Wind_Breaker

On 15.12.2020 at 0:52 AM, HoidvsVoid said:

I would much rather Moash be a hurdle for our heroes to overcome than a cliche "bad guy becomes good again" trope.

I decided that based on which character I care about more. Moash, or Kaladin and the Radiants? Moash doesn't even come close.

While a Moash redemption arc may possibly be satisfying if written well enough, I believe that Moash written as a villain can provide so much more depth to the overall story and characters, especially Kaladin.

I agree 100% on the last paragraphs. About the other two points though - let's say, I definitely would love more development for Moash than Zane got, for example. That would be cool. I really like his character, although I was mad when reading about who he killed, of course. So if he gravitates back towards the good side, maybe not all the way through, or finds his own path aside those of Honour or Odium - why the heck not.

4 hours ago, Elegy said:

As it's planned right now, book 7 will be the Truthwatcher and Renarin flackback book.

And I am super excited about that. I'd love to learn a little more bout Renarin's abilities before that: That moment he shows Moash another possible version of himself: Is that Renarin's (corrupted) light-weaving? Is it a standard Truthwatcher thing? Or a Sja-Anat thing? ahhhh

I agree. I mean, do you really think that Happiness will have a serious chance at driving a wedge between Salading? :/

I mean - you know that Sufferadin can be a problematic ship, but since those two have such a long history I cannot really believe that Happydin will last.

10 minutes ago, Impact said:

I'm not sure why they being gay is such a big deal to people?  Is it "cramming it in" that we have so many major hetero characters? BS literally crammed in the fact that Kaladin had a failed relationship into like 2 sentences and a couple throw backs, and he has depression.  Not sure why someone can be depressed and hetero but someone can't be autistic and gay...

This might be about the amount of issue characters and the overall story arcs will have with it.

Kaladin struggles with depression a lot and has short-lived relationships, which is important to the character, well written, but still tires me when reading sometimes. Renarin has struggled (so far) with being epileptic & autistic, non-conforming to things people expect of him bc of his sex/gender and status (see the discussion with Zahel about why he doesn't want to become an ardent), and with being an outsider. While that was super interesting to read and made me warm to his character quickly and we had some awesome Renarin moments, to me, Renarin is one of The Struggling Guys. These books are about struggling, so that is fine. But I'd say the calm moments, the awesomeness, and the struggle have been 33/33/33 so far, and I am in for some happier moments. Drehy is confronted with some bureaucratic issues from Sigzil and surprise from his captain for being gay. That's it. That last one is an entertaining tidbit, nice to read; no exhausting struggle there.

Now, if Rlain struggles with being an outsider, being a singer among humans, and being gay and all of that are huge issues all around, it's possibly annoying/exhausting to read. I, for example, would prefer to read about some happy, fun moments between these two, and less about overall What are we to do panic. But I am also pretty sure that Brando will put some thought in it and make it good, so - yeah.

1 hour ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

i heard it might be revenge, because odium is primarily hatred, and cultivation is growth; when hatred is allowed to grow, it oftentimes leads to revenge.

Oh, THAT is. Huh. Possible.

That is exactly what the spren-killing daggers were created for, right? I thought they worked exactly like that,

At the moment I'm pretty sure the Odium + Cultivation light is something like / tied to Civilization or Building, since Venli can hear both tones when she stoneshapes in chapter 83. So yeah, there could really be some architectural name for this haha.

I'd like to know what Towerlight (I thought it's obviously called tower light because it powers the tower of Urithiru) actually stands for. If O+H Light symbolises War, O+C Light is probably Civilization as I said, and I guess O+H Light could be Conquest or Exploration or something, and H+C?

You want to grow something with honour and principles; what is that? I also feel like while Cultivation symbolises the growing, changing, spontaneous side of nature, Honour is more the principles and structures people live by, so those two make me think about Scrum Basics and how projects and tasks are sorted into complicated (honor) and complex (cultivation). So to me, Towerlight is Scrum Light. Hmmm. Life is kind of made up of strict principles and of uncontrollable things. Nature is, too. Society is. Urgh. This is hard.

