Kyn

While the principles of novel-writing suggest that characters intended to come from cultures the most like ours will speak the most like us to foster a sense of familiarity, that may not be what’s going on with the Heralds. I mean, I suspect it is, but it may not be (just) because they came from a world like Earth or cultures similar to modern ones. It may also be because the Heralds have lived long enough to see their own languages de-formalize, and then lived long enough after that to want to treat all new languages just as informally. In the real world, languages tend to get less formal over time. It’s almost as if, collectively, speakers of any given language start to drop parts of words and sentences to simplify. In the shorter term, people within the same culture over time tend to use increasingly less-“correct” speech patterns, becoming more likely to use fragments or slang. Maybe the Heralds can’t be bothered with formality, maybe they don’t want to put the extra effort into speaking in more complicated manners (or learning the proper over common-dialect speech), maybe they don’t want to waste time, maybe they’re just disrespectful of (young cultures’) conventions – or of the languages/peoples themselves. It just seems like there are also in-universe reasons immortal beings couldn’t be bothered with speaking properly. And honestly, one of those reasons might just be personalities. The individuals whose speech patterns we’re looking at as examples seem like they might be extra disrespectful or dismissive of the people to whom they’re talking, or of the cultures whose languages they’re speaking. Taln seems less…abrupt.

Awesome. Where is it confirmed?

I just suspect an “Adolin Trash Party” thread isn’t where to expect nuanced examinations rather than paeans. Yes, people might be idealizing Adolin, but if they want to focus on the way a flawed human being supports friends and family rather than the ways he’s fallen short and even betrayed his own moral codes, I’m pretty sure that’s literally what this thread’s for. Also, I don’t love anything as much as most of this thread seems to love Adolin, but his motive wasn’t just revenge. I suspect not even mostly, or it would have happened long before and been slower and more painful. His trigger was Sadeas’ unrepentant promise to do more of the same. Killing Sadeas was a rational way to prevent a man who was above the law from following through with threats to the people Adolin loved. A utilitarian principle…just, you know, enacted in an un-thought-through moment of passion. Arguably, it was just as much an effort to support his loved ones as his more admirable actions.

I very much doubt Moash. I can see the extremity of his actions to cut off part of himself as seeming like pruning; but then, the change he made in himself didn’t give him more room for growth, it stuck him at a specific plateau. Getting rid of his emotions and connections – his humanity, essentially – was a choice to excise the one thing Cultivation seems to want the Nightwatcher to grasp. I guess if Moash is forced to accept his humanity back, he could relate with the Nightwatcher’s journey to understand humanity that had been so distant, but that still leaves him out of alignment with Cultivation’s Intent. To me, even if Moash is somehow redeemed, someone who chose to stagnate – to remove all potential for growth save as a tool or killer, to refuse to admit to being wrong as is typically necessary in order to change, and gave up parts of himself so he wouldn’t have to hurt and develop – would be a terrible fit for the understudy of a being that is geared toward growth. To be fair, I don’t know who is a good fit for the Nightwatcher – and it’s more than possible bonding with her requires something entirely different than potential for growth or willingness to enact change. But Cultivation would want the Nightwatcher to bond with someone who could advance her humanity, if anyone. And the Nightwatcher’s curiosity in this regard suggests she’d want someone who embraced their humanity rather than discarding it.

Genuinely curious, how does genderfluidity relate to the rest of what you said?

No, @Honorless seems to be claiming that honor as people are capable of conceiving or interacting with it is not a monolith; can be viewed and applied contradictorily by different cultures and peoples; and has been both used as a requirement to go to war to protect and abused as an excuse to go to war for other reasons. I think they’re saying that honor and war are intertwined not because it is ideal-concept honorable to war, but because people use their personal imperfect (and sometimes entirely instrumental) ideas of honor to justify or impel war. In their words: And that first line is kind of my point in why Roshar needs a Just War Doctrine. We expect a good surgeon who has (or chooses) to amputate to do what is necessary to cut off the leg with as little trauma as possible to surrounding tissue, and to completely avoid harming unrelated parts. Shouldn’t we be able to expect a good general who has (or chooses) to engage in war to target enemy soldiers with only as much force as necessary to defeat them, and to strive to avoid harming noncombatants in the process? Not inflicting more pain on more people than unavoidable seems worthwhile. Particularly for the Radiants, who swear to Journey before destination. @Adonoliusm I’m not sure I get what you’re saying.

