Trusk'our

I wonder if this is where we'll see the start of automatic Unsealed Metalminds- ones that can drain or tap a person's attributes without their consent. If so, Copperminds would be a terrifying form of brainwashing.

In WaT, Shallan comments on how she believed it was her double Spren bond that was pulling her into the CR whenever she tried using Transformation. There's more "weight" on that end than present in your typical Radiant bond. This makes me wonder, could a bunch of Spren drag a Physical Realm being into Shadesmar? Say, an enclave of Cryptics believes they need a particular human to solve an abstract problem for them, and one-hundred of them travel to and pull on the person with Connection. Or, if a person tried to bond an Unmade that existed solely in the CR, and it decided to reach out as well, would it possibly pull them into Shadesmar? Or, stretching this mechanism a bit more, could a large swarm of Emotion Spren possibly pull a human there? Not sure they'd even try with their limited cognition, but it would be interesting to see. It would certainly make a fun wives tale that turned out to be true.

Great Scadrian waffle cook, this thread was way more popular than I was expecting. Maybe I should do this sort of thing more often. Not really, I was just trying to come up with a story beat that could be used to flesh out the specifics of the scenario more, but I'm not very good at it and was impatient, so I posted before I added too much detail. No, sorry. It was just an idea I've had half baked in my brain for a while now. Basically, what if you had to find a way to kill a Herald, Kelsier style? What, specifically, would you plan to make the most of it? I hadn't fully settled on which Era to impose, but I'm thinking around Era 3 is good, maybe right before. Enough time for a Herald to be corrupted or otherwise turned by Taravangian. And, they have their Honorblades and Oathpact back. I was also initially thinking you'd have to travel to Roshar to eliminate them, but I don't think that's strictly necessary if plans can be made for taking them out of Scadrial since they are planning on assaulting that planet anyway. I'll probably have to polish up the into some more.

An interesting idea. I hadn't considered it before. It seems likely, given all we know. Plus, having a big conduit for power there would be a cool plot point for the Voidlight Archive, one that Tetribution overlooked initially. Maybe there are more moon pieces there to block such senses? I also don't recall it being explicitly stated that the Lanceryn needed the Dawnshard's presence to grow, just that they needed the bigger Mandras that lived there, but it's been a while since I read Dawnshard and it would track pretty well.

Your mission: Alright then, any ideas?

Well. . . Stormlight Archive spoilers So this isn't terribly implausible. I think it could work.

I think it empowers the wielder rather than operating independently. There are arguments for either direction, but even Deadplate can respond to the wearer's Intent to a degree, such as when donning or doffing it (even coming off on it's own if the wearer dies). Sounds to me like there is a type of Bond, albeit weak. It also increases the reflexes of the user, which could not be achieved through purely external augmentation. Deadplate does interfere with a Radiant's ability to Surgebind if I recall, which would suggest that it would interfere with the Allomancer. Or, it might be like with Unsealed Metalminds, and the innate power of a Pewterarm would be fine compared to a bonded piece of Investiture. Hard to say right now, but I'm leaning towards there being a level of interference, but if overcome would allow you to make your Plate a little better. Maybe even generate a Resonace with the mixing powers? Edit: I'd also like to bring up, how do we know that Deadplate will interfere with one's powers? I'm sure it's a thing, but all I can remember is Dalinar's vision where he's Lashed by someone else to fly and his Plate would interfere. That's not reliable though, since it isn't even the wearer's Investiture at play. Kaladin did wear a Deadplate helmet in WoR to block incoming attacks, and though it was very small it didn't noticeably affect his internal Stormlight abilities (other than feeding on his Investiture to sustain itself). Did we have a WoB or book section I'm forgetting?

Would being a Compounder have any affect on their ability to do that? Every example we've seen thus far shows it empowering their Feruchemy with their Allomancy, not the other way around. If anything, Savantism, Hemalurgy, Lerasium, or nicrosil/duralumin would probably do the trick better since they're known to strengthen Allomancy.

That's fair. Tin Allomancy especially has felt a bit extra "magical" to me- what with Spook being able to completely ignore cloth covering his eyes. Maybe the Investiture is filling in the gaps a bit. That's all I can think of there. I guess if you're a Savant and you have super-powered sight, maybe x-ray vision could be done. Maybe. You know what? It probably would work. It's cool enough Brandon would be likely to throw it in.

This one, right? I feel like this is just a very, very extended version of what humans already do with their sight. Other senses that a Compounder couldn't store initially (like sensing electricity or viewing other wavelengths of light) shouldn't be on the table as far as I'm aware.

Upon further consideration-

Talking about their higher-end combat potential, accounting for non-Terken Hazkillers who can have swords, shields, and bows, probably pretty decent. Not only could a Lord Mastrel with 15-20 ribbons shield themselves with bulk sand deposits, they could whip out an incredibly fast, flexible, and razor edged ribbon or twelve to slice through armor and bodies. Even a Sandling comparable to Chasmfiends died with almost pathetic ease to Kenton. So, offense is very high in conjunction with the potential for very good defense. If there's Terken or aluminum (and assuming aluminum has similar properties as Terken for countering Sand Mastery- though personally I think it would be a bit weaker), then they're a lot weaker, unless they get creative. A Sandmaster warrior could use metal plates on top of their sand to block Terken projectiles and surrounding debris, buildings, or carried weapons to plow through enemy defenses (much like Kenton did). I don't know that there's a great way to truly calculate the number of Hazekillers needed, but if I were to hire some to kill the master of the Diem I'd grab at least two dozen, equip them with Terken liquids coating all their weapons, clothes, and smeared on their skin before directing them to attack from multiple angles to try and pierce any defenses with a veritable cloud of projectiles. Maybe if they used thin nets soaked in Terken juices they could throw or launch it at the Mastrel, which could negate any ribbons before they formed properly- that tactic, if successful, would require only two to four to kill in my book. If you can spray a kind of Terken mist at the Sandmaster with a high-pressure device one could probably get the job done. Really depends on the technology, coordination, and specific setting and individual we're trying to murder.

I was sorely disappointed that there was not a talent for Substantiation. It's by far my favorite Lightweaving ability. Now, I realize that if it's used it would probably count as a pretty powerful ability, so there would need to be some stricter limitations on its use. The only times I recall seeing it is when Shallan is in the battle for Thaylenah in which Dalinar's Perpendicularity fuels her and bridges the Realms, in the CR to stab Abidi and shoot at some Fused. Probably safe to allow Substantiation when such large quantities of Investiture are nearby, such as when near or in a Perpendicularity, around a huge stack of infused spheres, in the SR, or right after swearing a Radiant Oath. To use it reliably, you'd need an advanced (3rd Oath/Truth requirement minimum, I'm thinking) talent and should probably be limited to a single Substantiation at a time (except perhaps for the previous extraordinary circumstances), then probably spend a decent chunk of Investiture to get it going compared to most Surgebinding- say, 3 Investiture it initiate it? Mechanically, you could create a Lightweaving capable of interacting with the physical world, using a general statblock you can apply that will increase in power as you and your Lightweaving skill increase. Other thoughts to add?

