Meg

To be honest: IMHO MSH should have been released in a few month when the first excitement after Bands of Mourning was gone. . But be it as it is, it's out now. . Though I'm sure I have a heart (*smile* @ Voidus) I didn't get very emotional while reading it. I am positively surprised by Kelsier being (or acting) not as arrogant as he did in TFE. . So, yes, Khriss! . Hoid interfering doesn't take me wonder, though. . Thinking of Hoid and Spanky (btw: what's it about Spanky, I don't recall such a person?) I wonder how Khriss and Nazh as well as the *Elantrians* and their guards wanted to travel the land? Hoid said (as I recall it) that a physical person would fall down in the mists even possibly forever? Would there be enough rivers to stretch from one coast to another? Is there another *shardpool* for traveling between the realms? . Also I wonder if it is really necessary to run around in the Cognitive Realm as one does in the Physical? Wouldn't one be able to *will* oneself to another location? At least if one is a Cognitive Shadow? . Did I miss it or was the name "Leras" really never mentioned? Yeah, Ati was mentioned, but never Leras. Or am I blind? . Oh, there are lots of other thoughts in my brain twirling around. . All in all: Thank you, Mr. Sanderson, for letting us see behind the

Hmm I went to get Bands of Mourning after work and now I'll start reading it. And yes, I'm telling you that because I'm mean and feel some malicious joy to see that some Americans didn't get it yet while I already got it.

Thank you, Moogle. I've read that thread (mostly) and tried again to experiment with java. Disabling java brings line breaks when using the plain text editor but it brings also lots of commands that I would have to delete (such as ). I'll see what that update will bring.

I'm using different browsers at home (Opera) and at work (Firefox). I already tried Firefox at home and Opera at work and IE on both computers also -- the result is the same as described. When pasting text I tried "insert" as well as "insert plain text." No change whatsoever. I understood the posts in this thread as me not being the only one having problems. Otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it.

Agree on the issue of the editors. The plain text one doesn't even make line breaks at the end of the input window (that's why I'll do it manually here). The WYSIWYG editor should (that's how I understood it) end quotes itself when the *return* key is hit two times. That also doesn't work. Instead it's erratically adding [ /quote ] tags. Honestly, both editors are plain pain. Edit: Because of those problems I'm mostly writing (if any) offline but there's the next problem: When I copy-paste my text into the input window and use the preview I'll see that each and every break I did to seperate paragraphes (== two times return) is ignored. Wah, and even editing it *steals* my manually made breaks as I figure just now.

. Hi Cognizantastic, . you might have thought I ignored your question -- I didn't. But please bear with me for just lending ScottLeft's answer and add that he says in short what my opinion also is:

I can't speak for the admins of the 17thShard-forums. Nor would I claim to do this unduly. But I can try to tell of my own experiences: I have been moderator on a forum from the very beginning of this. I can't even estimate how much time, blood, sweat and tears the admins there have put in the forums but just the part I saw and participated as member of the staff was amazing. It is about developing, changing for the better, discussing problems, deciding what to do with users who don't follow the rules, seeing to the threads if any ran out of course , mediating between users, trying to help users with on topic and off topic (as in technical) problems, give advice. . There's a lot of time invested aside from what Rubix told: the very purpose of maintaining a well administrated forum that has earned it's renown. . Here, fortunately (at least I hope it's the case), it's less about keeping users at bay than I was used to. But I know also of that issue that few people seem to care about the rules of the forums they are participating in. Or may be "care about" is too strong a term, and I'd better say: Few read those rules if they are not 'forced' to. That is kind of frustrating not only because making the rules also is not done en passant but discussed and wellconsidered. . Also I know from my own activity that 'staff' is not by bad purposes not willing to talk about some topics. As much as I dislike this as a user, I do understand it when I try to put myself in the staff's shoes. (Oh my, I hope the dictionary told me good phrases. ) . It might be mentioned also by me that the staff here, of "The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite" is not employed but doing their job here on their own free time. I know, you (we) all do but it's different to 'just post' (that is not meant to degrade!) or to -- even if freely -- doing duty. . I hope this helps a bit.

. Sorry, just for my curiosity: Have you ever worked as part of the staff on a forum? Please don't feel offended, I really just would want to know.