Also, what if we mix Towerlight with the Rythm of War for example? We'd get 2x Honor, 1x Cultivation and 1x Odium. That mix is pretty interesting.

Hearing the tones helps or enables Venli with stoneshaping, so I think that If Odium + Honour = War (being passionate with honour? or rather all the bad vibes plus fervour and honour mixed), Odium + Cultivation is probably something like Civilization. It'll be something that can mean cultivating something with drive/fervour/passion, or mixing all (negative, unyielding) passion with the desire to grow something.

Maybe "War" is what both Navani and Raboniel call the H+O rythm, but it actually means conquest. That, to me, is the closest neutral concept that could be tied to odium + honour mixing in people.

On 13.12.2020 at 9:30 AM, Oltux72 said:

If that were the issue they could just live in Shadesmar.

Well, OK, anything can happen. Kaladin is going to marry Cultivation and their babies will be half dragons and fly around the valley. And Oroden will bond the Nightwatcher and become the third Bondsmith.

Since Kaladin IS, somehow, a son of Tanavast, that would make those two having some kind of bond somehow not that far-fetched and it would make this ship all the more gaaah. Damn. I checked what kind of Kaladin ships there are on ao3 once. I was wheezing. Kaladin/Cultivation is not yet on there. It might until book 10. I have trust in people's abilities to just smush characters who haven't asked for it together.

[Don't misunderstand my attitude; I did ship some crack in my life. Not in SA though]

I agree with @agrabes; Kaladin will probably not start any romance soon. He might far off in the future, but right now, he has too many demons to battle.

So, just to make sure: Has anyone any idea who the guy who (according to Kaladin's guesses) salvages stuff from battlefields, has some kind orf store in Urithiru and happens to have some personal items of Bridge 4 for sale could be?

Is it a worldhopper? Is it someone who knows things, due to Investiture or some connection to something? Someone special at all or more of a fourth wall character?

I have absolutely no clue. But I really want to know more.

On 10.12.2020 at 5:27 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Worth noting that Teft momentarily managed to summon Phen as a blade as he approached the fourth ideal. Excuse me while I curse out Moash.

That scene had me worried Vyre would kill one more Radiant just short from their next oath. AHHH

3 hours ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

so odium made kaladin fight a fused, which is a servant of odium?

Yeah. The Fused can be reborn; and he'd gain Kaladin. Worth it, from Odium's perspective.

I found that moment pretty neat. And a little terrifying.

23 hours ago, Starla said:

This reminds me of a crackpot idea I had during the Hearthstone chapters in part 1, but what if that region is associated with Honor somehow? Navani mentions hearing a "pure tone" when Dalinar opens the perpendicularity there, and in Oathbringer Syl mentions hearing a "pure tone like cracked crystal" when they arrive in Hearthstone. Could this be Honor's tone? Also, the Windrunner River runs through that area, and Nazh has marked Hearthstone on the Alethkar map in Oathbringer. If I recall correctly from Dalinar's visions, Alethkar was generally associated with Windrunners, So perhaps there is some connection between Honor and the Hearthstone area, similar to how Cultivation is associated with the Valley.

That doesn't even seem crackpot but pretty possible to me. Cool

Honour was probably shattered in the middle of the Shattered Plains right? Narak?

Cool idea. I think it's possible. Just - Kaladin is not from Narak.

7 hours ago, Ookla the Mok Turtle Soup said:

Try copying from Word into Notepad, and then copy it and paste it to the forum from Notepad, that should remove the all of the text formatting.

Or if you are on Mac you can try just clearing the text formatting in Word before you copy and paste, in Word use the menu command EDIT>Clear>Clear Formatting.

It works!!!! Thank you,

Okay! Some more thoughts on RoW:

Feelings and top moments

So to me, the Sanderlanche got real in part 5.
AHHHH Dadlinar in action, helping Kaladin with his 4th ideal?? I had some tears in my eyes. Daaaamnnnn.
The other big tear jerker to me was Eshonai’s last chapter.
„We chose“ was my number one moment of epicness in RoW. Kaladin’s 4th ideal and him slamming the Pursuer are right after. My top mind blowing moments were The Taravangian, The Epilogue ending, and, place three, We chose.