Yeah, I had to really dig for it. It doesn't show up in the Coppermind if you search for White Sand or Sandmastery, but it is in Khrissalla's journal. Now, admittedly (and I'd forgotten this, sorry), it looks like this is actually just her musings on what a Sand Master could hypothetically do, not that it's something that has happened or could happen. So it's not guaranteed. I still think it's possible, but take it with pinch of copper. True. You'd have to choose to permanently lose much of your Breath though, so I feel like your standard Awakener is going to be hesitant. That's not to say that they couldn't do it, but having a true army of Lifeless seems unlikely to me. Most Awakeners are just wealthy merchants who presumably want to keep expanding and preserving that wealth on top of living their life. Get someone who's militant, and you're going to be facing a whole different beast. Fair point. I don't feel like most Elantrians are going to bother with this, because like with Awakeners most Elantrians aren't soldiers, mercenaries, or fighters. They're just relatively normal people. Go up against a prepared Elantrian with combat experience and your chance of winning a fair fight is extremely slim. Not impossible, especially since aluminum is a thing, but it would be very, very hard without using Kelsier-esc tactics. I do feel like this is something often glossed over when there are vs threads or the like, where we never really consider what kind of culture has been built into the magic. Awakeners have been historically used in battle, such as to throw boulders, but for most of the time they're just wealthy people chilling out. Elantrians, at least the modern ones as of Elantris, are literally random people chosen from the populace (okay, there's probably some kind of determining factor, such as one's devotion to a given thing, but it's still choosing from a huge roster of people, few of which have a disposition towards combat). Even Radiants will often not have true combat experience, disposition, or training. Lift is a street urchin, Shallan was a Lighteyed child, Jasnah was a highprincess, that one guy Nale murdered was a cobbler, and Venli was straight up a coward. There are many Radiant fighters, especially amongst some groups like the Windrunners and Skybreakers, but it isn't accurate to say that all do. Compare this to a Mistborn who will virtually always have training in assassination and self-defense on top of their noble upbringing (unless they're literally a one in a million half-Skaa Mistborn and have no idea what powers they possess- and even then, of the ones we've seen they drift in that direction eventually). Not a true soldier mentality, but they will know how to kill with brutal efficiency. I know this isn't as exciting, and we should probably ignore it for the sake of most of these conversations since we're often taking about their peak potential for carnage, but I do feel like it's worth addressing and then putting aside. At least, that's my two clips.

Dang, I need to read that scene again. Thanks for the clarification. Ah, I like that. It would certainly lend to some creative appliances if the PCs needed to confront the Heralds. Or, maybe it can be woven into the villains' plans. . .

Lol, probably closest to cannon. Ooo, that's a good idea. Like they should have some strong stats normally, especially mental and spiritual (except Willpower as you mentioned, which is extremely fitting and I am now going to steal that) but they do have some real upper limits when not holding Stormlight or using whatever their Heraldic abilities are. Basically they have at least two enhance abilities, one being standard Stormlight (assuming they have their Honorblades) or their super speed/strength innately. We've seen Chana appear to survive a lethal Shardblade injury, albeit very briefly, and both Taln and Ash had a great deal of superhuman durability even without Stormlight. So that should be in there. A lot of their skills should be pretty high, with some probably exceeding the five normally allowed- they've had millenia to hone their skills beyond mortal capacity. Nale was able to leech the Stormlight right off of Kaladin and Szeth, so add in the Larkin power, maybe boosted a little- may only work on specific Investitures they're tied to if it is working the way I'm thinking, but it may not be canon enough to restrict like that. Immortality is in there, though with some obvious limits tied to the Desolations. They can track the Connection of their Honorblades. Anything else besides ludicrously high health and level?

I noticed in the campaign that there are no statblocks for the Heralds. Yes, I know there is a reason for this- they're just too powerful to conceivably be defeated or meaningfully harmed by the PCs that should currently be present in the game. However, smart explanations have never gotten in my way before, so now is hardly the time to let that begin. I'm going to try and build my own statblocks for a Herald, but I'm wondering if anyone else would like to add some ideas. I'm all for hearing them out, especially since I'm very new to the Cosmere RPG and its mechanics.

This is probably within the realm of reason, but you would need to use an infusion of extra Investiture, and it needs to be Unkeyed if you're using it to fuel a different system as far as I'm aware. For example, you could make a Mistborn via Forgery, but you'd need a lot of extra Investiture. Hope this helps!

