Gigalemesh

3 hours ago, Bugsy6912 said:

When the investiture at the planet is then converted to mass and the object falls back to earth, the lost spiritual investiture is reformed as kinetic energy in the falling object

This seems to imply that the conversion to mass in some way affects (effects?) gravity which is more than a nugget of atium or a shardblade is capable of. Obviously I'm not understanding something.

Those quotes do seem to say there is a conservation, so maybe I'm wrong, but I still feel there are situations where energy is created.

The coinshot is a good example, let's saying going horizontally so gravity isn't a big component, the coin is imparted with kinetic energy, which is then lost to air friction, and likely noise, heat, and deformation when the coin hits a wall or the ground. So all the energy it was given has been converted to other natural forms of energy not back into investiture, but we are told investiture isn't "used up" in this process, it's channelled by the allomancer and returns to the spiritual realm. So energy was definitely added into the world such that there is no clear way for it to become investiture again, but investiture isn't depleted. So energy has been added to the world without a loss of investiture. The only other possiblity is that heat, noise, and other natural forms of energy are randomly converting back to investiture to maintain the balance.

Personally I feel like this isn't an issue, it is magic after all, though it could have interesting consequences once people are scientifically advanced enough to be aware of these things. Brandon likes to use physics to explain things in his magic, but that doesn't mean everything has to obey real-world laws.

8 minutes ago, thejopen27 said:

You're right about what Brandon said. I just don't think that Brandon needed to change it if he didn't want Kaladin to kill Szeth. It doesn't even read like Szeth forcing Kaladin to kill him, it reads like Szeth intentionally missing a block so that a testing slash by Kaladin kills him instead. In Kaladin's POV Kaladin had a counter planned after Szeth blocked it, but Szetth didn't block it. 

Ah I see what you're saying, it is strange then that he wanted to change it. I was definitely thinking there was a bigger difference. It does make it seem like there was another reason, though on another thread there was a post from Peter saying that everything that happened in the original was still possible, though possible doesn't necessarily mean probable, so it could be Brandon thought it was a bit of a stretch that Nale could have reached Szeth in time as you suggested.

That's an interesting way of thinking about the problem, however I'm of the opinion that we just can't assume something being impossible in real physics makes it impossible in the cosmere. This will result in stuff like energy being created, but I don't think it is possible to create a universal set of rules to make these things work out. I know Brandon's magics are very science-like, but at their core they are still magic and I think that will result in things like breaking the conservation of energy. 

With something like a coinshot, the way I see it isn't that investiture is converted to kinetic energy, rather investiture is used to create that energy and then the investiture disperses and returns to preservation/harmony.

I can't really specifically address the way you've set stuff out as it's a bit confusing to me. I study engineering so I understand the physics of a coin in flight, but I don't understand what you mean by the investiture of the planet being converted into mass.

So yeah my opinion is that physical laws are just broken, obviously just an opinion but I really don't think you'd be able to explain all forms of magic in a way that preserves these things

52 minutes ago, Yata said:

Actually I believe the OP refers to the Durallumin as material alone, not to someone burning Durallumin.

Example: In the same way a piece of Allumin if UnForgable a piece of Durallumin would be extremely easy to Forge.

By the way, it's not the case. Alluminium's weirdness is spread among the Cosmere but as far as we know, it's mostly an unique case as someone will notice if the Durallumin acts differently too (expecially on Scadrial)

Yeah that is what I was talking about, and I had thought of that exact example with forging.

And you are probably right that someone would have noticed on scadrial if it was the case. I just thought it would be interesting to think about 

We know aluminium has the effect of being magically inert across lots of magic systems, and I was thinking wouldn't it be cool if duralumin also had effects around boosting magic in other magic systems. Not really basing that on anything, just something that popped into my head, and I though it could have some cool implications. Probably not the case but who knows. What do people think 

Maybe a miniseries for each of the era 1 Mistborn books could work, like one episode for each part, then it might feel less daunting than a massive 3-4 hour movie. 

