Mat

A mutual EoD reread will be beneficial; get everyone's thoughts. You don't look great from it I don't think, tbh :P. Agree with the Hael clear. Let's have a look. It progresses, more or less, like so: I break the silence by reiterating my v!read of Silvereye (whoops) Aman questions why I posted that, in contrast to him remaining silent when I posted similar things about Dannex. Fifth votes Silvereye, which I'd forgotten about, and even though he didn't end there I think this is a positive look for him. More positive than negative at least? Interested in other thoughts about this in particular. Aman goes onto Nerdy, an obvious bad look. Fifth continues to find random alternatives which tbh I kind of find villagery. Like I sympathize with that panic :P. As an elim I'm way frozen in situations like that. Stick votes Fifth which could be sus but isn't due to where she ended and I totally get why she voted Fifth lol Hael votes Silver. Willing to agree he can be pretty much cleared from this. Kas votes Nerdy, and my opinion of this is the same as with Stick-- it could be sus, but it isn't, because Kas swapped back to Silver two seconds later. I vote Aman. I don't get points for my Silver read, but I can probably get points for not staying on Nerdy? Stick and Kas both swap to Silver. Also pretty willing to almost clear that. So: Near-clears (I think): Hael, Stick, Kas Standouts: Aman, Fifth Fifth more of a question to me but I'd like to hear other thoughts. I also want to look back at the voting before EoD, particularly the timing of Devo's. [Edit: Nvm Devo voted Silver, I thought she voted a side train for some reason] The clear I'm least confident on is Stick since I think she'd be most willing to bus there but I also already village read her so /shrug Also rereading my point about Aman from right at EoD I don't think it makes any sense lol like I was arguing that his attention on my v!read of Silvereye as opposed to Dannex meant that he and Silvereye were teamed but Aman was implying that Silver and I were evil together. Though he didn't act on that repeated notion. He voted Nerdy. Alongside me. And his first post today doesn't fit with that. So I dunno. Aw, so no fun Winzik doubling the elim countertrain was happening? :P.

Aman. Glad I unvoted there [Edit: 'there' meaning Nerdy], at least. Sorry I misread his [Edit2: 'his' meaning Silverye's] post so bad >> Wiz kill is funny but hey one less thing I have to worry about :P.

xD Look when you're talking to me you need to say "the Jedi game" or "the honorblade game" because those numbers? They don't stay in my head. At all :P. Weirdly enough I think I prefer this to Nerdy rn because Nerdy can be resolved later and I do think I see something in an Aman/Silvereye connection since Aman drew no attention to my dislike of the Dannex train yesterday and has drawn attention to my dislike of the Silver train

Probably, but I'll stay in the thread instead of spending the last minutes trying to find it. I'll get back to you. 'This energy' was in me yelling that the Dannex train was bad :P. I don't see a difference, other than a change in my Wiz read. Don't remember Wiz's alignment in LG90 and this is another thing where I'll just have to get back to you because I don't have time to verify or find out anything that isn't just me making something up. This is the second time Aman has drawn attention to my post about Silver when he made no such posts about my even more dislike of the Dannex one last turn. What's the difference? 'casting doubt' isn't what's happening here. I'm saying I don't like it :P. Okay yeah I just get all the wrong vibes from that, Aman. Dunno what the VC is.

Going on record (again :D) that I don't like the leading train. It doesn't feel good. I've developed a bad gut read on Wiz and am still paranoid of Aman even if I do v!read Kas and maybe Stick. It feels too quiet for this to be a hit to me. Like, Silvereye doesn't show up at all? I don't think e!Silvereye would completely ghost like that.

No no see this just means I’m a good elim right I’m surprised to hear your vote on me was a joke. I definitely thought you voted me because you thought I was elimmy for claiming Winzik.

Can you explain why you e!read xino, specifically?

Another thing about the not starting a countertrain point-- I actively didn't really want a Wiz countertrain either, and that was the agreed upon other option that no one went for. I would have preferred Wiz over Dannex or you though so I guess I don't really have an answer for why I didn't start that train. It's that indecisiveness I suppose. I didn't post that I wanted to, I posted that I was considering it, but it was the kind of consideration where my brain was arguing with itself. I did v!read Dannex, but I was like the only one who did and Aman had made that point that seemed good at the time, so I was wavering. I think this is why I unvoted him, yeah. Like if e!Aman I'm definitely just shooting myself in the foot for not pushing him now but I'd also rather have v!him around. It makes me want to look at my nulls who voted a side train a bit closer. That'd be... just Fifth, I think? Devo kind of since I agree with your 'maybe village question mark' read of her. I feel like I've already answered this already, in the paragraph you quoted while saying this

Aman Nerdy Hmm

For the record, I’m not so blind to miss the obvious playstyle difference between LG91 and this game But I also would have probably just v!read your play for awhile there. I also don’t think you’re someone who can be playstyle read that easily but I can’t use that as evidence against you because it’s a bad piece of evidence. I guess I’m just saying it’s NAI to me. Kas, I’ll respond to your post when I’m not on mobile.

