stormbourne

On 18/07/2019 at 11:08 PM, First Witness said:

Preservation, based on effect would most likely be Cadmium.

Cultivation should be the opposite of Ruin, rather than Honor.  

Ingenuity should be the other side of Honor.   (Ingenuity/Wisdom being the supposed Survival Shard) 

 

Dominion and Autonomy are likely in the same Quadrant either connected via x or y, depending on what else needs to be in those quadrants.  

 

I believe the Physical, Cognitive, Temporal, Spiritual will be based on inherent rather than actual effects. 

i think the pairs are dominion/autonomy, cultivation/preservation, devotion/odium, and honour/ruin

2 minutes ago, Ethan_Sedai said:

I just had an idea: we might be looking at this wrong. What if we have spent too much time looking at the powers of the metals as complete opposites, and thinking that that should match the Shards? What if we should look at the metals themselves, rather than their allomantic powers? I would say that maybe there are pairings of Shards where one Shard is an “alloy” of the other, for instance, Cultivation and Ruin could be an “alloy” pairing, as well as Devotion and Endowment, and perhaps Honor and Preservation.

explanation for each pairing: 

•Ruin And Cultivation: This is probably the most obvious of me the pairings, they both have “change” as a major element of their nature. I would say Cultivation is an alloy of Ruin. I would call Ruin “change” which ends up as Entropy because of the nature of the universe, and I would call Cultivation “change mixed in with improvement.” This can be seen with the nightwatcher not understanding Lift’s request to “not change.”

•Devotion and Endowment: This one is more strenuous, but I would call Endowment “giving of yourself to others” and I would call “giving yourself to those you love.” 

•Honor and Preservation: I would call Preservation “wanting to keep everything the same” and Honor “wanting to keep yourself the same.” This can be seen with the Stormfather stating that “he does what is in his nature, and to defy that is pain.”

 

What do you think? Has the Taint on Saidin driven me insane or do you think I might be on to something? 

pairing yes maybe but here's the thing alloys are always a mirror of each other but with the same focus so cultivation and preservation would be an alloy pair and that's another aspect i need to incorporate into my chats to seconds

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

Perhaps.  I think it more likely that the blessing would confer something more along the lines of attitude.

OP combination Connection blessing kandra

what happens if a kandra got a identity blessing? memories of the deceased maybe?

4 hours ago, First Witness said:

Preservation, based on effect would most likely be Cadmium.

Cultivation should be the opposite of Ruin, rather than Honor.  

Ingenuity should be the other side of Honor.   (Ingenuity/Wisdom being the supposed Survival Shard) 

 

Dominion and Autonomy are likely in the same Quadrant either connected via x or y, depending on what else needs to be in those quadrants.  

 

I believe the Physical, Cognitive, Temporal, Spiritual will be based on inherent rather than actual effects. 

i put honour as duralumin cause both feruchemy and hemalurgy use it for connection which seems to be a main staple of honours magic

people keep saying preservation should be cadmium cause it stretches out the time of the thing and yea i can see that but feruchemy and hemalurgy seem a bit more tenuous of a connection

On 12/07/2019 at 9:57 PM, stormbourne said:

having a look at all three metallic arts i have updated my assumptions

updated green is certain, yellow uncertain, red highly uncertain

41 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

okay, fair enough. Maybe a true "Greed" intent shard would be the merging of Ambition and... Oh, hmm... Dominion?

Here, real quick, all of y'all.

Is Ambition a Temporal or Physical shard? Quote this and add your response!! lol. But seriously I do want to know what people think. I personally like ambition as a Physical shard in part due to it just being a new interpretation... But again, I can see the logic of it being Increasing Inward Temporal.

i think it's temporal  manly due to Feruchemy storing determination a synonym of Ambition

1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I see your shard-to-metal chart and Rayse (hah) you my own interpretation!

one of the big differences in mine is that I chose to put Ambition in the Physical category. My reasoning for this is because Ambition is a desire to Increase the amount of "stuff" you have, you aspire to gain "something" from being ambitious. Now, that's not to say I don't understand putting Ambition in the Temporal quadrant, however... It strikes me more as an increase to physical possessions, almost like "greed" under a different name.

(also if the Survival Shard was on this chart it would be above Preservation, in the Inward Decreasing Temporal spot)

nice but i would say the greed is a corrupted ambition, so greed is ambition but not the other way round

having a look at all three metallic arts i have updated my assumptions

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

For what it's worth, Time does exist in the Spiritual Realm, it's just easier to view as a whole.  But the ever-moving horizon of the Now has significance, insofar as how it interacts with the other two Realms, it's the point where possibility solidified into reality.  It's why actual Time Travel is impossible in the Cosmere even for the Shards that exist mostly in the Spiritual.  That's where I think the Temporal shards come into play, there are a few who's Intents (Preservation, Cultivation, Ambition, arguably Ruin) are fundamentally defined by Temporal Change.  Ambition is by definition a desire for Change, Preservation is a resistance to it, Cultivation is all about the Before&After, etc.  You can have Honor or Devotion as a static thing, but those others just cannot exist without a temporal component.  

ambition is the desire to achieve a specific goal regardless of hardship or set back change is merely a side effect

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

If you'r looking purely at effects, I think I'd call Preservation Gold, since allomantically it's focused on the Past, and feruchemcially it basically restores the Physical to match the Spiritual Truth.  I might put Ambition on Bendalloy, since Ambition is pretty fundamental about a Better (personal) Future; Cultivation fits ok for the same reason, thought electrum would work for her too.   Based on his own self-definition in Stormlight, I'd call Odium Zinc before Brass.  

i wouldn't call odium zinc as it's only the thrill that riots people emotions and as well as the songs state odium is the void consuming all emotion. i say that cultivation is bendalloy as her forest is growing so fast that you can hear it

this i my best guess looking at the effects of the metals and lining them up with what we have seen shards do

1 minute ago, Elegy said:

Like I said, I don't believe the metals (and/or their allomantic effects) have specific according Shards. So parallels like those two would only be tangentally related each other.

Although it's very likely that Odium would be a "spiritual" Shard since his Intent deals with emotion and a sort of dis-Connection, which are things that happen in the Spiritual Realm. Devotion seems very spiritual as well.

Dominion would be physical

24 minutes ago, Elegy said:

There's this WOB:

So there is a possibility that the Shards could be categorized in the same way as the allomantic metals - 4 physical, 4 cognitive, 4 spiritual, 4 temporal -, since the allomantic metals followed a pattern that was previously established by the Shards. That said, I don't think the metals are "based" on the Shards, or "their" metals in any way. They just take a similar place in a similar pattern. This is particularly apparent in the fact that every allomantic metal has an opposite, while not all Shards have a specific opposite. So, at the most, it's the general concept of 16 being divided into 4 sub-sets of the same kind of pattern (... and which Shards fit into which sub-set is another topic).

Okay so based off what has been said I think cultivation is a temporal shard as it said that she can see better and the visions given to dalinar when he met her, maybe bendalloy, and odium is brass as he takes emotions from everyone he rules over with the exception the thrill which is another mystery that needs unravelling

15 minutes ago, imriel452 said:

So how have you come up with this theory? Why base metals- especially when Ruin has Atium, and Preservation has Lerasium?

Please- belittle me and explain this theory in more detail?

this theory comes from presentations "hint" in the 16 metals my guess is that he based them on the 16 shards and as such every shard has a allomantic metal and a divine metal one comes from the shards mere existence and the other came from preservation trying (really badly) to alert people/vin

Going through the know shards and seeing which base metal they most align with. Why base metals? because each shard has a divine metal that is specifically theirs p.s. sorry for the belittlement but i can't be arsed to explain this ten times in the comments

what i have so far: