Ymawgat

She better not be? I can't see the point of killing her off for good. It's like Brandon said in one of his fantasy writing lectures: people who picked up stormlight picked it up to read a book where the main characters don't die for good (at least not until the final book), so perma-killing a character who so clearly deserves a radiant arc isn't going to be very interesting or satisfying for anyone still reading? also like (mistsborn era 2 spoilers)

I like the idea of Venli becoming a bondsmith. She already wears envoy form (which grants spiritual adhesion/connection). She has things in her past she regrets, just like Dalinar. Frees up the Willshaper order for Eshonai.

Oh wow I completely forgot about that chart. The fact that (like you said) the evil-bondsmiths and evil-truthwatchers don't seem to be connected to anything also pokes a pretty massive hole in my theory as well huh.

thanks! Yeah this is how I thought it would work, I think I mentioned in parsing in the original post that smokeform sounds like lightweaving and nightform sounds like the truthwatcher future vision stuff - which might also be a manifestation of illumination (or close enough)? Also for the record Oduim is technically outnumbered two-to-one by Honour and Cultivation, so it would make a weird kind of sense if his ground troops each had access to half the surges

It's possible that the be all end all purpose of the death rattles is to efficiently interrupt or scramble the future sight of others (such as truthwatchers on a battlefield), by using very low energy prophecies. Consider how the diagram is meant to be in part prophetic, and Renarin (someone with some form of future vision) acts as a gigantic hole in it. Consider in mistborn how

This is something that's been eating at me recently that I think I have an answer to? Bit of background, we saw several different kinds of voidbringing in Oathbringer: Envoy form, which allows Venli to speak different languages, something Dalinar achieves through the surge of adhesion. An un-named form that allows listeners to do something that looks like to the surge of gravitation, fused did this as well. Something that looked like Abrasion from a fused who fought Lift. Something that looked a lot like Cohesion from Amethyst!Amaram. Something that looked a lot like Tension from another fused. ....and from the Words of Radiance epigraphs we're also told about several other forms of power: Nightform, which is described as giving Truthwatcher like visions. Decayform, which seems to be focused around destruction. Smokeform, which is described as allowing hiding and "slipping between men", which to me very strongly implies a lightweaver like power. So far it seems like void-binding is heavily based off of several different manifestations of surgebinding, just as the Radiant orders were based off of the Heralds. However, if this is true it does beg the question: What surge is the lightning of Stormform based off? IMO, it's based off some manifestation of the surge of Division. Division is called the surge of destruction and decay, and we've directly seen it used exactly once, when Malata burns a table: Now, considering that surges don't always manifest as the same ability for each order (and that smokeform and nightform are already most likely to be based off the surge of illumination), could it possible that Skybreaker Division works by separating electrons from their atoms, and then creating lighting by letting them crash back together, and that this is how Stormform regals use lightning? Consider also: 1. That the names of the knight radiant orders (at least those that we know the powers of) are actually very descriptive of their powers, and it's hard to think of a method of "skybreaking" that doesn't involve thunder and lightning. 2. Vorin teachings might contain some reference to Skybreakers using lightning, as we're given loads of indications that Vorinism holds hidden meaning (for example this being a common theme across the cosmere), but specifically in that Stormlight can only multiply existing skill, not grant new skill, and ascending to the halls multiplies the power of one's calling, and we're given this quote: 3. How sick it would be if Szeth could throw lightning bolts? (also btw if anyone could tell me how to flair my post as a theory like Feather's Renarin post that would be just swell)

I don't think Brandon will go for this, I'm 90% sure we've had several descriptions of Syl with her safehand uncovered but I can't remember a single time Kal has noted that in a sexual or even romantic way, so I think he only sees her as just another asexual spren.

Add in that the metal that spren become as a blade is essentially a godmetal and you'll probably run into some other issues. Ok fair point. Theory cancelled I guess. (Adolin will always be a Stoneward in my heart.)

Sure, but like, it clearly doesn't work exactly the same for every shardworld, and I'm arguing that on Roshar you need a specific kind of crack in the soul a specific order (or near enough, in the case of Teft, Lopen, and Ym if he was an Edgedancer). This is a much better argument, and I guess is a point against my theory. Yeah I definitely agree it's a mired subject. I still think some kind of partial transformation is possible though, especially with the stuff we know about forgery from the Emperor's soul. So what are Jasnah, Shallan, and Ash then? Why can't they soulcast or change Maya?

I'ver read the Emperor's soul, but isn't it evidence for my argument and not yours? I'm not aware of any evidence to support the rest of the stuff you said. Jasnah only makes reference to using investiture to bribe an object into changing.

Ok I feel like a pedantic jerk for continuing to argue about this but It's called Soulcasting, and like, what else is Shallan talking to when she talks to the stick in Words of Radiance? Again like, you can't just say this as an argument, what is your evidence? Ok cool, I guess it's more subjective then. Thanks for doing the work in looking for that.

That's...fair I guess? But I just so far haven't heard an explanation for how it could be personal to him? What is you evidence for this?

I guess that's a fair point. My only real counter argument to this would be like, if it's going to take a miracle too happen no matter what, why not make it a miracle that better suits Adolin? 1: I gave a good chunk of evidence in my original post. 2: Edgedancer and Truthwatcher are orders that are next to each other, so they're bound to be more similar right? 3: What evidence do we have that "Radiant breaking" works the same way as snapping? I was under the impression that this was how soulcasting worked?

1. I'm not arguing that he doesn't show Edgedancer traits, I just don't think those things are personal enough to him for them to result in oaths. 2. I don't think being broken so that you can become Radiant is the same thing as being snapped?

Ok one last thing: No they haven't? I literally haven't seen any evidence to suggest this on this thread or elsewhere.

Ok so I think we might just be arguing in circles at this point but, Kaladin and Dalinar can hardly be called atypical. Kaladin is a natural leader and the only part of it that's different is his refusal to take the shardblade from Helaran's corpse. Likewise the only **different** thing about Dalinar is the fact that he doesn't fight much anymore. I think you maybe missed the point I was trying to make in my original post? Caring about others isn't the main factor when it comes to ideals being accepted, what is important about each ideal we've seen is that they were each personal to the character making them, and each one was very deeply related to the person's trauma or "spiritual cracks". See the original post for examples of this. I don't agree with you on this at all. Lift clearly has trauma related to her oaths. I may be guilty of doing what I accused you of doing and just assuming that evidence to support my point will show up in future books but I do honestly think we'll see that Lift has brought her demons with her out of Rall Elorim, and that they are at least as bad as Kaladin's.

Thankyou!!!!

Hey can I quickly just get a formal explanation of the site rules (or where I can find one)? Because I'm honestly confused as to what is allowed and what isn't. Like is swearing aloud?

Soulcasters are made up of gems, gem settings, and chains, so maybe it's a chain that could become/was part of a soulcaster? Or one of those regrowth devices?

Oh storm you're right! Brandon must be doing this so that in the next book plate will seem like a fresh concept.

Do you mean used by a radiant? Because Dalinar uses shardplate before becoming a Radiant.

I guess that's fair. I guess I would still say that Adolin being an Edgedancer wouldn't be more interesting that Lift being a Radiant at all. Isn't that the equivalent of saying "the evidence might exist in the future"? 1: Adolin doesn't have any prejudice either. 2: being a street urchin doesn't necessarily make you care more, it can also make you think only about your own survival. 3: saying that her ideals are "only a formality" misses the point of radiant ideals altogether. Kaladin is "used" to protecting people, but also used to failing, and used to his actions not having any affect. The reason his second ideal is so important is that it's a commitment to trying anyway, and it clearly takes him a long time and effort for him to get to that point. The same is true for Lift: she is incredibly used to the universe just, not caring about small people, (and it's clear that her spiritual cracks/trauma is wrapped up in this too) but she still makes that commitment anyway, even though it puts her in mortal danger at the time. She goes against everything she's ever been taught about survival in saying her ideals.

Thats.... my point - Lopen could only say the windrunner oaths when it was personal to him (and his spiritual cracks). There's nothing Adolin has that makes the Edgedancer oaths personal to him, so he doesn't fit that order. Also, everyone on Roshar says that objects have spren, so that's what I'm going to believe. Ok so I've been thinking about this comment and though I don't think I'll be able to change your mind I would just like to address on a couple of things: 1: The whole "it's not just street urchins that can be this" thing is like, the opposite of the point Sanderson was trying to make with Lift: he said somewhere (can't find the quote just now) that Lift is interesting to him because she goes against the concept of paladins/knights only being blonde, noble young men, they can also be small Latinx teenagers. For this reason an Edgedancer Adolin seems almost counterproductive to me? The Edgedancer story is the other way around. 2: Even if we say that Lighteyes can and should be Edgedancers I still don't think Adolin fits - he doesn't seem to have personal reasons for swearing Lift's ideals. 3: Lift choosing to remember and listen is in no way a small learning curve, it's an incredibly noble and difficult commitment for her to make.

I don't think so, "contest of champions" is champions - plural. Also like, the objective of the contest is to win time from Odium, and the point where this makes the most sense is after book 5 - where we already know there's going to be a 15 year time skip. I think he left the battle of Thaylen City because he was just spooked by honour's perpendicularity showing up. I'm pretty sure that that was already part of the oathpact? So far we've not really seen Odium act directly (not acting through an unmade, spren, the everstorm, Dalinar's visions).

Thanks, I guess the main part of my argument is more that I don't think his reasons for his Edgedancer traits aren't because of his brokenness, while the reasons for his Stoneward traits still might be? You bring up some points I hadn't thought of though, and I agree this is subjective. I feel like something like this will happen. Like I said (somewhere) in the original post: I doubt Adolin will be a normal radiant no matter what happens. Just curious, but what is your evidence for this? Have you read the Emperor's soul?