Ba-Ado-Fisherman

I'm currently rereading tWoK, and came across an interesting passage in an early Shallan chapter.

“For a few extended moments, Shallan was back in that hallway again, watching something that should not be: a heretic wielding one of the most sacred powers in all the world. The power of change itself, the power by which the Almighty had created Roshar. He had another name, allowed to pass only the lips of ardents. Elithanathile. He Who Transforms.”

It could definitely be coincidence, but "the power of change itself" seems too spot on as a description of the Change Dawnshard.  "The power by which the Almighty had created Roshar".  Now, we know that Roshar was created by Adonalsium, not Honor, but we also know that the Dawnshards were used in the creation of all things.  

Also, we now know that Soulcasters originated in Aimia, the location of the Change Dawnshard.  Is it possible that the Dawnshard was used in the creation of these fabrials?  It sort of makes sense, seeing as Soulcasters "change" a substance into something else entirely.  

Now, this could simply be one of the ten aspects of the Almighty, relating to the Surge of Transformation, not the Change Dawnshard, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

I finally decided to read through the Ars Arcanum, and picked up a couple of really interesting tidbits.

Most interesting to me is this line:

“Fortunately, in my explorations, it appears that Stoneshaping is far less … explosive of a power, bounded by the rules that Honor placed upon it to protect from the mistakes that happened on Yolen.”

Once again, we see a reference to the destructive capabilities of Surgebinding when unrestricted.  What interests me most is the direct reference to Stoneshaping instead of Surgebinding in general.  Could this mean that whatever happened on Yolen was a direct result of Stoneshaping taken too far?  

I'd like to also point out that Adhesion, as described in the Ars Arcanum, is the Surge of "pressure and vacuum".  Seems like a pretty good way to turn a tower into a livable space station.

On 4/28/2021 at 1:35 PM, ElMonoEstupendo said:

Two points, one for and one against this idea.

Against: it seems from what happened to the Sibling that the binding of Ba-Ado-Mishram caused Odium's tone to join Honor and Cultivation as one of the "true tones of Roshar". A good amount of his power had ended up bound in the planet, something he distinctly wished to avoid.

For: the True Desolation was made possible by the Everstorm, which is an entirely new phenomenon "building up for centuries". It didn't exist in previous Desolations, and it allows the Fused to Return without Odium's direct intervention. I think it completely bypasses the Oathpact (and Taln didn't break), based on what Ulim and Rayse have said. It seems very likely indeed that the Everstorm is somehow tied to what Ba-Ado-Mishram did and the Investiture in Roshar.

Yes!  Taln didn't break, I've been saying this for years.  My man Taln escaped Braize through the perpendicularity in the Purelake.  If he lasted 4,500 years, there's no reason he couldn't go on forever.

6 hours ago, CROSSENuUP said:

This is a pretty good thought with Change kind of being a time moving forward type of Dawnshard. Increase in entropy sort of. Which one of these would be the one mentioned in the Poem of Ista?

The poem is odd, because of the description of beings as either "voidish or mortal".  That is a weird way to distinguish two separate groups of beings.  Why would a "voidish" being not be considered mortal, and vice versa.  Also, the fact that it is stated as "the Dawnshard", not "a Dawnshard", confuses me.  Honestly, I have no idea which one is being referenced.  I'm leaning towards Change, simply because it's the only confirmed one we have so far, but who knows.

I totally agree with this theory, even if there isn't much evidence to support it.  It feels natural, and I can't see the Radiants abandoning Uruthiru in their (supposed) war against Scadrial (and maybe others).  

As for how the tower could be equipped for space travel, it's hard to say.  All I know is that Brandon has definitely set up the mechanics of Investiture and magic systems in the Cosmere to pull it off.  

Personally, I think 3 of the Dawnshards correspond with one of each of the realms.  One DS to create the physical, one of the mind, and one of the spirit, with Change being the DS that is "different from the others", possibly the Dawnshard used to set time and existence into motion.  

I have absolutely no evidence, other than that the Dawnshards were used, possibly BY Adonalsium, to create all things.  All things in the Cosmere have a body, mind and spirit.    

So so many questions of BAM... I can't wait 4-5 years for answers.  I wish I could go into cryo-sleep until Stormlight 5 comes out.

2 minutes ago, ElMonoEstupendo said:

I think I'm right that the Fused didn't return during the False Desolation. If anyone spiked BAM, it would have been Melishi or one of the Heralds.