@Ba-Ado-Fisherman…you might want to spoiler-tag speculative stuff from Shardcasts or wherever.

Once a war has started, isn’t it the responsibility of those who consider themselves honorable to behave honorably? Just War principles have been coopted to justify wars, to convince people that they are right to kill for the reasons they have chosen, but they don’t actually do that. Their purpose is to mitigate the usage and consequences of war. A war can’t necessarily become just, but it can adhere to Just War principles that avoid causing more harm than necessary to achieve a worthy goal. Just because a war’s origins are not right does not mean that continuing to engage in it to prevent genocide of one’s own people is also wrong. Generally, regardless of original justifications or lack thereof, survival is deemed acceptable to fight for and genocide is deemed unacceptable to fight for. At this point, and throughout the Desolations, the humans are literally fighting for survival, since Odium intends to destroy them. So a cause that was originally unjust has at least partly morphed into one that most cultures agree to be worthwhile. However, engaging in atrocities or targeting innocents negates any claims to a just war or honor in Just War Theory. In Vorinism, the Almighty=Honor. There are two components to Just War principles for a reason. Even if the Alethi or other humans know that their originating cause is unjust but continue to fight now for reasons they see as just (survival of the species or their individual cultures), or simply don’t care about right cause, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t engage in right behavior – Jus in Bello. In fact, evidence says that they do have standards, just not consistently applied. Just because the Alethi venerate waging war does not mean they elevate every method of waging war, or else there wouldn’t be ripples from Dalinar burning down a city. However, you’re absolutely correct that we see a history of disregard for moderation in Alethi warfare. Still, the lack of burnt-Earth tactics, the fact that others thought Sadeas crossed lines, and the continued existence and sometimes following of The Codes of War, makes me think there’s a place for Jus in Bello, right behavior in war, at least. Especially with the Radiants returned now, and the Thrill elsewhere, and multiple other societies involved in addition to the Alethi. However, the reasons for adhering to a Just War Doctrine are far more practical, as I suggested. Even in-world, the Fused, who have a continual record of their history of warfare through the Desolations, have realized it simply makes sense to follow Jus in Bello principles. Their implementation varies on an individual level, but the overall policy seems to be preserving most of conquered humanity in familiar roles rather than exterminating or torturing them. If Odium has not changed his plans to destroy humanity, this would have to be a choice made because it reduces the cost of war for the Singers. It may take evidence from the actions of someone softer-hearted to sway dispassionate Jasnah, but I expect her ruthless practicality to bring her to similar conclusions that Jus in Bello has disproportionate dividends. With the humans’ existing culture and even the warlike Alethi’s past restraint, it seems like the advent of new Radiants should be propagating codified Just War Doctrine, or at least Jus in Bello principles, amongst the allies.

And what Adolin did being murder even by his own admission does not make it crazy. In no way does his being responsible for this crime negate that his choice to stop Sadeas was a rational response to somebody who intended to continue to ruin lives. Committing a crime to prevent harm that Adolin saw no other way of stopping might not be commendable, but it is wholly rational, and therefore not crazy. In fact, your argument that Sadeas’ choice to knowingly and intentionally commit a war atrocity of mass murder by betraying 8000 allies to their deaths was not a capital (or even punishable) crime in Alethi society reveals exactly why Adolin’s decision was rational. The law and social mores would not prevent Sadeas from engaging in more harm, so Adolin did so. On the other hand, Sadeas taunting one of his victims about how past actions that led to nearly 6000 deaths were only the beginning was not rational, because it instilled desperation. It was likely just a function of his cocky personality, but could have been a sign of the posited Roshar Crazy because of how extreme he had grown and how he antagonized someone who would have nothing to lose if Sadeas followed through on his threats.

She literally created – and implemented – a tool to kill immortal creatures just because she wanted to end a war in a final way. That’s what she was doing with her scholarly discourse. Her willingness to cross any line and sacrifice anything in order to advance her purposes is separated from morality, decency, or loyalty. Her side is scared because she doesn’t care who her knowledge helps or harms, and she has (and continues seeking) a lot of dangerous knowledge. People are just tools that she could gladly do away with, but would prefer – and is equipped, through her voracious learning – to use in any manner that furthers her ends. Her research is scarier than evil villain monologues, and her creation of weapons of mass destruction is more dangerous than a violent murder spree.

