therunner

Yes, but Shard making a promise is different from what OP is proposing, which is binding a Shard forcibly Oathpact worked because: There was pre-existing deal binding actions of Odium, Honor and Cultivation That was stronger than 'just' a regular promise done by Shard, being strengthened by Honor Heralds had pre-existing Connection to Odium Honor was involved, Shard that is explicitly about binding As Harmony doesn't have any pre-existing deals that would limits its actions that we know of, nor ones strengthened by Honor, I doubt that Harmony could be forcibly bound.

Shallan started getting access to Surges and Resonances seemingly only once other Cryptics started trying to bond her again. And as seen from Kaladin, even before knowingly swearing Oaths, proto-bond can be formed. So I think they will: If of 3rd Oath and beyond, they will have deadeye blade. That they likely have to bond with gemstone anyway, because their Oaths are dead. Any physical changes due to healing will persist. And that is it. They will basically just be Shardbearer, with no other notable things going on. Nor will they remain Invested to any extent, the Investiture comes from the Bond, and since spren is Deadeye, the Bond has been broken.

I'll be a bit contrarian and say it wouldn't work. Not all Shards have the same powers and Honor is especially suited to binding and Oaths. His first binding of Odium was done even without active intent of the Vessel, if I recall correctly. So I don't think Autonomy, Shard that is in a sense quite against being bound by things, would be able to bind another Shard. Basically, I think Honor could, but other Shards couldn't.

Truths that cannot be proven are not truths, they are beliefs or opinions. Some of those we may regard as 'deeper' truths, like beliefs in any number of religions, or our opinions on what is morally/ethically correct. None of these are provable, and so we have been arguing over those, well, for millennia. However, when discussing what happens in a book some things can be proven or disproven. Me saying Kaladin has blue skin can be disproven by the book, and so any argument I make based on that (e.g. "He is literally son of Tanavast, he has blue skin!") will be rightfully dismantled. Like you saying Szeth was killed, or that Nahel Bond is brainwashing spren. You came to these statements by not liking what was happening on page, and coming up with your own headcanon to make it more satisfying for yourself. That is fine, but once you start bringing those headcanons to discussions as if they were facts, you inevitably set yourself up to be corrected, because those things, well they never happened. And claiming something happened or is true when it didn't is either an error or a lie, and either should be called out. I disagree, especially when discussing what happens in those works of fantasy. E.g. me saying that in LOTR, Gandalf is exploiting hobbits to do his dirty work might look passably correct at a glance, but it is clearly incorrect. In-world, facts might not be as they are, but when discussing the literature facts are important. People have always been imaging things other than their present, it has nothing to do with modernity. Any number of myths are effectively fantasy with religious overtones (e.g. Gilgamesh, Roman and Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology), and people have been writing things akin to science-fiction even back in Roman times. ... those are literally the dictionary definitions of those words. I don't even know what to say. Kaladin is not the least educated, he is the least privileged. Kaladin certainly received more formal education than e.g. Dalinar ever did, considering his schooling from his father. Nor did Kaladin ever had an opportunity to switch side, or reason to, considering the war very quickly shifted from "conquest/punitive war for assassination of leader" to "apocalypse, round 34". You mean like Scadrians? Who experiment on godmetals, are scientifically investigation their magical powers granted by gods, and who have commited more genocides in the last 1300 years, than Rosharans did? Every single Allomancer among protagonists of MIstborn have among their ancestor nobles, some more some less, but all of them do. So if sins of the fathers approach is relevant for Roshar, so we too can blame them. You may have missed the fact that Szeth was breaking down since literal prologue of the first book because of lack of trust in himself and his absolutism. Without either one of those, Szeth would be in much better place mentally. And in the end it is not his moral convictions that Szeth abandons, he instead rediscovers his trust in himself, one that was taken from him by Ishar's lies and manipulations. And of course, he doesn't die. The trial is about whether or not Adolin (and current humans) can be held responsible for crimes that: They didn't know happened until ~2 years ago. Was committed by their ancestors not themselves. Generally speaking, 1) doesn't excuse a crime, but 2) very much means that the person accused didn't commit crimes. The whole 'sins of the father' things has been considered problematic IRL for millenia, even Bible warns against it. And finally, even before "We chose" moment, there is clear dissent in Honorspren ranks, they are not a monolith (what with multiple scenes of dissenters being removed from the chamber). It is Honorspren leadership that has clear goal they want to get, and are not interested in a fair trial. So if you want to treat Honorspren as arbiters of humanity, then their judgements is 'meh, maybe?' at worst. In most of the moments you have been corrected, it was literal text of the books that was used, not WoBs or anything. Those are things you could have known. Ah yes, another of Kaladins crimes: Trying to talk someone out of suicide.