El's metal carapace replacements definitely reek of Hemalurgy or possibly Feruchemy. His other quirks - lack of Rhythms and intense interest in humanity - seem to me to indicate that he's either stolen or had stolen from him some amount of Connection and Identity, or is storing/accessing it.

Yeah, I think El, back when he was Vyre, experimented with other forms of Investiture in order to gain more power.  I'm guessing this is something Rayse was not happy about, therefore he stripped away Vyre's rhythms and gave him the name El.  

As far as the Fused during the False Desolation, I'm not sure we can rule out the possibility of SOME of them being there.  Ulim is shown to be active on Roshar before and during Gavilar's feast, which was years before the Everstorm reached Roshar.  Clearly there was a way for beings on Braize to travel to Roshar, and I think this will play a major role in the Ghostblood plot.  Ulim shouldn't have been able to leave Braize because of his Connection to the world, yet he did (inside of a gemstone).  This would be very interesting to Kelsier, I think.  Maybe cognitive shadows can be trapped inside of gemstones and carried to any world that they wouldn't normally be able to exist on?

On 4/18/2021 at 1:01 PM, mdross81 said:

Wow. I hadn’t considered that interpretation. I had just figured he was referring to Voidspren. But you could totally be right.

There is a connection somewhere in here...

Brandon's description of El in RoW made it seem as though he has experience with hemalurgy.  Hemalurgy creates these "holes" in beings' spirit webs that allows them to be influenced by other powerful beings.  El might have played a major role during the False Desolation, as did Ba-Ado-Mishram.  Somehow, some way this is all connected.

On 4/13/2021 at 11:46 AM, mdross81 said:

zas678 (paraphrased)

Can Odium influence people the same way that Ruin can?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, you see, the kandra and the koloss have a "hole" in them that allows Ruin to come in and take over. The Parshendi naturally are protected from this, but when they expose themselves to the storms, and the spren come in, many of these spren have that kind of "hole" in them, and that's what allows Odium to take control of them.

zas678 (paraphrased)

No, I'm talking about how Ruin was able to push people, place things in their minds, stuff like that. Can Odium do the same thing?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, Odium wasn't around when those people were created, so it's a little different for him than Ruin. So if he influences people in that way, it's through the Unmade.

"many of these spren have that kind of "hole" in them"

could this have to do with Ba-Ado-Mishram?  Maybe her imprisonment created a 'hole' in all spren?

9 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

It's not that new Vessels get a power boost upon obtaining a Shard, it’s that they are able to act outside the Intent of the Shard with a great degree of freedom, a freedom that decreases the longer the Vessel holds the Shard. Vessels who have held their power for a number of years can really only act in ways that are in line with the power, or at least cannot act outside the parameters set by the power without either a good deal of pain or an opening in their soul vulnerable to attack by another Shard.

Nailed it right on the head.

I 100% agree.  I don't think Brandon literally mean a "suckling" child.  I'd guess that it's more metaphorical.

I don't think Brandon's gonna make Odium's champion a child...  I know it's a popular theory, but it would be pretty lame imo.  Also, I feel like the champion will have to consent to it. 

On 3/12/2021 at 3:38 PM, Bejardin1250 said:

RoW spoilers

“So the night will reign because the choice of honor is life...” (WoK 916)

My guess is this refers to the champions duel in SA 5 

Its Kaladin ( yes even though Dalinar said he wouldn’t)VS Gavinor

And Kaladin refuses to kill Gavinor because the choice of honor is life which lets Odium reign ( he’s called the night of sorrows)

Also supported by “ I hold a suckling child in my hands...” death rattle 

And then Kaladin acends to Honor

Wouldn't Kaladin's baby brother make more sense than Gavinor?  I forget his name, but it's said that it means "child of peace".  I always thought that would come back in some way.

2 hours ago, Criggleworth said:

This is definitely something I've been pondering. Like most people, I think Adolin will help heal Maya. And I agree with the idea that Adolin won't become a traditional Knight Radiant surgebinder.

However, a thought just occurred to me. The Ars Arcanum in Stormlight notes that there should be something more esoteric than Voidbinding and that Khriss does not think this is the Old Magic. Which has me wondering- maybe there is a third type of "binding" of the surges, one that is more Cultivation focused. In this idea, Surgebinding is primarily of Honor, Voidbinding (which i believe is similar to Surgebinding but with a different expression of each surge) is primary of Odium, and the esoteric surges are primarily of Cultivation. Perhaps called something like Lifebinding.

