bmcclure7

1.You're confusing shards with vessels. 2. But yes are dispute seems to be weather sovereignty/supority is the same as omnipotent. You seem to think it is, I do not since I can think of examples of someone being supreme/sovereign and not being Onipotent.

Ok I think I have misunderstood you or you just misunderstood me or both. You just reflect my own position back at me leaving me confused about what were are arguing about. Please let me clarify my position and then clarify yours. "while God is omnipotent, he is also perfect. Everything listed are not things he is incapable of doing for lack of power, but because he will not allow himself to do them." Yes!!! exactly !!!!! This has been my position the hole time. God is all powerful, but that power is limited by his sinless nature. He cannot lie not because he lacks the power to but because of his sinless nature. In like manner the shards are also all powerful but limited by there nature (there intent). As the God of Abraham is limited by his sinless. Yes harmony has the power to destroy the Set and send the bomb into space, but his intent prevent him because his nature (intent) is inaction, just as God's nature is holiness. Vessel. Vessel are not gods, their the men who hold god leash. Shards are more then mere forces they have will and even likes ( RoW), but I the same time they aren't full living things and require vessel to control them. Vessel are not all powerful and since shards can only act at there command, they act as another limiter to the shards omnipotence. This why vessel can not see the future perfectly or into the beyond. Not because a shard cant reach, (they can RoW) but because vessel are mortal and can't see. That is my position. If there is anything I didn't clarify, ask and I will answer. Please also clarify your position as your last post has left me completely confused as to what that is.

Sorry typo I ment to say that if what you were saying was true he couldn't do both. He see preservation and talks with Rune. So there is not class of intents. Again your mistaking Omniscience with sovereignty. You can have both of course but these are separated things. As a said a dictator can be sovereign but not Omnipotent.

1. Exactly all powerful, total or complete in power, not can do anything. Someone can have all the power to do anything but still be unable to do everything. It is impossible for God to: 1. Lie 2. Sin 3. Give the promise land to Abraham until the wickedness of the canaanites was complete 4. forgive sin without atonement Give these are all he cannot do Give that you say that if you can't do something you are not all powerful then either: You are right and God is not All-powerful Or You are wrong and God is omniscient One of these is true but not both.

1. I strongly disagree the, if the powers weren't connect to intent then harmony would be able to do both. 2. A dictator is supreme(with in his domain) he not all powerful clearly this is not the same thing. Infinities can be separated by quality. Considered 1,2,3 to infinity And 3, 6, 9 to infinity

1. No that definition of all powerful. All powerful means nothing is to hard for you. Not that you can do anything If it did then even the Abrahamic God would not be all powerful. 2. Investiture bends time we have already seen this. 3. Lifeless exist so yes they can bring back the dead 4. We don't know if alternative universe exists in the cosmere and if they did we have no reason to believe that investigature could access them. 5. If the shards are not the Abrahamic God then all the more reasons your definition is incorrect. If even the Abrahamic God can't be considered omnipotent by your definition then what can? 6. Exactly far before the twist of human origins was reviled the storm father foreshadow it. Glad we agree.

1. You're the only one rejecting my definition of Omniscience, Not the other way around. 2. Supremacy Is a separate issue, The Abrahamic of God is omniscience and He is sovereign. But that does not make them the same things. I agree that none of the cosmere shards are sovereign over each other. 3. I think you need to read the quote. It clearly says the shard power is infinite so infinity times 2 really doesn't get you anywhere. That's why Doubling shards doesn't make you more powerful. 4. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that Doubling shards doesn't get you something. As we see of harmony Doubling intents can give you the powers Associated with those intents. As You mention above, Ruin could speak to minds, Preservation could hear them. Odium can do Neither but seems to be able to take away a emotion. It does seem that the shards are limited by their intent when interacting with people. But this is not the same thing as being more powerful. Unless you're changing the Quality and not the quantity of your infinity, Infinity times 2 is still infinity.

1. And those entities are referred to as spren, moving on. 2. Reread it, Multiple times before the twist At the end of oathbringer The storm father says that they do not know the reason for the recreants and that the reason they think is wrong but refuses to tell them The true reason. Odium says as much at least once. 3a. You can literally do all those things with investigature. 3b. And even if you couldn't so what, Just because there are things you can't do with that power doesn't mean you don't have unlimited power. The long as the reason you can't do them is not I don't have enough power. 3c. Brandon sepacifically uses the Abrahamic God in that wob, As his example for omniscience but By your words the Abrahamic God is not Omniscient, Since there are plenty of things he can't do. May I suggest broadening your criteria for omniscience. 4. Breath is the power not the command. You give the lifeless to command awaken. You can give it more commands after that without reawakening them Because All those other commands are subsets Of your original command "awaken" Similarly Adonalsium Doesn't have to reissue the command "change" Because every use of the dawn shard change is within the criteria of his original command. Think Of it like someone commanding you to go to the store. He doesn't have to tell you Walk 5 paces, open the door, walk to the car, get out car keys, and so on. This is because all those commands are included in the command to go to the store.

1. Spen are cognitive entities 2. Multiple times by the Storm father, one by odium. Read stormlight. 3. Being not limited by amount of power is the definition of omnipotence. 4."They are not omnipotent, though the power is infinite. " he said the shards power in infinite, that's the definition of omnipotent. 5.Yes, and lifeless don't constantly need to be reawakened, I don't see your point.

Not he is not Read RoW ( I have brought this point up multiple times stop ignoring it) Infinite or not nessarly equal so it should be theoretically possible that Adonalsium was more powerful despite all the shards having unlimited power.