I don't value only reason. I also think it is important to, e.g. give others benefit of doubt (kind of mercy in my mind), show understanding of complicated situations, extend helping hand, etc. However, when presenting a statement as fact, and basing a discussion as if something was fact, reason becomes necessary to judge if the statement in question is truthful or not. And if statement cannot survive such examination, then it behooves everyone to re-examine how they came to that statement in the first place. Because sometimes, emotions and feelings can lead us not to Honor, but to Odium. Like hating on entire human population of planet, for actions others take as well, or even for actions they never took at all. If I cared only about reason, I wouldn't be here in the first place.

Correction, F-Steel doesn't speed up perception to fully match, only some partial compensation (to WoB explicitly says the effect is not as big as the questioner is implying). Also, if it is the physical body being sped up that causes the metals to burn faster, than physical body being slowed down should result in reduced burn for metals. Any cognitive side effects of F-Steel should be relatively irrelevant.

Which part? Oathpact was formed as reaction to Fused existing, and Honor being afraid Surges would destroy Roshar like they destroyed Ashyn. I.e. Singers must have joined Odium before Honor started actively supporting humans. Human Surgebinders only appeared in later desolations (known since Oathbringer I think), so spren didn't actively start supporting humans until much later Conclusion, Singers betrayed Honor, Cultivation and spren and joined Odium during First Desolation. That humans started the First Desolation after leaving Shinovar (after attempts to try and negotiate with Singers didn't go anywhere) is not in dispute I think. Oh, really? The two books where bonded spren are shown to be actively, willfully and systematically lying to their bonded Radiants? Stormfather, who lied to Dalinar about the extent of his powers and purpose Pattern, who lied to Shallan since book one about being her only spren, and in RoW actively lies to her about using the seon box, leading her to think he is the traitor How did they decide to do that, if they don't have free will? Or continue to do that, if the bond brainwashes them? It also disregards the fact that: Both the Radiant and the spren can choose to break the bond of their own volition Bonded spren are shown numerous times to question their Radiant and to push them to change Syl with Kaladin in WoR -> she is pushing him to be better, how would that work if she doesn't have free will and is subsumed by his own thoughts? By that rationale, are all good acts of bonded spren are then actually those of Radiants? Is it Kaladin who is pushing himself to be better, with no external influence? Timbre and Venli in RoW -> Timbre is constantly disappointed in Venli and is pushing her to be more active and courageous, and contradicts her multiple times on her racist against humans (e.g. when Venli wants to ignore the imprisoned Radiants, Timbre pushes her to try and help them) Stormfather and Dalinar -> They constantly but heads, and in WAT we see Stormfather constantly lied to him Sigzil and Vienta -> If she was subsumed as you describe, she would not be angry at him for breaking the bond. After all, she is now free no? Or she would know exactly his intent to protect her (good) in breaking the oath. Since this breaking of Oath is something you heavily critized Sigzil for earlier, I am a bit confused by your stance now. Wouldn't it be honorable to release another creature from bondage like that? So I think there is a lot of evidence against your thesis. Sometimes people (and spren) just change, like everything else. Sometime it is the human who was more changing to do (most Radiant examples from books 1-3) and sometime it is the spren who has some growing to do (Navani and Sibling for example EDIT: though Navani also shifts her stances, and it has been only 10 days) Yes, Nahel bond is sharing of soul. Which means your argument can be trivially inverted, it is the Radiants who are subsumed by spren. Spren's values become Radiants values Would TWoK Kaladin ever become friends with Lighteyes nobles? Must be spren influencing him! Spren's thoughts become their thoughts Would Kaladin protect the man responsible for his brothers death? Must be spren brainwashing him! Or you know, both the Radiants and the spren change as a result of their relationship, nothing nefarious going on. Which is what the book repeatably tells us is what is actually happening, no brainwashing or stealing of free will. If you want an example of someone who was brainwashed, look no further than Dalinar and his interaction with Cultivation. EDIT: And notably, arguing that bonded spren are brainwashed, completely undercuts the climax of Adolin's trial. "WE CHOSE" as Maya said quite forcefully, and as other formerly bonded spren clearly also feel, based on their actions in WAT. I sincerely doubt that we should see Honorspren in Lasting Integrity as correct considering their underhanded tactics, and the narrative clearly arguing otherwise.