I felt that Silvereye's post felt villagery in its effort and that his Dannex vote was one of the better ones (that's a low bar, granted) but since all of his other games have been lower activity, under the radar iirc I'd expect a first time (?) elim to not post that and continue to do what he's been doing. That read has a lot of assumptions about it but I'm ok with it for now. I'm trying to figure out what made you call the post "extremely suspicious", comment line by line on said post about why you thought so, and then reportedly "hesitate to vote them based off just this post". Like, you seemed to have convinced yourself pretty solidly, so what more do you want? Vote him if you think the post is that sus. (Which you do later, and your play this turn has seemed a lot better to me than yesterday so I probably won't case you today. I think you're catchable through VC analysis so I'll leave you to that if you're e) After reading your post I don't get why you voted Bookwyrm cause I mostly agree with this second paragraph here, and I didn't see you dispute it anywhere in your post. Ignoring all that, though, this turn I think Bookwyrm has been pretty villagery and I'm more than happy v reading him right now. I like his questioning of the xino train and his responses to questions. I don't know how much I want to ascribe this to new playerness... just the word "posts" is factually inaccurate, xino only had one. That makes me think Nerdy didn't actually ISO xino and just made up something to join the train. I don't think that's necessarily true. These are the kind of statements that make me e!read you, it's the same thing with your whole "I'd be shocked if dannex was v!" "Oh I can't believe he was v :(" Like the stating something as a fact and then exaggerating when it wasn't, I don't like that. It allows e!you to solidify dannex's train. I guess that's why you say e!you = e!Kas, but again, I don't think that's necessarily true. It's definitely within your e!meta to pull that in a v/v Please try your very hardest not to incorrectly kill someone if the VC is close, thanks I know this doesn't mean anything coming from me, but yeah. It was... 11pm, I think? I'd just came home from work and was about to go to bed when I remembered the game had started, so I logged on just to check my alignment. It was a rash decision that I definitely would not have made rashly as elim No comment about whether IC!me would do that though. But I'll also say that IC me would not have logged into the doc right then, I'd have probably waited until after I posted again in the morning to try to muddle the timestamps. ...Or would I? :eyes: I mean, in my opinion, an IKYK becomes stronger if it's 'obviously jokey' because that's the point, no? I guess this comes down to how I see IKYKs and if you see them differently I can't explain further. The point of me questioning why Fifth and Aman both were just fine voting me was to question if both were village or if either were cool taking an easy out. The thought on half-taking it back is fair I suppose, and it might make the elims write me off as Winzik, but that was the whole point None of those three/four players who expressed interest bothered to find one either, and just based on who had voted on the main trains and who was around and active I almost didn't see a point. Which is a bad mindset, but I knew that as my Stick read was gut I wouldn't be able to make a cohesive case without spending more time than I was willing to spend on a Sunday. And it was the same with finding another alternative. I got to the thread late and wasn't in a place where I could sit down and fully commit so I played it casual and lamented from the sidelines and the decisions of everyone else :P. I didn't switch, so that's a moot point. How are you comfortable with a ? Aman xD I guess you didn't say you were comfortable, to be fair. But Aman feels like a player where ? should become sus sooner rather than later. You're making my statement that I think there's probably an elim on the main trains exclusive to the thought that there are some on the side trains, which is obviously not the case as there is probably more than 1 elim in this game. I proposed an elim on the main train for the same reason Stick did earlier-- it makes sense. As does some on the side trains. Me saying that doesn't mean I don't think there aren't any elsewhere. Like. What did you want me to do? In my mind, I had two choices-- either I could kill you over Dannex, vice versa, or I could do nothing. I definitely wasn't going to the former, so I had to be fine with the tie. In situations like that, in the back of my mind is always the phrase "maybe they know something I don't". In essence it's the fact that my reads are not law and there is a village for a reason-- one villager can't win the game by themselves So I hoped that dannex was e and that y'all were geniuses but I wasn't willing to jeopardize my own read because I did still read him village. The people I'm fine calling village are Kas, Silvereye, Stick, Bookwyrm, and Devo. Stick and Devo in particular are kinda sheeping but Stick's D2 has been good for me so there's that. My two strongest e reads are probably Nerdy and Aman, and I vote Aman over Nerdy mostly because I'm far more likely to get a response one way or another. Of course this is where Wiz ninja's me with an unvote. Anyone else is null for me. I could be convinced on Fifth, Wiz, and maybe TUN and Hael, but not onto xino.