This is a pretty good list, I'd say overall it's good. As you mentioned, there's specifics to go over, and I'd like to bring up a few that come to mind if it's alright. With Mistborn specifically, Kelsier only had access to the basic eight known metals at the time. No duralumin, no Bendalloy. Plus, he was putting himself in a position where he was entering their turf in an enclosed space- certainly a vaible tactic for the Hazekillers to make, but if Kel had truly fought them with the sole intent of putting an end to their lives (instead of stealing Atium) I believe he could have performed far better. With Sandmastery, I think it can vary more. Kenton was highly skilled, but his targets often had Terken armor and Kenton himself, while skilled, has very finite power compared to many other Sandmasters. If one could form a suit or shield of sand armor, maybe covered in metal plate to stop Terken weapons, their power scales enormously, closer to a Shardbearer with offensive Investiture (perhaps comparable to the Surge of Division) to boot. With Awakeners, I think their power is normally quite limited. Unless they have a ready host of deceased soldiers with bodies that are in alright condition ready to be Awakened, it's quite costly to Invest a simple piece of cloth to attack (which can also be cut). They certainly have quite a bit of potential for power, but I'd say if they're without paid bodyguards (something they'd often have, I'd think), then a handful of competent non-Invested Hazkillers (Chromakillers?) could take them, assuming they're in the hundreds or low thousands of Breaths. If they have an army of Lifeless equipped properly, they probably have a higher kill-to-death ratio than the opposing army due to a lack of pain, exhaustion, fear, or disloyalty on their side. Elantrians in their own abode with prep time are nigh unbeatable without Investiture-countering tools or Investiture of their own. Catch them off guard or if they aren't steady handed in a fight and they go down with maybe only one or two non-Invested. They probably vary the most in terms of power, though it will probably be geared towards them having the advantage, what with how they'd be more comfortable closer to home/places with plenty of exploitable Investiture.

Please note that this is the Mistborn Forum, not the Cosmere Forum. Spoilers for Stormlight Archive stuff are best put in spoiler boxes.

Exactly. It might be interesting to see Spren trainers, focusing on an individual Lesser Spren to uplift and grow them in the future. Though, having more people focus on the Spren presumably helps. Maybe they could even do a sort of artistic depiction of the Spren to help guide their own thoughts and imaginations, which would in turn help cultivate the Spren. That's a new one. Maybe? I'm a little more hesitant on this one, mostly because I think the Singers themselves may provide a kind of filter for the Spren with their own Spiritweb. But unless that prevents additional focuses, then perhaps they could.

I don't think it would be terribly powerful. It's a good idea, but as I understand it duralumin and nicrosil really work by using up more of your available Investiture to enhance the standard effect. You don't get extra Investiture from nowhere. In other words, unless there's a new, unknown effect produced by super-Flaring nicrosil via duralumin, the Allomancer the Nicroburst enhances will get exactly the same effect as normal, assuming they have the same amount of metal in their stomach as they would normally hold. It might be useful on an Allomancer with a lot of metal, but otherwise I don't think it does much.

If I recall correctly, Aimia used to have Mandra/Luckspren that were larger (and presumably more Invested) than the standard found throughout Roshar. Because of this the Lancer and Larkins living in Aimia were able to Bond them and grow larger than would have been possible otherwise. This, I think, means that there is at least one strain of Spren that has varying levels of "evolution" or Investedness and power. This could hint to one of my old hypotheses, the one where I suggested that Spren could continue to develop over time and become more unique and powerful as people thought about them more and on a more individual level. Perhaps the larger Luckspren are shaped by the Greatshells, which can then bond them in turn to grow and thrive. If true, I wonder if Singers could do something similar, finding or cultivating strains of Spren that are more potent than the average for their Forms. For example, could cultivated Painspren give a Singer a stronger, tougher, more potent Warform? Or, could Logicspren of greater power/growth provide even greater mental acuity and memory in Scholarform? It would be really cool.

I don't know why I didn't consider this before (or maybe I did and just forgot), but if Wax had continued working for Sazed and being his agent, do we think he would have been Invested to become an Avatar similar to what Telsin was becoming for Autonomy? I guess it would be a good way to dump his excess Ruin and simultaneously put it to good use protecting Scadrial, at least until Wax was too corrupted by its Intent. Though he could switch it up every now and then, giving the power to a new Sword to protect Scadrial and keep its bearer fresh.

If you mean Ruin and Preservation being subsumed into Harmony meaning that they no longer have a distinct Identity and Intent, then no, they're still separate on some level, though intermingled enough that separating would take some effort despite their opposing nature. If you mean they're subsumed as in their own potential for independent personalities is smooshed by becoming part of Harmony, then I'd also say no. I have a(n excited) feeling that Sazed's shadow could be a personification of Ruin, assuming it's gaining a mind of it's own. Or, maybe it's like an Avatar comprised of Harmony's excess Ruin. If you didn't mean either, than it appears I am incapable of basic interpersonal observation.