Oudeis

yeah, we know Ruin has the power to change words. So, maybe two names were expressly added to the list, one to let this girl in to the party, one to give Wayne an idea of who to pretend to be?

The what with what doing what now? I recall this not.

That might be a bit far-reaching... I think he may have had Wayne, with a lot of money and issues regarding kids losing their papa's, and this inventor who lost her papa, and brought them together. It's possible he did even more than that, but it feels like premature speculation at best. I definitely think their meeting was arranged by Harmony. How could this young woman of no means or reputation have made it into an insanely exclusive party otherwise? How would she have gotten an invitation (and a named one, at that, since they weren't excepting general ones)? When the constable who had just saved the Governor's own life was being kept off the list.

Double-posting to admit defeat. Apparently new WoB has it that there are a maximum of two Shards on Scadrial. I suppose it's still possible Trell is some sort of agent of a Shard, maybe a Splinter made for this purpose? But the idea that Trell is an actual shard is down the tubes.

Ah, I think I see what you mean now. Sorry for the confusion.

Well... you're assuming that honor and Honor are the same thing. I can see why you'd assume that, but we have the evidence from the chart that perhaps they aren't. Just my two cents. I like to question assumptions. I had assumed this meant the Well. It was enough of Preservation's power to let someone be a Shard for a few minutes, and it was in the Physical realm. But it could be the Dor.

Is Wayne a descendant of Demoux and Aslyndin? EDIT: Is a Snapped allomancer more likely to pass on allomantic genes than an unSnapped allomancer?

Thanks, Blaze, amazing job! One thing... I think he thought I meant the metalmind was charged with investiture, which it shouldn't be if it's charged with identity Surely, a metalmind fully charged with anything, Identity or health or anything, is full of Investiture? Unless you're saying you think he believed you meant a nicrosilmind specifically and that this would change anything.

Well, certain metals are required for certain types of charges. If he finds out what metal it is, and it does grant an allomantic power, he'll have it narrowed down to four at the most. Presumably, considering how many details were in Spook's book, this was in it, too.

When I was trying to name this thread and realized I was talking about "Trell" possibly existing as far back as classic Scadrial, that is exactly what came into my mind, too. EDIT: I confess, my thoughts on the matter are stymied to an extent by the fact that many Trell discussions apparently spoil an unpublished work, so I'm avoiding them. On that note, I would like to politely request that if anyone wants to bring up the unpublished work in this thread, PLEASE make sure to put everything behind a spoiler cut each time, and accept that I won't be reading them, so I can't respond to any points you make thereby.

There are those who think that Trell is another Shard. One Harmony cannot see and doesn't understand. More importantly, Sazed speaks of how Trell was worshiped in classic Scadrial. So... let's say you're a Shard. And you can see that Scadrial will be an interesting place to be in a few hundred years. Preservation has already set his own plan in motion, so it's not impossible for a Shard to predict, at least in general terms, what's going on. So... what if you slip in now? Ruin is trapped by Preservation, Preservation is currently stupid. You slip in, set up some influence, get worshiped as someone named Trell. Not an awful long con. Maybe he doesn't fully Invest. Just a thought. It came to me tonight over dinner. For all I know, I'll wake up tomorrow and realize why this is totally impossible.

Do pigs actually have any affect on shades?

If anything, I always saw it as of Endowment. "Here, have this coin... REALLY FAST!" "AAAAAH! Thanks!"

We cannot. Per WoB, the historical/social stuff is "canon until it's proven not." All of the "metallic arts" stuff is explicitly non-canon, because they had to come up with rules for everything and they tried to mechanically balance it all. It's basically got the canonicity of fanfiction when it comes to allomancy, feruchemy and hemalurgy. And kandra and koloss. And compounding.

I don't necessarily think it's an error, though since no one has offered a viable alternative, I'm starting to lean that way. I don't buy someone picking them up. The viable spots it could be are just outside the Governor's window, or within his private study. Since martial law was just declared, and the study is probably due to be combed for evidence of the Governor's corruption and crimes, I have difficulty believing Aradel assigned as guards the kind of constable likely to pick up anything he finds especially shiny to sell later... Also, the constables have access to coinshots, probably Lurchers, too, and Wayne really wants these found, and within hours there's nothing else pressing going on. If absolutely nothing else, surely Ranette, who is right in the house with them, would be willing to find them if only to shut him up. There's no reason they'd be especially far away. Not only was this a fly in the ointment of Bleeder's plans, meaning she can't just leave the office empty for a while so no running to the canal to throw them in, but as we see she's nearly at the end of her stored speed, so it seems counter-productive that she'd decide to run super-far away to hide goldminds when putting them... more-or-less anywhere in a house will make them at least as hard to find as Wayne himself. It just rings false to me. Wayne speaks about getting his metalminds back so he can use them, and practically the next scene they're simply gone forever, without any explanation as to why we went from assuming they'd return to accepting their loss. What happened? What changed?

