Fifth Scholar

Just getting back and seeing this, and not remarking on the rest of your post (as I’ve already stated what I believe about each of Fura’s posts), but I can attest that Fura also tried to sniff out my PM contacts as well, and despite me rebuffing her, somebody else told her anyway because the two were in contact. She also initially refused a role-trade, then upon accepting it, made a deliberately false claim which basically ruined a beautiful plan I had formulated, then backtracked and claimed a role which I find suspicious. In addition, she’s just generally shied away from giving definitive opinions on her suspicions, and my PMs have gone similarly quiet. In regards to your bodyhopping Kandra theory, it is interesting, but I doubt it’s actually the case considering that having a player change alignment almost every cycle would probably break the game.

Alright, that analysis. I keep promising it, and here it actually is. First, some quick responses: Given that you encouraged Thugs to claim to you, even essentially threatening them if they didn’t, I find this a little hypocritical. Note, before I continue with an actual case on Aman; obviously, if he’s village, then these are legitimate suspicions, but if he’s evil then Devotary is probably clear of being an Elim, and one of Rath and Fura are evil with him. Also, hello to Bard. Good to see more activity. @Young Bard, to help you catch up, do you mind giving your thoughts on Drake as you reread the thread? (Totally not trying to offload analysis in any way, here ) What was that? I agree with everything you say about this luxuriant yellow I’m now employing. As I’m now using an IM colour, and should therefore probably make some sort of announcement, I’ll note that you technically shouldn’t comment here as you’re not participating, but I’ll let it go if only to troll you more with this shade of yellow for just a little...bit...longer... Would like to note a quick suspicion of Straw for this post. It contributes very little to discussion, while appearing to say something vaguely villager-ish. As with Fura’s post following Aman’s attack and survival, it’s also a little suspicious for its quick way of brushing over Aman’s survival, and the hesitant language sets off a few alarms. Village!Straw is still brief, but tends towards concise and relevant commentary rather than “throwaway” posts like these which are good at making somebody appear active but allows them to remain in the shadows. Now, onto my case against Furamirionind: First post of the game with a fairly standard poke vote. I don’t see anything that particularly stands out here, other than the fact that Fura perhaps could have had more to contribute than a poke on me, particularly since she wasn’t eliciting my opinions on any one thing in particular. This post looks substantial, but is ultimately commentary on a completely NAI subject, is confined to pure speculation, and doesn’t help advance discussion in a helpful direction; indeed, it further sidetracks it from the commentary on players and actual roles which drives the production of AI content. Further discourse on this subject, which again drew the village down somewhat of a rabbit-hole and created no meaningful content to analyse. I’d be fine if this sort of speculation was tied into something else, such as a broader analysis or RP, but the sole focus on this matter is where such posts become detrimental, disfocusing the village. NAI. I’m suspicious of pocketing, but I’m always suspicious, and a villager would post that just as much as an Elim. The first part gives me Elim vibes, but only if Aman is evil. This is because one typical Eliminator strategy is to quote and question each other in thread so it looks like they’re interacting and feeling each other out there, and aren’t weirdly avoiding each other like they would, if, say, they shared a doc, and Aman being one of the very first people quoted makes me think Fura is using this strategy if, as I suspect, they’re evil together. Either way, as this is a fairly easy question for Aman to answer, it seems perfect for the sort of mild distancing which Elims prefer. Another poke vote, though much later in the cycle when enough analysable content had been produced as to make such a measure unnecessary. As such, despite the factors which Fura mentions which may have contributed to this being her only idea at the time, I’m leaning slightly Eliminator from this post. An essentially NAI joke post follows which I shan’t analyse. Again chooses to address only Aman with a fairly short question which is easily answered, setting herself slightly against Aman and away from him without actually taking a stance on the D1 lynch. Reluctance to take a stance + possible distancing gives me another Eliminator read. Basically NAI—either alignment would have withdrawn the poke vote. I’ll note that she promised to vote later here but never followed through on this pledge. I think at this point, either village or Eliminator Fura would realise that poke votes weren’t helping and stopped using them. Quickly noting another promise to vote which was not kept. The bulk of my issue with this post is the 99% clear of Ventyl, which she never particularly explains, and which appears to be either pocketing or a blatant attempt to get a fellow teammate trusted. There’s little reason for a villager to have that degree of confidence in anyone's alignment, and I’m also wary of Stick for later echoing this sentiment, particularly as it’s unexplained. I too view Ventyl as village, but not to the assumed degree which these two jumped to. Fura calls for Drake to comment, which I’d mark as slightly village if Drake is village—I feel like an Eliminator might take the occasion to add a vote here and kill a villager. That said, if Drake is village and Fura did cast the deciding vote, that would have been slightly suspicious, something an Elim would avoid, which is why I’m hesitant on everyone who refrained from voting yesterday—I’m a little more swayed by the “village Drake” arguments, and concede the possibility of the Elims standing aside with clean hands as we chose between killing two villagers, then stepping in with an “I told you so” after the fact. As that’s what Aman has done, that obviously contributes to my suspicion of him, and the attack on him yesterday. There’s this post, which is a major reason for my suspicion of Fura and although Stick already mentioned it, it’s worth bringing back up. Unwillingness to be affiliated with villager deaths or take definitive stances on divisive and AI situations are classic Elim tells. First paragraph, though I viewed it as Elim to begin with for false sympathy, is probably NAI on reflection—a villager would probably share the same sentiments. Essentially coercing the Mistborn and Thugs to claim to her is a fairly elim move—as I brought up at the time, there was no reason Fura was inherently trustworthy. The final paragraph is neutral leaning village. It’s a good point on Drake, though given that I was tunnelling at the time I wasn’t prepared to really hear it. I really don’t like the first two paragraphs here—it seems like a false dilemma is being set up: claim to Fura or somebody else now, or be lynched and not be able to claim later. Also, a standard case that we can’t take your word on you being a villager, as everyone will say that, and the alleged confidence you possess in your alignment is not a reason to trust you. ^This is from Aman, and is part of why I’m considering an Aman/Fura team. They’ve been relatively close for most of the game, and the noncommittal defence of Fura here is another reason that I suspect they’re working together. Questions to Snip and Devotary. Mostly NAI, potentially a very slight village lean. Might look for a teammate here if Fura flips Elim for the distancing reasons I mentioned earlier—Snip or Straw would probably be my guess for the third person in an Aman/Fura team. Although I’m not entirely sure what Fura’s getting at here, I doubt it’s particularly relevant to her alignment (though I give this a very slight village reading for the stance on D1 lynches, though that reading is perhaps compromised by the fact that she never participated in it). There are reasons for a power role to PM somebody they think is village and offer them a role trade, and despite the risk it is the Coinshot’s call. That said, NAI as Fura could hold this position from either alignment. NAI questioning, really. That was long, and I apologise for its length, but combined with reads I’ve been getting from PMs on Fura, I definitely believe she ought to be lynched today.