Yes she did. From what we know the timeline was : Humans don't fit in Shinovar -> want more space Singers don't want humans out -> Some humans try to go out anyway, wars break out Singers betray Honor and align with Odium, become Fused -> spren likely abandon them at this point at latest Honor creates Heralds All of the above points is roughly few decades Centuries/millennia later -> spren bond humans creating Surgebinders From what has been revealed, Singers turned away from Honor/Cultivation and signed with Odium, because they didn't want to obey them in helping humans, and didn't want humans leaving Shinovar. This could be considered an example of Singers also not respecting the gods, just like humans don't.

Yeah, fair conclusion. It is likely that different Heralds will react differently. Based on what we (don't) know, this is as likely as it just scaling. Perhaps Ghostbloods could first test how rioting/soothing interacts with heavily Invested people, and how this scales? If they find it out it doesn't seem to plateou that would invalidate this strategy, but if it does (or even doesn't get blocked that much) it would be viable tactic to try. That is something that could likely be done in 6 months. They could ask their resident cognitive shadow (Kelsier) for help, if he would be willing. That would be at least one Invested data point. Or they could try to approach 17th Shard, under the guise of doing scientific research, to get them to provide some willing subjects (e.g. Elantrian members of 17th Shard)?

Honestly it is only my experience, and I cannot for everyone with such an illness. I would expect there to be some effect, but how larger and how difficult to overcome is open question. I do think it would be certainly less of an effect than on regular person (due to Investiture), and it would be easier for them to overcome it as well. I am not sure. For some things there seems to be plateou effect, but for Investiture resists Investiture, it seems to just scale with amount of Investiture. I.e. metalminds get progressively more difficult to Push/Pull the more Invested they are, up until they look like piece of Aluminum (Bands of Mourning). Shardplates are far beyond that level, and Shardblades a bit above that as well. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/217/#e7299 ) Living blades are above dead blades (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/41/#e7222 ) And Nightblood is far beyond them all. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/217/#e7299 ) E.g. So for resisting Invested Arts, it seems to be mostly scaling. Whether linear or not, we don't know. Since Heralds are familiar with Elsegates (having used them before) wouldn't they know that Elsegate to Scadrial would take years to traverse? And as such, travelling in CR would be the easier option to get to Scadrial? So one, they wouldn't have reason to enter it, and two, they would know it might be a risk? Also, if the Elsegates are truly always lightspeed limited, that means Ashyn/Roshar Elsegate must have taken few minutes to traverse, which I am not sure is in line with what is shown in WAT. Alternatively, Ashyn and Roshar are much closer together.

