humanchaos

I just can't seriously read/hear (audiobook) that line and feel that losing those memories/breaths was any part of Wit's plan. "True terror" is not having a planned for action happen to you, no matter how frightening it is. You don't feel "true terror" if the expected happens. You also don't suddenly begin to think about the implications of losing the breathes/memories if this was planned for. Wit's opening monologue does make it seem that me may have been planning something, but I'd say this was the red herring more than the breaths if there is one. I mean, on the second pass, his monologue falls apart, just like his plans.

I agree that it reads pretty clearly that Wit's terror was real. The description was from the narrator, not Wit himself, so it is completely reliable. Odium also says that he can't see Wit's mind, but he can see the memories stored in "this other investiture". Also, not only being able to see the "investiture", but detecting that they contained memories, implies that he'd be able to see if the coins were similarly invested. With that, I believe Wit's contemplation and worry that the breaths holding his memories would be "destroyed," as it was put, was real, unexpected, and a legitimate fear that Wit did not anticipate nor want to happen. To me, the mention of Wit losing his perfect pitch will be a vital flaw in Odium's rash actions of tampering with the breaths. Odium did not recognize that they were "breaths," but merely "other investiture." He is nearly certainly unaware of the effects of breaths and the heightenings. He likely unwittingly knocked Wit down from the second heightening, losing his perfect pitch, which will clue him that something happened, along with all the other clues he noticed himself during the encounter. The one thing that makes me still worry is the last part: Those thoughts don't seem like they originated from Wit himself, but are highly influenced by Odium's touch. It seems like Odium planted something that will be effecting Wit's mind unless/until it is discovered and rooted out.

I agree. Stormlight and Voidlight seem best described as investiture in a gas-like state, so it would make sense to have a very negligible effect on the solid version. Now if you could find a way to take regular stormlight/voidlight, and then condense it into a solid state.... now THEN you'd have a real breakthrough. You'd be able to create your own sprenless shardblades and such.

Plot twist, There is another 1 year time skip after book 4 and we only get to hear about the aftermath of the contest lol

So I came across this WoB yesterday and noticed 10 more pages I didn't want to sort through to see if this has been shared or not, but turns out brokeness isn't an exclusive means of forming a nahel bond. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/175-oathbringer-houston-signing/#e8418 edit: (and now I see above this very WoB linked/quoted at least 3 times lol)

Since the radiants abandoned the tower, I doubt they would have just left those things behind. It seems that from the interlude chapter, Aimia is where the soulcaster fabrials originated from and would like house the answers possibly for the other surge fabrials. But apparently this knowledge is dangerous, hence the reason a Dysian (person made of cremlings) is actively guarding it.

I’m thinking that he is either referring to adonalsium, or more likely, hinting that he had help in killing Honor.

I think it was a combination of then realizing that they were invaders, plus their power could destroy the world, plus all the fused were dead and trapped in damnation, plus all remaining singers were now parshman in slaveform. With apparently no more desolations coming, there was no more need for the radiants powers, which were dangerous, and with Honor raving, it seems like it was a choice for all of them. Like realizing the world is peaceful so agreeing to a total nuclear disarmament.

If Honor does get reformed, I think it will play out quite differently from mistborn, and would likely be a foreshadowing of the reformation of adonalsium. Another alternative to the reformation if adonalsium could be the proper combinations of shards that result in a more neutral version that is less destructive? But I think that would not make for a great story. Odiums cry of “ We killed you!” Makes me think that he is either referring to adonalsium, or he had help killing Honor. More likely the former, and his fear here shows that it may actually be possible to reforge the shard.

I vote for the unmade theory, as I’m believing more and more that the unmade are embodiments of emotion, since Another name for Odium is Passion. Depression, aggression, gluttony, fear, etc...

So then are the various magic systems dependent upon the planet and predate the shards? Cause I thought that each shard was responsible for ya own magic system. The surges are of honor and the old magic from cultivation or something like that. This confused me as well when it said that they used surges to destroy their old planet. I think that the story we get is only partially true. Why would Honor side with an invading human force? It would make sense if there were more to the story.

Her advantage was much more then just the access to large amounts of stormlight, She mentions how it should have been much more difficult for some of her soulcasting, and both Jasnah and Shallan mention how they can see both physical and spiritual realms at the same time without any effort. The presence of the perpendicularity, and thus the merging of the 3 realms, absolutely effected the ease of soulcasting in the battle, giving Jasnah an extreme advantage.

I don't think so. The banks that existed in Shadesmar contained some of these perfect gemstones and that is how they got their money. Transfer the stormlight from a flawed gemstone into the perfect stone, then get paper credits in return. I doubt a Shadesmar bank would carry around dawnshards and go unnoticed.

I agree. I think that the part with him summoning Maya as a sharblade in under 10 heartbeats was huge! Though it happening right at the end of the battle might have pushed it out of his mind to question it. I also wonder, if he summons Maya again, will it remain the same? was it only a special case for her to come in less then 10, or will she now always come in less the 10? If it is the later, then I assume during the next book Adolin will notice it, and it will become a topic of research and be a main plot point. If it was only a special case, then the revival will possibly be more of a surprise moment.

Yeah, I think there just some details we are missing. If Brandon ever makes it out my way for a book signing I'm gonna ask him about this.

Thanks for supplying the quotes there. I'll concede that it does seem pretty clear the the nahel bond requires cracks in the spritweb for the spren to fill. The Shallan story just still seems odd to me as we know it now. It just seems like she started manifesting as a child, and all of the brokenness we see now came after the bond had already been established.

Your quote unfortunately includes the phrase from Brandon "this is only one way to describe it - its not the only way - might not be one hundred percent accurate" The supporting evidence to the contrary of the need to be broken lies in a few places. One of them is Warbreaker. Breathe is breathe and can be transferred to anybody regardless, which would assume a complete disconnect with the need to be broken. Also, the bead that was used to make the first mistborns could be used on anybody and did not require anyone to snap. And again, the characters in White Sand seem to be born with an innate ability and are tested as children to see if they are able to, and how powerful they will be. And I can't get past the fact that Shallan killed her mom as a child with pattern as a shardblade. Her dad didn't get bad until after the death of her mom, who had no reason to want Shallan dead until AFTER she started exhibiting her powers.

So I don't agree that you have to be "broken enough" to form the bond. Everyone jumps to Kalladin and Shallan, but Shallan obviously started her bond WAY before she was broken. She was a kid, life wasn't so bad, then her mom saw her already showing the signs, and then gets her friends to try to kill her, to which she was killed by pattern as a shardblade. And I also remember Syl referencing her remembering Kal pretty early on before Tien died. And what about Jasnah? Her recollection of the night her father died shows signs that the spren were already interested in her, and I wouldn't call her broken. My theory is that being broken is only correlated to the bond, but not a causation or requirement. The most important aspect of the bond is the Ideals. The squires who had trouble gaining access to stormlight only had success after having a conversation that helped them acquire the correct mindset to follow the ideals. The Ideals are what matters, though being "broken" and overcoming a deep struggle that correlates with the Ideal probably results in a more sure and resolute commitment and bond.

The problem I see with this is that we don't actually know much about the first desolation. All we know for sure is that Humans were not native to Roshar, and they brought Odium with them when the Parshendi let them come. It seems like Shinovar was given to them initially as a place that they could maintain an ecosystem similar to their native land. We also know that at some point, the spren began to bond with the humans, and that it made the Parshendi feel betrayed. For all we know, the listeners/singers could have been the first instigators. Yes the humans brought Odium, and therefore the void and the desolation, but it doesn't mean they were the aggressors. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, it's just not clear at the moment.

This is what we know about the unmade, at least according to the book. Yelig-nar: not much known except he's responsible for the transformations regarding swallowing gemstones Sja-anat: corrupts spren, usually lesser spren but we now know it can be more, like the spren of the oathgate for example. Also she seems to be the one referred to by Mraize about changing sides. She warned Shallan about the oathgate, sent them to Shadesmar rather then killing them, and lied to the others about their location to give them time to escape. Nergaoul: Responsible for the thrill. This one isn't sapient and effected all sides equally. Also allowed for men fully under its influence to be open to bonding with voidspren as seen during the battle of Thaylen Field Moelach: Responsible for granting visions of the future, mostly death rattles. Though it is now confirmed that the future as seen in these visions is not set in stone, as seen when Renarin saw his death and his father being made into Odium's champion, neither of which actually happened. Ashertmarn (Heart of the Revel): This one causes a lust for indulgence, confronted by Shallan in Kholinar. Ba-Ado-Mishram: Not much is known, from Hessi's Mythica, we know that it is said "she was keen of mind, a highprincess among he enemy forces, their commander during some of the Desolations." Chemoarish (Dustmother): Also, practically nothing known yet except that she is not the Nightwatcher. Re-Shephir (Midnight Mother): Responsible for the monsters attacking the village in one of Danlinar's visions. Also for the copycat murders in Urithiru. Confronted and scared away by Shallan, and has some kind of weakness for lightweavers, evident in the fact that it had previously been captured and trapped by one in the past These are the 8 listed from the pre chapter excerpts of Hessi's Mythica. It also states that the number 9 is an unholy number often associated with the enemy. I do not recall a mention of 10 orders of voidbinding, and my theory is that the voidbinding is similar to, but not exact correlated to surgebinding. Examples are the fused that Moash killed was like a windrunner, but the voidlight did not heal her, As contrasted to the one that used lightweaving to sneak into the bank and try to steal the Kings Drop, that one was able to heal. Along those lines, I also think that if there are only 9 types of voidbinding instead of 10, then the surgebinder order that is least likely to have a voidbinder counterpart would the be Bondsmiths. And another evidence that can be used to confirm the number 9 for unmade, would be the nine shadows surrounding the champion. 9 shadows were seen by Dalinar and Renarin, so that would confirm to me at least that the number 9 is Odiums number.