Fifth Scholar

Darn, I was hoping I could make Maill use his Storm powers to clear the streets of ash

@Mailliw73 He was, but decided to play instead. Made me make up new secrets after I’d shared my original ruleset and everything, but it was probably worth it—the new ones are much better. (this topic was sitting unfinished in a tab for like three days. I’ll fix the tag )

Jastes Lekal took one last look at the smouldering ruins of his home. Family gathered around him, he peered between the lightly falling flakes of ash, as the skaa rebels began to plunder the fire-ridden frame which had once been his mansion. He muttered a curse to himself. What had he been thinking? Giving mere skaa any sort of power? Of course it would come to this, in the end. Blame Elend Venture he would for planting the idea, but had he really been so blinded as to allow representative assemblies by the working peoples? Yes, he had, apparently. But he would not be repeating these same mistakes. He intended, indeed, not to make any idealistic commitment such as that ever again. Fingering a brass earring, Lekal turned to the pitiful, scattered regiment of noble-blooded guards and the few skaa who had had the sense to retain their connections to true nobility in the aftermath of the rebellion. He could trust—or he hoped he could trust—these men. Sticking with somebody who lost power tended to mark you as loyal. Facing them, with a soft, insidious voice seeming to whisper in the dark corners of his mind, he spoke. “I have a plan to recover from this blow.” A few eyebrows went up, but the men said nothing, so Lekal continued. The voice in his head seemed to give him the guidance he needed. “We will make a play for the city of Luthadel itself.” That got reactions. Gasps, mutters, groans. He let them pass—indeed, he revelled in them. His plans would shake the world. “I have access to a force larger than any our enemies can muster—a force which will kill without mercy, fight without pain, and conquer for us. It simply must get into the weakened city. I have a special task for a select few of you…” Trapped. That was how Elend Venture felt. Trapped, and abandoned. Dockson reported that Cett had left the city, which should have been welcome news. Clubs’ spies had even heard credible rumours that Straff Venture was finally dead. That should have made Elend caper with glee. But neither, ultimately, mattered as much as the price he had paid. Vin was gone. A final report, given by a somber Ham, was the worst of the three. The Mistborn Zane, one of his father’s lackeys, had kidnapped Vin. Kidnapped her! He would not believe reports which said that Vin had gone willingly, whatever Ham’s insistences. She couldn’t have. Sazed and Tindwyl had tried to calm him on this matter, but it didn’t work. Elend’s mind raced, trying to figure out how to apprehend the pair. He laughed bitterly. Outpace a pair of Mistborn? Better luck trying to clean the ash off a roof with a pebble. He would need something to draw Zane back, a threat he couldn’t ignore. His plan had been the Atium stash, but they were no closer to that then when they’d first begun. Perhaps he would need to send more men looking for it, now that the city was nearly his again. Elend surveyed the map on his desk. If his father was dead, the threat from the north was mostly finished. An alliance with Cett meant the south and east were mostly his, too. There remained only the west, and that was in good hands with Jastes Lekal. His former confidant would likely be overseeing a happy populace, and would be willing to help Elend find Vin. He sighed. Not much of a victory, but a small one. He’d take it. Unfortunately, it brought him no closer to Vin. Suddenly, the hallway door burst open, revealing a huffing Spook. “Wasing the coming of here,” he gasped out, “finding the moving of Uncle, wasing the seeing of army. Big army.” He spread his hands to indicate size. “Ising the marching of here. West.” Elend’s heart clenched. Another army? Cett’s men had nearly wiped out his supporters the first time. He took a deep breath. Perhaps this, however, would be the threat that drew Zane—and therefore Vin—back to him. He smiled wanly. Perhaps Lekal was not overseeing a content skaa populace after all. Even so, he would force himself to meet and counter this threat as well. It would be the least he could do. Welcome to LG55: Disquiet. With the recent demise of Cett’s Infiltrators at the hands of the Unstable Mistborn, Zane, he and Vin have hoped to begin a new life away from the turmoil in Luthadel. However, their joy is short-lived. Another man with aspirations of taking the city, Jastes Lekal, has arrived, this time with a koloss army at his back. To help weaken the city against his force, he too has sent his Subordinates into Luthadel to topple Elend Venture, the man who currently holds the city. Despite their unwillingness, both sides are now in the conflict, for better or worse. The rules of this game may be accessed here. You may also use the spoiler underneath here, but I make no promises as to the quality of the formatting. Rollover will be at 9:00 PM EDT, or UTC -4:00, at least for now (this may change depending upon my schedule). Signups will close on Thursday 16 May, at 9:00 EDT. (That’s about ten days from now, and marks the end of the busy period in my life. ) Player List: Rules Clarifications: Quick Links: Good luck to all.

This is very true, but is also partially my own mistake. At the time of my lynch, I knew almost for certain that Lumgol or Rath was evil, was leaning heavily towards Lumgol, and additionally found your failure to help my vote suspicious. Instead of spending my last hour of life trying to detail why Lum was evil, which may have gotten her lynched, I instead defended myself, and then proceeded to immediately send CadCom the roleclaims. I waffled a bit in regards to you, but made a split-second decision at the end to send them to you, to avoid the information being centralised. Little did I know Fura would have been a better choice, but oh well. Yep, again agreed. I was able to basically find Sja’anat with the roleclaims, and if I wasn’t killed for them, I’d have been able to swing the game. If I’d not backed off the Lum lynch at the very end of D1 in fear of being too harsh, that also would have been nice >> Well played to the Eliminators, especially Devotary, Lum and Fura. Glad to be with you all in spirit

Before I pass, I’d like to remark how fitting today’s thread title is. Thank you for a fun game, guys. Talk to you in the Spec doc oh, and I’m a truthspren, clearly

I did not scan, I was scanned. By CadCom, as you now know. As for what I did N1, I recharged 2 Stormlight. I’d actually like to thank you, Levitaph, as it’s good to see thorough analysis from you. I understand your qualms, and would likely share them in your place. As Fura notes, I’m not exactly playing my normal game, and likely overextended. As I’ve already stated, the goal of my roleclaiming was to fish out Sja’anat and make it harder for her to hide. I’ve passed on my knowledge to a few people, and hope they can continue my work. I’ve gotten roleclaims from eight people, and believable ones from five or six.

Okay, first: all the votes: -The less active players were also more likely to be Sja’anat herself, not a convert, who I was focusing on. And by my list I posted earlier, I have her on a shortlist of nine, which is narrowing. If most of those players are inactive, so be it. Sja’anat might defy logic and convert less actives regardless, so ignoring them is also unwise. -I could also, you know, be trying to solve for who Sja’anat is, which narrowing people down via roleclaims is very useful for. At the least, we make her claim something obscure or falsifiable. -It is indeed not my true Role, but your willingness to immediately reveal my identity to the thread makes me want to defend myself by claiming my actual race of Truespren go from low to miniscule. You’re likely good, or at least not Sja’anat, but there’s little call to give my role, false or otherwise, to everyone immediately, irrespectively of whether you want to lynch me or not. Keeping it vague would have been better, most likely. -First of all, I am a he. Second, no, I did not craft, as I’m not a Stonespren. There are quite a few not-Stonespren around, actually. All of this has little bearing on my alignment. You bring up my efforts to narrow Sja’anat down as some kind of trick to deceive the thread, but there’s little call, if I was Sja’anat, to go around desperately looking for roles. I could just convert people if I was that intrigued, and clearly role trading draws suspicion, as evidenced by this behemoth of a bandwagon. That’s...not a great reason to back off Ark. And why switch to me? What do you find suspicious? There was again no call to reveal CadCom. You decry me for seeking out roles, but have publicised more private role information than I ever have. This is very vague, and it’s these kinds of statements that make me retain my uneasiness about Rath. I was going to refute his claim that I was phishing in my PM with him, but don’t have time for that anymore. I repeat my question to Dapper: why exactly? I’ve already explained my jump on Lumgol was premature. I have been lying, because my actual role was valuable to the village, and I didn’t want it revealed. I still don’t want it revealed, which is why I’m not disclosing it, even if I’m lynched for it. I will note, however, that your roleclaim is hardly more solid than mine, and is a large part of the reason I suspect you. I hope I’ve given sufficient refutation, Fura. If or when I am mislynched, I would like a thorough look into Lumgol, Rathmaskal, Dr Dapper, and possibly Sart. Trust CadCom, Devotary and Fura for now.

Indeed, a Surge of Productivity is highly coveted by me. If only they weren’t so rare. Wonder what kind of spren could give me one more consistently. I need to bond one ASAP I think I’ll examine my nine suspects for being Sja’anat, in ascending order of suspicion: 9. Snipexe Hasn’t roleclaimed to me, though I’d like him to accept a role-trade at some point, but I don’t think that really affects his status as mostly village in my eyes. His willingness to experiment with the Homolocrum-type things, as well as simply the tone in his PMs, have given me strong village leanings on him. 8/7. xinoehp512/Ark1002 Both inactive for most or all of C1, and therefore very unlikely to be Sja’anat. I trust Xino far more than Ark, though they’re both low on this list because of their activity levels. 6. Levitaph—I’m not really understanding much of the suspicion surrounding them, and am reading them as a confused newer player. 5. Lopen—Had a slightly suspicious roleclaim but has been pushing hard for analysis and activity, though I don’t have much of a read one way or the other 4. Shqueeves 3. Rath 2. Dr. Dapper 1. Lumgol I simply don’t have time to justify the last four, because now four votes got added to me really quickly. I’d urge that if I’m lynched, anyone on this wagon be examined very carefully, as it not-all-that-coincidentally lines up with my suspects. If y’all slow down the posting rate I might be able to actually reply to some of this, hold up.

I am indeed here; was able to get a surge in productivity, and I ought to have an hour or so today. Give me a few minutes to catch up on everything and I’ll start doing some real analysis.

No, sir, away, a papaya war is on!

Alright, I don’t like that tie... Shqueeves if I haven’t done so already and Lumgol. Nothing against you right now, Lum, I just suspect you most out of those five and am using this as a placeholder in case my work leaves me completely incapable of checking the thread tonight.

My apologies all, I’ve had a very busy day and likely an even busier night. I’ll try catching up on PMs now and I’ll get a post up later tonight, hopefully. Does anyone have a vote count?

Hmm. Thank you for checking in, Shqueeves. I agree that there’s currently an outsized focus on Sart, and also Lumgol to some extent, but the focus is somewhat justified considering how narrow D1 discussion was. Hopefully we’ll break out of that box soon enough. One of those two lynches may end up being the most informative for this cycle, though, and of the two I’m leaning still towards Lum as a suspect (though I’m trying to avoid tunnelling). Some people I believe simply aren’t Sja’anat, and others have a very low likelihood of being her, so a current list of immediately suspicious people would be Lopen, Ark, Lumgol, Dr Dapper, Rath, Snip, Levitaph, Shqueeves and perhaps Xino. A lot of people are on here because they simply haven’t roleclaimed to me, though some of these I find a bit more unlikely (such as the newer players, and Snip, who I’ve gotten a good read on from PMs). Others have roleclaimed, but I find their roleclaim hard to verify, suspect them even if the roleclaim is believable, or want more content from them in-thread before making a judgement.

@Shqueeves, @Snipexe, @Rathmaskal and @Dr. Dapper have read my PMs, each three or four hours ago, but not replied. @Levitaph has simply not read it yet; please do. For now, to elicit a response, Shqueeves. Although your mouth may still hurt, I’d like your thoughts on a few players now, or at least a response to my PM. You’ve said little beyond an RNG vote at this point. Edit: Is there anybody I forgot to send a PM to?

Happy Easter to you as well, Sart. That’s fair enough, though I’d appreciate more justification later, if possible. My last post was wishy-washy, but so are my feelings on Lumgol. Looking back over Elandera’s posts, we see a moderate amount of suspicion for Sart, a defence of Lumgol, and a declaration of lowered activity. Depending on the type of Elim we have, she could have been killed for any of the three, but I doubt Sart is the type of Eliminator to kill those suspecting him just because of that. That doesn’t disclude him from being evil, obviously, but I think a more likely reason for the Elandera kill is simply removing a lower-active player (even though Elan is typically more active than the normal “active” player when she’s lower-activity, but I digress ). Such a move would probably be performed by a team which had at least one veteran player on it, which includes...quite a few people, unfortunately for the purposes of narrowing our list down. Still, it’s worth noting. The final possibility is that the Elims intend to mislynch Lumgol, and want to remove one of her defenders. I find this as implausible as the Sart case.

Thank you for the ping; I’ve been struggling with trying to post something, as Easter has left me a bit busy. I think it does, though only marginally; there were certainly good reasons for votes to be drawn away from Lumgol, as I myself was swayed by the logic, but Coop’s lynch for what seemed like a fairly minor tell was a bit...sudden, though that could have been the result of people wanting somewhere to place their vote for Nahel bonds. Nevertheless, the Coop voters, and Lum, should certainly be re-analysed later. Elandera’s death is unfortunate, especially if she’s our only Cryptic. I like PMs With this being potentially our last turn with them, I’d recommend that people use them. I’ll hopefully shoot a few people PMs throughout the day.

Unto Furamirionind, I bequeath Olaf’s box of matches. Use it to set a thread alight with speculation, to roast those with whom you disagree, or to burn the records of any suspicious-looking older posts.

@Coop772 I don’t believe you have reason to panic, at least not yet. There’s two or so hours left in the cycle, and plenty of people are on to explain change their votes. Would you mind further elaborating on what you found suspicious enough about Lumgol to vote on her? I think that’s where most of the suspicion is coming from.

