Quintessential
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Great now I'm tinfoiling elim!Rioter!Ash doing this exact thing (which would in fact account for the vote removed from Books) and then announcing the possibility in-thread XD
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I'm just going to assume that there were three Soothers, and only three Soothers, acting last cycle, because that is the explanation that involves the fewest convoluted cases and such. One of the Soothers would have targeted one of [Gears, Quinn, Ventyl, Stick, Striker, Ash, Devotary, TJ]. The second and third would each have targeted one of [Araris, Fifth, Illwei, Books], and they can't both have targeted the same person. Here are voting histories for all of those people (with duplicates not included--I had a vote on Illwei at two points in time but she's only listed once, for example): Gears: Books Quinn: Striker, Illwei, Maill, Books Ventyl: Books Stick: Books Striker: Gears, Illwei, Books Ash: Books Devotary: Books TJ: Books Araris: Reading Fifth: Reading Illwei: Quinn, Stick, TJ, Illwei, Reading Books: Reading So, basically there's a possibility that any Soothers acting were trying to remove a vote from one of [Striker, Illwei, Maill, Gears, Quinn, Stick, TJ], and then weren't on to see those people (edit: by which I mean their targets) move their votes, but it looks like it's more likely that all of the Soothers meant to remove votes from Books or Reading. Or, I guess, that they meant to remove the vote of a specific person they didn't trust? Also, I'm sure this doesn't really need saying but there's likely at least one elim in [Gears, Quinn, Ventyl, Stick, Striker, Ash, Devotary, TJ]. I'd lean towards the later voters or the ones who had only voted Books, but I suppose take that with a grain of salt because both of those categories conveniently exclude me This wouldn't work, because we would see two votes removed and one vote moved in this case. We see three votes removed, but none of them went anywhere. The only way there could be a Rioter in play is if they did vote and there's still a third Soother to cancel a vote off of the same person that the Rioter moved their target's vote to. Edit: Wait, why is this a double-post? Striker posted after me! I even quoted him... :///
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Earlier that day, Tesse had headed out to the tavern. She normally didn't care for the crowded atmosphere, and preferred the comfortable solitude of her shop, but she’d decided she couldn’t be alone right now. She'd spent the past hours sitting slumped at her desk, head resting on a jumble of papers stacked upon it, one hand repeatedly opening and shutting the false bottom of one of its drawers in a kind of nervous tic. Click! click-click-click-click-clank. Click! click-click-click-click-clank. Click! Eventually she returned to some semblance of self-awareness, and decided she needed to get out. Out of town would have been preferable, but she'd already decided that would be unwise. So to the tavern she had gone. She hadn't made it there, though. There was a crowd gathering in the town square, and Mayor Wilson stood at its front, giving some sort of speech. Tesse made her way to the edge of the crowd and tried to pick out Wilson's words over the muttering of those nearby. "...can assure you that those rumors are false. There are no koloss in the region, and if there were my scouts would know it," she said, nodding to Rowan and Slart. Someone in the crowd nearby jeered at the pair of hunters, and an argument broke out. At that moment, someone tapped her on the shoulder. She jumped, startled, and turned around to see her neighbor Willie standing there behind her. "Hey," Willie said with a lopsided grin, "so what do you think of all this?" Tesse blinked, trying to reconcile the compressed spring of tension inside her chest with Willie's cheerful face. "I--it's... crazy," she muttered. Willie smiled wider and, with a gleam in her eye, said "you wouldn't happen to have anything to do with those spikes, now would you? Working with metals and all..." Tesse would realize later on that it was a joke, but in the moment she took it as a threat. I'm onto you, it seemed to say. "What the hell do you think? No of course I don't have anything to do with this! How dare you accuse me of--of murder! That's what you're doing, y'know..." Towards the end her voice trailed off as she realized how loudly she'd been speaking before. She turned back to the crowd, and yes, they had definitely heard. Sides were taken, accusations shouted, and Tesse found herself wavering between them. She hadn't really meant it... had she? She didn't know anymore, but suddenly the idea that Willie might die because of what she said weighed her down like a lump of lead resting just below her heart. So as soon as another target was proposed, she added her voice to the cries for their death. And this time, it went through. Later, as Tesse stumbled home in a daze, two things occurred to her--"I should have done something" was one of them. The other was "perhaps I should stick to being alone after all." VC from before vote-manip: Reading (4): Araris, Fifth, Illwei, Books Striker (2): Pyro, Matrim Stick (1): XP Illwei (1): Maill Quinn (1): Dannex Pyro (1): Bard Books (8): Gears, Quinn, Ventyl, Stick, Striker, Ash, Devotary, TJ Two votes were manipped off of Reading and one off of Books. That means we have... at least three Soothers? Wow, that's... well I guess this is a large game so that makes sense huh. Could also have been Rioters, since their votes are canceled when they move someone else's, but in order for that to be the case there would still have to be a third Soother to counterbalance the moved vote. Will say more but I don't want to get ninja'd again XD
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AHHHH I was supposed to wake up at 7 or something like usual and have plenty of time to catch up but instead I woke up at 9:20 and it's taken me until now (9:50, ten minutes before rollover) to actually do that. While it does worry me that the Books train has managed to pick up without too much opposition, I suppose they'll still give us information no matter how they flip, and anyway I'm pretty sure they're too far ahead for me alone to change anything, so I'll leave my vote where it is : P
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Current VC: Reading (2): Araris, Fifth Striker (2): Pyro, Matrim Stick (1): XP Illwei (3): Maill, Striker, Illwei Quinn (2): Dannex, Tani Pyro (1): Bard Books (1): Gears Great, so, things. Given that we've got about 14 hours left in the cycle, it's probably a bad thing that the votes are so spread out. Because ties result in no one dying, and we could easily end up with a tie here depending on who moves last-minute, if anyone, and who any vote-manippers may choose to target. First of all, @Illwei you forgot to retract your vote on TJ before you voted yourself, which iirc is a thing that Kas... recommends? requires? idk but anyway. Second of all, would appreciate it if you unvote yourself please and thanks. If the purpose of the vote was to convince me you're vil, it definitely worked, especially since I was wavering anyway. Your point has been made. I'm sorry for tunneling on you :P. I'll try not to do it again even though now I'm imagining the elim doc laughing at the ease with which I am pocketed. Third of all, @Dannex are you really going to leave your vote on me? Over a joke? :P. And @Tani it would be nice of you to remove your vote from me too, if you feel like it I'm gonna stop using numbers now, but other things. Uhhh let's go with Books because Gears made some good points about them and also process of elimination. By which I mean: I know I'm village and having stepped back a bit and looked at Illwei without so much tunnel vision I think she is too. Striker I'm vil-reading for his responses to the attacks on him. Reading, Stick, and Pyro are all null for me at this point, so I guess I would vote them in the event of a tie, but not otherwise. I'd go back and look at them more closely but it seems like every time I do that during D1 I just end up confbias-ing and tunneling on the person I'm looking at. I'd rather not do that twice in the same game. And I'm not starting a new train because we've got seven people with votes on them already and I don't know who I'd vote for anyway.
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@Gears okay cool so you're the only one of us here who has any sense whatsoever :P. I'd sheep you on Books but I don't really have any reasoning for it apart from a vague gut feeling so I won't do that because it seems dumb. Nah all of your points about me are valid it's just that some of them occurred to me just before you posted
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Yes, you did Nope okay I can't do this anymore Illwei I'm starting to wonder if I should just not vote for the first couple of cycles at this point...
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I mean, I'm pretty sure for me it's just that you're so nice and also you happen to agree with me in my reads of... well, most people anyway so that just seems... off to me? XD so yeah, maybe it is outdated playstyle or something :P.
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Illwei apparently I'm not just going paranoid and tinfoiling your elimminess into existence, and other people see it too : P
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sighhh ik I definitely debated just unvoting but... heh yeah I shoulda just done that probably : P I... yeah okay Maill it occurred to me as I was posting that vote that Maill's a returning player but at that point it was too late so I just left it : P I think me tunneling D1 is basically a tradition at this point : P (Dannex in QF50, Matrim in LG73, TUO in MR48...) Why the asterisk? I assume that read is conditional/less certain but some specifics would be nice :P. (you don't have to respond now if you don't feel like it ig but I'm gonna forget to say stuff later if I don't do it now)
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Illwei's point, I believe, is that you seem way too clueless about how being elim works to actually be elim a lot of things that you've asked about in-thread are the things that you'd probably ask about in the elim doc. Which doesn't mean you're not elim--I know I asked all my questions in the doc and then recycled them in PMs or in-thread afterwards to seem less competent XD--but it makes it seem less likely.
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I was elim in my first game, and Archer in his first game--and those are just examples from my time here and off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others. Basically, I don't think newbies are generally any less likely to be on the team than experienced players?
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I... ahhhh why am I doing this Illwei this feels like village!you and since my entire argument is based on meta... anyway. Mailliw for... I'm not even sure. tbh I still haven't totally shaken the feeling that Maill is trying to pocket me, I guess. I have nothing else on anyone else. So. Yeah. There you go : P
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Still wanna know why you unvoted Stick...
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Ooo I love Avalon lol though I'd note that it's quite a bit different from this, since like... nobody dies XD Edit: well this is a pretty mediocre 1000th post XD
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Come to think of it that's true XD
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You play other mafia games? Which ones?
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Well, but not really though. Because if the elims do decide to kill Ventyl due to that claim, which they very well might unless they're scared of Lurchers--which I guess is a point, I do try to avoid obvious targets as elim and I for one would gladly NK a confirmed vanilla over a player who might have a role--anyway, if they do decide to kill Ventyl then we get no information on them from the NK, whereas we might have if they hadn't been given such a specific reason to target someone in particular Edit: though who am I kidding, from what I've heard in the few PMs I do have, claims are already flowing readily halfway through D1. I can't imagine at least some of them haven't made it to the elims : P so I s'pose it may not matter that much that Ventyl claimed.
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Well, it's also just that the N1 NK is, in my experience, almost as much of a shot in the dark as the D1 exe, so anything that paints a target on someone's back in particular helps the elims because they know who to shoot at--or, rather, stab brutally with a spike?
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Well, assuming Ventyl's not an elim, the elims now know who to kill to keep their vote-manipper(s) and or scans from being blocked (I'm just going to assume that Ventyl is telling the truth, in which case it would make sense for the elims to have vote-manip or scans). Or they could do that XD
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...okay two reactions to this: first of all WHY WHY WHY would you claim??? And second of all, note that they won't be able to successfully scan you until... I believe next cycle? Yeah, next cycle. Right? Because you can only turn off your copper as a Night action.
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Which is true, but not what your original post seemed to be arguing. Like I said to Illwei a few wallposts up, my disagreement with what you said was more a disagreement with wording than with your conclusions.
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Because the alternative would be for me to not vote at all. I'm not the best at reads in the first place, and usually only trust my reads on people who (seem to me to) have a lot going for them one way or another. Unfortunately, on D1 that category is literally only active players, plus anyone who may have said something sus that got them drawn into the limelight of a major discussion--and honestly I try to stay away from those if I can because they usually end up being vil. I'm not up for a full-blown Contribution Crusade either, and I can't justify to myself voting on someone who hasn't actually done something sus, so I'm kind of stuck here. I'm not going to not vote because A. that gives less for other villagers to read me off of, B. that gives up my voice in the proceedings to others, including the elims, C. I'm one of the people who's always saying more people should vote, and D. that seems to me like just another form of creating a less active playstyle intentionally, which somehow I don't think is going to solve the problem of active people being killed off. Basically, I don't know how else to play. I know that more active players die early more frequently, but we can't just say we're all immune to the exe for the first three cycles or whatever because we have just as much of a chance as anyone else of rolling elim, and it'd be unfair to the village to make that decree. No, you should switch it if you don't want to vote Illwei anymore. Illwei and I both die early, and actually she generally dies before I do. Also I survived last game, so in relatively recent history I haven't actually died very early at all : P My point was that nobody intentionally makes posts with clear fallacies and mistakes, except occasionally elims later on if they feel they don't have a choice for some reason. Whatever others may have seen in Striker's post, Striker himself almost certainly thought it made perfect sense, otherwise he wouldn't have posted it in the first place. Basically, the existence of logical fallacies in a post isn't (usually) AI.
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Oh, no lol I take no offense to your not following them like I said at some point later, they're reasons that are quite specific to me. I just figured I would put those reasons out there so everyone else can understand what they are--the intention wasn't to get others to vote with me. I think he got his wisdom teeth removed? Mentioned it in sign-ups or something.
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Matrim and Reading both brought it up independently, without mentioning you. I was just gonna ignore it when you said it, but then both of them did and I was like "oh this is actually a thing huh?" And why did you unvote Stick??? this is like the third time I'm asking? And you definitely responded to the other two posts in which I asked. Just not that specific thing.
