaining for 6 pages about 'children of Ashyn' imposing their views and standards on others? And now its problem when Kaladin doesn't do it, and asks (not orders, asks) someone else to also not do it? Man, Kaladin sure is a bad person, asking people to be tolerant. Kindly tell me, who does walk the walk in your standard? It cannot be Kelsier who trades people, or Vin who slaughtered Skaa who were only trying to feed their families by serving nobles, or Sazed who manipulated Wax into becoming his weapon, and does not care to stop suffering of animals? <Above I am purposefully being uncharitable in reading their situations> I don't know all about Joan of Arc, though I know enough that people who executed most assuredly didn't cry "O God, O God, we have killed a saint!". They did do a re-trial 25 years later, and overturned her verdict, though it was a bit late for that. That is where that quote comes from. We will see what people say about Kaladin in 25 years in-world. Also, why wasn't Joan of Arc fighting for animal rights? If she was so saintly? Or for rights of English peasant who didn't choose to come to France? Seems like she surely also didn't walk the walk. EDIT: @Frustration I am not sure if I agree with this. Radiant can be good moral examples, but that is not necessary component of Radiance. See e.g. Nale's Skybreakers, or current Dustbringers, or Melshi and past Radiants at the time of sealing of BAM. I do think that if you take a random person, and random Radiant, random Radiant is likely better moral example, and higher Oaths increase that likelihood. But there is never a guarantee of that, because they are still people, and so ultimately fallible. Notably, no character in Stormlight is portrayed as infallible, if anything the main theme is that we all fall, it is what we do after that matters. Do we still do the same? Or do we choose to grow and change (hopefully for better). E.g. Dalinar makes horrible mistakes, and with help from others, he manages to grow past those things. Not perfectly, but he is better. Taravangian, also falls and fails, but learns all the wrong lesson from it. Tanavast also failed, and he didn't seem to learn much at all.

I classified it as such, because Kelsier himself saw them as 'other', so more colloquial use of the term, than formal definition per law. And I do think nobles are culturally sufficiently different. No, I pretty much agree with you. But he still did large damage to a culture, and likely taught them how to utilize Hemalurgy (if the word Excisor is as descriptive as it sounds). You stated several times that you don't think nuance has place in fantasy, and yet, here you are looking at Kelsier's actions with nuance. Why don't you extend the same grace to Rosharans? Everyone thinks Kaladin is dead, no one is worshiping him, and knowing Kaladin he will certainly not encourage it. Kelsier created two religions with himself as object of worship. That is a massive difference in personal attitude. Now, I know the first one was accident, Kelsier didn't know he would survive. But the second one is a different thing. No, Kelsier gets considered as 'psychopath' by some, because he e.g. sees no problem in killing every single noble there is. Men, woman, children, all would be fair game to him. He literally slaughters entire manors of nobles and leaves none alive. He also sees soldiers he recruited as things to be used, he nearly killed one just to make a point (and only didn't because Demoux resisted his Pushes/Pulls. I personally am not as harsh in my judgement of him, but the above shows you why he is closer to Ruin than Preservation. As you note, his also does many noble actions, and that is why he is beloved by readers. But, remember that his motivation, why he does everything we see him do while he is alive, is vengeance. Nothing else, he just wants to tear down Final Empire because his love died. Understandable motivation, but you can contrast that with e.g Kaladin or Dalinar, whose motivations are protecting those near him or uniting people in face of apocalypse. Vin notably has similar motivation to Kaladin, and is portrayed in similarly positive light as he is. Did you not read Oathbringer and Rhythm of War? Kaladin's entire arc across those books is about how he struggles with the fact that Singers are people just like anyone else. This culminates in his breakdown in Alethkar, where he freezes in a fight and just desperately shouts both to Bridge Four and to Singers to just stop killing each other. When we see him in RoW, this mental stress has basically lead to him burning out, and Dalinar places him on leave, where Kaladin rediscovers himself, as someone who wants to help and protect others. And finally, he acknowledges he cannot save everyone, something he has known logically even back in Oathbringer, but simply couldn't bring himself to internalize. The reason for that difference is that Kelsier never doubts himself. He never questions morality of his actions (Kaladin does), he never apologizes for his more dubious actions (Kaladin does), and he never tries to grow beyond that (Kaladin does). Vin tells that to Kelsier, because Kelsier needs that push , if he is to start growing. Well, you cannot control what other adults do. Stormfather certainly does not like Kaladin much, which is understandable. But Sylphrena is adult, she can choose who she associates with. And her bet on Kaladin paid off, as he literally helped save every single spren in existence. If that is not redeeming himself for his earlier actions, what else can he do? I don't really agree that Sanderson does this. He shows there are good and bad people on both worlds, even among protagonists (e.g. books judge Jasnah quite hard for her stances, as he judges Kelsier), other characters are raised up as the better models of behavior (Vin and Kaladin). Narratively speaking, similar characters are also treated similarly: Vin and Kaladin both want to protect those close to them, and both are treated as moral core Kelsier, Jasnah and Taravangian all act through 'ends justifies the means' scope, and all are judged for it by the narrative

I don't mind that you come to such a conclusion (even if I don't understand it at all), but the obvious double standard is problematic for me. I would say that if you are going to judge 'children of Ashyn' for something, you should judge Scadrians for the very same things, anything else is hypocrisy. I.e. if you treat one side as monolith, but make allowances to the other side, that is not very fair comparison. Sticking just to stuff in SA1-5, and Mistborns Era 1-2, you judge 'children of Ashyn' for: Slavery Done by Scadrians as well, arguably in even worse conditions Desecrating the dead Done by Scadrians as well, including by protagonists (Hemalurgy) Experimenting on living people Done by Scadrians as well (Hemalurgy, breeding programs) Treating living beings as objects Done by Scadrians as well (Ghostbloods specifically, Kelsier included), up to selling a child for experiments Expansionism and genocide Done by Scadrians as well (TLR, Malwish) Not done by protagonists on either side, with two exceptions Dalinar in his youth, who is explicitly shown as having changed for better Kelsier, who wanted to kill all the nobles (technically a genocide) but got killed before he could do it Harming natives of other planets Done by Scadrians as well (Ghostbloods and their interventions, including assisting with freeing Fused, starting the Last Desolation, and later cooperation with Fused for their own benefit) I'll also note that if Ghostbloods plan to kidnap Kalak worked as intended, then Ghostbloods would be partially responsible for spren genocide Supplanting local culture Done by Scadrians as well (TLR; Kelsier with Southern Scadrians, as they now worship him) If based on above you treat all 'children of Ashyn' as horrible people who will conquer and enslave everyone they meet, then please, do so for Scadrians as well.