As someone with rather severe depression, it really doesn't work like that. Even in very deep moments, if someone threatened something like care about, it would rouse you to action. Emotional Allomancy is not mind control, nor physical control over a body (Hemalurgic constructs excepted). It can also be overcome by strong native emotions. Since the Heralds in question clearly must care about destroying Scadrial to exclusion of any rational thought, I would expect that goal being threatened (i.e. them being threatened) would certainly rouse them to action. Sure, it is open question. But we have one factor that might make Heralds more susceptible to emotional allomancy (their torture) and another that certainly makes them more resistant (their Investiture). As to how much blunting it will be, Returned have equivalent of 2000 Breaths, one human soul is ~2 (per Sunlit Man). Purely on scaling, that would suggest that Returned should be about 1000x more difficult to influence with emotional Allomancy. Ditto then for Heralds. How much stronger is Duralumin fueled emotion blast? We don't know, though Pewter + Duralumin is not 1000x stronger than Pewter alone, so it is likely below that. From that reasoning, even Duralumin fueled emotion blast might be a bit weaker when applied on Herald than regular emotional allomancy is on regular person. But then again, some effect of being Invested are more 'gated', so it is also possible that will be just some set barrier once you get across some threshold (again, like seen in Sunlit Man).

This is the best example of black-and-white thinking I have ever seen. Really, bravo. Scadrial good, Roshar bad, no notes. I won't even bother with pointing out numerous flaws of Scadrian protagonists (e.g. Breeze "I like to invade peoples mind for fun"), because there is clearly no point. I'll point out that that Scadrians killed their god (twice), which is much more discrespectful than Dalinar deciding not to follow the plan of one god, in favor of getting more gods involved. Or Honorspren deciding they want to live actually. And Scadrians joined the side of god who betrayed the other god, Leras and Ati had a deal, create world together, than Ati can destroy it. But Leras betrayed him and sealed him, because he didn't want to follow through. And make no mistake Ruin is as much a god of Scadrians as Preservation is, none of them would exist if it were not for the two of them. BTW did you finally read The Sunlit Man, or Emberdark? If so, I would love to hear your opinion on Scadrians there.

After thinking on it for few minutes, while we don't know for certain, I think we can be pretty sure they don't get reborn in the same spot every time. If they got reborn on Braize in the same spot, Fused would simply put sentries/traps there and capture them immediately. But we know that Heralds spend some time hiding and evading Fused after being killed. So on Braize the spot where they get there likely shifts If on Roshar they got reborn in some fixed spot, I think either humans or Fused would again mark this. So on Braize I think we can be certain it is not a fixed location, on Roshar I would also lean towards it not being the same.

The halting of his mantra is him snapping out of his insensate state as a reaction to outside stimulus. He is muttering his mantra, Fused orders to kill everyone, and Taln reacts to that and stops muttering. I meant that they won't be literally paralyzed by the duralaumin emotion blast. Stun grenades are designed to stun, that doesn't mean their victim cannot try to fight back anyway. And as Taln shows, at least some Heralds can defended themselves purely reactively. Conversely you could think that someone who has experienced torture for decades/centuries will have different thresholds for what is 'stunning'. And per this WoB holding a lot of Breaths (i.e. being Invested) would mean allomancy will have less of an effect Even just on 3rd Oath, Kaladin was Invested enough to count as some Heightening (without any Stormlight in him), and Heralds are at least Returned level in their Investiture. So based on that, Heralds will be more difficult to influence with emotional Allomancy.

Taln is insensenate and still reacts to possibly dangerous stimuli. He catches the dart in WoR, the rampage in WaT. In all of those, Taln is mentally out of it like no one we have seen, and he still reacts. So assuming Herald will react to emotional Allomancy like regular humans and be completely immobilized is an assumption. Hell, in mortal danger quite likely regular human would also react to outside stimuli, they aren't literally stunned just overwhelmed by strong emotions, And Rioting/Soothing can be overcome by stronger native emotions. Nale and Kaladin are immune because of Shardplate, emotional Allomancy cannot penetrate it. But can they do that in 6 months? Because that is the timelimit. Plus shaping of the bubble won't help, because you cannot interact with objects outside of the bubble, Herald included. Also, regarding all the suggested uses of massive amounts of Fortune. Why didn't Ghostbloods use that to obtain information on the Set? In TLM the Set were literally days from taking over the Basin, and yet Ghostbloods had to recruit Marasi to be able to find them and strike at them. So using Fortune to divine various information might not be so easy (see also Renarin and his visions) as we pretend it is.

Taln states on the other hand shows that even when completely insensate, they can still kill hundreds of Invested opponents. Emotional allomancy is not guaranteed to stun them. And if the Herald is either Kaladin or Nale, this option won't work at all. Hmm, maybe? Elend though was frozen for a second in place as well when doing this, so it is a gamble if Herald won't kill you in that moment. Stamp has to be plausible. The only way you can know how to properly place hemalurgy on Heralds, is to experiment on Heralds.

True, but that is also Night Brigade by Era 4, this is centuries earlier. They weren't always this dangerous. And again Heralds are on level beyond that, since they fought Desolations basically alone for first few. Ire in Secret History talk about forces of Threnody wishing to join the main stage, impliying Threnodities aren't a relevent power yet. And the device they have to deal with Cognitive Shadows does nothing to Kelsier, who is Cognitive Shadow And finally, Ire have forces on border of Threnody, which implies they are not overwhelmingly more powerful They see Shades/Threnodies as a problem, they guard against them, but they don't seem able to defeat them. In conclusion, Elantrians, even with centuries of experience, have difficulty dealing just with Shades. So again, I don't think Elantrians can whip up something to perma-kill Herald in 6 months, I don't think they could even with few years.

True, but Night Brigade is powerful because they control Shades, and back in Era 1 they wouldn't have spaceships. If Elantrians were as powerful as people talk of them (i.e. 6 months prep time to permanently kill Herald), they wouldn't have reason to be afraid of them.

I think while Elantrians are soft in application (can do anything), they are much harder in practice, in that they have to know what they are doing. E.g. Lightweaver draws/images object, and then breathes out Light and the illusion is just there. Elantrian has to program everything about it to get the same effect. So they can get nearly arbitrary results (limited by available Investiture), but it will take them a lot of time to get to that point. E.g. by early Era 4, Riina has been alive for millenia, and yet outside of few illusions she doesn't really exhibit any duplication of other Invested Arts, even when it would have been really useful. Few centuries earlier party of Elantrians were deathly afraid of Shades, again showing that despite their theoretical ceiling, in practice they are not necessarily that powerful, even when knowing about the danger beforehand. So i think people see Elantrians as soft (can do anything) magic system, but in actuality they are much harder magic system, being basically the same as Hemalurgy in that what the user knows is the most important part. EDIT: I do count Hemalurgy as hard magic system, because to actually utilize it you have to: Know the spiritweb of subject and its relation to bind points on physical body (either by experimentation or study) Once you have 1), you can replicate the effect reliably, same spike in the same bind points will always do the same thing. It's just that in our theorycrafting on forums, we basically skip over points 1, which is the actually difficult part of Hemalurgy. Even by Era 2, Hemalurgy still primarily relies on stuff discovered by TLR when he held the Well, and that is 1300 years later. WoB on how rare advanced skill with Aons is, and how difficult it is (basically, being that good at Aons is equivalent to being world-class physicist or mathematician)

That is a very good point. Nale casually thrown and completely shattered Shardplate with one hand, which is far beyond any human level strength (physically likely stronger than Plate itself). Taln and his rampage is another evidence of their beyond human strength, as he crushes gemhearts and Fused skulls in his bare hands. So their strength is more in domain of Duralumin+Pewter, quite a bit beyond just Pewter. I think we have a bit of a problem in that we tend to think about Heralds as SuperRadiants, but they are more akin to Feruchemist with unlimited stores + Radiant powers + resurrective immortality on top. Which changes the relevant calculus of defeating them quite a bit. While they died regularly during Desolations, at least one always survived until the end of Desolation, even before they started showing the powers related to Roshar itself. I mean, in the first few Desolations it was Heralds + uninvested humans vs Fused + Regals + Singers, and they still won. Taln is as broken as it gets, and yet still slaughters Fused like there is no tomorrow. If other Heralds have even just a tenth of Taln's skill, this plan would fail, because that strike team would get slaughtered no matter how much you whammy the Herald. I don't think this is feasible. With Hemalurgy knowledge is king but, Ghostbloods have no way of knowing how to spike out Connection to Oathpact. Duralumin spikes both Connection and Identity, and we know you can spike out many types of Connection (to land, to spren, to other people etc.), each of these will likely require different bind point. Ghostbloods cannot really experiment on Heralds to figure out where to place the spike, so ultimately, they cannot spike out the Connection to Oathpact. Additionally, Heralds souls are heavily warped: All but Taln have souls warped by conflict on Ashyn so much that they don't age. Taln had soul warped during his attempt to kill Cultivation Kaladin is the sole exception, though with being Son of Tanavast, maybe not. and warped souls means that bind points would function differently than on human Enough preparation is the key bottleneck. Since even millennia old Elantrians aren't monsters with Bondsmithing + Feruchemy like abilities etc, likely it is much more difficult to replicate the effects of other Invested arts. Unraveling the Oathpact as someone who is not party to it would likely be very difficult. Elantrians are (theoretically) super powerful. But practically, we don't really see that, in Era 1 they are afraid of Shades, when based on how people talk about Elantrians, they should be eating them for breakfast.

Bindpoints are miniscule, milimiter sized targets. No one can hit those in fighting conditions reliably. And again, the only times it was done in fighting conditions, the attacker was guided by Ruin. All other examples of hemalurgy require the subject to be restrained. So theoretically, yes you can do it. Practically? No. Well, they can draw on Fortune. And from Kaladin PoV in WoR, it did sound atium-like, not just being enhanced speed, he didn't even exhibit that yet. That is a big if, considering they draw their powers from SR, where distances don't matter. The only powers that are known to be limited by physical location are those of Sel, so I wouldn't bet on it. Ghostbloods likely don't have access to Compounders (Miles is the only known naturally born Compounder ever), and it cannot be done artificially, at least as far as we know. At best, they might have one Steel compounder, if one was born at the right time, and was of the right age, and was inclined to work with Ghostbloods. And that compounder would still be inferior to Herald in every single other way. And Heralds likely can keep up with Compounding, considering Taln could beat TLR. After all those decades/centuries of torture on Braize, I think Heralds have quite high pain tolerance. And by Era 3 Scadrial should be able to make tasers, so they could be viable. EDIT: @Nitpicking Four of those + 16 other people, two of whom were dragons (Cultivation, Valor), plus the implication that Adonalsium might have let himself be killed. And Hoid has the one Dawnshard that doesn't have any offensive utility whatsoever, in fact it hinders him in that way. Sure, killing Hoid permanently is more difficult, because he will just heal from any remaining cells of his. But fighting Hoid? Far easier than fighting a Herald. As to the attack methods: I think Nightblood is out, as anyone trying to use it would have to beat Herald in skill, and that just won't happen. Anti-Light then is the remaining option for permanently killing them, but that requires Ghostbloods to obtain Raysium. The only Raysium they had is now lost in SR, so that cannot be accessed. Fused might still have some, but it was rare even when Rayse was Odium, and Taravangian explicitly will be a miser with his Investiture. So that will be a bottleneck. Even if they get Raysium, how will they manage to hit Herald with it? In melee that won't be an option, ranged attacks in sufficient number might overwhelm them, but Herald's speed and fortune still present a problem. Some form of incapacitation will be necessary. And finally, open question on how Oathpact and its supply of Investiture will interact with any damage done by anti-light. Heralds are far more Invested than Fused, so you will need much more anti-light than just a single gemstone likely. And out-of-the-box option: Since Heralds don't seem genocidal in general, Ghostbloods could just ask other Heralds to help them stop them. That is I think the easiest option, though a bit of a cop-out Also, this neglects that Heralds might also have some equipment available on Roshar, i.e. even regular plate armor will make attacking them with Raysium much more difficult. Or any of the assorted fabrials, such as alerters, and Heralds are aware of those since many of them existed in more primitive forms in Heraldic eras.

I still don't think Hemalurgy can be done like that in a fight, so I would put more on the anti-light. I think there will be a problem, because between the first person throwing a grenade, there will be a few seconds where Herald can move completely out of its range with their speed. They have also have that atium-like power that seems to let them anticipate danger. Would those be effective with the Herald healing, now that Oathpact is restored? On attack line, maybe something like a large taser/taser mine? Something that will incapacitate them, and prevent them from using their body. We know healing wouldn't help you with taser, and your strength and speed would be useless once it hits you. But you still have to catch them off-guard, and that will be difficult.

