Illwei

@Orlok Tsubodai Did you read my post right before yours? if not can you?

Which is unironically a general village tell when used right. I know you won't take my word for it but I've talked about it before. Elims are much more self conscious about having trackable progressions than villagers. And yet I had one of the lowest on D2. Aman had more than me, Kas has more than me, Ash has more than me. And people were When I say Archer was openwolfing, this is what I mean: Not to mention the C1 Striker interactions. If I'm confbiasing then I'm confbiasing on something. But where? Because I don't think it's in the Archer-> Striker interactions. I don't While I am at Kas being village right now, I think that if Archer is an Elim then Ash is more likely village because of how Ash approached the Archer connection and how much Ash took to heart the Archer connection that Striker gave. And if Ash and Kas are both village, it means that the Thaid train on D2 was completely pure. which makes sense if Archer is an Elim, seeing how he commented on how he has used Thaid as an easy misexe in the past. Ash's supposed confusion at the end of the cycle is theoretically villagery as well.

Aman and Kas :P. D3 it was me and Kas though. Anyways, why has no one mentioned that my vote hasn't ever matched who I said I was voting despite being one to argue about accountability? I'd link their interactions but all the Archer/Exp interactions look mad partnered. I didn't want to say this earlier because at the beginning of this cycle it was Archer being like "Exp and Illwei look mad partnered" and Exp going "Archer/Maill look mad partnered" but I'll say it now because it's a new page so it looks less like a meme lol. @Bort Why are you so focused on my specific thoughts about Archer? I agree they're not trackable and don't make sense, but why that? if you think that me and Archer are teamed, why not vote Archer with me? Call my bluff?

It's practically everything he posts being a red flag to me. The one thing I will say is there is an Elim tell I have seen from Archer that I'm waiting to see if it is still valid that I haven't seen this game. I'll have more time tomorrow morning to point out specifics if asked. but it boils down to the striker/Archer interactions the most, a side order of posts that feel fake, and a bowl of keeps shading me yet doesn't seem to want to actually interact with me/solve me. I think the thing most throwing me off about Striker's reads and doing any thinking from there is that it's completely in RP. Like: Archa: A woman with common sense in this group. I greatly agree with her thoughts on Nid, and would most likely look along with them at Nid for further inquiries about the murderers in the future. I would not think that someone who was about to commit murders would so whole-heartedly disagree with someone like Nid publicly. Reading that and realizing it's about JNV should be blatant that I don't think Striker would have had the guts to mark a teammate as such highly village read. This whole time I thought JNV was nid and Archer was Aracha lol

I don't see how this taints your view? What does this make you think Archer is then? What's your view on archer? Because if Striker was saying that you'd look worse off of an E!Archer flip then all i see is an Elim setting you up for a misexe in the future. Yet you seem to think he's village? my point is I'm not wanting to waste effort on thinking about an E!Archer world if you guys are right on him. Which is why I'm putting it off.

I meant just in general because I'm not in the mood to make a long coherent wallpost lol But what do you mean your opinions are tainted by striker? TUA, Kas, Bort, Orlok, Ash, Archer, Exp, Maill, Illwei 3 v 6 or 2 v 7 lylo is going to be hard here where votes aren't actually trackable. Illwei Kas My problem is I legitimately can't get past here without taking big leaps of faith. My immediate pool of people I'm looking in to is TUN, Exp, and Archer. EDIT: At this point I'm partially just willing to believe Ash is village. for the most part. And it's mostly this post: Where he talks about how "people seem to think he's tied to archer" and how he was so self aware of that in some previous posts, when the main person pushing that was supposedly Striker. If Ash is an Elim it means that Archer/Ash/Striker was the team (which i honestly don't think is impossible but /shrug) and that all of them were absolutely full of TMI. I don't see Ash reacting this strongly as an Elim to what would be a teammate saying that they would be suspicious if someone else flipped Elim. EDIT EDIT: And Archer, you can't say you played D1 poorly if you were an Elim simply because you didn't vote Striker. I fully believe Striker wasn't a lost cause, and if you also thought that then you would try and save him, which you halfheartedly did. And then at the end it would definitely be suspect if you just jumped on him at the end because where would your progression be? So instead continuing your "we probably don't hit an Elim D1" thing you had going all day as well as a "I'm not going to vote! hehe!" isn't a completely bizzare path for an Elim trying to find an alternate path there to take.