Baseline pewter enhancement is roughly 2x, when flaring 3x and that is about a ceiling. And again, Kaladin just with Stormlight matches strenght with Stormform, which is at least 2x as strong as baseline human, so Stormlight does provide strength enhancement in the same ballpark as pewter (even if it is combination of straight improvement and adrenalin-like effect). Durability is also increased by Stormlight, thought this is not talked about as much: Shardplate enhances strength about 15x-20x, even grazing, held-back punch breaks ribs and organs (Moash to Kaladin in WoR). Here Szeth got punched right in the face, which should have basically went right through his head. Instead, it seems his brain was mostly intact, and he was healed rather fast (despite it being Honorblade healing). This suggests Stormlight helps withstand damage. Kaladin drops ~40 feet (12 meters) with little Stormlight and does not break bones This is before he learns Lashings, so it could not have been due to that (and the fall takes only 1.5 seconds). Additionally, it is not that they broke and healed, as Stormlight does not remove the pain (see WoR where Kaladin kicks Plate and shatters both legs). Again, this shows that Stormlight helps withstand damage, and to considerable degree.

From books it is quite clear that Stormlight does improve strength, as early as WoR Kaladin directly states this. From this thread of mine This is not exhaustive list of feats of improved strength, but I think it clearly illustrates that Stormlight enhances strength considerably.

You will find those books quite clear as to who those Scadrians are, and 'Children of Ashyn' they are most certainly not. That is even worse comparison. Heralds ruled only during Desolations (Ishar's episode in Shinovar and Tukar after drinking Odium juice not-whithstanding), and other than that were held on Braize and tortured. And even during Desolations it was less ruling, and more trying to get everything in shape so that they could survive. TLR ruled without a break as tyrant for 1000 years.

How are Rosharan 'preferred people' of immortal shard-splinter god-kings? Singers chose to follow Odium instead of Honor, Honor never chose humans over Singers. Yeah, Honor didn't pay attention to Singers for few centuries back before migration, because basically a serial killer moved into neighboring house! Not to mention that e.g. Shin didn't violate the original treaty with Singers, as far as we know, and in fact have cultural taboo against it. If you are making this comparison, current Rosharan humans have more in common with people like Wax, than with pre-Catecedre nobles. Of course, they are multiple apocalypses away from their roots, unlike Wax who is just one apocalypse away from his, and still gets the benefits of his noble lineage. Now, I will make clear I will not defend slavery, but Parshmen are unintelligent compared to humans and normal Singers. We are explicitly told that unless told to do something, they just sit around and stare. They can talk only with extreme difficulty. If humans didn't take them in following sealing of BAM, Singers would be likely extinct at the moment. And I'll stress that this was not done on purpose, unlike what TLR did to Skaa. Again, this does not excuse that humans enslaved them. Comparatively, Skaa and nobles were originally (1000 years ago) mildly different, but by time of Era 1 those differences were wiped away. If you look at the heinous stuff e.g. Straff Venture is doing with Skaa, nothing on Roshar comes close. And I would also stress that for 2500 years, between Last Desolation and False Desolation, humans and Singers both coexisted on Roshar, without one side dominating the other. @First of the Tide Except humans and Singers did intermix, Herdazians and Unkalaki are just the most prominent examples, both culturally and biologically. Dawnchant was also originally the language of Dawnsingers, and is ancestor of Shin language and of Unkalaki language, another evidence of social intermixing. And as we see in WAT flashbacks, singer/human intermixing was not particularly uncommon, between Desolations. And there was the 2500 years between Last and False Desolations, where humans and Singers coexisted. That is plain wrong. Ashynite culture was virtually wiped away to the extent that no one knows they are from Ashyn to begin with. Nor do they know of Odium (important fixture for Ashynites), nor of Surges. Nor are Ashynites ethnically recognizable as any specific group of Rosharans. They don't even speak the same language! Desolations repeatadly reduced humanity to literal stone age, such that they had to be taught everything from scratch by Heralds (one of whom was not from Ashyn at all). And that is not even considering the 4500 years since Heralds left. That is nearly as long as recorded history here on Earth. Even if they were originally homogeneous at Aharietam (they weren't), after 4500 they wouldn't be, especially since they did interact with Singers for nearly a half of that period, as BAM was sealed 'only' 2000 years ago.

Ah, thank you for explenation. I personally refer to using their 'culture', so to speak? I.e. Iyatil (while born in Silverlight) seems to adhere to cultural heritage of Southern Scadrians, and so I refer to her as Scadrian. From that perspective, I see humans of Roshar as Rosharans, since well, they are. Kaladin is culturally closer to a Singer that lived in Alethkar (as we see in Oathbringer that awakened Singers seem to be culturally close to land they lived in), than he is to people who lived on Ashyn over 7000 years ago. Also, regarding homeworlds, people that settled on Ashyn came from elsewhere, so technically they are not children of Ashyn. Best guess they came from Yolen, as that is the planet humans originated on in Cosmere. Scadrians were created by their Shards along with the planet, so technically they are native to Scadrial only. I don't think I agree that this makes sense (to me at least). E.g. would it make sense in real-life to blame i.e. modern day people of Iraq for what Gilgamesh did? And those are only 5000 years apart. I don't think it hides these actions, it simply shows how separate they are from that. Large part of ending of RoW was showing that humans are as much part of Roshar as Singers and spren, despite Raboniel's claims to contrary. When they arrived they weren't, but after 7000 years, they have become part of it.

Once in air, they cannot dodge in any way shape or form. So if Mistborn is staying high (which they should), this can give Mistborn an open shot at Unoathed. They would have to react quite fast though. I interpreted that that they have a set of vials of the base 16 metals, with some redundancies. Or of sufficient sizes that they can e.g. drink only part of vial, and do duralumin shots. I also based the assumption of it being mostly even, with slight edge towards Mistborn on Mistborn having enough vials. If they do, then they have advantage by virtue of the fact that they are far more likely to land shots on Unoathed, than vice versa. Strictly speaking, I don't think Unoathed can realistically land a shot at Mistborn that uses their tools to full ability, if they have sufficient metal reserves.