To be fair, Adolin thinks he did what needed to be done because said highprince promised to ruin and betray his father again. Not regretting isn’t the same as thinking he did nothing wrong. He does consider it murder, after all. And to be technical, that would not be cold-blooded murder, by any definition. It was done in a moment of emotion, and at a moment of perceived threat (no matter how disproportionate the response). Frankly, Jasnah’s the only Kholin we’ve seen kill in cold blood, regularly using assassins and choosing to create situations where she had to kill. She would argue that Adolin’s action was quite sane, a reasonable response to an unreasonable threat, I suspect; although she certainly would have sent assassins to do the job rather than potentially drawing attention to her family like a hot-blooded killing could.

Generally, when someone tries to commit murder and fails, that makes them less effective, not less evil. From RoW ch. 14 So, an attempted complete genocidal vector that instead decimated the population isn’t a strike in her favor. It’s only made worse by her willingness to sacrifice her own kind as well…ends justifying the means taken to its most homicidal extreme.

While there is a long history of war in Roshar, there doesn’t appear to be a tradition of anything like a Just War Doctrine. This is the principal that going to war requires the right causes (Jus ad bellum) and that fighting a war demands right actions (Jus in bello). I find it unlikely that peoples who revered Honor would not have come up with this at some point in history, and so much is lost or hidden that they very well could have. But it’s surprising not to see something along these lines at least proposed as the Radiants start up again. From BBC’s Just War Principles summary: We don’t know much about war culture (beyond just trying to survive) in the time before and during Desolations, and it’s entirely possible (likely, even) that at least certain Radiant Orders ascribed to something like the above tenets. I don’t think a Rosharan (or at least an Alethi) version of Just War Doctrine would rely on the same assumptions many ancient scholars in our world had: that war is an evil, but that if it is the only way to avoid a greater evil, then it should be engaged in as morally as possible. The Ardents we’re familiar with preach that fighting is the most important devotion, because of the Tranquiline Halls. It’s interesting that most of what Honor is stated to be about is connections and oaths, yet his followers do seem to revere the concept of honor, as well. Because they purport to follow Honor, I’m giving the Ardents the benefit of the doubt that they would distinguish between Dalinar’s actions fighting for survival at the Tower the day Sadeas betrayed Dalinar’s 8000 troops, and at the Rift when Dalinar burned the whole city. However, I’d like to explore where and why that line is drawn. Is there textual evidence that the issues individuals have with Dalinar’s war crimes are institutional (I got this idea from the thread Reactions to Dalinar’s Crime)? How would any current Rosharan human and Singer cultures create and implement these kinds of “moral warfare” guidelines? Who would be involved, who would be for and against and why, and what would be the best ways to ensure Urithiru and its allies adopted this kind of doctrine? The Oaths seem to provide some basis, depending on the Order Windrunners trained under Kaladin might have picked some of these principles up by osmosis, but has, say, their honorable behavior against the Shanay-im been codified? What would a Just War framework for Roshar – or at least for Urithiru’s forces and allied/neutral forces – look like, what would be the impetus behind it, and how would it be implemented? I have way too many ideas about all of this, so I’m just going to pose some of my biggest concerns regarding the likelihood of current leadership at Urithiru aiming for a Just War Doctrine. Kaladin: Dalinar: Jasnah: With a religion that glorifies becoming a soldier in the afterlife, it’s credible that this sort of Just War consideration wouldn’t have picked up steam amongst Alethi Ardentia. There are, however, multiple religious orders in Roshar, and scholars from wide arrays of perspectives. Even if none of them have an existing Just War framework, with the Radiants returning, one should, logically and morally, be established soon.