PSA for all newer players: Please stop voting the person who already has votes just because they already have votes. Thanks! Will reread and respond and stuff in a bit

I mean, the answer to your question is “yes” but I also didn’t want to break a tie between my two strongest village reads. I explained my v!read of him in my catch up post, the long one, but it was a lot of sympathizing with how he was responding to Kas; seeing a lot of how v!me responds to similar situations in his play. I disagreed with the e!reads of him which I think fueled my read as a policy. Edit: @Kasimir maybe that answers your question? For Bookwyrm, I guess I just don’t want him to just be ignored while suspicious forever. Like, one of these times he’ll be elim and we’ll write it off. I suppose there will be other ways to catch him but old habits die hard and I see a sus vote and call it out >> My phone’s about to die so that’s likely it from me until the morning

Mhm yeah I wonder if JNV was linguistically IDd or if that was just a lucky shot :P. Kas is a non starter for me. Dunno how likely a pure Dannex train was but I think I liked Silvereye’s post. Aman… I feel like every time I’ve seen him be surprised about a v flip he’s been elim so that alone gives me bad vibes but again that’s something that is not based on any data at all

I still village read Dannex but whatever I guess it’s out of my hands I am Winzik though so I can just manip away right

I mean my vote right now isn’t changing the current trains, I just wish the trains were different and would rather not help something I generally disagree with As I mentioned in an edit I ninja’d you with, I do like your reading of the Dannex train so idk. A tie. Hmm. Well I’m not breaking it :P. Edit: Also not sure what votes you’re referring to being repeated. I think the side trains need to be investigated later.

Okay I seriously laugh every time Hael spells my name ‘Matt’ please don’t stop Idk if I want to move. Not to Dannex or Kas because I can’t bring myself to save one over the other and Wiz feels like a cop-out. Edit: I like that Aman point though…..

Fifth is still voting me, so unsure where this came from. Nerdy never said they were sheeping Fifth, either. I’d be surprised if that specifically were the case. I guess it’s fine if you don’t care. But, I don’t really think it’s fair to imply that I (and everyone else) have straight paranoia-d you for months and treated you different because I really don’t think I have. I’m sorry if you feel that way though.

And your v!read makes my own read invalid? I know the answer is ‘no’ and that’s not what you meant but sticking that sentence in this response doesn’t make sense to me. I say C3/4 because your entire xino data case was based on lower activity being a tell. It’s too early right now to tell if xino is showing signs of that but by mid game we might reasonably be able to say which category he falls into. At that point, it wouldn’t be a CC. It’d be a case. Right now it’d just be a CC.

Kas, I don’t see why you take any of the votes on you seriously. Dannex was retaliation, and idk what Nerdy or xino were thinking. It’s not paranoia off recent games because Nerdy and Dannex haven’t played past games and xino was just elim. Everyone who was paranoiding you early on last game isn’t right now. So please vote someone you actually suspect? This is why I don’t like self votes, you’re fine with getting yourself killed and pushing that people want that and it’s better or whatever but that’s not the case. You’re not proving anything, you’re just removing your own vote from actually being helpful. Sorry if that sounds harsh. But this is not the way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Ninja’d by Hael, who says much of the same. Edit: Also can someone explain to me why everyone is just… fine with Bookwyrm’s vote???

Would rather not CC, even with the data from last game. To me there’s a difference anyway, making this argument C3 or 4 would be better. Course he just ninja’d me @Ookla the Forgotten, why Kas? Even if you haven’t reread you had to have some rational for voting there. Almost makes me want to vote Dannex to test that interaction.

This as an example isn’t super great imo since that was what, two years ago? That being said my take wasn’t based on any real data of recent meta so it could be wrong. But the map thing was long enough ago that I wouldn’t put too much stock into it.

Welcome to QF D1?

Will vote Stick to appease my gut Neither Fifth nor Aman are returning though, both have played in one of the last two games. I read that as bro privileges which isn’t fair but also is NAI for Kas

I already mentioned I thought it was odd he and Aman were content to vote me (he can say what he wants but he’s of another generation ) but otherwise nothing stands especially out. I can understand him saying there’s not much he wants to comment on though. Hael is null to me but I haven’t looked close as his posts or anything. I’m pretending the Kas train doesn’t exist because it’s a self vote and I just don’t want to talk about it >> I’m only opposed to the Wiz vote because he hasn’t really done anything. Like, no reason to v read him but no reason to e read him either.