A lot has happened in this thread since my first post and it seems that I've opened a can of worms. . I'm rather fascinated to read about users themselves feeling kind of 'overwhelmed' with the amount of reputation points they got. Though that shows a bit what I wanted to express. . Much better than I could have done Kurkistan and others described the meaning the reputation points had (and IMHO should have). There was also mentioned that they themselves do appreciate 'deserved' points over such given for funny comments. (That sounds weird, I see it, but I don't come up with a better wording, though others already explained much better what I want to say.) So, you might see, that it's about the ratio not the pure amount of points, that was confusing me and also nagging at me, I admit this. . Kaymyth called it a "clash of subcultures", I'd rather call it a "clash of two generations" (which, I think, is not contradicting Kaymyth, at least that is not my intention). When I came to these forums reputation points were new to me, I've never had such in other forums I participated in though I did and do participate in different forums for around (at least) 13 years now. I was introduced to the use of up- and downvotes as is mentioned in different posts here. They were usually thoughtfully given for good and insightful posts or such that were helpful, backing one other's post if they lacked a source etc. Downvotes were even more rare. Thus I was stunned by the sudden influx of rep points some month ago. . Honestly, prior to this thread I didn't realize what changed the usage. That just occurred when I read the comparison to reddit and how it works there. It might also be the reason why it feels (to me) that sometimes seemingly points are given for the author not the content of their post. . And this is the huge and fundamental difference between how I (and others) see the reputation system while that 'new generation' mostly sees it as a 'thumbs up' not an expression for approval or disapproval (that's put very, very vaguely so please don't fixate on this ). Thus also some feel that offended when they got downvotes. I just see it now. . Do you see what I want to say? Our green and red buttons are not alike the 'like'-button of reddit, facebook and co. Thus the downvotes are inherent part of our reputation system as are the upvotes. . If such a 'like'-button could be included aside of the reputation system, I wouldn't mind at all. . PS: Please don't wonder about the points, it's when I write something offline the forum's software just *steals* my breaks without them.

I didn't say that I "judge" anybody but I got an inkling about the users from the reputation points. That is a huge difference. Also I don't want to express that I am against off topic stuff. It's only about the balance, that is, and this is off.

Honestly? Exactly that is what makes BS and his books -- and the cosmere -- such an interesting hobby. Compared to food, I'd say it would be rather bland if this would not be BS's way to do things.

IMHO the reputation system is out of any balance and I'd be glad to see it deleted without substitution (because -- as far as I remember -- it's not able to restrict it on certain sub-forums. IIRC it was meant for 'praise and admonition' for very good or agreeable or wrong or not agreeable posts in regard to the subject/topics of this forums which are BS's books. When the RP-forums and the General Discussion were flooded the twist of the reputation system went along with this change the emphasizes. Around one year ago, prior to WoR, when I saw a member with a good ratio (reputation points/posts) I could imagine them as being highly involved in BS's cosmere. Now? There is no way to see who might be *good at BS* (so to say) aside from a most intensive study of each thread. I do find that disappointing, though. . So if there would be a possibility to put on two systems (one for pure BS-relevance and one for off-topic) I'd also be glad. Or one system only for BS-relevance. . I know and I stand by it, that I am inconvenient at times, but that's just me.

. In addition: When they first arrived at Urithiru there were not enough infused spheres left. All spheres were used for light and bringing those to Urithiru who came from the warcamps after the call there arrived. And even given those were faster than a big army it surely took a few days (up to five days possibly?) until they were brought to Urithiru through the Oathgate (which needs Stormlight to function, it does). Only then and with Elokhar arrived there could be talk about giving 'left over' infused spheres to anybody (or Kaladin). . . Please don't feel insulted but you might just skip Kaladin's scenes when they are bothering you that much? . . So there were already answers to this I'd like to add that having some *breaks* in their souls is prerequisite for having access to investiture: source (emphasizes mine) . I thought of another WoB but couldn't find it now. On Scadrial it's Snapping, on Roshar it seems (at least for some) the need to have gone through some traumatic experience (as did Kaladin as well as Shallan; what happened to Renarin is unknown as far as I know, but it might be related to his epilepsy).

. Hi manavortex, . Thanks for your answer. It might be already too late for discoveries. . I see, I've got a (bad? ) reputation. So be it. . *wave* Meg

Hi Manavortex, greetings from Germany as well and thank you very much for sharing your experiences and knowledge with us. I've wondered sometimes myself if I'd be 'slightly autistic' or something similar because of my utterly bad abilities in social interaction. I never dared asking a doctor about it, though. Out of curiosity I've done the test the Young Bard linked and got a 45 (though hopefully I did understand all those questions correctly ). Unfortunately there's no area I'm especially good with. I do prefer written communication over talking and sometimes similarities or connections just jump at me when at other times I have to struggle for the easiest things (though I tend to blame MS on those faults). See you! Greetings Meg

@ Maxal: You have a pm. @ Sylveris: In regard to the quote Maxal gave might you tell me give me a chapter where you got the feeling "his arc is not progressing ..." Is this prior or after Amaram's arrival?

No, honestly I thought it enough to put the line and to say that it is "off topic" to ensure that nobody would see that "further side note" related to your post(s). It's a general remark as I thought is clear to the readers.

