Gigalemesh

9 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

The scenes that were read at conventions do count as released chapters of Oathbringer, and are fair game for discussion without spoiler tags in this board.

Okay thanks, is there somewhere this was stated? Just so I can look at such things in future so as not to accidentally be somewhere I'll get spoilered.

4 minutes ago, Salkara said:

In BoM

If it's in Bands of Mourning shouldn't you put it in a spoiler block? I have read all mustborn but not everyone here will have 

I don't think one should use unpublished stuff without a spoiler warning, this isn't common knowledge to people even on oathbringer spoiler board, just saying.

9 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

It can be found here. The main characters didn't actually interpret the mural correctly.

Ah thanks, hadn't seen that one

9 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Agree that it is not the Oilsworn drawing of Ishar, for the reasons you suggested and because the piece is only several hundred years old in-universe. The blue disc mural displays shocking similarities to one found in Elantris, with many key details (floating in air, arms outstretched) the same between the two. That one was a depiction of worldhopping; I think this one is, as well.

Oh I didn't know that was about worldhopping, is there something about that somewhere? I assumed it was about people entering the pool to be disolved as we are shown in the book.

6 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

I think, actually, that we should look for a Cosmere-related explanation for what has been happening to Shallan. I've recently been working on creating a theory in order to explain all different kinds of magic, and I think I have a reasonable idea what Transformation (Soulcasting) does on an elementary level. Basically, every single thing there is has an Identity (the bead in Shadesmar), and if you Soulcast, you pressure an Identity with Investiture until it budges and changes, and your Investiture additionally changes reality to fit that. Now, if this is indeed what Shallan has been doing to her own Identity, allowing her to so effectively become someone like Veil (seriously, you're not gonna be able to stab your own hand without screaming just because of some method acting), then it stands to reason, that every time she changes her Identity, that Identity is a little less clear. Every next time, the Investiture needed to convince the Identity to change is lower, until at some point the Identity doesn't know which one is 'real' anymore.

That all makes sense, and provides a reasonable magic-based explanation, it doesn't necessarily prove there has to be a magic based solution though. She isn't actually using Soulcasting at all that we have seen, just lightweaving, so we can't say for certain she has been meddling with her identity, though as I've said it's certainly possible. But I still feel there doesn't need to be a magical explanation just because there could be one

2 hours ago, Wreith said:

I hate to get on here just to shoot this theory down because I actually like it, but Humans existed on Roshar before the shattering.

Also, The Girl Who Looked Up ends with the storms tearing the wall down, which would need to be explained.

I think maybe you should try to combine this theory with the Vorin tradition of humans being expelled from the Tranquiline Halls.
I think the Shin were already present on Roshar and other humans may have been moved there later (or possibly vice-versa)

The story would then relate to how they lost their original world rather than being as local as Shinovar separated from the rest of Roshar

He says they predate the shattering, but does that mean they were on Roshar beforehand or just that they weren't created by the shards? Just wondering 

1 minute ago, Alderant said:

Oh don't worry on my account, I deal with a form of it as well. 

And I'm actually agreeing with you. This is a point I make frequently--a lot of people are quick to ascribe a magical explanation for the problems a character goes through because the magic systems are just so fascinating. I tend to think the other way--that these stories would play out much the same way without the magic system, but rather the magic system is augmentative to the problems at hand, rather than the cause of those problems. Take Shallan for example--is her identity crisis the result of her use of the magic system, or is it the result of something already present that the magic system is magnifying? I look at it as the latter, some look at it as the former. From the sounds of it, you think of it as the latter as well.

Aha I see what you're saying, and yes I definitely do agree with you 

1 minute ago, Alderant said:

Ehhh....it's not that she's losing her mind, per se, as much as it is she's losing her sense of self. Grief and trauma do funny things to people. Some run from it (like Shallan), some drown in it (like Kaladin), some become hard because of it (like Kelsier), others become soft because of it (like Vivenna). Note I don't mean soft as in "weak", but rather soft as in "pliable".

And here is some ground here for a cosmere-aware explanation--considering the nature of how the magic systems are granted involves someone's soul developing "cracks". But I usually choose to ascribe it as effectation, rather than causation.

Maybe my wording was insensitive, I struggle myself with mental health so I realise it's a sensitive topic and I didn't mean to be flippant about it. My point was merely that there doesn't have to be a magical explanation, there could just be a psychological one.

I doubt Dalimar will bond the spren of oathbringer, as he is already bonded to the stormfather. But I have seen a lot of people theorising that Adolin will revive and bond his blade, so this could be foreshadowing for that

3 minutes ago, Wittiest man alive said:

So will Dalinar eventually use the Stormfather’s dream share ability to communicate with Kaladin since he has been off the grid for so long?

That's a great idea! I totally hadn't thought of that

I was of the understanding that both the trapping and releasing had happened centuries ago, and I still think that is the case, but you're right that the text doesn't necessarily say that

3 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Shallan referred to the mural of Honor and Cultivation as pagan.  She apparently got the reference or recognized Cultivation as being from some other belief system than Vorinism.  Do we know of any faith tradition, that Vorins call pagan, that worships or reveres Cultivation?

She referenced "mother Cultivation" in a previous chapter, at least it was something like that, so clearly Cultivation exists as a concept in some religion or culture

I'm of the opinion it's related to the illumination surge, at least that was my thought upon reading the chapters

While your idea isn't outside the realm of possibility with the magic systems, as you've shown, a lot of you evidence hinges on her personas, and I'm of the opinion that she is legitimately just loosing her mind, and there doesn't need to be a cosmere-aware explanation for it. That's just my thoughts though, and I wouldn't be too surprised to be wrong

6 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

 

I think it might be worth noting that there is a difference between designating a safehand and regarding it as a sexualized part of the body that needs to be covered.

While it is entirely probable that the tradition of covering the safehand for "modesty" reasons started around the same time society started emphasizing "women's activities = 1-handed, men's activities = 2-handed", the WoBs quoted in this thread do not explicitly state that. They state that the idea of a safehand began at this time but who knows when that morphed into the safehand being viewed as sexually explicit and, therefore, needed to be covered. I mean, according to these WoBs it seems that the idea of a "safehand" was not universally accepted at the time of the Recreance (when all the shards became available) and it would be a stretch, in my mind, to suddenly have women sew hand-sleeves on their dresses (or wear gloves) overnight. I think the covered, sexualized safehand gradually became a thing over a generation (or several generations).

So, I'm not saying that you (or Calderis) is wrong but I do think it is worth considering that safehands came first and the modesty concept around the safehand came later.

I completely agree with you, it would likely have taken quite a long time after the institution of the "1 hand = feminine" idea to result in the concept of a specific safe hand, and longer for all the culture around it to arise, especially the idea that is is somehow sexual to see a safe hand. Just saying that it has its roots in that, as people were wondering where it could have come from.

4 minutes ago, SLNC said:

I think, that Re-Shephir blocked Stormlight from reaching the pillar. I could see it get charged up at the next highstorm.

Out of up-votes but this was also what I thought

Found it! 

 it's in the thread about the inside cover art

1 minute ago, Steeldancer said:

I've never seen that one! 

Wishing I had arcanum right now. 

I just saw it in a different thread, I'll try and find it now.

42 minutes ago, Shadowmancer said:

I've always wanted to ask Brandon if this tradition is more than just a strange form of modesty, if there is some functionality attached to it. All scientifically recorded modes of modesty spring from some sort of semi-logical basis. This is the first evidence I've seen that this Alethi tradition has more meat to it than just a strange quirk that Brandon thought up.

There is a WoB about this stating that in its current incarnation at least, it stems from an attempt to stop women being able to fight and claim shards.

7 minutes ago, Bernem said:

I was also curious about this WoB that lots of people are mentioning. So for any others who want the direct source, here ya go!

 

Thanks, I have seen that one actually (I checked out the coppermind entry on the desolations). As I said at some point though, a lot less than 99 is still a pretty big range and doesn't pin it down at nine. Of course it shows it is a plausible idea and I can see why people like it. It's just not quite as set in stone as could be implied by some people's posts

4 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

I dont think you're being rude, it's just it makes So much sense. it feel like puzzle pieces have fallen into place. That's why I'm so excited about it. 

I'm glad it feels that way for you, having a theory you are excited about is great, and it will be awesome if you are proved right, it's definitely a cool idea. I guess it just doesn't resonate with me the same way, but that is by no means evidence against it

Just now, Steeldancer said:

What would be the point of Theorycrafting If we already knew everything for sure?

I will defend my Theories, until proved Wrong by WoB. 

I'm not attacking your theories, or saying there is anything wrong with thinking up cool theories without proof. You asked why people didn't agree with the theory and I gave a possible reason, had no intent to be rude

Just now, Steeldancer said:

Well we know it's less than 99. And we don't know it's not 9. So my theory is entirely valid. Until proved Wrong 

I'm not saying there is any proof against, it is very possible in fact. I'm just saying that my, and maybe other's, hesitancy in going with that theory is that it hinges on something that is completely speculation, especially since quite a few posts (can't remember whether any of them where yours or just people agreeing) made out that the 9 desolations were facts, which just isn't the case

10 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Ok is the issue people have with my idea that they think that I'm saying the Unmade came after the desolations? Because... I never said that. The heralds broke before the desolations ended, or so I think. So first desolation, first unmade. Second desolation, second unmade, 2 heralds broken. Ect. 

Personally my issue with the assumption that there were only nine desolations, as you said in a later post without that the whole theory goes out the window, and we haven't seen anything to imply that it is the case, other than it would fit nicely with that idea