@yulyulk That throwaway line from the very end of RoW ch. 16 gets at a lot of what you’re saying: Even though Dalinar seems, in ch. 10, to flinch from mentions of who the real Voidbringers were, here he is, still labeling an entire group of people enemies. I suspect the reason we don’t get much of a response to Dalinar’s previous crimes has to do with the moral limitations of the characters and societies in the book. This is actually a realistic portrayal, so that statement isn’t a ding against the writing, even if I wish we saw more reactions from Dalinar’s sons, and maybe the Windrunners. What we do see is very much in character, though. And in the real world, people tend to brush under the rug crimes they know they aren’t going to suitably address. Even though each individual in this story has their own likely reasons for not reacting more…obstreperously, it’s a bit of a letdown to only hear (glossed-over) reactions from (I think) out of the main people it affects, Dalinar, Renarin, and Adolin, and then out of everybody else, Kaladin. Dalinar seems to be avoiding the level of destruction he was willing to inflict at the Rift, even against enemies he doesn’t consider human, so it’s likely many others see this level of change as one of numerous reasons to assume he’s a different person. I feel like he might consider the matter largely settled after hearing his dead wife forgive him, too. Otherwise, it would be odd that he shows more of an emotional reaction to the Parshendi revelations, in this book. In light of Jasnah’s remorseless perspective on how to deal with the Parshendi, I’m not sure it could be a surprise she isn’t worked up over Dalinar’s past atrocities. I suspect that she is simply too Alethi (or calculating) to truly condemn actions that accomplished a favorable outcome in a war, however brutal the cost. Especially when it put down a threat left over from previous mercy. Navani is the one we see questioning the way the Windrunners and Heavenly Ones restrain themselves in RoW, so we’re unlikely to see censure for Dalinar’s past burnt-earth tactics from somebody pushing for more fighting to the death. I suspect Shallan is too caught up in her own internal state and her tasks to spend bandwidth on an issue that probably strikes too close to home for somebody who killed both her parents. And somebody who thinks she’s somehow worse than everybody making mistakes around her. Adolin says Kaladin’s learned to worry about his squad and cut out extraneous information (RoW ch. 12), but even so, Kaladin’s still thinking about Adolin killing Sadeas. The way he similarly elides what Dalinar did makes me think addressing it for real was past his emotional capacity in that depressive state, but it would Venice if it’s dealt with later, if only because he’s a Windrunner and a whole city was burned down. I don’t think we could expect more of a reaction from Renarin when he’s working so hard not to think about what his father did. It’s not like reiterating that denial repeatedly would give us any more of his emotional response. And he doesn’t much know what to do with his emotions even in more pleasant situations, like when Rock hugged him at the end of Oathbringer. But that means he should have some sort of meltdown later, when he has to deal with this reality – potentially as a part of the progression of his oaths. Adolin, though. We basically see his reaction from Kaladin’s perspective in ch. 12, talking about how his father has been wrong in the past, and then, finally, in RoW ch. 21, we see him react to his father. A poignant moment of suppressing a verbal response because he wasn’t sure if it would be anger, frustration, or shame; the admission he couldn’t forgive his father; and the acceptance that he was making his own way in the world even if his father disapproved of some choices. And because this is Adolin, even though everything he does and tries to be after this is built on the determination to be useful in his own way, he doesn’t dwell on the emotions that seethe within. It’s not surprising we don’t see them revisited directly again and again, instead seeing him blaze his own path in response. I still wish we could have, though. I’m sure we’ll see more of a resolution of Adolin’s feelings on this matter in the next book, but it seems less likely we’ll get something from anybody else.

I don’t think you’re imagining it, but I do think we have to be careful to note, as you do, that the Roshar Crazy is a real, external effect the world is inflicting on its residents rather than a problem with their states of mind. Crazy as they may seem, these characters are actually behaving astonishingly normally given their environments and natures. It’s not a delusion for Szeth to hear the voices of those he’s slain if those voices are a real, magically-fueled phenomenon literally haunting him. It’s not a sanity problem to be inflexibly wedded to one particular idea of honor/freedom/learning/etc., and intolerant of other perspectives, if that idea is literally what you are composed of. It probably isn’t as severe of a sanity problem as it might be in our world for Szeth to so inflexibly hold to his ideas of Honor and Order that he becomes an assassin, considering that he resides in a world where it’s likely he had a literal mystical connection to something that either was or entrenched that kind of unwavering ideal in him. We would be more likely to consider him influenced, not insane, if electrical stimulation had been used to narrow his focus the way the Roshar Crazy effect did. That’s probably the most apt rationale for this. If my assumptions are wrong, and the Roshar Crazy effect is so new that Ba-Ado-Mishram’s imprisonment caused it, that should be pretty clear in the Heralds’ history when we get it. And will make that event even more momentous than it already looks. My guess for now, though, is that something about Roshar’s Investment causes the Unmade, and potentially other ideas to a lesser extent, to influence people like controlled substances or brain stimulation. I’m assuming it’s all somehow due to the world’s free Investment. But I also think it might be worthwhile to separate the Roshar Crazy from what we see of personified idea(l)s like spren. They could be more an embodiment of the effect, a part of its cause, rather than just victims of it like Humans and Singers. Which might make them more susceptible to the Roshar Crazy, or just so narrowly focused as the one thing they embody that they are extreme and seem unbalanced. Aren’t the spren, at least as far as they believe, overwhelmingly representations of one single facet of “human” emotion/drives/concepts? In a world where people may literally Connect to specific interpretations of ideas that suit them or that they enact, it makes sense for that echo chamber effect to make those people more confined to, and extreme in, those interpretations. In a world where mystical forces are, effectively, constantly Rioting particular peoples’ emotions in regards to certain ideas, we can’t expect moderation on those ideas. And in a world where literal and figurative ghosts don’t let the past stay in the past, those with long or fraught histories are likely to be inflicted with instability by said ghosts. So if there is a single, overarching source of the Roshar Crazy, I’d guess it’s the same thing that makes it likely ideas will manifest, spren will spontaneously come into being/attain sentience, and the (potentially cognitive shadows of the) dead will linger/communicate.