I'd like to point out that despite there were situations when Kaladin (and others) suffered from other darkeyes there is a common ground for the 'community of darkeyes' that is: the lighteyes are superior to us. Also I'd like to hint at the fact that the Alethi (and the Veden) think themselves "impure" if they don't have the proper black hair. Not the eyecolor is the point if one want to talk about 'races' on Roshar specifically in Alethkar and Veden. Some women even dye their hair black (as far as I remember Ialai, Sadeas' wife, is one of them) to hide their impure bloodlines. As for Kaladin don't see him more biased than not understandable (though I don't agree with him fully) given his experiences: Roshone, Tien's death (= the first fail of Amaram's as Kaladin had to go through), then as far as we can guess now from the books he overcame that trauma with lots of training and getting better in his job. And just when he seems to be more stable again, *Helaran* happens and Amaram's second and much more vile backstabbing (killing Kaladin's crew and sending him to slavery). That event surely had a re-traumatizing impact on Kaladin which was even intensified by month of slavery and beatings and subsequently the time with Bridge Four. Only then, at the end of TWoK/beginning of WoR he had the possibility to start to overcome his traumata and as Zea mays said, he did change, slowly but visible. With relapses, yes, but that is normal, given he has nobody to professionally care about him. As as side note: I personally don't like Shallan (mostly) but I do like especially the scenes where she and Kaladin *smashed* and she clipped his wings. --- A further side note and off topic: That posting doesn't mirror all of my thoughts and it might have a crude tone though that is not intended. Where I want to go: Not everybody who wants to participate here or is participating -- as counts for me -- has the means to write elaborate posts. That is caused (or might be caused) by the lack of time, the lack of ability (for example to concentrate over a longer time), the lack of proper knowledge of the English language or other issues. Honestly, sometimes it seems to me that such people like myself are not taken seriously just by them not being that eloquent or lengthy. I'd wish for more tolerance and probably bring into question some term that might be used wrongly. I apologize for that off topic note but that weights heavily on my mind for some months now.

@ Kaellok: Out of curiosity: How much time (not in *books* but in days/months/years) would you concede Kaladin to heal from the mental wounds he took?

. Thank you for your answer. I should have been more precisely. I'm well aware that those are two different questions as well as that not changing the second answer is not 'wrong'. It just feels inconsequential (incoherent, inconsistent) for me. Anyway, sorry for bothering.

I am confused. These days I re-read some chapters of WoR. In chapter 87 when Kaladin came back to the dais with the Oathgate the new version reads when Rock asks for the Honorblade: The underlined parts are new, thus I emphasized them. So, as was to be expected from Kaladin, he told them the truth that he didn't kill Szeth. But when they came to Urithiru Kaladin answered to Dalinar's question "The assassin?" with "Dead." No tweaking here and hence my confusion: Would Kaladin tell the untruth to Dalinar or was this part missed in the tweaking?

Just throwing a few thoughts into this thread. As for I'm not as eloquent as others it'll be a concise post. I do like Kaladin for all reasons that have already been mentioned. I don't see him as the *boy from the village that turns worldleader*. Funnily that's exact how I feel about Vin, and, though not that strongly, I also feel similar for Shallan. So there were parts when I thought *no, not that again*, those made him just more interesting. What about a character, who is only progressing? Me personally I don't like Szeth (and mostly agree with Maxal here). He had the possibility to keep his oathstone from others and only his "screwed up pseudo-morality" made him refuse that decision. I take into account his cultural background (though it's only hinted at). But he's been around outside of Shinovar for years and this time around should have shown him that him obeying to those orders for killing are not right (simply said). I am curious, though, what exactly the oathstone means in regard to Szeth's blind obedience. Or did I miss an important tidbit? Szeth behaves similar to those people in the story Hoid told Kaladin in TWoK ("Wandersail"), where the people murdered their fellow citizens because of them believing what their emperor expects them to do. Being *picked up* by Nalan isn't a good thing in my estimation. Anyway Nalan goes around killing people (like Ym, who just delivered poisoned wine, though I think that might have been a pretense for just not telling straight on that he's trying to eliminate potential Surgebinders). So the Nalan-Szeth-combination doesn't give me an easy feeling. Though I wonder how Nightblood will be *fed* once Szeth is drawing him, given that non-invested persons (like ourselves) would only live a short time (as BS told at the AMA a few days ago). . So I like Kaladin and all around him as in Syl (!), Bridge Four, Dalinar etc. I do hate him for giving the Shards to Moash, though, as it felt wrong to me instantly.

I just mused if Putnam's experiment (as well as Nozick's which wasn't mentioned in the article I read because the topic was different) might have been an inspiration. I'd say influence is not the same as inspiration.

No offense meant but honestly when I've read the thread title I thought whether it's a joke. Though I got the "general higher education entrance qualification in Europe" I made an apprenticeship and I'm working since I'm 21 years. I'm not speaking a lot of languages, didn't study and have no (academic) title. Even if this thread would not be representative for this forums I'm surprised that there seem to be so little persons beyond "learning age", and apparently nearly anybody here seems to study. It's a luck one does not have to present their curriculum vitae to get permission to participate here.

Meanwhile I've read The Perfect State. Honestly, I'm disappointed for some reasons, that I'm not really able to put into (English) words. Also apparently I'm one of those who are not "happy" that there was "more sex" in this story than in others. It didn't bother me but it also didn't add a positive aspect to the story. I was reminded of "Matrix" and today I've read an article about epistemology and the "brain in a vat" thought experiment of Hilary Putnam.1 I wondered if this experiment was an inspiration for The Perfect State as it was for "Matrix" though I'd prefer Descartes' evil demon hypothesis. *keeps waiting for the Stormlight Archive 3*