Except that while they're searching for the goldminds he expressly mentions, twice, that if he had them he could heal. Once talking about the injury Bleeder gave him when she took the goldminds, and once talking about how MeLaan should eat him.

Someone just randomly came upon the window outside of the Governor's private study while it was surrounded by constables...

But why not? They're super valuable; not only are they large amounts of gold, they're the store of weeks and weeks of health, which he clearly needs right now for his leg. Any Lurcher or Coinshot should be able to find them pretty quickly. It's pretty minor and I figure it was simply a small continuity error. It just bugs me.

That... does not address my question. What happened to the old ones? Why can't he just use all the health he's been storing all book long? Or the reserves he had before the book started?

So, Wayne doesn't heal when Bleeder grabs him because she pulls off his goldminds. Then later he's hobbling around on crutches because there's no point in storing up health just to use it to heal his leg. ... Where did his goldminds go? Did Bleeder actually destroy them? Were they hidden somewhere so far away, and so well, that even Wax (or Ranette, or one of the conner Coinshots) couldn't find it? I really feel like the fact that he never gets his goldminds back is odd. Obviously not pivotal to the plot anymore at that point, but still really weird.

The mists pulled away from Vin... did that mean she stopped being Mistborn? Mistborn was never a 'scientific' term, it was always colloquial. There weren't very many natural philosophers in those days, certainly not enough to have codified a system of nomenclature. Your assumption that 'Mistborn' means 'not an Inquisitor' is unfounded. Even if true, it's certainly never confirmed in the books, and is therefore speculation. Beyond which, you're still circling the central point. If the 'average scadrian' would call someone mistborn, wouldn't that same person call Tan an atium misting? So, like I said in the first place, it all depends. If, when he answered the question, Mr. Sanderson considered people with hemalurgically granted allomantic atium to be "atium mistings", then no. If he did not, then maybe.

I know the legend at the start is one point of data, and if I had nothing else from the text I would believe it, even though it's been written by people who, we learn, have no idea how Elantrians even work and don't interact with them in a meaningful capacity. However, there are clues in the text, though not as flagrant as in that prelude. There's the fact that if the Elantrian population is growing but they don't die, the city should have been packed to the gills, which doesn't seem to be the case. Gallodan's dad did not die of heartbreak; he died of a heart condition. He could have gotten it healed, but it didn't heal on its own. Elantrians heal quickly and suffer the ravages of time better... but not perfectly, clearly. Given the concrete facts provided in other parts of the book, and the apocryphal nature of the prelude, I'm tempted to believe the hard data.

I think he's saying that "mistborn" is just a word people use, not a scientific term. If it means, "a person who can burn all the metal allomantically," then an Inquisitor fits the description. My point was, we now he's not an atium misting. You seemed to be asking, well what if he got the power to burn atium allomantically via hemalurgy? If by 'atium Misting' Mr. Sanderson simply meant "a person who can allomantically burn atium," then no, Bloody Tan did not have a spike to get allomantic atium. If he meant "a person naturally Snapped as a Seer," then it's still an option. I am pointing out that he has said that someone with a lot of spikes could be considered Mistborn, so while it's only a point of data, it does seem to indicate that he thinks of 'misting' as someone who can burn the metal, regardless of how they got the power.

I concur that if it wasn't meant to be a mystery, this is the obvious reading. Since it's what people flat-out say frequently. Maybe it's an alloy? Trellim-pewter to steal Idashwy's power, trellium-steel to make her a coinshot? The way lerasium-bronze would make you a misting of bronze, maybe these alloys take a trait in a way that allows it to be granted to a kandra.

It all depends on whether or not you consider someone a Misting whether they Snapped their powers normally or got it via spike. Recent WoB suggests that Mr. Sanderson at least (in this instance) considered someone a Mistborn if they got all their allomantic power from hemalurgy.