Hmm. I’m a little surprised how fast that lynch swung away from Lumgol—while it was arguably a good thing, the speed with which the Coop counterwagon arose is fairly alarming. The vote is certainly suspicious, but it seems almost as minor as what I accused Lum for. I’ve done a reread of the whole thread. Nothing new particularly jumps out at me, except Fura’s slightly odd vote on me, and a reminder that my suspicion of Lum isn’t entirely abated. However, I can agree for now to not vote on any of these players. Instead, Sart. Not only does his recent vote on CadCom cast him in a poor light, but a lack of focus on inactives, which he seems to advocate, can be potentially deadly to the village; allowing Sja’anat to lurk in the shadows of the game does little good. I won’t pretend this is a terribly justified vote; the most justification I could offer would probably be a re-addition of my vote to Lum, but I’ve found her recent posts village enough that I don’t particularly want to do that. I’d be happy with seeing either of Sart or Coop flip for information, but as a more personal decision I’d rather see Sart’s flip, most notably to see if Lumgol was perhaps being set up from the beginning of the cycle. During the Night cycle, and after lynch results, I’ll add my thoughts on each of the current players.

I’d be happy with any of our three candidates, but will officially vote for Fura.

That’s a fair point, Elandera, and one I hadn’t quite considered. I suppose the “conjecture” sort of rubbed me the wrong way, though, as I’ve seen it used by Eliminators to avoid taking firm stances, and since it’s often accompanied by a lack of firm suspicions, I perhaps prematurely assumed that Lum was doing the same by connection. I still find the wording odd, but your explanation also makes a good deal of sense. Hmm. I understand your thinking (and good luck with your teeth getting pulled), but I’d also appreciate it if you could find the time to weigh in on other players sometime soon, so that we can get something more solidly AI from you. Again, you bring up interesting points, Fura. At this point I am far less suspicious of Lumgol than I was previously, which you’ve correctly identified, and indeed am backtracking on her lynch, as I no longer believe quite as firmly in its validity. Yeah, as I said before, I probably wasn’t in a D1 mindset making that post, and had forgotten a good deal of the context. Probably has to do with my main posts normally being before and directly after going to sleep. @Lumgol, my apologies for slightly jumping the gun here—I think this has been made sufficiently clear. In conjunction with your defence, Lumgol, as while I hardly trust you, your responses to my accusations, which were themselves premature, have given me more of a village feeling from you. Villagers are defensive, but Eliminators prioritise survival over all else. I guess this feels like I’m also splitting hairs, but Eliminators (to me at least) will typically not only fear the lynch, but also won’t take significant risks, whether with actions or words, unless forced. As such, remaining within “safe” statements is generally good for them. I don’t know exactly where I was going with this, to be honest, but that was my thought process when I made that vote. Again, I dislike the RNG-vote as it’s a good way to neatly avoid having to justify a vote, or put significant thought behind it; while it may be less harmful D1, it’s still not helping the village with analysis or with the lynch itself. In regards to your later points on Rath, I tend to think that every game about him, and I’m always wrong. I think I’ve gotten him lynched or have killed him several times in suspicion for exactly that. While I’d hate to ruin a good tradition, that’s probably just an ellipses-heavy writing style, which makes the tone (at least to me) sound more hesitant. While I don’t necessarily fully agree with his vote, I did almost the same thing, so I’m not really judging him. Coop’s vote, however, is more suspicious, and I’ll likely vote on either him or return my vote to Lum by the end of the cycle.

Ninja Alv, merging threads while I was still typing in the LG. Congrats to Steel for taking the only action that allowed the Soldiers to win. And obviously congrats to Elandera for going so far without supporting team members. It was a lot of fun watching the crowd thin around her, and serves as a good reminder that bussing as a strategy to gain trust is still alive and well. Finally, poor Joe. So close to winning as a thief. Ah well. I look forward to Sart’s promised rerun of this game. Maybe I’ll have the time to fully join that one

Eh, you’d be surprised. “Blatant” pursuit of very active and vocal players is more easily done, actually, because there’s more content from which to draw suspicion; as such, both villagers and Elims will go for such lynches. It might be why I’ve focused on you a bit, but I believe my points still stand irrespective of higher content levels perhaps producing more suspicion. Mechanics analysis isn’t an issue, but shouldn’t replace player analysis. The first tends to be more NAI than the second, and the second helps develop and expose links between players, making it far easier to find Elims. 1) While I’d rather not get too meta here, any record of mechanics analysis done in the past has no bearing on your alignment now. I’m not criticising your analysis; in fact, I agree with a good portion of it. But I’m concerned that you’re using it as a screen to avoid player analysis, which I saw as bad. While your explanation assuages some of my suspicion, the fact remains that the mechanics thing wasn’t the only reason I voted for you. Second, yes, player analysis helps lead mislynches if an Elim can do it convincingly, but it also provides insights into which people are suspicious of each other, defending each other, etc. It’s a goldmine of data that mechanics discussion simply can’t rival, and is fruitful even if we have a mislynch here or there. And people that obviously push lynches on more trusted players, or bandwagon needlessly, are exposed by player analysis and the voting that follows. 2) It’s still enough to begin discussion, and player discussion can spring from mechanics talk (as indeed it has here). Pokevotes like Sart’s, and even random actions like Shqueeves’s, can drive this analysis. However, you raise a valid point that little directly lynch-related had been said. 3) I appreciate that you’re trying to save your life, but obviously can’t clear you for it, as an Eliminator would try the exact same thing (in fact, an Eliminator would have greater incentive to preserve themselves than a villager). Further, if you truly want to protect yourself from the lynch, I suggest proposing a candidate who wasn’t chosen by RNG. The lynch swings dramatically throughout the cycle, and a quick self-preservation vote on me is indicative of a mindset concerned with instant survival, again a higher priority of Eliminators than villagers. I will admit that you bring up good points in your posts, but I don’t have enough to justify the removal of my vote quite yet, as you’re still my clear highest suspect. If a better candidate is offered with more compelling reasoning, I’d be fine switching. I’d also back a Shqueeves lynch if more people are comfortable with him as a candidate than Lumgol. Sounds fair enough.

I’m thinking we should focus on you, Lumgol. Irrespective of your jumping on a literally random vote against me, this post sets my alarm bells ringing. First, there’s no distinction between Sja’anat and a convert until we lynch them; before then, they’re both just Elims and are equally necessary to remove. So why bring this up at all? It’s splitting hairs, and drives discussion in a meaningless direction, and away from focus on players, which is the discussion that will ultimately lead to us finding Eliminators. If/when we do find them, it won’t matter whether they’re a convert or Sja’anat herself—it’ll be equally bad for the Eliminator team. I’m not really on board with Sart’s logic on your first post, but I do take issue that you’re focusing heavily on mechanics (again) and not players. This gives you a post, with the semblance of activity and analysis, which is convenient for a Sja’anat!Lumgol after your own insinuations that inactives were more likely to be evil, and also conveniently prevents you from having to give opinions on other players until later. Even your current vote dodges this necessity, as you can claim self-preservation rather than genuine suspicion once I flip village. @Shqueeves, if I wasn’t voting for Lumgol, I’d be voting on you. What good does your random vote do? I’ve already responded to the thread, and clearly am not inactive. As with Lumgol, your post conveniently allows you to not have to justify your vote. Meditation (Yes, this is what spellcheck corrected “edit” to): Steel’s PAFO is probably a yes, which is unfortunate. If it was explicitly against the rules, I don’t see a reason for him not to clarify. Assuming this is the case, however, I doubt Sja’anat has more than three *extra* lives—this would grant a maximum of four Eliminators at a single time, which seems most reasonable.

Hey all! I’ve not got much time currently, and should probably refamiliarise myself with the rules, but I’d like to quickly respond to a few people and offer some thoughts of my own. First, with this being a conversion game, I’d be surprised if a D1 lynch is accurate given there's only one or two Elims right now, but we still ought to have one, or at least start the Day with the commitment to do so. The information and reads we get out of lynch discussion will likely be worth the missing player. Second, I’d theorise that with a size of seventeen, we probably have a Sja’anat with three to four lives, or an extra starting Enlightened and a Sja’anat with two or three. This sort of depends on whether Sja’anat can suicide to Enlighten a final spren. @Steeldancer @Mailliw73? Sja’anat has no incentive to be inactive this game, as the activity mechanics make lurking a fairly awful idea. However, simply targeting people for inactivity is also unwise, as I know that several people have stated they’ll not have terribly much time. A D1 inactive lynch might be worth it, though, depending on how discussion today pans out. I’d...be fine with this? I was going to object on the grounds that doing the Elims’ work for them by killing the Stormfather is a bad idea, but getting the Stormfather simply to bond another person is easy enough if we have a person we trust to vouch for them. I also believe that if Sja’anat is lynched, the Stormfather should claim so that she can’t wriggle out of a lynch by getting a teammate to vouch that they’ve been “bonded.”