I'd love to see an adaptation of The Emperor's Soul, I think the visuals of the effects of a soul stamp flowing outwards would be really cool in an animation 

Hey 17th shard newbie here, I was wondering if anyone could explain the idea that Trell is Automomy, or point me towards an appropriate thread. Lots of cool ideas here but they all seem to based around that so I feel like I'm missing something. Thanks

Been looking around for stuff on Trell and this thread has some interesting points. Personally I feel that it is incorrect to assume such a direct connection between Trell's intentions and those of the Set, especially as there is still a certain amount of mystery around what the Set is doing. In addition I think the red-eyed immortal's comment about controlling events on scadrial aren't necessarily as meaningful as they might be interpreted. I get the feeling it's just that Trell or their minions had a plan for scadrial that isn't working, any plan requires you to have control over some events and the shard's intent doesn't have to be directly related to control just for them to have a plan that could be said to be out of their control.

I agree that he was probably in the purelake, as things like the beads and weird sun would have been distinctive if was in shadesmar/CR, but it's definitely an interesting connection. Maybe as @thejopen27 said the fortress had somehow come through from shadesmar, that could have a lot of cool implications 

11 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

I don't think we should always assume that Brandon tells us the everything, or that he doesn't sometimes say one thing that is true to obscure something else that is also true. But generally you're probably right.

I just never saw it as an intentional kill by Kaladin in the first place. It reads as a testing jab that accidental is a knockout because the opponent unexpectedly drops all his defenses. 

 

I'll give way to your superior knowledge on how it played out, I was just relaying the stuff I've read since discovering there was a change. As you say there could always be another secret, but I had just taken what he said at face value 

16 minutes ago, thejopen27 said:

I wonder if Brandon just wanted to backtrack on being able to revive a shardblade death. Or he thought it strained credulity that Nale would be able to get to Szeth in time if one only has moments to heal a shard-severed death. 

From what I've been able to gather it was actually about Kaladin, Brandon felt it was a better choice for his character and nature as a wind runner not have him execute Szeth like that. There are some WoBs about it 

When in the story was this? I mean I re-read it recently and this has completely slipped my mind so apparently I didn't think it was super important, but probably just my terrible memory, it sounds like an interesting tidbit 

5 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

Does the rewrite change this scene emotionally? understood in the original that Szeth refuses to defend himself, he lets Kaladin kill him. How does it work in the rewritten scene. 

I agree that the imagery of Szeth in the dark hallway with the rain outside, glowing is amazing.

I only ever read the paperback with the rewritten scene, and I found it powerfully emotional. Szeth still refuses to defend himself, and believes he is allowing Kaladin to kill him, Kaladin ends up not doing it and Szeth is instead consumed by the storm, but I think all the impact in terms of Szeth's choices and motivations remains. Though I obviously I don't know how it read beforehand.

16 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

I think this might be slightly off-base. Time is only slowed inside the bubble, not outside it. So, if you stacked, somehow, thousands of Pulsers  and created a point of really, really slow time then all that would happen is the person or persons in that central point would be experiencing (to them) "normal time" but each one (1) second of their "normal time" would be worth days/years/decades of outside time. Once the bubbles dropped they'd find themselves millennia (or even further) into the "future" from their perspective but, for everyone outside the bubbles, time would have moved through those millennia "normally".

Right?

Yeah that sounds spot on. The original thing sounds more like a description of bendaloy

7 minutes ago, Yata said:

The Atium wasn't produced naturally, Preservation built the Pits ad release Valve of Ruin's Power in solid form (Atium).

As far as we know, there was no similar mechanism for the Lerasium.

Rewrite your Spiritweb turning your Connection to Preservation stronger is the Lerasium's Allomantic effect.

If a Mistborn burned a Lerasium's bead. He Will simply become stronger ad Mistborn

Yes you would become stronger but that isn't the main effect. Quote from an annotation where Brandon is talking about how lerasium makes someone mistborn "As a tidbit, that was a side effect of what that bead of metal did. It wasn’t the main purpose of the bead, and if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else." So that is specifically saying that making you mistborn isn't the main purpose. Not sure if you have a contradicting quote that you are basing your statement on?

It's worth noting that Lerasium does have an allomantic power, other than turning one into a mistborn, though we don't know what it is.