No he doesn't, he decribes how Riina would be doing risk/reward, and that she would think maybe she can curse him again, but then again maybe not. And then she bails, which tells us how confident she is in that. But what Aon? I dont mean that literally, but we have seen Elantrians with centuries of experience, and they are afraid of: Dragons (Riina) Hoid (Riina) Shades (party in Secret History) Heralds are certainly somewhere above Shades in dangeroussness, as well as above Hoid. And in neither of the cases above do Elantrians just pull out pre-prepared Aons to deal with situation, not even for Shades, and those are a known danger to Elantrians. Era 3, ok My problem is that outside of Vasher, no one seems to know that is possible, so Ghostbloods don't have any reason to want to try it. Even Denth (another of FIve Scholars) didn't believe Vasher it could be done. And there is caveat to point 2: It can be done without cooperation or consent if there is a great disparity in Investiture (girl with no Breath vs Returned with hundreds of Breaths on top). Considering Vasher ends up killing Denth, and as you said he tried to avoid that, then I am quite confident if he could have forcibly changed his memories, he would have. So either it is not possible to do forcibly, if the opponent has Returned level Investiture, or it is a delicate process that cannot be done in a life-or-death situation. True, I didn't think of that. Based on what Truskour said, we should assume Era 3, or just before. Also, Heralds can leave as of end of WAT, as can anyone else, that particular binding was undone. Hemalurgy is delicate art, so I am not sure you could stick someone like that on the fly in the middle of a fight with them. The only times Hemalurgy was done in a fight, it was always guided by Ruin. In other cases the subjects is usually sedated, or bound, and it is treated like surgery. Since we are talking Era 3, all of the Heralds will have undergone TherapyTM from Kaladin, the man who resisted full blast of all Herald suffering combined. So they should be somewhat better off than earlier (Taln shoud for example be basically functional, since he will be protagonist in second half of Stormlight). Plus them being heavily Invested any effect will be lessened. And finally, if it is Nale or Kaladin, they will be straight up immune thanks to Shardplate. The factor is more like ~10-12x, and Heralds can move at supersonic speeds (see Taln in WAT), which would let them cross the bubble (assuming roughly 6 meter radius, which is generous) in ~0.018 second, or 0.18 second IRL. Even if the compression factor was 60x, Herald could still get out of the bubble in basically a second or less. So nicrosil or something would be basically required to get compression factors that are necessary. Of course, then the Cadmium savant is in the bubble with the Herald. The above is also ignoring any Surges they might use, or their Atium-like ability to avoid danger. Unless you also dig it in beneath them, they can escape through there. Though Aluminum cage is probably among the easier options for capturing them at least. All of that would 'just' kill them no? So they would get reborn on Braize and could go again.

Hoid let himself be cursed, so that he could become an Elantrian. I doubt that Herald will just let you do that to them. Plus Hoid is nowhere near Heralds, except in healing. I don't think he can do that forcibly to someone Invested, if he could he would have saved himself a lot of trouble with Denth. Or in many other situations. Plus I doubt Ghostbloods would have anyway of knowing such commands are possible, since it seems even out of Five Scholars only Vasher knows about them. And since last we have seen him, Scadrian kidnapped and tortured him, I don't think he would be inclined to help. Awakened metalminds don't really exist yet (Era 2) no? Or if we are talking Era 4, I don't think we know enough about either the technology or Heralds abilites/status to say. Well if you spiked them into a body like that, they could just kill the body to get out, and then reform their body no?

Wasn't a problem with the Elantrian stamp that it basically overwrote Shais personality, so among other things so she no longer saw herself as Ghostblood? If so, this might not be workable. Additionally, this still doesn't address how would Elantrian take out a Herald. I think they are sufficiently Invested that you cannot fiddle with their minds like that. Or what did you mean by Vasher-style memory fiddling? Their bodies are their physical bodies, and I don't think the hemalurgic stapling would overcome the Oathpact anyway.