1.That wob is not saying anything other then that spren and cognitive enties. 2. Except we were told over and over again that everyone was wrong about the recreance, no such for shadowing exist for Adonalsium. 3. You're ignoring the wobs where he has said that they do including the one I quoted earlier. Not mention RoW. 4.Bradon contradict himself in that very wob. So it's confusing at best hardly proof of anything. 5.No it wouldn't make the a one time use, just look at awakening.

1. Adonalsium was not more powerful less limited yes but not more powerful read RoW 2. I see the confusion, I'm using the abrahamic definition of omnipotence, you appear to using a more general theist definition. Sadly I don't see how this discussion can continue as long as we use different definitions we might as well be take to a wall, both right yet both wrong.

1. Wrong neither of of them are. 2. They have his Cognitive essence in it What more proof do you possibly need. 3. At this point you're just in denial, making Outlandish conspiracy theories,supposing that every character is either lying to the reader or wrong. 4. It's quite simple The dawn shards are commands by the creator to the universe to create life. By definition if I give someone a command I no longer have the command they do.

1. No it's not, Adonalsium predate the universe, And if the Aethers are truly independent of him Then they would have predated it as well. There is no reason to think that divine beings like Adonalsium or the aethers would need the universe to exist. Some who exist beyond the natural universe does not need the natural universe to exist. 2. Please reread Dawnshard, They are specifically described as the commands of the creator to his creation. They contain Bits of Adonalsium Cognitive essence. Yes he created them , yes he used them This is not up for dispute reread dawnshard. 3. I could not possibly speculate On the motivations of a being that is beyond our understanding and who's Motivations and goals we know next to nothing about. 4. I would also like to add that he had to give them the dawnshards or else he couldn't create life. As to create life is the function of the dawnshards.

Ok so we don't know that much about voiding binding. But we know it parallels the surges Is from both for Renaran and the void binding chart. I thought we could speculate on possible void versions of the surges Will we get it right Probably not, But I thought it could be fun anyways. 1. Regrowth: Maybe something similar to Soul Forgery. Restores objects instead of people. 2. Soul casting: maybe a mix of soul Forgery and shapeshifting. 3. Cohesion, Tension: Maybe something akin to emotional elementary. We do see something like that from void Spven and the unmade. Any other ideas or speculation?

The aethers Say that he didn't create them they say nothing about not creating the universe. I don't think you understand what the dawn shards are. There his comands used to create life. There are the greatest evidence we have that he created the universe in fact the mere existence pretty much proves That he did. I don't see how bringing them up proves anything.

Aethers claim independence not rivalry. I agree shards are limited by their intent. And as of yet no. One shard can claim Supermacy . But I fail what to see what this has to do with anything? How does this pertain to your point?

Expecting literal every character who has every knowledge tell us that.

Are you really claiming that adonalsium didn't create the universe? We have no evidence to suggest that and wabs are in the books. To Brandon Sanderson has said multiple times that I adonalsium didn't have any rivals. Which seems to preclude Some other God that made the universe. In addition even if there was I don't Think that's a guarantee that his power wasn't infinite. How is it ambiguous who he was. I've never found any ambiguity about him.

True but neither is it evidence against.

Maybe but that hasn't not been Disconfirmed either. And Brandon didn't correct him.

You seem confused on the meaning of essentially es·sen·tial·ly /əˈsen(t)SHəlē/ Learn to pronounce adverb adverb: essentially used to emphasize the basic, fundamental, or intrinsic nature of a person, thing, or situation. "essentially, they are amateurs" 2 infinates are not necessarily equal 3. Considered this wob Questioner For Adonalsium to create the universe, therefore he must have infinite power to create an infinitely sized universe. Therefore, infinity divided by sixteen is equal to infinity. Therefore, why don't the Shards have infinite power, which they clearly don't, because they can be killed? Brandon Sanderson The power can't be killed. The entity controlling the power can. Infinite power existing and being able to access the infinite power are different things, and a finite mind, even added to a very powerful sense of power, isn't necessarily able to tap all of that. Questioner What about Ruin and Preservation in Well of Ascension? We hear about Ruin using some of its power. Therefore, it must not have infinite power, because if you minus something from infinity, it's still infinity... Brandon Sanderson So, infinite power is changing forms. It's not going anywhere, right? So, the Investiture, the power, is becoming energy, which is doing work, which is being released back into the system. Nothing's growing or shrinking. It is simply changing forms, and potential energy is becoming kinetic. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

That wob is no longer cannon read rythm of war. If there are things that investiture can do but shards can't Then that must be limination of the vessel, Sense other than the vessel a shard is pure investiture.

1. I'm not convinced odium could corrupt up aondor investiture, At least not without merging with it himself. 2. Having limitations doesn't mean you're not All-powerful. We could look to Abrahamic religions As a good example of an All-powerful being that is still limited. Regardless of weatherYou're Jewish Christian or MuslimAll 3 would agree that there are some things that Yhwh Just can't do, So Not being able to do something does not make you not All-powerful as long as the reason for it is not I don't have enough power. I strongly disagree with your statement that just because Other All-powerful beings can counter you that that makes you not All-powerful. To be quite Frank it makes no logical sense. As for the Brandon "and seen into the beyond. I think we're under some confusion you're talking about vessel Whereas I'm talk about investiture, Obviously the investor of shards acaccess the beyond RoW proved it.

We have not Seen an example of aluminum popping a speed bubble. Despite them facing aluminum weapons and tools before. In addition it's a speed bubble so what if aluminum can pop it, It will take the bullet like what 2 hours to reach them. By which time they've already moved and are probably in another speed bubble. Tin Has been shown to be very useful in combat