I'm gonna need someone to interact for me to get my thoughts out if someone would, but- This is just the one post I keep coming back to about Archer. Just. This.

openwolfing isn't always a conscious choice, but a trackable record of having blatant agenda throughout their posts as well as an Elim point of view. yadda yadda useless commentary anyways next A few fun facts while I work through some things Matrim and Aman were both the 3rd highest poster the cycle they died, and Devo was the 4th with Ash in the 3rd position.

Aman wasn't even defending me,,,,,,,, Everything Archer posts feels like stereotypical openwolfing. Shading Aman when Aman went for Striker Openly just being so...agendaful with the comments he made earlier Just Everything I can only entertain a V!Archer world for so long until someone shielding him decides that something is indeed wrong based on how the exes are going and they need to modify their worldview

I honestly don't see myself as any less agressive this game I have periodically put some emojis in though :P. I think it would take mad guts to post this as an Elim I don't think JNV is a villager enough to fight this simply because I have seen him be just obviously villagery before. It feels stale though If jnv flips village then Exp's elim equity goes up a little.

That's irrelevant, but my point. Regardless of your opinion on what your actions imply, you have TMI. It's irrelevant, and it has the same supposed subconscious effect on people to what I'm doing. Unlike Kas, I get why you don't like it, but it's a feeling I get way more about people who green out their own name in votecounts :P. Funnily enough. I can link offsite games if you guys are gonna try to get down there which i dont really think anyone wants lol, but I am very anti bus. That game was a while ago and my first Elim game and I will bus if necessary, but I think people severely underestimate how much thread control you can have. If I was bussing striker I would have definitely been more vocal and definitely tried to milk more out of it than I have. I also think that, as I've said before, striker should have been anywhere near as much of a lost cause as his teammates supposedly thought. Note that we only need a poe of 5. Which is nice. We need a 5 that has at most 3 elims. Maill and JNV are two In mine so I don't feel terrible about this. I still think that someone in Archer/Ash should die though.

I was tinfoil I couldn't call you reasonably village without a striker flip But I like the villagery confidence that's pretty Well Villagery I mean yeah. I guess this is pretty much what it boils down to is that I don't think they're both village. In terms of mafia I think game sense can be compared to gamestate reads. Kinda just an overall "based on how things have played out, I think the elims are hiding in these semi-designated spots" in response to a "something isn't right here" feeling that usually comes after a towncore/trust circle has been formed or a streak of mls. Is this an honest thought or is it still more confbiasing? I'd ask you to look through again at what I've majorly done, which in my eyes? Try to work specifically with people to try and solidify some form of a concrete, game winning PoE. Because without any Mech that is one of the only things we can do to scare the Elims. As for the "why not try to get me to believe an elim read" I mean, I don't really have a good answer for that because I think it's a flawed question. I think I've made my approach to today specifically clear. Anyways, not going to interact more about the topic of illwei when I feel like it's blatant you're confbiased. Not meaning this in a rude way, but in a like "this will become a pointless waste of threadspace" kinda way. If there's anything specifically about me that someone wants me to answer I will. I take no responsibility for any typos as I wrote this while driving to work EDIT: me putting myself in my village reads isn't a joke. Was you putting your name in green on that votecount you posted a joke? Anyways sorry if any of this comes across as hostile, it's not my intent but things seems to be interpreted as hostile when I don't particularly put effort into making the post friendly. Don't really have time to be anything but straight to the point when I need to clock in in 2 minutes :p. I think it should be obvious I am village based on how me PoEs keep swapping every time I update. I'm sticking with you/kas/exp for right now. I think. But if I was an elim it would be 10x easier when it was obvious no one is interested in working with me, despite my efforts, to just pull 5 names that I either knew were village or teammates and call them my towncore. /shrug

Things change if Exp doesn't realize that it's extended 24 hours, which if he does then it doesn't matter anymore because there would be no real need to switch off of me after expressing doubt. But just in my mind it's a completely pointless post when Aman is probably ending on me today? or at least looks like it at that point in time and whatnot. Idk. Gotta go to work. Also. Mrr. I suppose I can buy the point on Maill right now. One of my defenses that I have that isn't really relevant to anyone voting on me or potentially in the game is that I just. I can't say I wouldn't have let striker go over there but there were some obvious red flags like the only focusing on defending himself that I don't see how another teammate would just let him do and die with without a fight. I suppose it implies that they're too scared to approach Aman, who was leading that, or just generally absent. And then an awkward reason that no one needs to believe me on is that I never kill Mat D1 here. Matrim has been consistently suspicious of me since...has it been since LG74? maybe a bit further on, but I don't recall ever not succeeding to pocket Matrim in a way that mattered besides the amongus MR that Straw hosted right after AG7. Illwei Aman Kas Maill We have 24 hours I need two more. Someone Pitch themselves. Might entertain Bort as village but his original suspicion of like Striker/Archer/Ash/Mat and follow up with "Which means they're probably village because i suspect them" still is like mrrrrr to me.

Sadness when I take my shower and still no one has posted. Things like this are why I want to believe in a V!experience world @Kasimir @Amanuensis Because it's a completely unneccesary post if it's coming from an Elim trying to get an easy misexe imo.

I think there is at least one (probably one) In Archer/Ash. If i had to bump one of these up to village tier...I honestly have no clue. I want to say I'd move Ash up because we'll go there Illwei Kas Aman Am I just pocketed by Kas ...defending me? yes. The problem is now there's so many people that I just don't feel comfortable moving up to village tier for one reason or another. Maill I...I don't even know. I should be able to get anything off of him but I don't know what's up because he sounds like Steel to me. I can't judge his meta off of one Elim game, especially because i was on the team with him. The thing is I don't feel like i actually see any opinions in his post, which is what puts me off the most. If there's a translator I would appreciate your interpretation Experience hasn't even talked much, that's mostly it. I can't justify pushing him up. People always find experience suspicious, and he's commonly a good ML target. I haven't seen any of that, but that doesn't mean much because he isn't as active as he normally is. Similar, even more so that Maill i just haven't seen any real opinions from him. TUA I've talked about before, right? I think Striker's approach to them wasn't good. They seemed to be pretty absent as well, and seem to be pretty absent currently so that would make it harder to swing the vote in the beginning. Mostly it's an "I can't remove them because they have only posted once" as well as a "I can't take them off because they fit on a team with pretty much anyone" Bort I might just be resisting sheeping the consensus V read on because of his vote on me, saying it was "gut" and giving no further reason, then talking a little about E!Archer? but yeah. Probably my first to move up. I don't even remember who's left. but I know there's two. (not archer/ash) But Yeah. I think Archer/Ash/TUA/+1 has 2 Elims. I was trying to find a 4th name but there's nothing I believe in. I could put Exp but I don't really think that. Maybe Bort but I'm not sold on that, even if there are a number of things he's said that ping me. I voted on Thaid early in the cycle almost purely because lack of content meant i had no read on him. Probably wasn't the smartest vote but i was busy last cycle so /shrug. I think that votes on me are bad but that's probably only because I don't quite understand them. I fully believe we should be killing in Archer/Ash even though I think people believe that they are both village (kas is people) but then where does that leave me if i follow that? Illwei Kas Aman Archer Ash Means the team is in JNV/Orlok/TUA/Experience/Bort/Maill Which...I don't feel like there's a cohesive team there. Gonna post this even though it's not a complete thought because i need to get ready for work and not get lost in this post for another 20 minutes EDIT: That's now Experience, Bort, (potentially JNV), Aman on me @Amanuensis How do you feel about that wagon composition rn ?

