Hufdud

I've been going back and forth a lot on some of these. In some ways, the shards seem to fit better when grouped by Change - Ruin, Preservation, Cultivation, Endowment Connect - Dominion, Autonomy, Honour, Mercy Feel - Devotion, Odium, Valour, Ambition Think - Innovation, Virtuosity, Whimsy, [Prudence/Wisdom?] My main problem with this set of four commands is that none of them seem to strongly match what we know about Hoid's dawnshard. There are some other issues with some of my sub-groupings that I included above however that primary issue led me to change the fourth command to better embody what we know about Hoid's. This new set of Dawnshards would then have the commands: Change | Connect | Feel | Grow/Improve/Create Grouping the 16 Shards within these new 4 Commands led me to pursue a slightly different approach than many others I have seen. I have noticed a lot of focus on Shardic pairs and opposites, grouping the shards so that their opposite is on the far side of the wheel within a completely different command group. The two main issues I have with this approach are that 1. not all shards have a true opposite (as noted earlier in this thread), and 2. there is very little evidence to indicate that the Dawnshards themselves are paired (into two pairs of opposing commands). By contrast, in the canonical Allomantic table there are seemingly opposite effects (eg. steel pushing vs iron pulling) that are grouped together because they are differing interpretations of an overarching theme (external, physical powers). Taken together, these facts allowed me to place certain shards under a command that at first glance they would appear to oppose, on the basis that these shards were formed via a rejection of that command. For instance Preservation- rather than being an aspect of connection, growth, or feeling- can easily be considered the absence or rejection of Change. Thus, even though it opposes the original Command, that opposition defines the intent far better than any association with one of the other three. Following that long preamble, here is my best current arrangement with explanations/justifications included: External/Internal and Positive/Negative (relating to the command itself) tags have been added where possible Change Preservation - Ext/Neg - The absence of Change. Does not fit well into any other Command, and is best defined by the Command it directly opposes. Ruin - Ext/Pos - The canonical opposite of Preservation, seeks constant external change of everything and progression towards entropy. Whimsy - Int/Pos - Constant internal change. Unlike Ruin which seeks one constant goal of entropy/destruction/change of everything else, Whimsy's goals are likely to change regularly, possibly promoting external change at times, while supporting preservation at others. Ambition - Int/Neg - A strong, enduring desire for a certain goal. Externally reflects Change and Grow/Improve due to the desire to achieve/become something that they are not currently, however internally are much more constant and unchanging in what that goal is. In that way, Ambition also fits in this quadrant as a loose opposite/pairing to Whimsy. Connect/Bind/Unite Honor - (Int?)Pos - Easiest placement by far. All about the creation and adherence to bonds and oaths. Less about right and wrong and more about just always following the rules, no matter what. Make Connections, make Bonds, never break them. Stay internally consistent with your oaths. Mercy - (Int?)Neg - Opposite of Honor, Mercy is about bending/breaking the rules for the benefit of someone else. Extending Mercy can also help to unify people who may otherwise be opposed. Dominion - Ext/Pos - Unifying a nation/people under one rule. Creating connections that all feed into one pinnacle individual who then has control over everything beneath them. Pro-Collective. Autonomy - Ext/Neg - Opposite of Dominion, all about breaking bonds with other people and especially higher external powers. Wants to promote self sufficiency and individuality. Feel Devotion - Ext/Pos - Intense passion/love to something external. Strong emotion, can feed into itself to continue to grow. Odium - Ext/??? - Semi-opposite of Devotion, very focused on external feelings as well, however these cover a wider range with hatred being the strongest. Despite the emotions themselves being classified as more 'negative', I didn't give Odium the 'Neg' tag as for the most part its still in line with the Feel Command by increasing passions and emotions. The strongest argument for adding the 'Neg' tag is whatever he's doing with our favourite Honorblade wielding ex-bridgeman, however it is unclear whether that is something the Intent encouraged or just a choice made by the Vessel. Valour - Int/Pos - Great courage in the face of danger. We don't know much about Valour, but based on definitions of the word, it is likely about strong internal emotion. Internal courage/bravery despite the external circumstances. Prudence/Wisdom? - Int/Neg - This is the last unnamed Shard of the 16, however we have hints about its Intent from various tidbits over the years. With these in mind, the 16th Shard seems to fit here as a 'loose opposite' of Valour. From Prudence, it can be interpreted as a balance or overriding of emotion to see things more clearly. As well, if this is the Shard that [Just wanted to hide and survive], that also fits its role as an opposite to Valour, as while Valour would stand up and fight in the face of danger, this Shard may instead choose a safer option of running/hiding. Unlike Valour which is strong internal emotion in spite of the external circumstances, Prudence would support emotion and action in light of the external circumstances. Rather than letting emotions govern choice, learning this self control allows one to express the appropriate emotion at the right time. In many ways with this explanation, Prudence/Wisdom fills a similar role in the Feel quadrant to that of Preservation in the Change quadrant, however without necessarily being quite as complete an absence/rejection of the base Command. Grow/Improve/Create (Hoid's Dawnshard, however also the one I had most trouble with as in many ways it seems to overlap with the Change command, and also doesn't contain as clear of pairings or Shards with intents that oppose the original Command) Innovation - (Ext?)/Pos - Improving society, discovering and creating new advancements to improve the world around you. Possibly the "Science Shard" (though hopefully Brandon makes the Shardic interpretation more interesting or "Innovative" than that). Virtuosity - Int/Pos - About achieving self mastery, internal growth in a particular field or skill. Also seems to kinda be the 'Art Shard', thus forming a natural pairing with Innovation's apparent role as the 'Science Shard'. In this way, it also fits the theming of the Dawnshard as creation is often associated with art. Cultivation - (Ext?)/Pos - All about growing and improving things. Helping others to become better and reach their potential. Has taken many gambits on-screen to cultivate certain individuals in preparation for larger roles and responsibilities. Also very much associated with Life, Nature, and Growth which matches the theming of the Dawnshard. Endowment - ??? - The least certain of my placements. Endowment is about giving abilities or gifts to others. However unlike Cultivation, where the process of improving someone else doesn't need to come at the expense of the Cultivator, Endowment seems to require personal sacrifice. To cultivate something you just need to put it in the right conditions/environment, to endow something you actively give it something (presumably that you once possessed yourself). We can see this in the way Breaths world in-universe. Further supporting Endowment's placement within Hoid's Growth Dawnshard are the thematic elements associated with both Edgli herself, and her magic system on Nalthis. Similar to the other Shards in this Quadrant, Endowment has thematic connections to artistry and nature in-universe. Awakening for instance is all about bringing things to life or imbuing in them a semblance of life, while the Returned have the ability to heal and naturally grow and morph their physical appearance to reflect their ideal selves. This fits with Hoid's Dawnshard which promotes life and healing, while being diametrically opposed to violence. Of these placements, the one I am least certain about is Endowment. While it fits very well thematically with the other Shards in the quadrant, there may be a case for swapping it with Ambition. If this were done, I would shift the focus of the fourth Command slightly to more reflect improvement and achieving mastery, with Ambition being the internal pursuit of that mastery (while Virtuosity is the culmination/achievement of that internal pursuit). Endowment would then be placed in the Change quadrant, which fits with that there is change of things being passed or 'endowed' from one person to another. However I am not sure that Endowment fits as well in Change, again largely due to the associated thematic elements. Please, share your thoughts and critiques of this system with me. This has all been brewing in the back of my mind for years until I finally sat down today and spent five hours organizing and writing it all out. As such, I am sure there are many flaws at present, and I already have at least four other configurations with minor adjustments sitting on my computer that each have their own merits but didn't seem to fit quite as well as the one I have outlined here.

I get the feeling it will kind of build upon the fourth ideal. The fourth is him accepting he can't protect everyone. The fifth is him going into more of a leadership role helping people to protect themselves. So stepping further away from him personally protecting everyone and instead teaching others to protect themselves.

Crazy idea I don't know if I've seen posted anywhere yet but what if one of the dawnshards is PROTECT. That would fit as one of the divine commands of a God and as well I think of how Hoid once held a dawnshard and that is what makes him unable to hurt living things anymore... Wouldn't that make sense if it was because he held the dawnshard devoted to protecting all life? Just a crazy little theory here.

My brother, we must not discriminate! Any who wish to replant themselves and take up roots in this holy church are welcome! Firebringers most of all!

While this seems accurate, I think what some people are trying to say is that Kaladin’s interactions with the Stormfather have been unique in the way Kaladin has sought HIM out and then challenged him. Even Dalinar seems to more often than not simply back off from a topic or conversation when he gets the sense that the Stormfather doesn’t want to talk about it. Kaladin did the opposite, pressing him until he had to respond, even if it wasn’t in the way Kal wanted... just my two cents

I pledge my allegiance to the cause once more in this latest branch of the Great Tree. I. AM. A. STICK!

Strong work my brother. The Sapling is crucial to reviving the branch of the Trunk. Edit: Fellow Sticks, it grieves me to report I cannot find mention of the true names of the final four branches of Stickbinders: TrunkSmiths RootWards WillowShapers Conebearers SeedRunners SapWeavers *Autumn Branch *Winter Branch *Spring Branch *Summer Branch

The Oaks are spoken once more. Stickbinders walk among us. I hereby declare the division of the Autumn Branch has been reinstated with myself at the helm! Together with the other 9, we will lead the charge to reclaim the Tranquilline Trunk!

Your wish is granted but you also have the bane of uncontrollable fear of heights. I wish the ability to convince Brandon to kill off one of his main characters.

You asked no boon yet still I will grant you the identity of Stick. This is both a boon and a bane dependant upon your enlightenment. I wish to see the master plan for the Cosmere from Brandon’s mind.

I don’t have the WoB on hand but I remember there being one that it is technically possible for someone to bond two spren at once. What if, rather than Kaladin passing on his bond to Syl, Dalinars bond to the Stormfather gets passed to Kaladin and our favourite flying Bridgeboy becomes the true master of the sky and storms?

My Brethren Sticks, I have encountered new revelation while pondering the tale of Stickbinder Prime. As all are Sticks and a manifestation of the Tree Realms, wouldn’t this mean-pardon my blasphemy-that even the Matchendi are our brothers in Stickdom? Consider it, a match is nothing more than a stick that has been corrupted, growing a carapace skullcap in direct revolt against the teachings of this mighty church. Fellow Sticks, we must band together, not in oppression, but support of our fallen brothers. These Matchendi are lost, they have forgotten what it truly means to be a Stick, and in their confusion and instability they have been corrupted, seeking change, to make all Sticks miserable like unto themselves. The Order of the Stick must return, spreading once again the gospel to our lost and fallen brethren. Join me, and together we will usher in a new age, one that will STICK to the hearts and minds of all who hear it’s precepts.

Kaladin and Syl definitely. But I also really enjoyed the relationship between Shallan and Stick

Alright, to start this off I feel the trapper’s only chance against the mistborn is to avoid notice and employ a wide variety of traps. In almost every scenario where the trapped and mistborn directly interact I see the mistborn easily dispatching him with just a few shot coins. The only way such a direct confrontation could really hurt the mistborn is if this engagement distracts them from some other danger of Patji (deathants eg.) and then either both die or the island kills the mistborn before they can finish off the trapper. This leads to the main contender in this scenario: Patji itself. I really do not see any surefire way for the mistborn to come out on top. His lack of knowledge regarding the dangers of the local fauna and flora alone will probably be enough to ensure he doesn’t make it the full 24 hours. This is what I see as the biggest threat. Even if they survive the many predators and the trapper himself, 24 hours on an island designed to kill everyone who sets foot upon its shores is too long for any ignorant person to survive. Even with tin to enhance the senses and warn of insects, many of the plants are poisonous as well. Of course, then there are the predators. This is where the mistborns allomantic abilities would become the most useful. Their best bet would to be to use their copper sparingly, stretching out its usage by only burning it when predators approach and then using iron/steel and coins to escape to a different location. Unfortunately even this approach will run out before the 24 hours are up and they will have to resort to fighting. Pewter, plus the coins at their belt, could likely kill these beasts if they come in small enough numbers, but then we run into the problem of these pained and dying creatures attracting a larger horde that would overwhelm even a prepared mistborn. This is where we might see some value in emotional allomancy: by suppressing the dying beasts emotions of pain and vulnerability and perhaps rioting emotions of strength it is possible the mistborn could stall or even stop the formation of such a horde. Of course this is all assuming their steel and iron have lasted all this time. In conclusion, I think that this becomes a war of attrition of sorts between the island and the mistborn, the more metals the mistborn runs out of, the more perils they have to face. With a goal of 24 hours I really see no way the mistborn could hold out and survive. Next Situation: Infiltration. The arena will be an isolated castle in Arelon (elantrians have decent access to the dor without the overwhelming boost of being within the city itself) The objective is a cylindrical gem filled with void light (to make it distinguishable to both teams) Team one, remaining within the castle grounds, will be given 30 minutes of preparation within the caste before having to protect the gem for 24 hours from team 2. Team 2 wins if they can escape the premises with the gem within the 24 hours. Either team also wins if they kill all their opponents before the time runs out. Both teams also have a knowledge of the layout and design of the castle before the match begins. Team 1 (defenders): Raoden Awakener barely of the 4th heightening (as soon as they awaken anything they will be back to the third heightening and will lose their perfect life sense) with combat training and an invested sword (not awakened like nightblood but invested enough to stop a shard blade and resist allomantic pushes and pulls) Forger of med skill with a soulstamp that provides increased combat training (knows some history of the castle itself) Five Koloss guards with obsidian swords Team 2 (Attackers): Kelsier (from Final Empire) with his typical number of vials of the 10 basic metals (except atium, of which he has only 5 seconds worth) and two obsidian daggers Windrunner of the fourth ideal (blade and plate) filled with storm light and carrying a few infused emeralds (can also retreat to replenish storm light at a location a few miles away)

Isn’t that simply because the heralds haven’t gone back to Braize themselves to renew the oathpact? I thought that was what happened in all the desolation’s until the heralds were ready to return.

I agree with this Shardplate idea. Especially since in addition Shardplate and shardblades are supposed to be made of the same metal, which is the physical manifestation of spren. I also like this theory as it could fit with the fact that Radiants do not hear the screaming of dead spren when touching plate like they do with dead blades. I think this could either be a case of the lesser spren that make up plate not having sufficient sentience (as opposed to the higher spren that are bonded and form the blades) in the first place to react in such a way to being trapped in the physical realm or in that the Nahel bond is only made directly with the original higher spren and thus it’s breaking does not have as much of an effect on those spren that, while trapped/killed, were not directly linked to the offending radiant