I don’t think that’s what Glys meant. Let’s look at the way Glys talks in general, though. All from RoW, ch. 54 Short version: I’m pretty sure Glys meant “I give you my sympathy” and just didn’t have the right word. Long version: So, when he was talking to Renarin in this context in Oathbringer, ch. 117: It seems likely Glys literally meant “You have my sympathy” – so basically, “I’m sorry,” “I feel for you,” or “my condolences,” said by a non-native English speaker.

Ah, thank you. You’re right, I should definitely be more precise. I realize that iron weapons not being usable as thin and light as steel doesn’t make an equivalent mass of iron denser, but iron weapons tending to be thicker is certainly not evident from my wording. And absolutely, “brittle” refers to high-carbon steels, not much more malleable pure iron, so thanks for keeping my mishmashed allusions from misleading anyone. I genuinely have no idea. I don’t know if, let alone how, Taravangian’s body not being left behind affects Odium presenting himself in physical form, if that’s what he does. I was just assuming that if Odium can channel power through his vessel Taravangian’s body even after it has been possibly subsumed into the Shard, that might permit for a purer expression of his power than if Odium tried to work his abilities through another person. But it’s a speculation about what could be different about Odium’s power, given certain human channels, not an actual theory of how Odium physically manifests or what became of Taravangian’s physical form.

Whew, good. Tidal issues made adding moons 1 or 2 at a time a sanity-straining proposition.

Because sanity is overrated, I’m going to counter your invocation with my own, and posit that there were no moons until the Shards arrived.

Rhythm of War Ch. 99 (emphasis mine): That’s…not the way statistics and debates work. A person is only as likely to be correct as their information and interpretations are accurate. If two people argue and the person with a vastly more accurate model wins (nearly) every single debate, that’s statistically likely...because statistics expect a better model perform and predict proportionately better. In debates about historical events, whoever’s assumptions about the actual situation are most similar to the reality (or least dissimilar), whoever’s reading of the personalities and relationships is more insightful, and whoever most closely recreates the social and cultural environment is dramatically more likely to be right...even consistently. In fact, it is to be expected that if somebody misunderstood the historical and cultural setting and personalities, they would be highly likely to be wrong nearly all of the time. That is probably most of the reason for Jasnah being fairly consistently wrong in this particular case. A person like Jashah, who relies so heavily on learning, might paradoxically be disadvantaged by her preference for data and reason. She needs a lot of information or observation to know enough about individual participants in an action to use their personalities and emotionality to guide her predictions. She’s unlikely to accurately assess human causes behind events if her own extreme rationality makes her assume historical events had similarly rational actors, because this rarely actually happens – most human decisions are emotional or reactive and only justified afterwards. Most people aren’t Jashah. Yes, Jasnah’s particular, rigorous and data-oriented scholarly tendencies make her well-suited to predicting what is most likely to happen given enough input data, or what pattern of events is likely, or what is statistically probable or most likely across a wide number of events (which is how statistics work). But these same tendencies ill suit her to judge why individual humans do what they do, or what will happen in any particular circumstance about which she must make situational assumptions rather than having concrete data.