Ftr that list was not my village reads, that was my D1 PoE. You imply I'm not capable of doubting myself? Or Re-evaling? I doubt every single one of my reads but faking confidence applies pressure better than not. As Kas said I suppose, I keep that to PMs more (lol) with people I trust as well as my notes rather than in thread. If I posted my full thoughts I type out when making reads then it would look like I have no opinions. Honestly this just furthers my E!Archer theory, tbh. I don't know what this was meant to be but yeah. it really looks like he cautiously put forward an idea and then backed up but then when he got support he went stronger. Another point why I have a hard time going full V!Archer is his defence of Striker, which he tried to keep up and then started trying to shade Aman when Aman pushed striker more, as if to try and discredit him.

I don't believe in an E!Archer world much either, I just. I'm right now pretty much following Matrim on him rn. Matrim and the current crowd. My problem is honestly that it seems like these Archer V reads are for being the CW to Striker, when it barely seemed like anyone tried to push things onto Archer. In the middle of a re-read so potentially wrong here. It ended up with Striker vs. Ash anyways, not Archer. the Archer counterwagon didn't even go anywhere. Perhaps I'm not understanding something? -- Unrelated Tinfoil, open at your own risk EDIT: Regardless of what the approach implies, I do think that Striker's approach to both TUA and Ash were similar. That they were the most similar reads. the only people that he really said "should look more into" to.

Illwei/Orlok/Exp/TUA/JNV? mmmmmm. Anyways. @Kasimir I placed my vote on Thaid practically the moment I opened my computer and caught up. I feel like something in me isn't working. I should be able to read both Exp easier, and I should have been able to read Thaid better. I also fully believe that I should have a read on Orlok and Bort, which I don't. Either way bad vibes from this post despite the fact I also asked. The way this is typed though....mm. I honestly don't fully believe in a V!Archer world but I'm willing to try and overlook that and just sheep the consensus for now, who seem to believe Archer is V.

@Archer without thread votes to count when people actually voted for everyone, what do you consider "bussing time"

It was more the approach than the intent. The whole "Illwei is sus bc <insert specific reason only accuser can have>" to a "I agree" thing The effort you put into a game is normally however much it requires to win. er, in a realistic world. In this threadstate why would orlok need to put in more effort when he both hasn't had the time and people are saying that he should get a pass til 5

You both had similar approaches (read: Practically identical) to me in Elim games I have had with you guys :P. must be that. :P. I'm at a TUA/Ash flip right now. TUA

We need maximum five people that we can all agree that there are 3 elims in. I don't really care if people add me in as long as I think that my three are there. For JNV it's very light, but mostly just that they seem to be acting very similar to their previous games. In reality Xp/JNV are both in a middle category but for the sake of having 5 this is where I'm starting. Matrim read Exp as village on D1 and so did I so I'm sticking to it. Both Mat and Devo were pushing Ash, that's pretty much why he's in my bottom 5. there's nothing else interesting about their posts. The only person that seemed to be kinda reading Devo as village publicly was Kas and so the only way she dies because people think she can't be misexed is if Kas is an elim, imo. Bort is there out of principle, as he only has a few posts and I don't really feel anything strongly about his slot. I don't believe he's an Elim with all my heart but i can't in good couscous drag him into my village reads. I notice you don't have TUA on your list. You're down there because....well...I keep thinking you're steel at first and that keeps putting me off. Why is Orlok in your top tier? If I'm to go down more, I'd start my Village tier off with Illwei Archer Experience right now probably. Which means I need 3 more. Why should one of them be you? The thing for me is that I don't feel comfortable enough with putting Aman or Kas solidly in my village tier without a huge leap of faith. These aren't Archer kills. They definitely could be Ash Kills.

@Archer Why Bort? Just simply his striker vote?

I guess might as well take a leap of faith Illwei Archer Aman Kasimir JNV Experience Maillwi Orlok Bort Ash The Unknown Aon I think there are all the Elims in the bottom 5 people. Objections? Who's next? Move the list around and tell me why

The kill implies that there are no striker bussers, since they don't care about making the pool smaller.