Calyx

I agree the stone is clearly tied to Tien, which is wrapped up in Kaladin's failure to protect and the scene with Tarah where it is specifically called out that he lives for the dead. Shallan reminds Kaladin of Tien... but the thing is, Kaladin needs to let Tien go. I suspect his fourth ideal is to accept that he cannot protect everyone (there is the Windrunner quote from a gem in the archive asking something along the lines of 'am I really not supposed to want to protect people?' when considering the fourth ideal), and how can he possibly ever do that if he gets into a relationship with a woman who reminds him of Tien - his first and greatest failure - who also happens to be on the front lines? As a side note, Kaladin is not my favorite character - but he seems to be for many others. Why do so many people want to subject him to the misery that a relationship with Shallan (who is my favorite character) would certainly entail?

Not that I can recall, in either Edgedancer or Oathbringer.

I am curious if the Ghostbloods have anything to do with Autonomy. Mraize seems to have artifacts from Autonomy-controlled worlds (sand from Taldain, which is supposedly a very difficult place for worldhoppers to access, and also an Aviar from First of the Sun). If Autonomy were to pay attention to Roshar, she likely would want it to be a perpetual stalemate (I assume); this explains the Ghostbloods seeming cross purposes, and why they are willing to occasionally help/hinder but never truly engage.

I think the key hurdle to overcome is that the lightweaver needs to be able to imagine it. People on Roshar won't be able to imagine a gamma ray - or even light hurting people beyond just being really bright.

Ah. Excellent.

The thing is, Mraize doesn't need to know any of those things - he just has to come across the bird (which I think nest by the lake that is presumably the perpendicularity?) and notice it gives him some power. He doesn't need to know why. I think it is plausible that Mraize has an aviar, but certainly far from proven.

So why is Hoid so nice to Shallan? She is my favorite character, and someone needed to hug her, so I'm glad - their scenes together were great, particularly 'The Girl Who Looked Up.' But why Shallan?

My impression when reading this section is that Shallan is rapidly switching between personas - including her complete one, which she definitely adopts infrequently throughout the book (like confronting the unmade in the tower). Adolin is able to recognize as she switches personas, and I believe that this was who she was when she was wooing him in WoR, which was before she really started fracturing. I'm sure their relationship would be challenging - honestly, any relationship involving Shallan is going to be a challenge - but I do think Adolin is good for her. He grounds Shallan and doesn't push her, which is probably exactly what she needs to resolve her problems, because she needs to resolve those problems on her own. Kaladin would be insufferable in this role, always trying to fix things - both counterproductive for Shallan and unfairly painful to Kaladin, who really has enough struggles.

I hope Moash doesn't somehow end up killing Kaladin's father (or any other members of this family). I feel like Kaladin's suffering is already enough, and that would just be too much.

I've seen this point a few times, and I can't figure out why people think that Shallan doesn't tell Adolin why she chooses him - she goes on a fairly lengthy tirade listing the reasons why she likes him.

I think when the Stormfather is talking about the Recreance, he said that Honor had changed and agree with the Knights Radiant when they brought destruction of their world up. So Honor was still alive then, but implied to be pretty clearly dying.

I believe Azure is mentioned as appearing around 30. Of course, Azure is Vivenna, making her a world hopper. This brings up several questions: Do we know the relative time between Warbreaker and Oathbringer? How long has Vivenna been on Roshar? Has Vivenna achieved the fifth heightening? Vivenna obviously has a decent amount of breath, and certainly seems to use awakenings; her cloak was wrapped around her arm while fighting, and she asked the Honorspren on the ship to cut cloth into presumably human shape before the fused attacked (one a side note, I would have really liked to see that battle). I think it is likely that she has the fifth heightening, making her ageless. Then there are questions about why world hoppers from Nalthis are on Roshar. Certainly Nalthians are relatively common for world hoppers, as the lighthouse keeper initially assumes that Kaladin - who is invested - is Nalthian (asking him what heightening he is). Vivenna is on Roshar to find Nightblood (presumably to ensure it can't be used - I think Nightblood tells Szeth that Vivenna never drew him even once when she carried him). Was Nightblood brought to Roshar by Vasher? Why? If so, how was it lost and why is Vasher just a swordmaster? Vivenna is a character that I really love, and it was great to see how she has grown between Warbreaker and Oathbringer. She is now clearly formidable, which is where I feel that her arc was heading. Now that Szeth - who seems fairly responsible, to be honest - has nightblood, what do people think Vivenna will do when she catches up? Will she come into conflict with Dalinar et al? What role will she and Vasher play in the broader Stormlight series?

I don't like this explanation, because that means there is literally no way to fight Odium. Options are: Use stormlight, become kick-chull, defeat desolations, Odium wins Do not use stormlight, desolation kills everyone, Odium wins This doesn't really seem to fit with power usage in the Cosmere. An example from Oathbringer would be Shallan's illusions near the end - the book mentions each illusions death returning the power to Shallan so she could create another. Odium didn't get it. I have seen many people claiming that the reason the Radiants broke their oaths was because the discovered that humans were not native to Roshar, but that wasn't my reading at all. It seemed clear to me that they broke their oaths because they discovered that maybe they (surgebinders) were responsible for destroying the planet they originally came from. With no more desolations (as far as they knew), I think they decided that surgebinding was the greatest danger to the planet. They broke their oaths to stop surgebinding, not out of some misguided sense of regret for a conquest that happened thousands of years before (which would be stupid - I can't believe that every radiant of almost every order would make that choice). I think the big mystery is where in the cosmere the humans came from, how it was really destroyed, and why Odium came with them. I think its possible that Humans came from a world that Odium destroyed (maybe Threnody?) and the past is simply misinterpreted. I doubt that the humans worshipped Odium when they came, and I don't see how the gods of the parshendi and humans could have so neatly switched.

Yeah, there is no way Moash comes out of this looking good. I can't wait until someone kills him.

Actually I do think that Wikim and Renarin could become friends, and hope they do. Wikim is probably the best of her brothers.

Well yes, and that is why Elhokar died. And his death is deserved - but it is also tragic. For him to die right at the point when he finally gains self awareness and starts becoming a better person is a tragedy, despite the fact that over the first two books he was more or less a selfish elitist whiny prick. It is always possible to start being a better person, and everyone deserves the chance to redeem themselves. Elhokar's death was a tragedy precisely because he was so close to becoming a sympathetic character, but I do think the story is better for it.

Shallan is my favorite character (other than possibly Pattern, and you can't have one without the other). While I was disappointed in many of her decisions in Oathbringer - namely, not sharing information or problems with anyone who could have helped, i.e. Jasnah, Navani, Adolin - I think she is on the path towards self control and confidence, which is great! Her persistent determination was what made me fall in love with her in the first book, and once she gets a handle on her personal problems she will be unstoppable. I really love her relationships with Jasnah and Hoid; Hoid seems to treat her almost as a daughter, and is certainly nicer to her than he is to any other character. Jasnah has some of that as well, and one of my only disappointments with Oathbringer was that Shallan and Jasnah's reunion did not involve a hug. I was really happy about her requesting to remain Jasnah's ward at the end, and of course suggesting Jasnah for Queen, which should be awesome in subsequent books - nobody is going to think of Jasnah as a weak monarch!

Currently, Szeth's idea of right and wrong is whatever Dalinar says; he isn't going to be some vigilante lawman in Urithiru. However, I think all of Shallan's brothers are huge liabilities for her in different ways, possibly Balat most of all. I do not think it is a good thing they are there, and I am really worried about the trouble they can cause Shallan. She has enough problems already, and I can see a myriad of possibilities from Jushu or Balat embarrassing her, the presence of her brothers pulling her back into the past (not a good place for Shallan), to the Ghostbloods using them as leverage. Hopefully, this will be a personal problem that Adolin can actually help with, because Shallan needs to fix her other problems on her own.

Totally forgot about that. I can't help but think (and hope) that Rysn and her Larkin will increase in significance as the books go on.

Also, I love Rysn and have ever since her first interlude chapter. Her interlude near the end was fantastic, and I really hope she begins to play a larger role in things. What is that creature?

I have to say, Pattern is my favorite, probably followed by Adolin and Jasnah. "Wrong like dividing by zero?" "Hmm, Yes, we are very famous." "Hmm. Yes. Seven People. Odd." Pattern also makes a comment to Adolin about not wanted to be stabbed that I loved. As for Adolin, he is just the best person around - with the possible exception of Lift. But I'm most excited for his arc in the next book. It seems likely that he might be able to revive his sword (mayalaran) for a number of reasons: she loyally followed him in shadesmar, attacking a fused, she communicated her name to him, he can start feeling her emotions (i.e. reluctance when given to the Thaylen shardbearer), and most importantly she appeared in only 7 heartbeats instead of the normal 10. If Adolin is able to revive Maya, I think he can form a Nahel bond with her not by letting her fix where he is broken, but instead fixing where she is broken. I think Adolin has the perfect temperament to be an Edgedancer, and I also think he would get along quite well with Lift. I fervently hope this is the direction his plotline is going. I've always loved Shallan, and I really hope she... gets better... soon. I kind of wanted to strangle her at various points when she doesn't share information with people. She should TELL JASNAH EVERYTHING! ALL THE TIME!! The most disappointing scene for me was Shallan's reaction to Jasnah's return. I was expecting at least a hug there. I also kept waiting for her to confide in Navani - I think they could have a really nice mother-daughter relationship (particularly now that Navani is literally Shallan's mother-in-law). At least there was a glimmer of hope at the end that Shallan will improve. I still love her, but I miss Shallan from the first two books when she wasn't totally consumed by her own lies.

I agree Wax is strong, and his combination of powers is fantastic - but what exactly would he push on? All of the metal that Kelsier and Vin wear? I'm pretty sure they can both dodge anything Wax pushes since (1) it will be moving in a straight line and (2) pewter/tin.

Why do you think that? Wax already seems to have the most trouble with Thugs - I think any mistborn would be extremely challenging for him, even with his ferruchemy advantage. He would have a hard time hurting them (pewter) and they could push/pull - even against other coinshots Wax often looses his gun, and without it he has no chance against a mistborn. Add to this the fact that Vin and to a lesser extent Kelsier seem to be to normal mistborn what Wax is to a normal coinshot, and I don't see how he could realistically win. This is actually one of the reasons I really enjoy the Wax & Wayne series - the characters are not ridiculously powerful compared to basically everyone they fight, and this gives a lot of fights good tension without having a force like Ruin directly involved.

Well then there would be no contest - Vin > Kelsier > Wax

Interesting - so does that mean that the most likely interpretation is that Suit is dead and not somehow elsewhere?