3 minutes ago, Wreith said:

You might want to consider getting involved in this thread:

 

That said, we know that Shin is one of the languages decended directly from the Dawnchant along with Parshendi, Horneater. This would seem to make it one of the earliest languages.
It doesn't necessarily disprove your theory, but it implies that the other two races came from somewhere else too but didn't get the special earth-eske treatment

Yeah I actually did post in that thread agreeing with someone who said they thought shinovar was created by Cultivation. I didn't want to take over that thread with a whole post and thought I'd present my idea here. Sorry if that's bad forum etiquette, this is the first forum I've been part of so I don't know.

While it is quite interesting that those three languages in particular would be related, and I'm sure there is lots of interesting stuff to unpack there, I don't think it says anything either way about my idea

There is definitely a WoB that someone on Roshar who was bonded to a Seon (from Elantris) would get powers from that bond, so there is definitely reason to believe bonding something other than the regular spren would give you powers. I personally think it would be quite strange if the powers granted aligned with the skybreaker powers though.

So I've seen this talked about in a few places, but wanted to put forward my ideas/thoughts about it.

We know Roshar, the planet and the continent, existed pre-shattering, but Shinovar is so different from the rest of Roshar that I think it must have specific origin seperate from the rest of Roshar.

My theory is that Shinovar was created by the shards after they arrived there, in the image of the life their vessels had seen.

This is based on the distinctive nature of the ecosystem. Obviously a big part of this is being shielded from highstorms which allows life there to not have to be adapted to them, but it is still quite remarkable that this entirely different ecosystem would have naturally evolved there, especially since it seems to be similar to Scadrial fauna and fluara, and since Scadrial is based on Yolen, similar to Yolen fluara and fuana.

So we have a region that is distinct from the rest Roshar, but similar to the homeworld of the shard vessels. This makes me think that Honour and Cultivation traveled to Roshar, and finding it so different from their home planet, one or both of them decided to make a little enclave of "normal" life there. Specifically it seems like something Cultivation would do, cultivating this area of land and the life in it.

I don't think this is too outlandish an idea, but I would love to hear what people think of it. Maybe I took longer to explain it than was strictly necessary, but I wanted to show what my thought process was. And apologies if this has been addressed before, or it seems obvious, but I haven't seen anything specifically saying it so thought it would be interesting to put it out there. 

On 28/09/2017 at 4:57 AM, The One Who Connects said:

Is not true.

---

Cusicesh. (Don't worry, I had to look it up to make sure I spelled it right too)

Dang, I thought that people were all just assuming that, didn't realise Brandon had confirmed that as canon. I had always thought that the stormfather was the one who bonded all the bondsmiths as @galendo suggests. Disappointing to find out I was wrong :/ 

On 13/10/2017 at 2:19 AM, thejopen27 said:

I think it's actually the opposite. Shinovar is a piece of Roshar made safe for humanity by Cultivation. 

This is exactly what I was thinking! 

12 minutes ago, kenod said:

Oh, I was thinking you meant Wayne's sDNA. I don't think a Kandra can pass on the sDNA of the person they're imitating, only their own.

Ah I see, yeah I agree the non-Kandra parent, in this case Wayne, should be able to pass on their abilities. You're probably right about the kandra side, and who knows what a kandra's sDNA would do in a human.

1 hour ago, kenod said:

For Allomancy and Feruchemy I'd say theoretically yes, but the combination with Kandra SDNA would cause some complications. Though, Kandra can use Hemalurgy to get abilities, so maybe it wouldn't be that far fetched.

Yeah I some weird stuff might be happening with the sDNA. In terms of passing on abilities I was actually thinking of wether they could pass on the abilities of the person they are imitating, even though they don't have access to them. But passing on abilities they are spiked with is a whole other possiblity. I'm sure there is a WoB about passing on abilities granted by hemalurgy but I can't remember what he said about it

@King Cole Heh yeah they are going between worlds so I suppose I should really call them world-hoppers, I've just been thinking of world-hoping specifically as using the cognitive realm to travel between worlds

My guess is that it would have to be summoned in contact with the summoner, so you could summon it on your foot or something but the only really useful place to summon it would be in your hand. That is just a guess though, and it would have to take into account clothing so "in contact" wouldn't necessarily be skin contact.