Few notes: Shardplate and Blade resists Pushes/Pulls, even Duralumin ones (Well of Ascension is given as possible way to Pull/Push Blade/Plate https://wob.coppermind.net/events/152/#e2801) It also provides protection against emotional Allomancy (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/498/#e15717 ) Shardplate also enhances strength, speed, dexterity/agility and reflexes Wincon for Unoathed is to get in physical range (circa 1-2 meters), as single hit will take out Mistborn (either with Blade, or just punch with Plate). Wincon for Mistborn is to break Plate and land a hit in that broken section. Now, assuming regular 16 metals: Useless (8): Aluminum, Nicrosil, Gold, Brass, Bronze, Tin, Cadmium, Chromium I list Chromium as useless because it requires getting into physical range, at which point Mistborn is promptly killed by Unoathed Mostly useless (2) Zinc, Brass Useful only if helmet is broken, at which point attacking is likely the better optio This leaves us with 6 metals that can be reasonably used: Steel/Iron, Pewter, Electrum, Bendalloy and Duralumin: Defense Pewter should be on flare all the time to not let Unoathed have advantage in all physical attributes, it should be primarily used to assist with dodging Electrum should be used to assist in avoiding attacks Bendalloy should be used to keep distance and reposition Steel/Iron for mobility Offense Duralumin + Steel is the only option to try and break Plate It would likely still require few hits in the same section (2-3), and Plate can reposition Pewter requires getting in range of Unoathed and perfect timing they are unlikely to get If Mistborn has enough vials, I think they might be able to win this? They have multiple tools to keep distance, and keep from getting hit, and Unoathed doesn't have way to close that distance. The best they have is jumping, but that leaves them open to getting nailed by Duralumin+Steel shot. Assuming both fight optimally, I'd say it would be on average a wash, with slight edge to Mistborn, as each has nearly ideal defense against their opponent's offense, but Mistborn has slight edge in being able to attack meaningfully from distance. But if Mistborn gets impatient or cocky, they would lose fast.

Axindweth seems to be a free agent, so I don't blame Scadrial for her actions. Though she does have the same Aviar as Mraize, so maybe she is Ghostblood? But I am not sure, so I give the benefit of the doubt. Bad, kinda how it looks bad that Scadrian organization sold a child to Fused (Lift, back in RoW) for political gain? Luckily, we know more than that, and so we wouldn't judge an entire planet worth of people based on those actions, right? Cherrypicking can make any point of view viable. Why do you keep saying 'children of Ashyn', but 'Scadrians' ? Also, Ashynites were on Roshar for ~7000 years, vs Scadrians interacting with Roshar for 2-3 decades. In those few decades they: Helped unleash Odium (working with Gavilar, so not purely their fault) Worked with Odium to help them win Desolation (ensuring Odium would be free to leave system) When Ashynites were on Roshar for 2-3 decades they, didn't do anything bad yet. It took roughly 50 years before the first conflict started. So considering the sheer number of people, and the span of time, Scadrians are doing worse. Since you say that no amount of legitimate beef is making it okay to trade people, I invite you to judge Kelsier (and Ghostbloods) for the same: Kelsier helped Gavilar with the explicit condition of getting Kalak I.e. Kelsier sees people as bargaining chips and cares not about their consent Ghostbloods (under Kelsier's orders) kidnap Kalak Ala (that spren Shallan is bargaining about at end of WAT) was working on that mission, meaning she/it also ignores consent of others Ghostbloods sold a child to Fused (Lift in RoW), to get political 'in' with Fused Again, this is them treating beings as bargaining chips So there, Scadrian organization doing everything you are judging Shallan for, and systematically (unlike Shallan). Leadership of the Rosharan branch are still Scadrians (Iaytil), they were working for Scadrians (Kelsier) and sent there by Scadrians (Kelsier again). If Kelsier didn't organize Ghostbloods, they wouldn't be there, and as such responsibility does end with him. Additionally, Kelsier in TLM claims the branch is outside his control, and yet as late as RoW he was in communication with Iyatil about seizing control of Oathgates. This was goal he assigned her, and she had to tell him it would not be possible. So they tried to at least get access, and started working with Fused (by selling them Lift). I.e. from the roughly 2-3 decades that we know Ghostbloods operated on Roshar, it seems that Kelsier was in charge for the entire time, except that last month or two. And even in WAT Iyatil is convinced Kelsier would be okay with their actions if they achieve their goals (which they didn't). Would they act like that if Kelsier was on the site? I don't think so, at least not to this extent, but Kelsier is still the one who recruited Iyatil, and who let her run things for several decades.

There is in fact indication this is unusual for Shallan, and it is in fact her very first interaction with Ala, in RoW ch 115 (roughly 10 days earlier in-world) So Shallan is concerned for the (physical and emotional) well being of the spren considers keeping it in a box crime (due to harm it seems to have caused) considers abuse of spren a crime Now, keep in mind that Ala is faking all of the above, in order to manipulate Shallan. So later, when Shallan has learned about this, she has no reason to see her/it (some spren do prefer being called it) as anything else then enemy Ghostblood. One that can be very useful to her after the catastrophe that was WAT, so she uses her negotiating position to get her services. Maybe Shallan does not treat her with compassion and consideration, because Ala abused those same qualities 10 days earlier? Maybe that speaks more to the situation at hand, and not to moral character of Rosharan's as whole. Maybe Shallan would be more inclined towards positive interaction with 'child of Scadrial' if it were not for the fact that his organization tried to...you know, kill her. Ghostbloods: tried to kill her in TWoK (accident, but still) tried to kill her in WoR (twice) blackmailed her in O used her near to breaking point in RoW tried to kill her in WAT (several times) And this is not even counting the lies, the overt and implied threats, the betrayal of Radiants in Tower during RoW, and many other events. So, maybe, if Scadrial wants pleasant diplomacy, their behavior should not be so terribly negative skewed? Again, so far, Scadrians did more damage to Rosharns than vice versa. Nearly everything you so harshly judge Rosharans for, Scadrians did as well, if not more so in some cases.

You know what US air force does to prepare for hurricane, as the default? They flee, they move planes elsewhere. Highstorm is much more powerful than any Hurricane on Earth. So please, do explain how they will have plans in place, when the best plan they have here is to move away. This page might be of interest on how US military approaches hurricanes on Earth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HURCON As you can see, preparations start 4 days before hurricane hits, on Roshar, hurricane hits roughly every 5-6 days, alternating between CAT 3 and something like CAT 15 (if we extrapolate hurricane scale beyond CAT 5), so US forces would have only 1-2 days where they are not in preparatory stages, and during that time they also have to clean up after storm, and run necessary repairs. Except of course infrared and radar are light, i.e. in-scope of Lightweavers to manipulate and hide from. If you are just going to assume US magically knows everything relevant about Roshar, and has time and resource to retrofit everything perfectly, while Roshar know nothing, even things they can easily learn via spying through Cryptics, I don't think this discussion has any point. Citation needed. Really? One, US does not have amount of personal to capture all Oathgates, not by a long shot. Two, Rosharan's didn't realize what Oathgates where for millenia, and just used them as plazas, so how will US know the large plazas are strategically important? No, I was clear from begging that some walls would be damaged, those nearest to blast. To depth of 1-2 meters at best. And no, the Window is the entire length of the tube it would provide sizable vent outside. And no 7/8 around is not corridor, there are walls with lifts in them, and doors to get out of the lifts. So yes, the blast will bounce of, and the window will shatter and most of the force of explosion would vent outside. At least read up on the situation before you start making claims like this. Giving one side unattackable base, information on the opponent (with no justification how they learned that), magically updated technology to avoid any local issues, and ignoring how the magic of one side actually acts does not seem reasonable to me. As such, I am out of the discussion, because I don't see the 'liberties' reasonable in any way shape or form.

So stated simply, you let Roshar have their native abilities, and added advantages on top of US native abilities. So it is not 'can side A beat side B', it is 'can side A (with the following additional bonuses) beat side B' Rosharans don't have sensitive precision equipment. Swords and armor can be stored much easier than tanks, planes. No they can't. Roshar can soulcast them which is basically instantenous, and indeed they do. The castles are build to withstand the Highstorms, not necessarily hidden. Plane, is very much not. Wrong, haboobs are only up to about 60mph in forward speed, i.e. about 1/2 of the Everstorm. So no, average FOB very much couldn't survive it. And then they get destroyed by e.g. Windrunner in Plate approaching underwater from sea, and slashing a hole in hull. Or soulcasting, again. ...that is not how mountains work In fact, as the pressure builds on the side storm is hitting, the air can be faster on the opposite side. Basically, this heavily depends on the shape of the mountain, but even then there is certainly more than 150-200 MPH wind there. The spawn point Rosharans now about for about several months before invasion starts? The spawn point which can be comfortably attacked from Shadesmar? Not all planes can fit there. E.g. the bomber that carry the MOAB is too large for that. So you get hit in the chest, get split in two pieces and the shock kills you near-instantly, and you don't come back. They can heal only if they don't die instantly. If someone gets hit by a 20mmm round, well, they're... ...well, they don't have a heart to do CPR on anymore. Sure, they can heal really well if they're still alive, but damage that catastrophic is not something you can heal in time to not die. This holds for Fused too; it's why they can kill Fused with spears and daggers if they aim well. The WoB you are quoting is about people coming back from the dead, not about healing. Kaladin got his spine severed repeatadly at the start of RoW and survived. Shallan got headshot by arrow and literally walked it of. And note this: So long as they have Stormlight, they will be kept alive. And same holds for Fused too. If you read Mistborn Era 2, they are likely slightly toned down version of Miles Hundredlives. Coppermind does not say that Roshar has slightly denser atmosphere, nor can I find anything on Arcanum. And again, physics is quite clear that it should have less dense atmosphere. Again, that is not how Lashings work. The only force you feel is the vector sum of Lashings applied, not all of them at once, just the resulting vector sum. So, how much prep time are you giving US? Because if you want to rebuild all the planes to NASA specifications, you will need several years, if not decade. Alternative is of course to build them to usual tolerances, and test them on Roshar (which would take few iterations), and even than it would take a year at minimum, if not longer. E.g. F35 started development in 1995, and first flight was in 2000, and they did not have to account for completely different gravitational and atmospheric conditions. F22 also took around 5 years from full development start (1991, though work already started in 1981) to production (1996). So I am reasonably confident in saying US military will take minimum of a year to design the planes, and start testing them on Roshar. Year and a half to full production. And I would say the above is being generous. Sorry to maybe sound rude, but I guess you don't have a physics focused university education? Because calculations relating to atmosphere and fluid flows are many things, but 'extremely uniform' and 'not that difficult' are certainly not on the list. ...no, I did not point out the effect are easy to predict, I literally did the opposite. One, effects are not visible (except the direct spot where it is placed), so the sniper does not know the range of the reverse lashing, nor its strength. Two, effects are path dependent, and I don't think snipers can calculate relatively complex integral to compute total force across the path way on the spot, in their head. And finally, all they have is one curved pathway, and that is not enough information to reconstruct both strength and range, not without prior experimental information. So they don't even have information needed to define the integral in the first place. No you are wrong, see e.g. RoW ch. 106 where Kaladin rips Leziens head off Kaladin walks away and the Reverse Lashing still functions. Or earlier, when he steals the fabrials ch 58 So Kaladin infuses the brush, and the brush then has the Reverse Lashing, even after Kaladin is no longer touching the brush. Maybe you should read up more on the individual abilities? Also, Reverse Lashing is combination of Adhesion and Gravitation, not just Gravitation alone. In 'most' circumstance, i.e. not in all, i.e. Soulcasting can create mass. Gravitation via Reverse Lashing literally creates new localized gravity wells. It creates enough light to use it as primary light source across continent. And based on Navani's experiments it creates almost regular white light (i.e. the same stuff as from sun) except blue band is supernaturally thick. If you can cite that I would be happy. And what makes you so sure Yolish Lightweaving can do it, but not Rosharan one? On this we agree. Shardplate possibly excepted (as per what is has already withstood on-screen, and what has been stated about it), but even then not on fully open ground. Except of course, for Soulcasting from Shadesmar. (frankly, without Soulcasting Radiants would have far more difficult time of striking back). Not if you have appropriate bead. Not if you are Lightweaver hidden behind an illusion. LiDAR relies on light reflected back, i.e. something that is reasonably easy to fake for Lightweavers. And I am saying that Lightweavers can manipulate/create light to effectively replace 'visual reality' of the observer. And so she just requires supply of Stormlight through some supply chain. Also, Dalinar's perpendicularity should theoretically let you leave as well, as we saw in Oathbringer. US has much more limited and fragile supply system. Again, how does the millitary know about Oathgates? Even if they protect just the ones in Urithiru (which, vast majority of people on Roshar does not know its physical location, and get there only through Oathgates), that is enough. And military wouldn't see anything within 100 yards, when Lightweavers exist. Again, citation needed. You seem to point out a lot of limitations of Surges which don't actually have any support in text, or are flat out contradicted by text. And she can just soulcast e..g few munitions into fire to cause a lot of problems. You likely saw how munitions depos can explode if just few catch fire. Except that Shadesmar is already not 1-1 to Physical realm, and beads can be attracted away from their closest location via Stormlight. When they don't know where and how large the hole will be in the first place? Ordering strike so quickly after is not reasonable, not before you verify that the first strike did what you wanted it to do in the first place. ...citation needed? At the end of RoW Sibling does things far faster than real-time perception would allow for. ...no again not how it works. Toughness, not hardness measures how much energy material can absorb before failure, it does not mean it absorbs less energy. Yeah, the walls near the explosion would likely crack or get damaged, which is how they are absorbing the energy. Additional note, there is the huge window which provides the path of the least resistance across the entire length of the shaft. So, based on what you are saying, wouldn't most of the energy dissipate that way? Basically the shaft at the moment of explosion has the following vents: door on the ~180 floors (of which >50% are closed) Huge window across one entire side 5x5 hole on top Based on the least resistance argument, vast majority of the force of explosion will semi-harmlessly dissipate through window, axial overpressure gets primarily vented from top, and then some damage through doors. But it would not cause the tower to be uninhabitable to any extent. They die to spears/daggers only after the run out of Voidlight. That still gives them minutes to kill soldiers in close quarters (where they will be difficult to hit). US millitary has nowhere near resources to do that. You are talking about internment of population of ~300 million across landmass the size of Asia. So no, they can't prevent Fused that way. So if people just start shooting at him, during e.g. a meeting, they will also hit a lot of other soldiers/leadership. He is literally in the middle of them, no one gets clear shot at him. And he would kill far more than two three guys per teleport, stabbing people to death when you are ~2x as strong as them is rather easy. Plus faster in general, with better reflexes. Stormfather cannot see Shinovar because of Ishar hoped up on Odium juice, if I recall correctly. Which of course means that US would now have to fight Heralds, Ishar's human Fused (they first appear in WAT, but that is only 10 days after RoW, and they clearly existed throughout events of RoW as well, we just didn't know). It would be a bit problematic if US leadership/soldeirs started being taken over by his human Fused. Not by a long shot, they would get footage of the Rosharan area, but they would not be able to analyze that at all. Of course, Roshar already knows about B2 etc, thanks to the portal being opened for several months, and practical tests of modified aircraft. Considering they decipher texts of Scadrian origin (i.e. different planet), then yes, they can. And they don't have to intercept instant communication, they can send them to camps and read the notes directly. I speak english. I honestly didn't notice any difference.

Do you judge Scadrians equally harshly for e.g. farming animals for food? They are not free, and they get killed so that Scadrians can get what they want. Or using horses for carriages? Animals (like lesser spren) can survive in the wild, and the animals had been domesticated in the same process you are now seeing with lesser Spren. And any benefit for the animal is only tangential, and very much not the intent of person doing domestication. And, lesser spren do seem to enjoy e.g. being used in heating fabrials, so they are getting benefits out of it. So again, will you judge Scadrians for kidnapping free and self-sufficient animals, and keeping them locked up just to kill them? Because that is what domestication comes down to. The shards made agreement to 'not interfere with each other', though this was not a formal Oath. Ati and Leras went together because they wanted to create new planet, and neither could do it alone. So no, they did not want to keep each other in check. We don't know why Aona and Skai went together, so speculation in any direction is equally valid. And Honor and Cultivation also don't see what they did as breach of the agreement, though I would consider it as such. So all of these duos in my opinion are equally 'guilty' of breaching the agreement, and don't have any moral high ground. Catecendre took about a year, not a lot of time to react, considering how Shards perceive time (see Tavanast accidentally losing track of decades and centuries). Direct attack from Autonomy (what blocks Sazed future sight) is also rather quick action (months?), previously she only infiltrated via the Set to destabilize the situation and get what she wants (kinda like what Ghostbloods are doing on Roshar by the way) Devotion and Dominion were the very first victims of Odium, that alone makes it difficult for other Shards to react (no precedence). And he first turned them against each other, so other Shards could have seen it at first as infighting between two Shards that should not have settled together. Or they didn't care as you are implying. Conversely, Rosharans have been suffering Desolations for millenia, enough time to react even on Shard scale, and we know other Shards are aware of the situation, and choose not to care, except Sazed, but he is sadly limited in other ways. Except that Odium is not Rosharan problem, he arrived as invader and cosmere-level problem, and Tanavast bound him to the system and so protected others. Imagine if Tanavast never bound Odium, and Odium noticed Scadrial...Ruin and Preservation would have been destroyed rather fast (one being brain-dead, the other being bound by the first one). And yeah, Leras very well could have been brain-dead already, since Ascensions through Well happened multiple times on Scadrial, so he was brain-dead for at the very least two millennia by the time of Era 1. Frankly, I don't blame Leras for not acting, he kinda had his hands full already with Ruin. Other Shards on the other hand... The reason narrative does not treat it the same way, is because it is not the same. Odium wanted to leave after relatively short time span, so he could go after easier targets, it was Tanavast that kept him bound there, and in doing so protected Cosmere (and e.g. Leras and Ati) from him. I.e. Rosharans were sacrificed for millennia to keep other Cosmere worlds (and Shards) safe from Odium, when all they had to do was let Odium go and they would be fine. Now, after doing this was ~7 millennia, they (Dalinar) just decided to stop being a sacrifice on behalf of the rest of the Cosmere, which I think is rather fair. Also, all of the Rosharan Shards were bound to the system up until ~Alloy of Law or so, so they themselves couldn't help anyone. Tanavast literally stopped Odium from being Cosmere-level problem for ~7 millennia, and he was dead for two of those millenia. Not just brain-dead like Leras, fully dead. So no, Leras is not 'the only god to prevent that'. I'll also note that so far (between Scadrial and Roshar) it was 'children of Scadrial' that interfered harmfully with the other world intending to benefit themselves (Ghostbloods).

Welcome back! Hope you had enjoyable and interesting last two years I believe this was confirmed in the book.

There is no oil on Roshar, as it is artificial planet. (at least as far as we know). And again, Highstorms/Everstorms. I am not saying it is balanced oddly, I am saying it is not balanced at all. You cannot have a tactical discussion if you throw a realism out the window. Sure they could, and Rosharan side would know about it quite fast. But you need to test updated hardware how it actually performs, and you have to do that on Roshar. No piece of technology just worked on first try, especially not ones as complex as fighter jets. ...even non rotating storms have gusts of wind, we literally see those from characters inside Highstorm. It is not uniform field of wind moving at 370 mph, the Stormwall moves that way across terrain, but even within it you have gusts of wind far faster than that. Rosharans don't have to find planes and infrastructure, regular buildings are build sturdy enough to partially withstand them, with properly slanted roofs. None of the standard US equipment can handle that. Are they large enough to hide aircraft carrier? But even if they are, that just means the carrier is susceptible to attacks from land. And of course, windbreak that protect you from Highstorm does nothing for Everstorm, and vice versa (unless you find one situtated just right). And AM-2 promptly flies away in ~300MPH winds. And whatever stays gets torned by flying rocks, and covered in crem. And the B2 get blown away and destroyed, or do you think planes on open field can survive tornado? Its not like there is no wind magically behind the mountains. Military usually handles hurricanes by moving the planes elsewhere, which is not workable solution on Roshar. Building hardened shelters will take a lot of time, which they don't have when continually disrupted by regular Highstorms and Everstorm, plus Radiant and Fused attacks. And the planes cannot stay on aircraft carriers, because..wind. Sure, why not give US another advantage. And where will those refuel? And they are far smaller targets than planes as in ~10x smaller. Except of course Radiants can survive anything barring decapitation (see, well anything). So you shoot of their legs, and they start growing them back (if they have enough Stormlight). Only headshots would kill them on spot, and I don't think planes are precise enough to do that on purpose. Deadplate can survive minutes of above humans beating on it. And while kinetic energy is far larger, momentum not as much difference (like, still ~10-50 more). I understand the forces involved just fine, that is why I specified they require Shardplate to breach Mach. Wrong, on Roshar atmosphere is less dense, due to lower surface gravity. In fact it should be basically proportional, so air is ~0.7 less dense and so is pressure 0.7 lower. So it should be easier to reach mach (also, another thing to keep in mind when redesigning planes and their instrument). Yeah, I was also saying the playing field is more level If anything, Radiant in Plate + Stormlight should withstand G-forces better than a pilot, because unlike them they are continuously strengthened and heal. How much of a difference does that make? No idea, no good way to quantify it. That is not how Lashings work. You don't experience them all, they cancel out, even with natural gravity. See Sazed applying half-lashing to be weightless. And even so, Radiants instinctual alter the Lashings after some practice, see Kaladin in RoW. Ah, so you say every plane will be rebuild to the same standards as NASA missions? (and its not like all worked out as they should). Prepare ~10 billion bill per plane, and years of time for testing and building. Mimicking or calculating real world properties is notoriously hard, especially for extreme conditions are supersonic flights. Even after simulating it, and building it, you have to test it. Why do you think there exists a job test pilot? Gravity wells are not uniform. Gravity famously falls of with ~1/r^2 (relativistic corrections not whitstanding), and reverse lashings far faster than that (from what little we have seen). So no it is not like playing Super mario Galaxy, you are just wrong on this. Also, how would US know that it is gravity wells that cause their bullets to fly off? You also forgot they can place it, and walk away and it will still be there. They would have to renew it occasionally. So again, no, that is not how it would go down. Soulcasting literally add/removes molecules mass as needed. And Renarin creates light at the start of RoW in dark room. And Stormlight literally glows and they use it as light source! That would make no sense if it just maniupated existing light. So yes, there is precedence of light being generated by Investiture, and hence there is no reason to think Lightweavers don't create light. It would have representation that can be manipulated by Soulcaster. Also, if you want to give US another advantage by saying their tools don't have cognitive representation, I don't think this discussion has any point. Because Jasnah is not dumb enough to just walk into open field, when their spying on enemy showed they can attack at pretty large distances. So she is happily camping in Shadesmar, and soulcasting soulflames/beads from there. Same for any of the above, none of that is protected against attacks from Shadesmar. Or against hidden Lightweaver (except the plane). I know, and yet you keep saying that about US side. We also have WoBs that Shardplate would withstand bullets well, Shardplate being used by soldiers into Era 4 (i.e. sci-fi),, Shardplate surviving re-entry and full concentrated power of the sun that literally melts rocks and forms new mountains (on Canticle, TSM), and finally Shardplate can be enclosed (so no gas weaponry). Shardplate is not magical medieval armor, it is magical sci-fi powered armor, per Author himself. It is pretty sturdy. Why do you assume that: Jasnah is just standing outside when they know about guns (cryptic spying and decipher language, both well within established capabilities) Only one fabrial or reverse lashing is placed It is also not hard to see that they are not, you know, morons, who would just march in without any information. Depending on fuel changes, retrofitting would be needed. Roshar realized immediately that something is going on, because portal (unless you want to add another advantage of portal being undetectable). The logistics required are far smaller than what you seem to assume US will be doing. As in by several orders of magnitude smaller. And not soulcast random stuff, destroy planes, fuel, ammo. You know, militarry targets. Also, you said above that ships would be anchoring due to Highstorms/Everstorms, so there is at least several days where they are susceptible. Not to mention from Shadesmar they are susceptible all the time. And how do the soldiers get there in the first place? US cannot reasonably establish bases due to environmental hazards and Fused and Lightweavers. Sibling does a lot during RoW, just close to the end. So yeah, Sibling is in the game. Why Dalinar, he cannot Soulcast or Shape stone? Any Stoneward or Soulcaster can fix the hole. And what reason would US have to attack within minutes of opening the hole? Do they magically know all about Surges? ...there are massive doors of stone there + Sibling. not to mention the explosive won't spread as far as in open air. The strength of the tower also absorbs the strength of the blast, so it will not spread as far. Ah, so you say we can lure US troopers with promise of gold, and then capture them. You are the one who brought them up in the first place? (or am I missing something?) Why? Too bad US has no weapons that severe consciousness, just good old fashioned guns. Which Fused can heal from, unless you destroy their head completely. And of course then they are just reborn and go again. Can US afford to lose dozens of people in their camps for single Fused, that is not even dead? So again, what would US do once Lezian just decapitates their leadership in single attack? Cryptics, they do linguistics and cyphers for fun. So Roshar would quickly learn to read US documents. ...again, Stormfather. Roshar would know quickly after ships spawned, and there is that. Plus, of course, US has to have been doing reconnaissance for a while to reach Shinovar and learn about it, which means Roshar already know about them.