High. AG3 is the easiest example and I can pull others. Not to mention that this is the exact kind of move Elim!Aman would make. I again just got back from an eight hour hiatus so give me time to look at PMs and yesterday’s thread.

Why you? This seems heavily suspicious; how are you any more trustworthy than another player that a remaining Mistborn ought to claim? @Furamirionind, justifying a third vote on Ark would prove difficult, as the lynch had zero logical basis, and would make whoever cast the vote look suspicious as Braize. With Drake also not really around for the end of the cycle, the Elim team may have also had a more disorganised response to the Drake lynch were he among their number. Another possibility is that Drake is the Kandra, and was evil for the reasons I mentioned but had no team to rally behind him. Or he’s a villager who just got on the wrong side of a lot of things, but I’m inclined to view him as suspicious for the reasons I mentioned at the end of yesterday.

...ouch. That is not what I hoped to return to. Right. First, this somewhat strengthens my suspicions of Drake if he was in any sort of contact with Ark—I see Ventyl’s vote as a lot cleaner than Drake’s, and would certainly like to hear more from him now. Who did you PM yesterday, Drake? Same goes for you as well, Ventyl. If you’d prefer not to share it’s understandable, but sharing might go a long way towards us knowing that you didn’t have evil intent in voting for Ark if he claimed something incriminating. (Although to think of it they might be elim teammates with somebody else who contacted Ark, so perhaps this isn’t the best idea unless everyone claimed, which I wouldn’t advocate.) Next, if Drake does prove to be evil, we need to take a long, hard look at the people who abstained from voting at the end of last cycle and let two random votes kill what’s likely our best remaining role. While the odds of a coinshot are depressingly low, perhaps a Kandra will be willing to target Drake tonight? :> If Drake is evil, Rath is a likely partner, with Devotary perhaps being with the two of them as well.

So I’m finding myself in the slightly uncomfortable position of wanting a D1 lynch but having little clear target. While I am curious about Aman’s alignment, I’ve not seen enough suspicious content compared with his sound analysis to merit a second vote on him, and Devotary feels like too easy a target; if she’s evil, I’d place her as a more likely Kandra than an Eliminator. I’m inclined to wait and watch both players, especially since they’re active enough that their death would be a significant loss were they lynched early on as a villager with no real suspicion surrounding them. In terms of other active players, I’m getting slight village reads from Stick for her generally helpful contributions (which I’m mostly ignoring, as she’s good enough at those to fool me), neutral leaning evil on Rath for hesitance and reluctance to commit to a particular stance, which I’m also mostly ignoring as I think I read him as evil in basically every game we play together for that exact reason, and no significant read one way or the other on Fura or Lum. Lum in particular is interesting, as her latest post gives me something to suspect (her commentary on Devotary, which could be hesitance but mostly looks like textbook hedging) and something to praise (her poking of Aman, which, while I don’t agree with all of the actual content, appears to be coming from a villager mindset). Note: if you didn’t appear on either of these lists, that’s not necessarily bad, as some players have produced good content even with only a post or two (Sart, Araris, etc.), but I would like to see more out of you, up to and including a vote. That leaves Drake. Aside from being left after PoE, there’s also the fact that despite his posts providing good insight on roles (his comments on elim hazekillers, Kandra Mistborn, etc.), they’ve been mostly confined to speculation, and he’s avoided most talk on other players other than a vote on Rath which he removed very quickly (making me think a Drake/Rath team isn’t out of the question). While the role analysis is appreciated, it’s also a convenient way to be active without directly contributing to discussion on the lynch itself. Also, upon actually coming to a decision on who to lynch, Drake’s method doesn’t sit well with me. At the very least, he could have used his list of six to pare down who he found most suspicious among those six and then added a vote; however, using RNG (or supposedly doing so) takes responsibility out of his hands if Ark actually is lynched, which I don’t really like (on top of this, the fact that Ark was chosen, who already had a vote on him, seems rather convenient). Finally, his comment that makes me suspicious, not only because it allows trusted Eliminators to use an early village read to coast through the game, but also because this comment follows on the heels of Drake being read as village by almost everybody. It seems like an indirect way of giving trust to himself. This perhaps isn’t as strong a lynch case as I’d really like; however, unlike Drake, I’ll be unable to get on in time for rollover because my church has VBS which I have to help out with right as the cycle is closing. As such, this vote will be permanent unless someone can change my mind in the next thirty minutes, as Drake is my strongest suspicion currently. Mostly, even if this doesn’t kill Drake, I’d ideally just appreciate his response to the points I’ve brought up.