I'm starting to think that Adolin and Maya will be the first of this new, esoteric category of surge binding- the first "Lifebinder".

Of course, I could be wildly off base. We shall see!

I'm assuming Maya will return when BAM inevitably gets released, probably in book 5.  Whether or not Adolin becomes a traditional KR is still up in the air imo.  Personally I would love to see Maya killed in some way, sending Adolin down a dark path of violence or something of that sort.  Perhaps Dalinar inadvertently kills her?  

Could also see Maya get caught up in whatever Ishar was doing to those Spren at the end of RoW...  That certainly has to be going somewhere.  Whatever avenue Brandon decides to go down, I don't think it's something we'll be able to easily predict.

38 minutes ago, hskeeter said:

I like your ideas, but I do believe that Lift has already got this third method.  Lift has made a deal with Cultivation and is the only one we know of so far that uses lifelight which is converted a different way than everyone else so far.  Its organic too, she just has to eat to get investiture.

I always thought that Lift was a traditional Edgedancer that simply used Lifelight to fuel her surges instead of Stormlight.  Kind of like how Venli can use Voidlight and Stormlight.

2 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I never said Gavilar was a Radiant.

FINE, he was not BONDED.  Man, I'm just gonna stop responding to you on this forum because every time I do, it leads to pointless, petty arguments over tiny details.  We're not talking about anything related to my original theory at this point.  Alright, this is done now.

Just now, mathiau said:

That part is factually wrong, a any bound between a physical being and a spren-like being is a Nahel bound and they can be form before the words are spoken

Also about Galivar

Just accept the fact that you're wrong for once.  Gavilar was not a Radiant, and he was not bonded to the Stormfather.  End of discussion.

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

Depends, at the start of WoK is Kal bounded to Syl or not?

No.  The Nahel bond is not formed until the words are spoken.

3 hours ago, mathiau said:

It's more "was bounding" than "was bonded" but yes, he was.

Also no double posts

He was not bonded to the Stormfather.  It's as simple as that.

On 2/15/2021 at 0:45 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

With Gavilar and Dalinar, they were bonded to the Stormfather, and the visions kept literally telling them to unite everyone.

For the Sunmaker, he pretty much just wanted to conquer the world, which plenty of people tried (the Shin even tried their hand at it once or twice). Also, the ties to the Sunmaker are... questionable, to my understanding (all of the highprinces try and tie their authority back to him, which means at least pretending they've got a direct line of descent).

Gavilar was bonded to the Stormfather? huh?  If that's true then I'm surprised I didn't know that.  Also, all 10 Alethi kingdoms were formed by Sadees' 10 sons, so the Kholins are direct descendants, but so are all highprinces.

On 2/16/2021 at 0:49 AM, Honorless said:

I don't think Bonds or Dawnshards are inheritable. Bonds, at least, are confirmed transferable though. Dawnshards might just become inactive if the current host dies.

Hence, "one Dawnshard is different from the others".  Sure it's a weak theory, but there has to be something there with the Kholin bloodline.

8 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Earlier, even — bronzepulses were introduced in TFE, the Well's pulse in WoA, and it looks like there's even hints in Elantris of all places. (Raoden finds a book talking about why only certain shapes work for Aons, and it's explained with terms he doesn't understand like "frequency" and "pulse length".)

Yeah it's absolutely insane how much foreshadowing exists in the Cosmere.

Just a little something that popped into my head recently:

So we know that one Dawnshard is different from the others.  We also know that Gavilar had been seeing visions before Dalinar did, very similarly, until he died.  Then the visions started to come to Dalinar.  We know that both Gavilar and Dalinar are descendants of Sadees aka Sunmaker.  There is one very strong connection between these 3 people.  They all were driven with an insatiable desire to unite people (some would call it conquest, but I digress).  Also, "I am Unity".  

Ok, so what I'm trying to get at is there is something special about these Kholins, obviously.  But even more so with the head of the Kholin family.  Sunmaker, then Gavilar, then Dalinar after his brother's death.  Keeping with the theme of ancestral magical abilities in Mistborn, could this Dawnshard (Unity) be the one that is different from the others, being passed on through blood in the Kholin family tree?  There certainly is a pattern of "Uniting" among the Kholins. 

So yeah, pretty crack-poty theory, but among all of the crazy Dawnshard theories, I personally like the Dalinar/Unity one the most, and this could give it slightly more credibility.