Ok so, The location of teleport is fixed, i.e. some portal or some such Military hardware can pass through only one way (US -> Roshar) US controls it in general, so Rosharan side cannot use it to launch counterattacks ( I Really don't like this one) So the Rosharan side: would know about the location of the portal can setup sentries in Shadesmar (you know, to check it is not another invasion) can attack from Shadesmar can send in spies (e.g. bonded Cryptics) to learn about their technology/plans (though they would have to first decode language, luckily Cryptics are very good at that). They have roughly a year to establish this, since US has to modify all of their planes etc. Also, because military hardware can pass through only one way, US has to test the modifications at least partially on Rosharan side, giving Rosharans information on their hardware, how it is used, how it performs. All of the above is before any reconnaissance gathering can even start, meaning Rosharan have information advantage for first year or so (if not beyond). No, that is now how it works. Travel speed and wind speed are two different metrics, you can have strong hurricane that moves slowly and vice versa. Not little faster, EF5 tornado is around 200 MPH, Highstorm has minimum wind speeds of 370 MPH just from travel speed, and localized winds would go far beyond that, likely in 450-500 MPH range. Everstorm is CAT5 hurricane just from travel speed, and again, localized winds would go beyond that ~200-250 MPH range. So how is US going to set up a base runway, etc., when it is getting hit by a CAT5 hurricane (Everstorm) every 10 days, and by a hurricane sized EF5+ tornado every 10-14 days? Like, those are horrible conditions for operating modern military equipment. Roshar does not avoid them, they adapted to them. You do realize you need very flat chunk of earth to safely land a plane? Not something hurricane every 5 days will help you set up. Also, where are you hiding those planes during those hurricanes/hypercanes? Behind a hill is insufficient protection from Highstorms, you need shelters dug into the side of hill opposite storm. Basically, any and all military camps as they are usually built would be worse than useless on Roshar, they would get flattened in the first Highstorm that hits them. And they have to build this fast. And planes (which are the key to any US strategy) need constant refueling, so that is the key part. Both would have to be supplied from the portal. Wood is present only in Shinovar, so US couldn't source it locally. Ditto for concrete, they don't have sand mines, or cement. Which makes it another weakspot that Rosharans can target. No, reaching mach speed has nothing to do with g forces. G forces are caused by nonuniform acceleration (which technically means that Lashings shouldnt lead to them, and indeed they are kinda inconsistent, like Kaladin lashed himself multiple dozens of times in arena in WoR and did not pass out...but I digress ) So Windrunner can reach those speeds (and since they will eventually travel in space, they kinda have to). And coincidentally so are planes, but those are also limited in other ways (i.e. engine is only in the back for example). Also, Rosharans and US soldiers are equally susceptible to passing out from G-forces, so not sure why you think plane could make sharper turns. Sure they have suits to help a bit, but Windrunners have Stormlight that strenghtens their entire bodies and constantly heals them. All in all, Windrunner can be just as fast as plane (if they have Shardplate), and can maneuver better than any plane, because they have fewer restrictions. US needs a year to adapt their technology, and have to test it on Roshar. That is a lot of time to observe and spy on them to learn about their technology. Or they can just set up a general reverse lashing/attractor to attract metal, that would work also (just have to place it far enough from base). ...you don't seem to realize that Reverse Lashing is not uniform effect. How the bullet gets curved depends on its path through effect, so it is not a constant offset. Also, increasing the lashing wouldn't cause anyone to float, what the hell is that part supposed to be? Reverse lashing affect only what their creator wanted them to. Again, no, Lightweaving does create light. If it 'just' manipulated ambient light, they couldn't create illusions that work in darkness, or create lasers. Not sure why you keep denying this. Only Shallan finds it difficult, other Lightweavers have relatively easy time with soulcasting (stated in RoW). They know planes are there because they spied on US for a year or so, and have fresh intel from Stormfather. Planes will be either on runway (if it can survive Highstorm) or on aircraft carrier. So they can certainly soulcast around them. And yes, planes should have cognitive counterpart, people think about it, hence it has a bead. And so they can soulcast it directly, as beads can be attracted via Stormlight as seen in WAT. As the sniper tries to fire, the gun explodes as the air in its barrel was turned to rock. He dead. Or get stabbed from behind by Lightweaver hidden by illusion. I can write short snippets too. Plus of course non-uniformity of reverse lashings, meaning simple offset won't be enough to target...or if Jasnah just made a single step aside. Finally, Shardplate won't get shot through in a single shot. Roseite (material not as strong as Rosharan Godmetals) withstood machine gun fire with ease, and Shardplates are used even circa 200-300 years in future. So even the basic setup of that snippet is flawed. You mean how modern fighter planes are a result of decades of RnD, and so could be easily retrofitted to work in very different atmospheric conditions in under a year? I guess both sides are just adaptable. More seriously, modern Radiants learn faster than before (Raboniel, RoW), and the ones with teachers even faster (see how quickly Kaladin learns Surges, vs his Squires). How? Reconnaissance flights? How would the help them learn these are platforms for teleporting to other dimension, and so hugely important? Not to mention if you place an illusion or build a simulacrum of it, how would the plane know they are looking at a fake? And Oathgates are not so fragile, the one on Shattered planes survived both Shard clash (i.e. Shards clash that destroyed area hundreds of square km in size) and Everstorm/Highstorm clash. Both of those were more destructive than any bomb US has, nukes included. Fair. Of course, Sibling can simply reshape the stone to close the hole himself (considering he can shape stone in hallways), basically immediately after attack. Or if that is not possible, any Soulcaster (even non Radiant) can plug it within minutes. You mean ground penetrating radar, LiDAR only gives surface readings. And ground penetrating radar is not particularly a curate unless you roughly know soil composition, which, Urithiru will be rather atypical, even for Roshar. What with actually being spren and all. No its not. 11 tons of TNT is just not enough to do what you describe, like, by order of magnitude. And you conveniently forget that those tunnels can close as it is an organism, not just a structure. The reason MOAB destroys soft target (not hard, important distinction) in such a large area is that it is thermobaric weapon, i.e. it disperes cloud of fuel which is then ignited. That is how it gets reach. I hopefully don't have to tell you that such dispersal won't work very well in enclosed space (especially one with intelligent being in control of every things inside), which will as a result highly limit the reach. Plus, being weapon primarily designed against soft target, it would not do much damage to Urithiru at all. Again, crater depth scales with cube root of yield in kilotons, 11 tons of TNT would barely crack a few walls, even if concentrated in one spot. Dispered across larger area, the effect would be even lesser. Because the gold won't exist, unless Soulcaster make it? Those two? No. Jasnah? Maybe. Fused, certainly. Small red firefly flows into command center. Lezian suddenly spawns and starts murdering people left and right, decapitating the leadership in single attack. He gets hit in the head by a lucky shot, but simply heals with Voidlight and turns into a spark again to get close with the attacker. He kills everyone who saw him, then leaves. That still means it is not US military vs Roshar, but US military (with global economy for support) vs Roshar. That is just blatantly biased. How would us know what local causes are there? Again, they don't speak language, they don''t even have common lingusitic roots to fall back on, they don't know history or culture. Plus, this assumes they somehow got foothold on land, which...how? They cannot build bases with their equipment, Fused can attack them from ground wherever, and Radiants can attack them from Shadesmar.

