En-priestess

For any of those Legend of Korra fans out there, please tell me I’m not the only one who can’t stop picturing Marasi as Asami Sato!? Edit: now I really want a Wax and Wayne anime.

If we find out that Gavilar isn’t fully dead (which I think we’ve found a lot of evidence to suggest that CS Gavilar is very possible, even likely) then what other purpose would there be for bringing him back? I think it would be really lame to find out Gavilar is a CS out there somewhere and there not being an important reason for that... On the other hand, I think the fact that each book begins with us learning more and more about this mysterious Gavilar and the way he is connected to so many of the characters we follow - Dalinar, Navani, Jasnah - and the way he is so interconnected with so many of the plots that have been unfolding - Sons of Honor, Ghostbloods, Unmade stuff, anti-voidlight discovery, Heralds, etc etc... And the fact that book five’s prologue is going to be from Gavilar’s perspective provides the perfect opportunity to reveal his sticking around... And then there’s the fact that Dalinar has decided to be his own champion - I just don’t see any other character being as impactful in the role of Odium’s champion than Gavilar. Like the only other character that I think would have had an interesting dynamic against Dalinar in a battle of champions would have been Taravangian, but then he’s so old and not a warrior, and he’s Odium now and it doesn’t seem that shards can be their own champions. But I can just imagine how much a reveal like this would be crippling to Dalinar - Taravangian showing up and revealing himself as Odium (oh the shock and confusion, already now Dalinar is on the back foot) and then BOOM, Gavilar shows up!?! How will he react?! How does he fight his own brother whom all this time he’s carried so much guilt for failing on that night of the assassination... Any of the other choices opposing Dalinar that I’ve seen just don’t seem that interesting. Gavinor as child champion, I just think that would be weird and I don’t see him turning against his own family to side with Odium just out of the blue. I think his revenge plot against Moash will be a back five plot line. Then there’s El. Like yeah, he’s interesting for sure, but I just don’t feel like he’s been set up to be Odium’s champion. We’ve been gearing up to this battle of champions since book one and we’ve only just barely heard about this El guy, I just don’t see him as champion being anywhere near as epic and emotional as Gavilar as champion would be. Then there’s Szeth, like it is the Skybreaker book and we’ll be getting his flashbacks, and he’s got this weird relationship with Taravangian but again I just don’t see it. The whole Taravangian manipulation thing I feel we’ve been there done that, and I just don’t see him as an epic challenge to Dalinar... This is my opinion, but I’m sure there are going to be some crazy twists in this next book, and whatever they are Brandon is going to make it so freaking awesome!!

This is so cool! I hope this is true and that we get to see some El scholarship in the next book! Either way, this is definitely my head canon now

This is very rational and could definitely be what’s actually going on! I guess I do wonder though what army Odium was hoping for if the Desolations wiped out like 9 out of 10 people each time. If it’s the living he wants in his army then the Desolations are really bad for that. But if it was the best of the dead, then that’s a different story and the Desolations are GREAT recruitment grounds. I don’t think it was part of Odium’s plan for humanity to recover this much since the Last Desolation, rather the perseverance of Taln.

YES. This is what I was trying to remember! Thank you! It’s that last bit especially that made me think that Odium has been keeping souls from passing into the beyond to use in his army. Perhaps those who show the most passion? Maybe if this is happening, he doesn’t have much control over it and that’s why people like Evi are part of those screams - part of that army in training if we go with this theory - because they showed immense passion before their death (in Evi’s case, to risk her own life to prevent war and killing). A bit of a crack theory I do admit, but I just feel like there is a link between this war Odium is talking about and the belief that the most “passionate” soldiers will continue to fight in the Tranquiline Halls after death.

Yeah I totally get that. You’re probably right. I guess I was thinking of it differently. In the ketek we know was written by El, I think you could also place the weight in the middle with “a knowledge” if we think of weighting like that (but I could be totally wrong so tell me what you think). I was thinking perhaps weighting could instead mean the concept that is being conveyed, which comes from the part of the ketek that makes the most complete sense, and is then built as a ketek around it. In the case of the Death Rattle ketek I thought perhaps the concept is the silence above the storm. Kinda like the ending of El’s ketek is what makes the most complete sense in my opinion, “Knowing a Home of Songs, called our burden.”

Just some extra WOBs that I think are relevant to this thread. From 2018: Too late for what indeed!? From 2016: So this is obviously pre-Oathbringer, but it means that Gavilar had been forming a bond with the Stormfather for quite a while. Some evidence, as well as another really long WOB on the Coppermind, that Gavilar did have a proto bond with the Stormfather meaning that he would at least be invested enough to stick around after his death as we saw with Eshonai (and I’m guessing he was more invested than Eshonai was, and more prepared...) From 2014: Okay so this one makes me think that he was in with Axindweth’s group too (which would be a connection to Odium), or at least some other secret society as well as the Sons of Honor. From 2014: So Hoid believes that Gavilar was aware of many important Cosmere things, including Adonalsium. From 2014: So we know that Gavilar confided in Taravangian on the night of his assassination. And I’m guessing that whatever information they shared is what pushed Taravangian to seek the Old Magic. Now that T is Odium, I think he would definitely feel an affinity towards Gavilar, a shared understanding and project perhaps. If Gavilar is a cognitive shadow somewhere (which I think the evidence suggests), this relationship between T and G I think makes the possibility of G as champion even greater.

The drawers don’t belong to anyone, the messages are specifically being left as memories since everyone is leaving the tower. So no one is really expected to be reading them except in the future. Even so, the person leaving that message took precautions to use the smallest gem, something that they hoped would go unnoticed by those recording the other messages in that draw. To me it seems obvious that they wanted to hide their recording from their fellow Truthwatchers, but felt it important enough for the future to record it in a little gem to be placed discreetly with the others (probably at the last minute when they believed the others were done with the draw and were leaving the tower). I think they chose that same draw to leave their message because it was relevant to the situation being recorded in those other emeralds - aka in reference to the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram.

I don’t know what you mean? The two quotes come from different emeralds, meaning they are likely recorded by different people. The one that mentions Naze-daughter-Kuzodo warning of unintended side effects is from the fifth emerald. And the one that “foresaw this” is from a separate, particularly small emerald. I agree with OP, I think it makes total sense that this small emerald could be Naze-daughter-Kuzodo! I hope we get to learn more about her one day!

So I haven’t done a reread of RoW yet and I need some help figuring out exactly what we found out about Odium’s plans for the Cosmere war he mentions. Am I remembering correctly that Odium views Roshar as a training ground for the troops he will use in his war in the Cosmere? The Alethi mythology of the afterlife holds that those who are worthy are chosen to fight alongside the Heralds to reclaim the Tranquiline Halls, right? Does that mean that the battle to reclaim the Tranquiline Halls is actually this Cosmere war? And does this mythology therefore stem from Odium’s influence? Are those who are worthy being selected by Odium to remain as soldiers in this war? Or is this a future plan of Odium’s (not yet in motion)? If this is what is happening, and is already in motion, does this mean that Odium has been stopping those he considers worthy from passing into the beyond when they die? If so, where are all these souls? Would this have anything to do with the screams people like Szeth and Dalinar hear? If anyone remembers more clearly, I’d love to know what info there is about the Cosmere war Odium speaks of in RoW, and if this is connected in the book to the mythology of the Tranquiline Halls.

I’m agreeing that the Topaz/First Gem that Hoid had was a Dawnshard... I don’t really know what you mean. I’m not saying “ah yes this is the Dawnshard with the Command of ‘Gemheart.’” That doesn’t make any sense lol. Just that the Gem held a Dawnshard. As for the Adonalsium gemheart bit, like I said, it was just a random thought. Why would Adonalsium have a gemheart? I don’t know. But why not? I was thinking along the lines that Roshar was created by Adonalsium, and the Singers and living creatures there have gemhearts, so maybe the inspiration for this came from Adonalsium’s own? Also the fact that it’s called the First Gem, and Adonalsium being the creator of the Cosmere, it made sense in my fleeting thought process that it would be cool for the first gem to be the gemheart of the first being.

I’m theorising that the Death Rattle ketek will be a future El ketek, like the one he wrote at the end of RoW...

Perhaps spren travelled to Akinah in the past when they were willing to manifest as soulcasters, and the Change Dawnshard was used to make this transformation happen? That would make sense to me, in the way that it’s not just a simple process where a spren could go poof and become a soulcaster on a whim. Also would explain why there was a cache of soulcasters there. And generally the fact that the Dawnshard is CHANGE and what the spren are doing is changing from one form to another, and their purpose as a soulcaster is to change things. (Perhaps they are imbued with a bit of that Change Command and that’s why they have this function)? EDIT I’m guessing the spren could also return to Akinah (or have someone take the soulcaster there) when they wanted to be changed back into their spren form by the Change Dawnshard. But since the Dawnshard was hidden away, this hasn’t been possible and the spren have been trapped as soulcasters since.

Random thought, but could the First Gem be Adonalsium’s gemheart? I agree that whatever it is, it definitely would seem to have been a Dawnshard.

Thanks for summarising it all so well and for backing me up on this! I’m so damn convinced!! Gosh this book 5 prologue is going to be EPIC.

Completely agree - it’s such an amazing story!! P.s. I love your username! Bluth’s death hit me so surprisingly hard and I’ve never forgotten him :’(

So there’s a Death Rattle in the form of a ketek from the Way of Kings that’s meaning is still unknown: But after reading El’s ketek at the end of RoW, I think this Death Rattle could be a ketek that will be written by El, perhaps about the battle of champions/its aftermath... The word “silence” is important in the ketek and El was previously Vyre “he who quiets”. See El’s ketek here: I think the Death Rattle fits the unique style we see in El’s ketek, with the emphasis being placed on the final line “illuminate the silence above”, but I’m not a literature expert so let me know if you would agree! This is what is said of El’s ketek from Row: So if this is a future El ketek, what does it mean? What could it perhaps tell us about the upcoming battle of champions?

Okay. So Brandon has been totally trolling us with these previous Kelsier WOBs, first in 2013: When we then see in Secret History that these two indeed DO NOT get along, lol! And then again in 2015: Which now, holy Halls, is a mind blowing WOB... Ahem, Thaidakar!!! So then I got thinking, these have all been such nonchalant little throwaway lines by Brandon that, at the time, we just find a bit funny... But then turn out to be completely SPOT ON! So I think this 2017 WOB will turn out to be just the same and end up being an actual future scene between Kelsier and Honor (who my best guess would be Dalinar in the future): So Dalinar ascends to Honor. Kelsier finds a way to get off world. He heads to his fav tax free investiture haven planet. Dalinar tells him to go away, and oh btw, that he looks kinda dumb in his edgy, floating Seon head cloak. Kelsier punches Dalinar. Kelsier enjoys punching Dalinar. Kelsier cackles maniacally and says that was fun. Dalinar opens a perpendicularity and kicks Kelsier into the bead ocean. Closes perpendicularity. The Cosmere sighs in relief. ACTUAL FUTURE COSMERE SCENE, change my mind. (p.s. kinda a theory, definitely a joke)

Does anyone remember the quote where she goes on about being a fragment of divinity “and we have standards about that” ... or something along those lines? Really need to get those ebooks so I can search for these things!

So my sis is embroidering something for my birthday and asked for some suggestions. I really love Syl and was thinking a little Sylphrena and a favourite quote! Can you help me out with any favourite Syl quotes? Funny, adorable, inspiring, any ideas would be super appreciated!! (Separate post in the Rhythm of War character forum for RoW quotes)

So my sis is embroidering something for my birthday and asked me what I’d want. I really love Syl and was thinking of a little Syl and a favourite quote. Do you have any fav Syl quotes?

I think I like that even better, because if Adonalsium is reforged, I think the point would be that They were transformed in the process and that the shattering and reforging was necessary for the Cosmere to grow - and yeah I’m definitely thinking along the lines of the Iriali One religion like you pointed out earlier Hmm yeah I like that, to me it is covering pretty much the same fundamental concepts I have in mind: Endure as a kind of parallel to Conserve/Remain, Aspire as similar to Propel, and Connect as Reforge/Unite. Gosh I just want to know more about Dawnshards!! Ooops thanks, I haven’t posted here that much so I’m not sure how it all works

I just posted a new theory of potential Dawnshards here so feel free to let me know what you think! I have: CHANGE - Cultivation, Whimsy, Ruin and Endowment CONSERVE/REMAIN - Preservation, Autonomy, Dominion and ? PROPEL - Valour, Invention, Ambition and Odium REFORGE/UNITE - Honour, Devotion, Mercy and ?

Has that been confirmed? I didn’t think we knew whether Rysn would now be immortal. I still don’t think this covers the whole creation of the Cosmere. Like all energy and matter? It could be true and I did like the theory of the Dawnshards being along the lines of Change, Think, Feel, Bind. But I also think that it could get to a more fundamental level. Like I said, Mercy and Endowment were both ones I wasn’t sure about. I put Endowment in change as an example of constructive change - adding something to something else - as opposed to Ruin’s destructive change. Cultivation I thought of more as organising change as opposed to Whimsy as random change. Dominion I think fits in the Conserve/Remain section because to me it’s about controlling more than conquering. We see on Sel that they first need to conquer to control but that doesn’t have to be the case and isn’t part of the definition of Dominion. As for Mercy, that’s the one I’m least sure about but I chose to put it in Reforge/Unite because mercy has the aspect of forgiveness which I think is important for reunification. There’s nothing to say there aren’t more than two Dawnshards on Roshar, we literally have no idea. And if there’s already two, maybe there were all brought to the Rosharan system for a reason, I don’t know. I don’t think change = shattering. You could be right about a Bondsmith shattering the plains but we don’t know that and I feel that since Adonalsium was shattered using the Dawnshards, and the Shattered Plains were shattered also and most likely due to Dawnshards, then it would be the same combination of Dawnshards causing this shattering effect. And we know all four Dawnshards were used to shatter Adonalsium. I tried to explain how this would occur using the combination of Dawnshards I’ve theorised. Like I said, I’m no physicist or chemist but I read this in a work published by Gilbert N Lewis who was nominated for the Nobel Prize for Chemistry 41 times. But I guess his terminology or concepts could be outdated? Do you know of any similar concept based in physics that describes some kind of process of energy and matter returning to a state of equilibrium or something? @mathiau

Okay so here’s my Dawnshard theory which I’ve spent way too much time trying piece together. By the way I hope it’s okay to make a new post as I have seen a couple going around but with different interpretations than my own... I’ve had a lot of different ideas but this is the first one that I’ve come up with that has all four that would work together with the Shards that we know. I’ve tried to work this out based on a few key bits of information: Hoid held a Dawnshard which is the reason he cannot physically harm others or even eat meat. (Perhaps also the reason he is immortal). The Dawnshards were used to shatter Adonalsium, and were used in the destruction of Ashyn. I can’t remember if this is confirmed or only a theory, but they perhaps also caused the shattering of the Shattered Plains. So shattering is a recurring thing... The Dawnshards are the Commands used by Adonalsium to create all things - therefore I feel they need to apply to energy and matter, as well as to life. So far many theories are more applicable to life whereas Change is something much more fundamental which can be applied to energy (eg. change from light to heat, kinetic to gravitational, etc), matter (eg. from one form to another, from something to nothing, etc) and life (people change, ideas change, singers change form, etc). CHANGE Cultivation Whimsy Ruin Endowment Based on the fundamental law of conservation that energy is neither created nor destroyed, only transformed. This is the case for investiture in the Cosmere too. (From what I understand, Atium was not destroyed because it will eventually re-emerge - which also fits with the final Dawnshard I’ve theorised. Light and anti light seem to function like matter and anti matter in that the two can destroy one another but leave behind energy - eg. an explosion - another example of change, and why Ruin fits so perfectly here). I think these Shards would fit if we think of change as being cultivated or random, destructive or constructive. CONSERVE/ REMAIN Preservation Dominion Autonomy ? *Not to be confused with the Dawnshard of jam making... This one is linked to the above law of conservation of energy (and mass), and that if a system is isolated it will remain at rest - it can only be set in motion by an external force. This would be the Hoid Dawnshard which prevents him from physically harming others or himself, and is likely the key to his immortality. The definition of conserve is to “protect from harm or destruction”, and the definition of remain is to “continue to exist, especially after other similar people or things have ceased to do so”. PROPEL (Shattered plains) Valour Odium Ambition Invention This is based on the fundamental forces of momentum and velocity - “the mechanical impulse experienced during the absorption or emission of light”. I believe this Dawnshard is a likely candidate for the destruction of Ashyn if it could be used to propel the surges. I can also see how this Dawnshard in combination with the other Dawnshards would cause the effect of “shattering” - which we see in both the case of Adonalsium and the Shattered Plains. For example, the combination of Propel and Change would break something apart, while the effect of Conserve/Remain would try to prevent this so that the pieces cannot be split apart too far or into to many pieces... The role of the Reforge/Unite Dawnshard is responsible for the pattern that we are able to see (eg. the Shattered Plains have a symmetrical pattern) that enables us to piece something back together. REFORGE/ UNITE Devotion Honour Mercy This final one is based on an article I read called The Fundamental Laws of Matter and Energy by Gilbert N. Lewis, which states that if a body suffers a mere loss of energy through radiation, and if then the same amount of energy is returned to it by thermal conduction, or friction, or in any other such way, the system will return to its original state. I feel like this could foreshadow the piecing back together of the Shards of Adonalsium, which we’ve already seen beginning to happen with Harmony. I also feel that the combination of the Change Dawnshard and this Reforge/Unite Dawnshard could help explain the line from the Dawnshard novella where Ryan feels something emanating from the mural... Adonalsium, according to Their own Commands, had to change at some point, was resigned to this, understood this, and was confident that They would be reforged again, anew? That the Cosmere as a whole had to experience change and be propelled in ways that Adonalsium was in some ways preventing? I’m not 100% sure on the names I’ve come up with, nor am I 100% sure about some of the proposed Shards in each (in particular Mercy, and possibly Endowment). Also I am by no means a physicist or science expert so I don’t fully understand the fundamental principles of energy and matter but I did do some research and I feel like this could be on the right track... Also I feel like there’s probably just way too much that we still don’t know to understand Dawnshards so this is probably completely wrong, but let me know what you think