@LewsTherinTelescope Questions ≠ Complexity. A theory making more intuitive sense doesn’t make it simpler. Occam’s Razor posits that the theory with the fewest assumptions, a general analogue for the simpler theory, is the more acceptable theory if multiple plausible theories account for the same evidence. Shardic Nature Theory: the nature of Shards and their Intent confers particular abilities on certain Shards, and renders these abilities in specific respects off-limits to others. This theory requires only that single assumption to explain both Odium’s only-9 Surges and Voidlight’s failure to suppress certain abilities. Plus, it explains other Cosmere events. How many assumptions are required if we consider the theory that Odium’s choice to limit the Surges he granted, and his Voidlight’s failure to make the fabrial suppress Adhesion, and its failure to suppress Lift’s Progression, all have distinct causes not bound up by the nature of the Shards? And that theory doesn’t even touch anything beyond Odium’s Surges. It’s vital to question how Intent-based or other restrictions limit any Shard from granting particular abilities tied closely enough to other Shards. Or even if that’s the mechanism for those restrictions. We can wonder if Shards just oppose one another enough to willfully avoid interacting with (conferring or suppressing) abilities favored by other Shards, of if they physically cannot do so. We can even disagree about the likelihood of universally- and consistently-applied Shardic limitation potentially based on Intent. The existence of those questions about how a theory works in no way makes a simple theory complicated. It still posits that a single (possibly composite) effect universally limits all Shards in the exact same way. The alternative still posits that several distinct factors are required to explain the Odium’s 9 Surges and failures to suppress. When fewer assumptions explain vastly more facts/observations, that’s definitely simpler.

Yeah, I had that feeling too. Anyway, I saw that post you quote, but Odium intentionally keeping Adhesion from the Fused to nerf their power would only answer the question of why Odium seemingly couldn’t grant Adhesion. Assuming Odium simply chose not to grant Adhesion does more than contradict what the characters believe, something that could admittedly be mistaken. It also lacks the elegance of explaining why Odium’s Voidlight didn’t suppress either Adhesion or Progression. For such a theory to be convincing would require that it be supplemented with an explanation for this failure to suppress, not just for the lack of granting Adhesion. Furthermore, that theory requires a double standard – a conscious implementation of powers, which you have argued against in regards to the effects of the other Shards here: A theory is simply more convincing when it evinces logical consistency. It is not logically consistent to assume one god intentionally limited powers conferred to his agents out of fear for their potential power, while also insisting the other gods did not intentionally choose powers to grant. Yes, in a world with such interfering gods, divine intervention and individual Shardic choices are a viable potential reason for many things. It’s not necessary for there to be an underlying “Shardic Physics” of Intent explaining all this evidence, despite being the solution the characters believe in and one in-world events support. It’s just neater. I tend to prefer a parsimonious theory that enforces a single set of universally-applied constraints and opportunities that explain all observed evidence. That’s a personal preference, but scientifically, when one possible solution provides a reliable, consistent effect across tests/observations, it’s more plausible. Occam’s Razor suggests that a more complicated explanation is only likely to be the correct one if it better explains observed evidence.

In the WoB @LewsTherinTelescope quotes, Brandon says we’re looking at different ratios of the same two Shards’ metals. So, we can assume different ratios. However, if we consider (and dramatically oversimplify) real-world metalworking, saying the Shardblades are all made out of the same metal could be viable in the sense that we say lots of things are made out of steel that have entirely different compositions, characteristics, and functions. But they still have those different compositions, characteristics, and functions, which will likely become apparent if anyone analyzes this. They can be usefully thought of as a monolith, but they’re not uniform. More detailed, completely nontechnical consideration of Blades’ metal: That is an excellent hypothesis. Overpowering a Shard should take more power just like interfering with any other signal requires equivalent strength. I do wonder, though, if the vessel would limit Odium’s ability to bring his power to bear. Like, Odium might be impossible for even an invigorated, Sibling-supported Navani to counter in Taravangian’s form, yet be possible to counter if he were limited to what he could channel through Moash. The same way he seemed faceable in Dalinar’s visions until he showed more of his power.

I’ve been specifically differentiating the two – granting vs. fueling – where some posters have not. Which WoB is that? There are apparently a lot I’ve lost or never seen. I’m pretty sure I said nothing about them intentionally working together, only working together? And nothing at all about them choosing what they grant or deny. Because they’re conscious, any interaction could be intentional, but I never assumed conscious intent (or consciousness behind Intent) was necessary for any interaction on the parts of forces undergirding reality. Fundamental forces interact in very proscribed ways in our universe without any consciousness guiding them. There’s no reason Intent can’t be (just, or also in addition to conscious driving of effects) a fundamental spiritual force as integral to the way reality works, and as automated in its effects and abilities to interact with other Intents, as fundamental physical forces here are. Great! Please share. I think we’re all here to hear these kinds of explanations. Because we still have awhile to wait for author confirmation of what brought the Fused into their particular power sets, and how (if at all) that relates to what they were (and potentially what Spren they held in their gemhearts) before becoming Fused.

RoW ch. 64: