Schneeente

Well, the point is the same. They could have approached her before she began "tying herself" to Shallan. It's much easier to recruit a spy if they don't have the feeling that they are betraying someone.

I can totally see him being spiteful enough to do exactly that. Not sure Kaladin's psyche can take that.. Especially when his little brother gets killed (AGAIN)... outch. And that would be so freaking easy to do... and would hurt him so so so much... now I am a bit afraid for him. Hehe, if you knew how insistent some people become that his dad has zero influence on his depression But yeah, I would like to see Kaladin and his dad finally burying their conflict as well!

I think it is more likely that IF Ishnah is the killer, it went like that: Before Shallan ever accepted Ishnah into her ranks, she asked the Ghostbloods to do a "background check" on her. That would have been the perfect timing/opportunity to approach her - before she starts to feel "sympathetic" to Shallan. And the GB doing that wouldn't be far fetched either, it's little effort but potentially huge return. So why not.

Nope, someone has just voted for the guards! Not everyone is gullible! A rather surprising number think that Ialai killed herself.. hmm. I still think Brandon Sanderson did a great job, the community is torn whom to blame. Looking forwards to the clues.

Okay, you don't eliminate every single bad trait a ruler can have with it, so what? You still get rid of most of the problematic ones.. it's still a clear improvement to "the strongest" may reign. I am not so sure who Odium's champion will be. And it would be quite the gamble for Odium to pick an inferior contestant on the (small?) chance that he has to fight against Kaladin. Furthermore... who knows what oaths Kaladin will swear until then, he might not have a problem with killing Moash at that point ~

There is a thread about it but I can repeat my objection here as well: What makes Moash more qualified as Odium's champion than for example Nale or a very skilled fused? Moash basically learned how to fight 2 years ago and didn't have much practical experience. Compared to Dalinar or even Adolin / Amaram he is clearly inferior? And I cannot believe that the other side has noone who is more skilled than Moash, even if Nale is too... unreliable. My guess is that it depends on the condition of the soul. I can imagine that a regular soul is too comfortable with itself and wouldn't want to change no matter how much stormlight you offer - while a soul that is millenia old and "really has enough" might be ... more susceptible? To finally be done with it? It might also depend on how convincing the soulcaster is. I presume there are differences between them, depending on their skill they need more or less stormlight to transform a certain "object"? As I stated above, maybe the 4500 years have made certain fused-souls more ... willing to change? How so? The opposite is true. Someone who is willing to sacrifice literally everything, his movement, his luxury, sex, food, any pleasures if someone who is supreme selfless. That's what you want in a leader, someone who looks out for the greater good, not for his own advantage.

The moment your fellow radiants or friends know that you have given "your pain" to Odium, they won't trust you any longer. And you certainly cannot hold any position of power without trust. Who can say with certainty HOW compromised you really are.. what if Odium gives you "little missions" for his generosity of not feeling any pain any longer? Apart from that a character changes drastically if he or she doesn't feel pain for his actions any longer. You basically have become a psychopath at that point. If you can do anything without a negative emotional response... you might be tempted to act differently than before. Seriously, giving Odium your pain is not a good idea.

My point is, that Kaladin will lose "everything" the moment he gives Odium his pain. It would essentially destroy him, so it would indeed be a valid strategy of Odium to tempt him. Not to get him as a champion, but to remove a weapon from his opponent's arsenal.

The moment Kaladin gives his pain to Odium he gives Odium leverage over him. So Kal wouldn't be a functioning radiant but a compromised one in my opinion. /edit: And that would destroy the trust of so many and would probably be a serious blow to morale and fighting power for team radiant.

I'd use that line as proof for the topic-title.

That is pure speculation and considering how much they abandoned already that requirement would be but a drop in the ocean.

I really LOVE the idea that the "decision makers" (the 9 fused) have to sacrifice so much to get into this position. That shows that they understand a lot about power and how it corrupts and also indicates that they were (at some point) rather advanced socially. (it certainly appears to be more advanced than Altethi culture in which basically the most powerful decides) The idea that you can only become of the the big decision makers (rulers of your fellow singers) if you sacrifice all your personal ambitions/luxuries to make sure that your decisions are actually based on what is best for your "country" and not for you personally.. ensures that certain types of politicians never reach those high offices.

I don't think that Moash is stronger than Nale! He's a herald and has a bit more experience at fighting than Moash. Additionally if you give Nale the Windrunner sword he gains additional advantages.

I am not sure I can accept that as a reason. And anyway, who was talking about bringing Adolin along

Hmmm, they act pretty ruthlessly once their interests are concerned. Trying to kill Jasnah, not caring about the additional casualties.. I don't say that they are evil, many organizations or people act that way, but ... yeah, ruthlessly selfish fits them better than "evil". Latest summary: 19 Formless 14 Ishnah 15 "other"

Some honorspren did make "the jump" to the real world to form some bonds. But now their biggest city (and maybe the others as well) get attacked / besieged ... can an honorspren really leave their stronghold under those conditions to form some new bonds? Or aren't they obligated to defend their city? Isn't that honorable? It's not a hard choice either to form bonds to create some more windrunners instead of watching the end of the world. I think there are more honorspren willing than actually do it, but something (or someone) holds them back. Like a siege. Or some funky magic stuff that makes the transition between the realms more risky.

I'd say the opposite is true. Kaladin made the leader of the honorspren that "captured" Syl see what the real danger is and it worked out perfectly. And now that the voidspren are actually in Shadesmar and Odium is back, that more than anything else shows that Syl was right and that those spren should bond some more radiants!

The "obvious" way would be to use lightweaving, impersonate two honorspren (Shallan + Pattern) and sneak in. But this way has 3-4 serious disadvantages: 1. It's risky because if they are caught there might be consequences. 2. They are on a timer if they do that because of the fast dwindling stormlight (Shadesmar + constant lightweaving). 3. No cooperation from the local honorspren. 4. If Lasting Integrity is getting besieged (what we have to assume) you need to sneak past the besieger and the besieged. Sooo... I think Shallan is going to ask Kaladin for help. He has a freaking lighteye-honorspren in Syl and additionally he (and Dalinar) has a vested interest in figuring out why no more honorspren come forth to bond. And we know how secretive Shallan is, so she'll probably use Dalinar's and Kaladin's honorspren-problem as a coverstory why they should go to LI to "investigate". I presume that the other honorspren are not "holding back" on purpose to stifle the windrunners but because their honor doesn't allow them to leave their home-city alone while it is getting attacked by voidspren. What do you think? Completely off the mark or bullseye?

I'm looking at the other books right now, I translate them (literally) for you, then you can judge for yourself: 1. The Way of Kings (=The Way of Kings) 2. The Path of Winds 3. The Words of Light (=Words of Radiance) 4. The Storms of Rage/Anger/Fury 5. The Call of Blades (=Oathbringer) 6. The Splinters of Power 7. The (female) Dancer on the Edge / Abyss (=Edgedancer) 8. The Rhythm of War (=Rhythm of War) 9. The Tower of Lights I never looked at the German book titles before. It's seems someone forces them to be ... symmetric. And I have to admit, they don't spoil nearly as much as they do with their scifi-title-translations. I wonder why they named the second book "The Path of Winds", does anyone have a theory? Looking at the titles, comparing them with each other and with the knowledge we already have, one thing seems clear: This "Tower of Lights" (whatever it is) will play a significant role during the second part of the RoW.

"The Tower of Light" is a misleading translation (not that I blame Google to do it on purpose :p). A more literal translation is: "The Tower of the Lights" or maybe "The Tower of Lights" Very strange. It doesn't look like a spren fortress to me (neither does the surrounding) and the blurp also mentions Urithiru ... So I don't think Lasting Integrity is depicted. The German translators have a very bad reputation with scifi-tv-show-fans at least. They regularly spoil important "things" in their titles instead of staying true to the English original title that is generally far more ... nebulous. So if someone betrays the team in the show you can bet that the German title will call the episode "deadly treason" while the English title is something like "New Grounds" (that tells you absolutely nothing). Yeah, that was an actual example from SG1 ^^

I'm in the camp that thinks that Shallan has already met him. Namely when Restares recruited her brother...

I like how divided we are on the subject. 12 people think it's formless. 9 people think it's Ishnah. 10 people think it's someone else. That's pretty well done by Mr. Sanderson! I'm sure our suspicions will change during the following chapters whenever we get some more clues. But if we get closer to the spy of we maybe just play into his or her hands.. who knows. Exciting

So far the prevailing theory gets confirmed by this poll. I'd love to read the reasons for the different picks ~ And so far nobody suspects Adolin's guards...

Hoi guys and girls! Who doesn't know at least one person who "knew it from the start", "had told you so", "has seen the carefully hidden clues 2 books ago that nobody else has picked up on"... This is the thread to go on the record. Tell us who you think did it and why/how. Looking forward to it. I think hoiditthroughthegrapevine made a very convincing argument for Ishnah. But despite that the favorite theory in this forum seems to be that it was Formless. If I have to go on the record with the knowledge I have right now: I say Gaz is the killer. He's mentally weak. He's easily blackmailable because he is addicted to gambling. And we all know that the character of the person doesn't change because you become a squire or even a radiant. (hope Teft is doing good nowadays)

That might be so, but you are arguing that it makes no difference if you have positive or negative stimuli and that I really doubt. Even though I admit I am not an expert it contradicts common sense to say that "external factors" (e.g. friends, a loving-boy/girlfriend, a healthy relationship with your parents) have no effect on your mental well-being.