Without fully addressing your latest wall, Amanuensis. I believe we’ve reached, or at least closely approached, a general point of agreement, and as such my vote is no longer helpful where it lies. We’ll retain our separate beliefs on D1 lynches, certainly, but with your explanation it’s no longer a serious reason to suspect you, though I don’t reciprocate your alleged confidence in me—I think your statements have been generally NAI, perhaps with a village lean, but my paranoia is still on high alert. Sorry about that To everyone else, I’d call for a greater quantity of analysis from everyone, as if neither Aman, Stick nor myself are evil, this current thread will be decidedly unhelpful to the village. Additionally, I encourage any player undecided on who to PM to begin a conversation with me.

My opinion on D1 lynches is fairly settled, true—except in extreme cases, I’ll value discussion over the lives of villagers, including my own; I’m unaware if you’ve played games with me before when I do this, but I tend to be okay with mislynches on me if the discussion and reads surrounding the lynch and my death are more productive than a pursuit of a suspicion of mine who I’m not certain is an elim; if they’re not, discussion is further wasted and there’s a major unresolved point of conflict. I don’t know how much of that made sense, but in essence this might amount to a difference in playstyle or preferences. While I’ll acknowledge that, it doesn’t particularly reduce my suspicion of you. As for your next three paragraphs, I basically agree completely with what you’re saying here, and recognise that I maybe (probably) misinterpreted your statement; however, I’d like to briefly defend at least some bandwagon votes—for instance, if a player presents a compelling argument, and another person follows their argument but adds “I disagree with part X of your analysis, but quote Y from this Player is another reason to find them suspicious,” or something along those lines, that’s fine as it still adds to discussion despite bandwagoning. Even players who do simply sheep still help more than by not voting at all because it’s easier to track who they’re sheeping and why. So bandwagon votes are a little more acceptable in my view. That said, original analysis should always be encouraged. My apologies as to how that statement came off; it wasn’t my intent, but in my defence I’ve participated in enough discussion on the value of D1 lynching as to be slightly weary on the whole topic. Perhaps it’s because it seems like circular discussion which simply exists for its own sake, or because the constant debate is not changing my views, but discussion on this sort of thing always seems to me like an elaborate digression which gives players an excuse to comment on something which is generally NAI and not related to the actual business of finding Eliminators. Anyone who brings it up, therefore, makes me slightly suspicious, but your explanation as to why you did so is reasonable, so you get a pass. An increased emphasis on the alignment flip was more implicit from your qualification that The idea here is that if people don’t have a genuine reason to vote, the D1 lynch should be abstained from because friendly fire is the main risk; hence, the killing and alignment flip are the most important products of a D1 lynch. Conversely, I see the lack of discussion generated by a no-lynch as more harmful than the friendly fire that a lynch can sometimes create, and therefore the greater risk; again, an emphasis on discussion and analysis over alignment flips and death, which seems to be your main focus. We are of a similar mind, I’d agree, but certainly not the same; indeed, it’s in this paragraph in which I take the largest issue from your stance on the D1 lynch. You say that So my issue with this is that I agree with you. The more a player is alive, the more chances they have to slip, the more we get a clearer picture of their alignment, etc. You’re correct. But they only need to create the kind of content which is worth analysing if they know that there’s a credible threat to them in the form of a lynch. The lynch, as you point out in your next paragraph, is wonderful at catching Eliminators. But it’s also a bludgeon, usable for prodding people into giving their opinions on other players and to pressure those players we find to be suspicious or quiet; however, this important function is scrapped if a predetermination is made that we shouldn’t lynch. Without retaining the ability and the threat of a kill, the village is unable to force Eliminators and indolent villagers into the sort of analysable discussions that eventually allow us to lynch them. Therefore, keeping them around longer, as you propose, doesn’t necessarily increase the amount of “quality” content which a suspicious player puts out, and simply gives the Eliminators more time to determine who should die (rather than the village), without really helping the village along in their quest. Re: friendly fire, I agree that nobody really appreciates dying, but death is ultimately what advances the game for both villagers and Eliminators (after all, we signed up for a game which explicitly promises that we’d get the chance to kill our friends ). Without lynching today, we would grant the Eliminators (and the judgement of any vigilante villagers) the only say in who is to die. That’s less fair to the killed villagers than a lynch in which they may participate and give reasons and arguments for why they should be allowed to live. I do understand your philosophy here, and your aversion to what you believe is an uninformed risk. But a D2 lynch without a D1 lynch discussion and result is just as uninformed as the regular D1 lynch, and only serves to set back discussion. And while every villager lynched does put the Eliminators closer to victory, the only way we kill and catch Eliminators is via the lynch (or by vigilantes, but they’re less predictable and not something most of the village can participate in). Our method of killing does put villagers at risk, but it’s also the only way to accomplish our win condition; therefore, sometimes we pay the price which a mislynch exacts. My apologies if I seem callous, but the risk you speak of is part of SE and never really goes away. As for my views on Devotary and Rath? I initially suspected Devotary for what seems in hindsight to be nothing more than misunderstood/messy phrasing (perhaps here you’d draw an analogy ), but have since moved my read back up to neutral with perhaps a slight elim tilt. She’s not said or done much to earn my trust, and my initial suspicion of her comments is kind of lingering. I’m not entirely sure why people are pursuing Rath for the role-madness comment—based on the last few LGs, it seems a fair assumption to make, though on the off-chance he’s both wrong and village he did paint a target on his back. As with Devotary, however, I’ve seen little which makes me trust him, and would probably like more analysis on players from him (though that goes for pretty much everybody).

Could you elaborate on this? Why are role trades more desirable as the game continues, or less useful early on? Even if people have little genuine reason to vote, they should admit as such—and still vote. Also, are we really bringing back this discussion again? [Plugs Kas’ post in LG12] There, that was a fun and conclusive conversation! As for these points, and some of your later posts, I’d push back against the idea that the main value we garner from the lynch is the alignment flip, at least on D1; certainly, it’s important, but the discussion generated when both villagers and Eliminators have to start choosing sides in a lynch with real stakes is ultimately what produces the AI content which allows us to analyse players and further the game. And as for your comment on friendly fire, that set off a lot of alarms to me. An inherent risk in lynching, or vigilante killing, is friendly fire, and being unwilling to accept that risk simply allows invariably hostile fire from the Eliminators to determine the broader course of the game. As I disagree with his views on this and on D1 lynches, and because I’m getting increasingly suspicious that I’m being pocketed, Amanuensis (and Devotary as well, I suppose, whose read I’ve bumped back up to neutral). That said, one area I do agree with Aman on is the need for more players to contribute—part of my suspicion of Aman may lie in the simple fact that the sheer volume of content he’s posted has made me find something to latch onto, and in any case we need to start getting more reads on lesser-active players if we hope to perform well in the endgame. And this is either pocketing, me starting to head into a tunnel, or a paranoia-inducing IKYK from Kandra!Aman. Either way this is kind of making me want to see Aman dead so that I have an alignment to attach to whatever he’s doing to me. >>

I’m a little more hesitant on Aman’s system. Certainly, they’re a neat concept, and would perhaps be useful in gauging players should Aman die and flip one way or the other, but the “village bucks” also seem like a good way for an Eliminator to attempt to pocket villagers or explicitly give a teammate quite literal “town cred.” I hold to this view in spite of, and perhaps because of, Aman’s comment on bribery. That said, I’m hanging onto mine. I’d disagree with the notion that Elims would automatically like PMs gone. Aside from the trollish but distinctly possible case of an Eliminator Tineye, there’s also the fact that PMs are useful for Elims on occasion, allowing for misdirection and pocketing. So while I’d perhaps be hesitant about claiming were I a village Tineye, it wouldn’t necessarily be an awful idea either. Poke votes are helpful early on, as there’s little else to base discussion on than introductory posts. As content is continually created, their utility diminishes and eventually disappears altogether. But they’re nice to get the ball rolling, and provoke AI content from other players. I find the likelihood of an Eliminator Kandra close to zero. I forget who on the balance committee reviewed Striker’s ruleset, but compromised Eliminator teams who are unaware that they’re compromised is one of the biggest and most persistent breaks in SE history. Aside from simply doubting that it’d be allowed for the sake of balance, such a Kandra would have to execute both win conditions, being the last Eliminator standing, which would be even harder than the job of a regular SK. I agree that non-Allomancer likely means “Kandra” or “another Hazekiller,” and doesn’t allow the Hazekiller to disrupt the Eliminator kill. As for Thugs protecting themselves, as Aman and I have brought up, if a Thug that survives a lynch doesn’t convincingly claim Mistborn, I’d be inclined to suspect them of being evil/Kandra unless it’s very late in the game and we absolutely need the extra villager. Even then I’d be suspicious. How will killing the Kandra help if they’re starting to kill Elims? I’ll confess I’m not really sure what you mean there. But yes, until the later stages of the game, the Kandra can likely be ignored unless we find evidence that they’ve allied themselves with the Elims. I do not plan on pulling out of a lynch regardless of what role somebody claims, unless it’s Mistborn. As such, I advise that we only switch off a Thug claim if we have reasons apart from the claim which would compel us to move votes. While your explanation of your other sentence makes sense, Devotary, I retain a hesitance about you, so I’ll leave my vote where it for now and then reaffirm or move it towards the end of the cycle. Speaking of which, @Furamirionind, I’d appreciate it if you could either elaborate on your reasons for keeping a vote on me, or remove it. First, as I’ll insist a million times, openness in PMs did not ruin the village in LG54. It was my failure to act on the information I acquired in a sufficient frame of time which killed the village. And the fact that they killed me before I could use it. Second, role trades are fine. You’re free to deny them, but they’re also useful, whether as a sign of trust, an attempt to gain information and keep an eye on another player, or for doing role analysis. IMO, they’re unfairly maligned more than they’re rightfully appreciated.

Just checking in. Hi. I’ll prod Fura. Furamirionind. (Fura) Anyway, a lot of AI content has been put out there in the brief hours since I was asleep, so I’ll respond piece-by-piece and then comment on the ruleset, which I find fascinating for something which is simply modifying standard AG rules. An admirable goal. I’d point out that poke-voting at this stage of the game is more helpful than it would perhaps otherwise be, and a good way to start lynch discussion, so while this kind of vote would draw attention a bit later, for now I’m actually getting a (very) slight village read off Ark. Is there a reason Walin was chosen, out of curiosity? I like Drake’s role analysis here (in fact, I like this entire post of his), but I’ll still respond bullet-by-bullet: - I would recommend, obviously, that village Thugs save their Pewter for Night, and unless they’re a Mistborn, not to use it to oppose a Day lynch unless we’re very low on villagers. While this seems counterintuitive, with a limited number of lynches in the game thanks to the prevalence of kills, I’d rather not waste one getting no result. One of the ways I suspect Striker might balance this is a smaller elim team with vote manipulation, extra lives and maybe a Seeker or Smoker, so I’d certainly not treat Thugs as a likely village role. - Mistborn do seem quite heavily powerful this game. It’s my hope that the rest of the village hasn’t been disempowered because of this, though I don’t think that would be the case—I suspect the lack of a Mistborn more likely than people getting made, say, regular villagers because of one; there’s simply too few of us for someone not to have a role going up against an elim team likely containing a variety of good roles. As for the Mistborn themselves (should they exist), even if you have Steel, please don’t use it N1 at the very least. Then, we can see if we have a regular coinshot, and if so, we might be able to slow the rate of death and reduce the likelihood of large-scale village massacres every night. That said, one villager should probably use their kill role every night, just so we have some measure of retaliation against the Elim and Kandra kills. - That’s an interesting take on Hazekillers, and one which I’d agree with on principle. It does seem like a more useful Eliminator role, though of course that’s hardly indicative of who actually received it; I’d be unsurprised if both teams got one. If you are a village Hazekiller, though, please don’t use your powers randomly. I appreciate this sentiment. That said, now that there’s a few more posts, do you have any thoughts? Welcome to SE, Ventyl! In regards to Ark’s vote, that’s an interesting take on it; poke votes, as they’re called, are typically used to feel out players and elicit responses, as you’ve identified, but are normally used for analysis, and both Elims and villagers will do them. That said, as with Ark, I appreciate your willingness to bring up lynch discussion early, which will earn another (very) slight village read. I agree with the first half of your second paragraph about Mistborn and Coinshots. However, I think you’ve misinterpreted the Kandra role—I think it’s essential that the village remove them before they can win, even if it’s not explicitly stated in the rules; otherwise, with the Kandra lacking other powers, its job would be almost impossibly difficult if it had to play Kingmaker as well as Serial Killer. That or the Kandra has secrets, of course. I disagree that we should use last-minute lynches to rob extra-life roles of their ability to escape the lynch; while I don’t necessarily want to waste a lynch, as I detailed above, a measure such as this would diminish lynch discussion, reducing it to the last hours of a turn instead of the full 48 hours we can and should be using; moreover, last minute voting creates bandwagoning, which muddles analysis and dilutes thoughtful lynch discussion, both measures which Eliminators support. As such, Devotary, as I’d appreciate clarification on your comment. Were you actually supporting the measure which you pointed out? ...and with cross country practice looming, I’ll not be able to perform that role analysis I promised earlier in this post. :/ I’ll get to it once I get back.

Elend’s men had performed a near-unceasing vigil during the night, eyeing each of their neighbours with suspicion and keeping daggers underneath their pillows; another murder was anticipated. It was a tired and haggard force which therefore awoke the next day to the shocked realisation that the customary whittling of their number had not been effected; indeed, had not been attempted in the first place. Far from banishing the calls for collective action against a killer, however, such an occurrence only strengthened the resolve of the gutted inner circle which surrounded Elend Venture that one of their number should be held responsible for unmitigated treason against their leader, and the lack of a killing seemed to confirm the worst fears of a quieter group of advisors, which rose to protest the vocal role that Aname Plees had taken of late. What had before been seen as a necessary continuation of her influence in finding and subduing Vin had soured into suspicion that an elaborate ruse had been practised on them all. So it was that Ford Prefect, along with Snip and Abe, rose against Aname, seeking to quickly dispatch her before serious retaliation could be considered. However, as the day had grown long in the midst of the heated debate, the snowy owl with which Aname had a natural affinity woke from its long slumber in the dark recesses of the room, sensing the approach of night. Upon viewing danger to Aname, Heer Kilyal II sprang from his perch, alighting on Ford’s head and driving his claws into his skull. Abe sprinted towards Ford, attempting to rescue him or drive away the feathered ball of fluff which was beginning to crush Ford’s head in between its talons, but tripped and landed facefirst on the long, trailing carpet which spanned the length of the room, which Aname had kicked into his path hurriedly. Two coins fell from his pocket, landing on opposite sides, and Abe sensed...disappointment?...coming from the object. Meanwhile, Snip, standing nearby, reacted instinctively; his instincts as a Hazekiller, honed from decades of training, had him snatch a nearby spear and ram it through Aname as soon as the owl began attacking Ford. Spinning, he pointed the spear at the white-feathered creature, but it had already released Ford’s corpse, and appeared to be hopping around with a paper in its beak. Snip snatched it out of the dull bird’s mouth, and read it to the quieted room. “I, Jastes Lekal, hereby allow these four men: Ford Prefect, Senn Conrad III, ‘Zane the Mad,’ and Doma, to access any aid within Luthadel which they should require in the process of handing me the city. If you see this letter and obey me, keep silent at my command. I am coming soon.” Dropping the paper, he crumpled to the ground in front of Aname’s freshly killed corpse, in remorse and relief. The threat was over. Now to rebuild. Lumgol was lynched! She was a Elend’s Loyalist Tineye 2! Furamirionind was lynched! She was a Lekal’s Subordinate Rioter 2! Lum (2): Fura, Snip Fura (2): Coop, Lum All of Jastes Lekal’s men have been driven out of the city, and with Zane and Vin neutralised, Elend’s Loyalists have won the day. My apologies for a slightly rushed aftermath writeup. Joe is busy working on something very large; meanwhile, I’m in need of sleep, and the dead doc is distracting me. (Not that I’m complaining, it’s fun. ) A more complete writeup, along with a general reflection on how the game went, will be coming within the next few days. Until then, a few special thanks, and the doc links: First, to @Alvron for IMing, as well as @Elbereth who helped me make a few calls on balance and was generally wonderful to discuss the game with until real life prevented her from checking in as much. Both were fun spectators, and you can find our discussion here. Second, to my co-GM @A Joe in the Bush. His help was invaluable with writeups, and though work and busy-ness also took him out of the picture later in the game, he continued to pitch in where he could. He deserves all the upvotes you can find to give him. More importantly, however, he served as the Gatekeeper of the Dead, Kelsier, and the largest of the four secrets in the game. His role was mainly to be able to pass on short messages from the dead, and to troll and make people paranoid. He accomplished both wonderfully. You may access his realm, the realm of the dead, here. (Said realm also describes the final two secrets, Alv’s Carpet and Kelsier, for those interested.) Third, to the Mistborn. @_Stick_ and @Mailliw73 were both highly active and committed players, and though they were caught early, the silver-tongued speech of Maill and the ingenuity of Stick’s plans bought them a few extra turns. While they were ultimately unable to clinch victory, I thank them both for their dedication to the roles I gave them, and admire the guile they demonstrated in their use of actions, especially with Maill’s pet OreSeur. Here you may find their conversation. Fourth, to the Eliminators. As with the Mistborn, they were all active and driven, and made the most of their circumstances despite a few poor turns of fortune. Particularly, the work which @Steeldancer put into finding Zane, the stalling efforts of @Devotary of Spontaneity and @Rathmaskal which denied the Mistborn their victory, and the distancing and perseverance of @Furamirionind towards the end were a joy to watch unfold and brought the Subordinates to the cusp of victory. Their planning is every bit as good as the Mistborn’s, and I thank them for their consistent activity and dedication to the game, even when dead. Here is their doc. Finally, to the village, congratulations and thank you for playing. While I shan’t tag all of you, I ought to make note of @Araris Valerian for tolerating being the first person lynched (again...), @Elandera and @Lumgol for being active voices towards the end of the game after many of the more active villagers had died in the first few cycles, and @Cadmium Compounder and @Amanuensis for sticking with the game consistently despite IRL obligations cluttering up their time. To close off, I’d like to say that it’s my hope and pleasure as a GM to provide a fun game for all of you, and that it’s my wish that I followed through on that commitment here. Final Player List:

The cycle is over. As usual, please PAFO to see if the game has concluded with it.

It’s not in the rules, but it is in the clarifications. But to reiterate, the Eliminator kill is an action, yes.

Aname Plees: Hey Ford you still around Aname Plees: Mind making me kill myself tonight if I think about killing anybody? XD Ford Prefect: Sure thing, was planning on it. I’ll always take requests to redirect any murderous thoughts you might have : ) Ford Prefect: Btw where did everyone else go Aname Plees: Dunno, maybe they’re asleep Ford Prefect: Hey that’s not a bad idea : P Ford Prefect: What could possibly go wrong with us all sleeping with at least one murderer trying to kill Elend lol Aname Plees: Ikr Aname Plees: Well, I’m to bed. Night Ford Prefect: Night Aname Plees has left the chat Ford Prefect: Fynn I see you lurking there. You can talk now Ford Prefect: There’s nobody around but us lol Ford Prefect: Fynn like seriously Ford Prefect: All the Mistborn are dead now Ford Prefect: are you gonna help Elend or what Ford Prefect: FYNN Fynn Seidel: I have nothing more to say to you. You all tried to kill Vin. You failed. So I’ll fail you until I get evidence you’ll stop working against me. You’ll see no more of me until later. Fynn Seidel has left the chat Ford Prefect: ...okay then lol Ford Prefect: Talk in the morning. Night all Nobody was attacked. Day Eight has begun. This cycle will last the full 48 hours, until 9 PM EDT (-4:00 UTC) on Saturday 8 June. However, in an effort to speed the game along in its final stages, I am implementing the following rules modifications: 1. I have been extremely lenient with my two-cycle inactivity filter. However, it’s too late in the game for people to be MIA—it takes away too much of the discussion that should be prevalent with smaller playercounts. As such, any player who does not post by the end of the Night turn will die. @Lumgol @Furamirionind @Snipexe @Ax's Boyfriend @Hemalurgic Headshot @Straw @Coop772 You have all been notified. Please remain active participants in discussion. And my thanks to Lum and Fura for actually bothering to comment on something last Night. 2. If a majority of living players vote for it, I will shorten any Day turn by 24 hours. As such, this cycle may end at 9 PM EDT on Friday 7 June should the majority of you will it so. Please remember that PMs, as always, are closed at Day. Good luck to all. Player List:

Cycle is closed.

Dockson motioned his men forward, beckoning at them wordlessly to drift up to the deserted rooftop of Keep Lekal. Supposedly, the Mistborn had been using this as their lair the entire time they’d been in the city. Dockson was sceptical, but the fact remained that this Keep was Elend’s best shot at finding Vin. His Hazekillers followed silently, well trained to keep noise to an absolute minimum. He doubted it mattered much to one burning Tin—then again, he could easily check that through other means. Holding up a fist, and giving the Hazekillers time to form up behind him, Dockson peered from behind the parapet. Vin was there, kneeling on the cold stone. She looked to have been crying, and given her emotional speech earlier in the day, Dox could hardly blame her. His heart reached out to the poor skaa girl—she’d been so thoroughly mired in the political muck of Luthadel he feared she may never find her way out. Still, his orders were clear. He raised a hand quickly, and another one was quickly raised in acknowledgement on the other side of the rooftop. A deafening clang was heard, the tremor caused by a set of cymbals made specifically to disorient Tineyes, and as Vin cried out in shock and pain, falling to the floor, Dockson quickly moved his Hazekillers in around her. Shaking her head, she flicked the hair out of her eyes defiantly and stared up at the ring. “I suppose you’ve come to finish what you began earlier, then,” she sighed. “Well, make it quick.” “Quick?” Dockson was taken aback. “Vin, we’re here to bring you home!” “Home where?” she retorted. “Home,” Dockson repeated. “To Elend, to Keep Venture. Where you’ll be safe from this madness. Safe from the political stupidity of this whole rusting city!” He kicked a coin Vin had presumably dropped, watching as it hopskipped over the ramparts and fell to the ground beneath. “This is the first time you can break free from us, when you’re not tied to anyone, aren’t obligated to anyone. Don’t you see, Vin? You, me, we were never meant to be politicians or leaders or anything else other than a crew working towards a goal. Let the nobility, let Elend deal with this madness, with the koloss. You need to rest from this.” “I can’t, Dox,” she sighed. “I’m needed. Everywhere, and I can’t be everywhere. I thought...well, I thought Zane and I...could do something important here. That we could cleanse Luthadel of corruption. But...we missed the point. Dox, there’s a whole conflict outside even this mess...I can’t let up, can’t rest, as you put it.” She looked up, eyes red-rimmed. “The world needs me too much for any of that.” “The world can wait, Vin,” Dox implored. “Please. Come back with me. If you won’t continue with Elend, I don’t care. Just come back. Perhaps the city needs you, but it needs to see you back with us, with Elend, if it wants to preserve hope these coming days.” He paused, looking into her eyes. “Please,” he repeated. Vin wavered. “They have Elend already,” she said. “Let them look to him as their guide. What do they want with me—a rogue, a skaa, a vigilante?” “The Ascendant Warrior?” Dockson cut in. “The woman who slew the Lord Ruler, who saved this city once already? You’re a hero, Vin. But most importantly, you’re missed. The greatest service you can give Luthadel is to come back with us and regain your strength. You’ll accomplish nothing in this state.” He reached out his hand. Vin hesitated, a brief look of indecision etched onto her features, then reached out and grabbed it. “With you, then,” she answered gravely. “And there’ll be no returning this time.” Mailliw73 was lynched! He was Vin! Vin possessed the item: OreSeur. OreSeur: This Kandra allows the user to target one player each Night; the owner learns who their target performed their action on. Passive metals will not show up to this scan. Vote Count: Maill (5): Maill, Lum, Fura, Ark, Straw Night 7 has begun! It will end in about 22-23 hours, on Thursday 6 June at 9 PM EDT (-4:00 UTC). PMs remain open during the Night. Please abide by all restrictions on their use. Good luck! Player List:

The Day had broke in conflict, strife, As voices loud their wills imposed, Till some, seeking to take a life, Would kill, and then The cycle closed. Night followed Day, the players knew Yet certainty seemed distant, small, For though they were but a mere few, The troll GM Would frustrate all.

I’ll add you to the LG waitlist.

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The cycle is over! Day turn will be up in an hour or two. Please stop PMing.

A little over three hours remain in this cycle. Please send in and finalise your orders before 9 PM EDT.

Zane was not Mad. The longer he stayed in Luthadel, the more certain he became that God was not a broken part of his head. God noticed people before he did sometimes, and knew things he didn’t. No one else could hear God, but God couldn’t hear his thoughts. God had wanted him to kill everyone he had ever seen, except Vin. Zane hadn’t know who Vin was when he first saw her, and had actually been looking forward to a proper challenge with another Mistborn when his father’s army had marched on Luthadel. But he had seen her, and had waited for the order, either from his father or from God, and neither had said a word about her. That night, Zane had left the camp and explored Luthadel. He looked for as many new people as he could, looked at as many people as possible, and God had told him to kill each one of them without fail. He had asked God about it, and God had stayed silent. God never remarked on Vin. He was scared of her. Zane worked hard to earn her favour. He murdered Cett’s minions, he demonstrated that he cared deeply about the things she cared about, he proved himself stronger in every way than his half brother, and finally she had come with him. He was timid, afraid of driving her away. He knew how others saw him, called him Zane the Mad. He worked hard to appear Sane and normal in all his dealings with her. Everything he did was strictly rational, everything he did was calm and controlled. He was not a savage, though he had been once. He was not insane, though others said otherwise. He was not a monster, though he wasn’t sure if anyone truly was. As the two of them carefully hunted down and killed Lekal’s supporters, he searched through records and lore, looking for anything that could be causing the voice in his head. God discouraged him constantly, but he persevered. With Vin’s help, he continued. And then a new voice spoke in his head, but Vin heard it too. The enemy speaks to those whose soul is pierced by Metal. Vin, do not trust those with spikes. And finally, Zane understood. “Somehow, Kelsier has become what the Skaa say he is, a god of some sort.” Vin was pacing back and forth on the secluded rooftop. “He can speak to those of us who have been hemalurgic spikes, like the inquisitors do.” She brushed the earring she had worn for as long as he had know her. “But he isn’t the only one who knows how.” She hesitated, glancing from him to her hands. “I think my brother Reen can as well. I’ve heard his voice ever since he abandoned me, and I know he died soon afterwards.” Zane rubbed his back, feeling at the thick circle of Steel protruding from his Spine. “Who died to make your Earring?” Vin shrugged. “Reen always told me that it was my sister. He found me covered in blood, my mother had killed her and given me my earring and proclaimed me queen of the world. Yours?” “I don’t know. I’ve always had it, and my father told me to ignore it. They tried to remove it once, and I nearly died. Apparently that it was caused me to Snap.” He didn’t remember it, but also didn’t remember ever not having Allomancy.” I Anointed you my Priest Zane. I knew you would be a powerful servant. He didn’t flinch at the voice. It too had been with him his whole life. And apparently the two were connected. “If we remove our Spikes, the Dead won’t be able to control us. Our Demons won’t be able to talk to us.” Vin nodded, coming to stand before him. You will lose a great deal of your power if you do. I gave you your power to serve me Zane! “I am a free man, and you are not God!” He snarled out to the side. Vin stepped back, her hands reflexively going towards her daggers. He wanted to be free of this. She could save him. This was how, this was how he could be free of God forever. “Vin, please, I need you to remove my Spike. I don’t want to hear the voices.” “We’re being hunted Zane, if we do it now, we could very well be caught without the ability to flee.” Listen to her Zane! Hunt them all down and Kill them first! That is why you were born! “No!” She shrunk down away from herself, “No, Vin, please that wasn’t at you, I, please I’m sorry.” He held out his hands to her. “Please Vin, I can’t stand it anymore, take it out of me.” NO! Zane didn’t react this time, and Vin slowly stepped forward. “Alright. Sit down and take your shirt off.” Don’t do this Zane! Zane turned around, and slowly knelt down. This is a terrible idea, you will die! He grabbed the bottom of his shirt and pulled it off above his head. Very few people had ever seen his spike, and none had had a positive reaction to it. Your only purpose in life is to Kill Zane, you are not even a man! He felt Vin’s hand brush down his spine, around the spike, and come to a stop. “This will hurt Zane.” You will be less than everyone if you do this! Your powers will be gone! You will be a wretched human again! Vin gripped his spike. He burned Bronze and felt the pewter pulses coming from her. He burned Pewter, and prepared to burn Duraluminum. “I’m ready.” You are Not! “Okay.” Zane gripped the edge of the roof, and felt Vin burn Duralumin. She yanked. NO! Zane screamed. He burned Duralumin and went through all of his pewter in a flash. The pain all left him, but the hole remained, barely healed at all. He fell forward, and Vin was at his side. She pressed something up to his lips, and he felt pewter dust begin to slide down his throat. He desperately burned it up as it reached his stomach, and the pain receded. “Are you there God?” He waited. Vin stared at him anxiously. No voice. He began to laugh, his whole body shaking with pain, and joy. Sobs wracked him as for the first time, he felt whole. He felt the blood spilling from the hole in his body, but Vin began to wrap a bandage around him. He burned Tin. Everything felt so new. Like the end of an Ashfall. Everything was brighter. Vin’s touch was softer. The stone underneath him was more solid. The voices from the floor below were more united. Oh. “Vin, below us.” He looked over his shoulder at her. Her head was cocked, and her beautiful hair streamed to one side. “I hear them. Can you stand?” Zane grabbed her shoulder for support, and tried to pull himself up. His legs gave way, and he fell to the floor. “Urgh, no. I’ll pull myself along.” The door on the far end of the roof slammed open, and 5 figures, clad in leather and holding thick wooden shields and canes strode out onto the roof. Vin cursed, and pointed up and too their left. “There’s an anchor up there. Let’s go.” She shot away, pulling on Iron. Zane burned Iron, found the anchor, and pulled. He barely got half his body off the floor before he collapsed a foot further than he had been. He blinked, and tried again, flaring his Iron. The Hazekillers were running towards him now. “Zane! Come on!” “I can’t Vin!” He flared his Iron harder, and dragged himself all the way to the end of the roof, smashing his barely responding body into the ramparts. Vin landed in front of him, daggers out. “Riot them then. Make them afraid. I’ll take them.” He could hear the tremors in her voice. More Hazekillers and soldiers were still coming out the far door. There were close to 2 dozen already spreading out around the two of them. Zane smiled. It felt good to smile. And it was an entirely new good. It wasn’t the thrill of an upcoming battle, but the joy of a coming end. “No, Vin, leave. Get to Terris. Thank you for everything.” She didn’t look at him. “I won’t abandon you. I’ve been on both sides of that far too often.” He could hear the tears coming. Zane knew that not all his power came from the Spike. He was better than that. Always had been. And Vin was still wearing her metals. He still had Steel. He inhaled, and then burned it, flared it, ignited it all at once, and pushed. She was above him, and before him, at a perfect angle. She yelped once as he flung her airborne, far from him, far from the earth that didn’t deserve her. Far enough away that she wouldn’t be able to die trying to protect him. His smile never faded as the Hazekillers came forward. “Goodbye, Vin,” he whispered, and the ring closed. _Stick_ was lynched! She was Zane the Unstable Mistborn! Vote Count: Stick (5): Lum, Fura, Snip, HH, Ada Elend Venture (2): Ark, Stick Night 6 has begun! It will end in about 22-23 hours on Monday 3 June at 9 PM EDT (-4:00 UTC). PMs remain open during the Night. Please abide by all restrictions on their use. Good luck! Player List:

The Day is over! Is the game?

@StrikerEZ Do you mind giving a time zone for your rollover and for the conclusion of signups? I’ll join this as Serdig Darillid, an officer who opposes incarceration on the grounds that the death penalty is a much more effective way of dealing with the high rates of recidivism.