I actually groaned out loud when people got slaughtered in this book. Because it’s so useless and such a waste of life. Well done, Brandon.

Surprises and things I missed.

I was not prepared for that one Taravangian chapter. I couldn’t believe I had just read it.

My theory was that Rlain would find a spren from another order. I didn’t expect the cremling thing to be the spren. I am immensely looking forward to seeing more of Renarin’s and Rlain’s powers. I need to. I want to know what Truthwatchers can actually do!!! And Willshapers. All of them. So yeah - I pin high hopes on SA5 for this. And I am very curious to see what powers Rlain especially can access with his rythm of war mistspren and if and how they differ from Renarin’s. Is Glys also a mistspren or some other spren? Also, is Venli’s stoneshaping tied to her listener/voidlight powers? That’s how I understood it.

I never thought Jasnah/Wit would ever happen. That surprised me. A lot. But I am not mad, like - okay wow. Why the heck not. I’m happy Jasnah found someone she can tolerate. It had to be a half-immortal worldhopper of old, I guess.

I didn’t notice Kelsier. At all. I needed the forum for this.

Good things for SA5

I’m happy to see that Leshwi will stay part of the cast. I like that they have good relations to Urithiru.
I love Adin. He needs to play a role again. Please.

That epilogue worried me. Like damn, I am looking forward to what Odium is planning. Also to see how scheming Cultivation really is.

Ahh I really loved the new rhythms. That really intruged me, and I hope we’ll see a little more of them. I also wonder if all shards can produce different rythms and lights on Roshar. I think it’s already pretty safe / canon they can.

Open questions

One question that went unanswered to me was who the merchant is who happened to have some things Bridge 4 has lost? Like, okay, people salvage stuff and sell it; fair enough; but I feel like if who the merchant is won’t matter again, Brandon would have put some information there, like „the guy is an old Thaylen man“ or something.

Random Moash idea / theory: so Kaladin will become the inspiration for a new religion, probably. Just like Dalinar. I wondered, pretty randomly, if Moash would gain followers, or become a religious figure.

Also - Did Hoid tell Odium to please wash his hands -because he had no better idea at that moment -because he refers to something that happened and has some significance -because Brandon included some reference to COVID-19?

Also: Dalinar's plot seems to be a constant serahc for who he is actually supposed to unite. He thinks it's the Highprinces in WoK; the Radiants in RoW; the kingdoms of Roshar in OB; and the Heralds at the end of WoR. I am curious to see whether that will lead somewhere. As some people said, he might try to unite the Shards in the end (and never know what Tanavast acually wanted him to unite, which is not that important because Dalinar just keeps being awesome haha).

Things I miss

Adolin could have gotten an awesome plot. I really hope he gets some more character / screen time. Things to do. An extended plot to have.

And yeah I agree about Adolin @Ammanas. He is a character who feels like, huh, a warm bath after a really hard day?? I'll work on my metaphors.

6 hours ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

I mean, I'm not leaning towards discarded shells and all but I believe Tanavast and Cultivation did have children and a direct implication I can provide is from this line spoken in Ch 66 of Rhythm of War: 

  Hide contents

“No,” Dalinar said. “No, oaths are part of what define morality, Taravangian. A good man must strive to accomplish the things he’s committed to do.”

“Spoken like a true son of Tanavast,” Taravangian said, clasping his hands. “And I believe you, Dalinar. I believe you think exactly what you say. You are a man of Honor, raised to it through a life of his religion—­which you might be upending, but it retains its grip on your mind.

You can see  'son' is written in small caps, so I assume it was intentional to implicate Shardic children exist. 

Wow. Still, those sons of Tanavast can still be biological or figurative.

I also wonder about Moash's insistence that Kaladin can't be killed just like the Storm can't be killed. Again: is that bc Moash is instable and a twisted Kaladin reverer (figurative), ooor does he know something we do not know yet (he is literally the storm somehow)?

9 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Way ahead of you I've gathered every peice of information about Kaladin in this reguard

 

Haha thank you, fellow Seeker of Secrets!

Reading that recap was pretty interesting. Hmmm. So I guess "there is something about Kaladin's ancestry, possibly through Hesina [her father had a strong will and was protective of her being taken by a guy, which could also be just a minor detail, right]" is my favourite right now.

Also, !! since "Kalak" is the Storm and din is a suffix, "Kaladin Stormblessed" must be a pretty epic alliteration / parallelism in Alethi. Kaladin Kala____. (do we know how the Alethi express "blessed"?). 

On 7.12.2020 at 10:02 AM, GameOfGroans said:

On an unrelated note, just how many Ooklas are there around here?

This. I wondered. This is a mystery.

OP, I didn't notice the caps! Thaks for pointing that out!!

I somehow just rolled with the scene, thought "ah so Bondsmiths can share repsonsibilities with their spren" and read on. I think Dalinar will become something more epic than the Stormfather eventually. Or stay himself, which would also be nice.

2 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Every Skybreaker needs to pledge themselves to a code. Although they probably did the other thing too, it wasn’t a prerequisite.

Oh right! Sooo Lirin would probably pledge himself to - hm. He IS a kind of protector. He IS a pretty stern judge of killers, but also wants to help everyone equally if they ask him. I think that would stay with him. His new crusade would probably be about the little man / everyone / the simple people and less about big players (like Szeth's crusade against the Shin guys in power which he's planning)

5 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

There’s also option three: Lirin had a very understandable trauma response. I actually had less issue with that than some of his later statements in the infirmary, until I realized he thought Kaladin was already dead from his internal wounds at that point and that was his way of coping with it.

I don’t think Lirin could be a Nale Skybreaker. I think he could be an original type Skybreaker, which could include someone who followed the Pirates’ Code. I think he would reach his third Oath pretty quickly, and his Spren would help him find a more reasonable Crusade. His current one isn’t particularly workable.

I also love the idea of father and son in rival Orders.

Trauma response: OHHHH yes. Yeah that makes sense too. (I had some vague Well Lirin is also uprooted and very stressed out in my head, but I didn't get to the point of seeing that he just suffered soem severe trauma).

Pirate Code: You mean the original Skybreakers put together a long list of codes of conduct? Or every Skybreaker has to find their individual code and live according to it?

Yeah that convinces me. I am pretty hooked on Skybreaker!Lirin now lol. I also hope we see some more of how people interact when the orders have been established for a while, and group dynamics settle in. There was some Hogwarts Houses style split, as we know from WoR (the people from Order X are all like that, and Windrunners and Skybreakers ended up smashing each other's heads in because of serious moral disagreements).

On 18.11.2020 at 7:09 AM, Arch1tect said:

Which of course is Spanish for "the"

Are we looking at hemalurgy here?

It is also Hebrew for "God"

Wheeew. El has carapace so I guess he is not human? At least part Parshendi? It is super curious that he rips his carapace off and rplaces it with metal. Is that where your hermalugy idea comes from?

On 12/12/2020 at 4:33 PM, IllNsickly said:

Nope. 
 

Lirin gets absolutely ZERO latitude from me. A man who can look at his son and say the things that he did from a position of simple ideology is simply a terrible person.

Irredeemable.

Lirin is a terrible person trying to masquerade as a Pacifist.

I'm trying to figure out what makes the difference in opinions here. The reactions in this thread can be summarized as

1. Lirin is understandable (/he overreacted/didn't mean it/is still a loving parent etc.)

2. I hate him for what he said to Kaladin. (He potentially did unforgivable damage)

a) The two attitudes are probably about how we'd deal with a fight in which a parent tells us we are monsters. Or with criticism in general. I am part of the Lirin is still a cool character and understandable crew. Like, I would obviously be super angry at both my parents, but since my mom and I have heated discussions sometimes, and very different conflict styles, I would know we'd figure this out eventually, it was said out of anger. To make me back down maybe, or see the magnitude of the parent's hurt. I'd be hurt and then rationalize it.

b ) I don't feel the need to jump to Kaladin's defense either. That is another thing I suppose about the f* Lirin crowd: You want to protect Kaladin, who is down already, and gets called a pretty condemning thing about his character. Which can leave a pretty destructive mark on his identity.

Please feel free to throw in your thoughts, F* Lirin Crowd!

