Hsien99

This is off topic I apologize, Isn’t the spiritual realm where all investiture originates from in the cosmere, and once someone uses it the power simply goes back to the realm to be used again? The shards like Honor, Harmony, Cultivation, Odium etc they get their power from the spiritual realm also or are they just connected to it? A shard like honor can hold several thousands, millions, magnitudes more than someone like Kaladin, but all that power is filtered through and interpreted by what each shard represents? If you had Ruin could he not use his power to create but his very nature is tied to his power he just couldn’t do even if he wanted to even with his power and his knowledge, or if he did it would it diminish him or kill him? The basic foundation of every power in the cosmere originally came from Adonalsium, now that power is spread over 16 shards each with a agenda that is also based around an ideal/emotion that in turn gives out investiture to the inhabitants on their planet they think are worthy. The power they give is based around what they represent and the people they choose best embodies different aspects of this believe. Some powers and investiture can cross worlds others can’t either by being internal like breath others like stormlight can’t because it isn’t on other planets, but what if a radiant could use mist as a substitution for stormlight etc. I heard though really rare that some Returned are not of Nalthis or at least it would be possible again though rare to have a Returned not be of the planet. Calderis you said Bronze Allomancers could learn to detect the Rythms and I agree it would be very rare but throughout the cosmere since everything is connected on so many parts there is room for “Interworld Investiture Cohension.” What do you think would happen if a radiant infused some bronze with stormlight and the allomancer burned it as an example?

Well what about Stormlight doesn’t it connect to the spiritual realm?

Shallan and others might be able to use it to see in darkness like infrared vision. I just doubt one Radiant with illumination would be strong enough to produce gamma radiation.

They use the rhythms or songs as a empathic auditory communication system. They can’t use it to talk like we do, but to express emotions with each other each song represents another emotion. I don’t see why Shallan wouldn’t be able to mimic it if humans can hear the rhythms. There is the possibility that if their rhythms are spiritual or interact with that plane somehow then they would know Shallan as a fraud but so far it hasn’t been proven either way it’s all hypothetical .

Yeah that’s what I was referring to, it seemed to imply some people tried and failed an then several years later some people had learned from there mistake and suceeded. Investiture cannot be destroyed only changed like energy you can’t destroy it only changes heat and kinetic energy etc.

Am guessing around 16,000-20,000 thousand. If you factor in the last desolation happened 4,500 years ago which was the last and therefore 9 desolation’s happened before. Some happened within ten years of each other but others happened where civilization crumbled and people forgot how to make iron and steel, read and write plus Odium came apparently quite a bit after Honor and Cultivation. Then you factor in making the spren an how diversified they are plus humans weren’t native to Roshar and we know they came before the desolations even started at least a thousand or two before the first one started.

I read that before Adonalsium was shattered by the sixteen there was a previous attempt to do so years before which ended in failure, so was Hoid maybe one of the ones who tried to shatter him and failed but managed to steal a little tiny bit of his power giving him immortality.

Am a little confused about where one begins and the other ends, so are Odium and Honor and by extension the others just using the bodies of these mortals to hitch a ride kinda like a Gabriel Byrnes as the devil did in the End of Days with Arnold Schwarzenegger? Is the relationship more symbiotic where they influence each other and if so where does Rayse begin and Odium ends etc, or does bonding a shard like that change their thought patterns automatically making them exactly like the shards they bond so there isn’t real difference between the two?

Hoid predates Adonalsium being split though which does anyone know when that took place 250,000-100,000-50,000-20,000 years ago? If so what is the secret to his immortality might he be one of the people that tried and failed to split Adonalsium up before the other sixteen succeeded, but managed to get just enough investiture to make him immortal with a few perks like world hopping etc.

Is Hoid really the one true god supreme etc and Adonalsium is more like his proxy on this plane of existence? Hoid would be god and Adonalsium would be more like Jesus something similar? It reminds me of DC comics where you have Hoid who is like the Presence and Adonalsium in more like the source.

My man thanks for the info dump

Dawn usually almost always applies precursor, genesis, and alpha the beginning, and we know what shards are for the most part. I would think that either they are power of pure creation left by Adonalsium himself a fraction of a fraction, but since they are perfect wouldn’t unduly influence the possessor. The shards themselves would have no sentience so if Jasnah happened to get hold of one she herself would become Logic, so it wouldn’t be like Tanavast acquired honor but they have their own personalities or Odium and Rayse. Kaladin would become possibly Compassion etc. They would be weaker separately than Odium but with resonance become stronger enough to possibly defeat him. Adonalsium himself is either formed out of creation or he is the source of creation if it’s the former then maybe the dawnshards are what’s left over after Adonalsium is formed.

I don’t know about about destroying their crystals maybe it’s possible but not IMO likely, but an alternative would be since the listeners and singers use sound to help communicate with each other, so I see no reason why after studying them Shallan or other light weavers couldn’t mimic those songs on the battle field causing panic disorder chaos etc.

You my friend have some very interesting ideas, but i seriously doubt they could pull all that off maybe x-ray and microwave radiation. Shallan or any radiant with illumination would be dependent on how much stormlight they have available and how much stormlight the gem could hold. You also have to take into account spehere of influence. A microwave uses microwave radiation of course so she might be able to produce microwave or gamma radiation but over a very small area not really usable in large conflicts. IMO Gamma radiation is so powerful though I don’t see anyone ever achieving this. You might have a team of Radiants working together during a high storm and maybe focusing all their power on a fabrial designed to collect that energy an redirect it, but like you said also it might be so powerful they decide not to use it though they could. I see light weavers though more strategic laying traps and ambushes creating lies false hope like the enemy thinking they have reinforcements coming up from behind but in reality it the enemy in disguise.

If NightBlood kills on the physical realm, cognitive realm, and spiritual realm could it actually kill Odium, or would he just be too strong as he a higher plane of existence so he wouldn’t have to worry about it.

If Radiants or Returned world hopped to different would they still have all their abilities? I would say the Returned would since their breath is basically internal but not Radiants unless you could someone substitute one type of investiture for another. Am not an expert by any means but would it be possible let say a radiant died on Roshar to transport them to Nalthis to possibly become a Returned or let say if Kaladin died could Vasher give him his divine breath. I just have a little theory that now that BS has started introducing other characters and artifacts from the cosmere we might see in book 4 or 5 some possible world hopping maybe.

I think we are coming to similar conclusions but our methodology is different we both say no normal Radiant or Squire could do what Rock could have done. I think we can both agree because of healing it drastically increases a persons stamina able to fight longer in battle. The part we differ on is the physical amplification of stormlight you seem to postulate that it increases strength and speed etc probably by about 20% maybe 30% a noticeable but not significant amount. I tend to think it makes them more like silver or bronze Olympic athletes very much still in the realm of humans but similar to Tarzan, Conan, Batman etc. Obviously you would use more than one arm to draw a bow back, your shoulder/back muscles are extremely important to draw the bow string back, and you have to use the other hand to help stabilize/hold/aim it while you fire. I may have become a little carried away earlier, but I didn’t think I needed to explicate the proper way of how to use a bow. I was trying to say only Rock was strong enough to pull that bow no one else becuase he had greater strength than anyone else outside of Shardplate.

Maybe Stormlight makes the person stronger or faster in accordance with how powerful they perceive themselves being just a thought. A normal person can pick up 50% of their body weight a body builder can pick up around at max that I’ve seen is 2.95 times their body weight. Shardplate increases their strength so they can lift/manipulate 7-10 times their body weight like Adolin who weighs around 180-200 pounds would at about average have strength equaling 1,260-1800 pounds. Now we know Rock is huge Kaladin in described as being pretty tall around 6.2 and he is several inches shorter than Rock so about 6.5. He is also very muscular built almost like a blacksmith and from carrying the bridge so if we weighed Rock he could most definitely be around 300 pounds so with stormlight he be right around 900 pounds in terms of strength. It only takes one arm to draw the bow string so Adolin at the 1260 would excert at most 630 pounds of force and Rock would be around 450 pounds. Kaladin could only excert 285 pounds at maximum. The bows were just meant to be used by someone with shardplate no normal man could ever hope to excert that much force and be usable in battle. A normal man can only excert at most around 100-160 pull on a bow some exceptional people can do 200 that’s it, so if they doubled that and made it 400 pound draw strength Kaladin still couldn’t do it with stormlight. It would be 3.10 times more powerful than the strongest regular bow.

There fight could have more to do with Kaladin being a really good soldier with battle instincts and Heleran even with Shardplate and Shardblade being relatively inexperienced with fighting and using Shard artifacts. It could also be contributed to Kaladin not knowing what he was doing absorbing stormlight and not knowing how powerful he was at the time. I hadn’t considered the actual size of the plate making people seem like giants a therefore being able to outpace regular men easliy. Maybe stormlight makes them like Captain America it takes their strength, speed, stamina, reflexes to the peak so not superhuman but still superior to anyone else. No one or very few people can pick up 3 times their body weight over their heads so Kaladin if we say he weighs 190 pounds can pick up and hold at the absolute most 570 pounds. Kaladin who I would postulate as being 6.2-6.3 has a stride of about 2.15-2.30 feet per second. If we say a radiant with stormlight can either bring this stride to every half second or alternatively maintain their peak speed longer they would still end up being 40-60% faster maybe a little more like twice but not 3 times faster. So Kaladin or Shallan with ample stormlight would be able to lift around 3 times their body weight and be 40-80% faster on average than they were before. This makes them exceptional athletes being able to come in second place in several Olympic Games but not really superhuman as my previous hypothesis seemed to indicate. If Kaladin did have shardplate he would be 2-3 times stronger than Adolin with it and 40-60% faster, unless it’s not dependent on the wearer and it just increases everyone by a baseline amount so Shallan with it would be just as strong as Adolin.

Yeah but he needed the necessary speed and stamina reflexes to keep up with a shardbearer and if shardplate gives you times 10 to your physical attributes then Kaladin had to have at least 5 to 10 times increased physical abilities. I do like the idea or avenue of adrenaline level strength but that is only a factor in dangerous situations not everyday. I can see a combination where Stormlight increases your physical attributes by 3-4 times regularly and when in battle adrenaline kicks in making them 15-20 times stronger on average.

That still doesn’t explain away the fact Dalinar lifted a massive stone archway and set it up right again. It had to have weighted at least 800 pounds to 1 ton. Kaladin also manages to kill Shallan brother with Shardplate a feat truly thought imposssible which I find hard to believe if their physical stats weren’t close to each.

I find the stormlight doesn’t have a greater effect on strength hard to believe unless stormlight has a different effects per order of Knight Radiants or BS is back peddling some what on their power. Your second comment about Shardplate is exactly what I said earlier, the shardplate that people like Adolin uses has to be infused with gem stones though to help mimic the strength a radiant had so they can wear it without being crushed, but shardplate doesn’t further increase a Knight Radiants strength beyond what Adolins armor would IMO. At one point in I think Words of Radiance Kaladin says he felt like he could have lifted the entire bridge four bridge by himself and Rock also says this in Oathbringer. It takes 6-10 men to lift it up and move with it. Dalinar who is in his late 50’s early 60’s managed to lift a stone tablet/doorframe which weighed at least 500 pounds and at most 2.5 tons that is 2.5 times his body weight much stronger but not anywhere near superhuman strength they seem to usually have. The 2.5 tons is a little too much though they would be about 25 times stronger than a normal man so a balanced amount again would be between 8-12 times their body weight. The quote on is on 465-466 it has to do with speed and stamina. Stormlight gave them enhanced speed Drehy and Skar set out together running a over a mile to the oathgate, but Skar at this point still didn’t know how to use stormlight. Drehy managed to run a (little) over a mile in under six minutes. It took Skar right at ten minutes and he was physical exhausted while Drehy wasn’t even breathing heavy. This would infer that stormlight increases their physical attributes by 3-4 times. Now I believed a some what logical assumption that since they are only squires under Kaladin that Kaladin would get a larger benefit than they would from stormlight. I guess this doesn’t have to be absolutely true, but again I assumed as a Radiant said more oaths he became more powerful. They would be able to hold more stormlight and be more efficient with it using less but still gaining the same or greater results than before. If Kaladin squires are three to four times stronger again I would think that would make him somewhere around 6-12 times stronger/faster. Maybe the reason he doesn’t see much benefit is becuase windrunner abilities lashings etc cost more stormlight so he looses it at a faster rate than others and can’t reap the full benefits of maximizing his strength.

Thank you for your post. Yeah wasn’t trying to “internet yelling” people just trying to get my point across so thank you for the suggestion.

That’s what i was thinking having kids before they became Radiants. I was thinking maybe absorbing stormlight like they do makes them unable to children. I think having a family and kids would conflict with a lot of the oaths they take. Kaladin would focus mainly or solely on protecting his wife and kids and in turn let everyone else perish. A sky breaker who puts law before everything well what would happen if their son or daughter, husband or wife committed a crime they would be oath bound to prosecute or kill them. They might be able to have kids but it might be taboo like Jedi having kids. I will be a little disappointed if BS doesn’t at least touched on some of these. Seems like a conflict of interest maybe they could have families but both husband and wife couldn’t be Radiants etc.

Kaladin in book one defeat Shallan brother in Shardplate. The dormant ones use gems powered with stormlight to mimic the strength the radiant must have had to wear such armor. Shardplate increases a wearers strength by 12-20 times but a full radiant is already that strong with stormlight which is why the can wear the armor in the first place. Bridge four did a physical comparison and a squire is 4 times stronger than a regular man infused with stormlight, so I see no reason Kaladin pretty much well on his way to become a full radiant with stormlight wouldn’t be around 12+ times stronger than a regular man. I think a radiant with full Shardplate if it increased their strength again IMO would be too OP if Kaladin could bench press/lift 230-240 then fully powered would be around 16 tons 12 times 230 for stormlight and 12 times again for Shardplate it’s too much. On the other hand if he just has the strength of 12-20 with no other increase it’s much more consistent with what we have seen out Shardplate so far 1.4-2.4 tons. As I’ve said people like Adolin have to use gem stones attached to the armor to feed it to mimic a Radiants strength so they can wear it. A Shardplate heals by absorbing stormlight so a radiant with one on will instantly start healing their armor it might be lighter than dormant Shardplate etc. There are other benefits than just increasing strength.