You seem to heavily misunderstand what Surges actually can do, and what is the environment of Roshar, while at the same time overestimating what US can do without interference. Ok, so the portal opens up, and US needs months/year before it can even start reconnaissance. Rosharan side meanwhile does find the portal (Stormfather), and is rather interested in it considering current events. Might even attempt to travel through, thus quickly discovering the dangers. The time also means Rosharan side continues to develop, and Radiant forces become larger. The 300 MPH and 120 MPH are not wind speeds, they are how fast the storms travel. The wind speeds are much higher than that, considering the damage. Highstorm rips and carries large trees for hundreds of miles, and rips boulders from earth. If anything Highstorm is more like hurricane size tornado. Everstorm is less destructive, but not by that much. So they would be a problem for convoys and infrastructure. Also, how is US going to build structures to withstand this, they don't have wood or concrete? How can they build e.g. runways? Or refueling stations? And how they will avoid Fused just reaching from ground and killing people, destroying items? Hell, just sending in a few Stonewards (of which there are hundreds) could do a lot of damage, by e.g. sinking planes into runways (if they had physical presence of land). It is not impossible to reach Mach speeds, that has nothing to do with G-forces. Windrunner just has to lash themselves in direction, and wait (or occasionally add Lashings as wind resistance builds up). Likely not doable without Shardplate, though creative application of Adhesion could help. Windrunners are far smaller and are more maneuverabl than military aircraft (at least with Shardplate). Also, Gravitation is less predictable than average flight, as plane cannot start accelerating in arbitrary direction at arbitrary time. Again, wrong. Reversed lashing can lash all of the above. Based on it literally ripping a Fused's head off, it generates enough force to makes deflect bullets by ~1cm per 1m travelled in range, and they can be made stronger (like any other Lashing). Not to mention repeller and attractor fabrials, which could do all of the above as well (though how strong they can be made is a question). Wrong, as Returned already posted, Illumination does generate light and sound. Like, all of the above you wrote is just wrong. Again, wrong! Lightweavers can do everything Elsecallers can (Soulcasting wise), Elsecallers are just more suited to it. Even the Soulcasting at range can be done by Lightweavers. Also, enemy fuel could be convinced that burning more is surely good, as that is its purpose, and so could be soulcast into a mix that would destroy the planes by burning too hot. Again wrong. Elsecallers can simply teleport to Shadesmar (and back, though that is more difficult). US side also cannot 'just' capture Oathgates, that would be much more involved operation. Any evidence for this? Because as far as I can tell, there is none. Because it would be surely as simple as that, and Rosharan side would not protect their most important assets at all. E.g. by maintaining a Lightweaving to keep location hidden, or building a bunker over it. Or both. And you think it could destroy Urithiru which is hundreds times the size? How does the US side know architectural details of Urithiru? ...no, that is not how it works. In OPEN space, yes the fireball would spread like that. In enclosed space with doors, walls? No. Again, it is just 11 tons of TNT, that is not enough to render a kilometer tall mountain fort uninhabitable. And why is it that you assume US soldiers won't give up? Or that spren can betray Rosharan side, but US soldiers cannot be swayed by as much gold as they might want? And I disagree with that assertion. Roshar is in the middle of invasion as it is, of course they would be suspicious immediately. Ah, so its now Roshar vs NATO? No, US has US military, not NATO forces and support, as that is the problem statement. Why would people ally with US? US famously kinda sucks at turning locals to their side, as last ~70 years or so show, and that is when they have a lot of knowledge on history and language of the area (or were invited in the first place) Here, US does not know language, does not know customs, does not know culture or history. It seems to me you just want US to clown on Roshar, and not much else. So you handwave away any complications (US would just spend a year or so redesigning their entire air force to work on other planet), give US advantages (first strike, asymetrical assumptions on knowledge they posses, unattackable homebase), and disregard anything Rosharan side can do, while not even sticking to known facts (such as how Lightweaving or Soulcasting works).