I once saw a discussion on Reddit about a rpg in which people also reacted to a certain decision in the game in that bipolar way. (Dragon Age Inquisition; gay upper class mage Dorian goes to meet someone, sees it's his father who tried to alter his sexual orientation with blood magic bc in their society, while you can live any sexuality you want, you, as an upper class person, have to produce heirs, and Dorian doesn't want to. Father wants to talk and apologize). Roughly the two discussed reactions were a) I encourage him to talk it out and then leave with me to calm down and think about it. The relationship with his father is one of Dorian's deepest wounds and he needs to address the man himself to have a chance at healing b ) I get him out immediately without giving his father a chance to speak. Dorian shouldn't suffer any more abuse, not a second of it. The redditors tried to find ties between how people had grown up, how their relations with their parents were, and how they decided in-game. I feel like this is very similar to the Lirin hate thread here.

@Kingsdaughter613  Me too! I'm curious to see whether Lirin will ever join any military effort. Doesn't look like it atm, but since not all Radiants necessarily fight all the time, I could imagine him as a Skybreaker who refuses to kill. That, again, would probably clash with Nale. And he probably wouldn't get too far with his oaths. Ad it will probably not happen anyway.

On 12/1/2020 at 2:13 PM, Bliev said:

Dalinar is the same as Lirin lol. He's fundamentally disappointed in his son's life choices and thinks he is treading down a dangerous path devoid of Honor. They're both dogmatic and rigid. Dalinar couldn't even look his sons in the eyes and admit he killed their mom. Look, I love me some Dalinar, but good dad he is not.  

Yet. Let's see if he can fix his relationship with Adolin in Book 5. 

Oh I agree completely!

8 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

115

Thank you!!! (I used up my upvotes for today sadly.)

3 minutes ago, Ernei said:

Have you tried Ctrl+Shift+v?

Hey!

Yeah; it looks like this:

Things I miss

Adolin could have gotten an awesome plot. I really hope he gets some more character / screen time, things to do...

Edit: Copypasting some frum post to my word document changes the formatting. That didn't help.

On 29.11.2020 at 3:07 PM, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Since Odium got an upgrade in RoW I’m expecting some big things . I absolutely have no idea who it will be . But there are some interesting options 

 

1. El : this Fused is so feared his name is not to be spoken . Even the Pursuer watched his mouth around him . I suspect he is of a type we have not seen yet . One that uses Division !

2. Moash even though he is blinded . I expect Odium can grant him an ability to compensate for loss of eyesight . Like sonar kind of like Daredevil . 
 

3. Nale seeing how he is a Herald and handle Szeth like an unruly stepchild this is almost the worst option for Dalinar . He would be outmatched in fighting skill for sure 

 

4. Adolin : I predicted Adolin to be Odium long ago . Born under the sign of the nine . Pissed at Dalinar for killing his mom . But mostly because he is the one person Dalinar would not want to kill which sounds like Todium all day . I like Adolin a lot so I hope this is not the case . But I would be wrong not to consider him 

5. Someone we haven’t seen yet . My least favorite guess . As this is totally not like Brandon. To not foreshadow this .

 

 

Lastly I don’t like Dalinar being his own champion . I keep thinking about the old lawyer adage . The guy who represents himself has a fool for a client . Dalinar doesn’t have shards and baring him gaining an Honor blade he won’t have shards . Sooo he would be better off letting. Kaladin do it . Or maybe using his bond smith powers to connect himself to Taln and try and borrow his abilities perhaps . I really would like Taln restored to be Dalinar champion but hey Dalinar seems dead set on kicking ass himself .

 

what do you guys think ? Who will be Odiums champion ?

I could also imagine that someone else steps up instead of Dalinar, for some reasons.

El: I hope we see more of this apparent badass. Quite possible, but there'd have to be some build-up.

Moash: Yeah, I can see that coming, though I am not sure whether Moash will be stabe and powerful enough. Maybe with some Taravangian meddling / him influencing Moash in another way than Rayse did, that could happen.

Nale: Huuuuh. Sounds like a good pick. My gut feelings tells me no, he wasn't built up for that.

Adolin: I want some cool storyline for Adolin. This on eis my favourite so far.