mariapapadia

Ok. So this post might be very random. So you've been warned. I hope I won't come across to harsh, I've seen a lot of people making the Syladin argument, but I really want to crush it. Syl is a sapient being thanks to her connection with Kaladin, without him she would literally be just a mindless spren as she states so many times. This should be reason enough for them to not be together. If that is not, here is another one. It will be in unhealthy relationship because she will always be dependent on Kaladin, respecting his oaths in order for her not to die. It's not like in a marriage or a relationship when you say some oaths and if it doesn't work out you only have your conscience to bother you. This will mean that Kaladin will kill her and I don't like what that implies. If at any point Kaladin goes crazy and doesn't want to be a Windrunner he will be forced to keep his oaths or kill his lover/friend. It gives him levareage above her. Also, I never thought of things this way, but I remember reading a post about Syl's and Kal's relationship where they said that the way Syl acts towards Kal sometime is resembling manipulation. And that it's true, it's not that she's doing it with bad intentions, but she has the power of making him do what she wants sometimes, because of how their bond works. And that's not fair to either. Anyway, sorry you where the one to receive all my NO SYLADIN rant, but I think the moral implications of this transforming into a romantic connections are bigger than people have thought about. This ! Yes! I don't like the idea of a few being sacrifieced for the greater good and we've already seen that the Oathpact didn't work. I personaly think the resolution to get rid of Odium will be a new one, not another Oathpact. Or at least I hope so, otherwise I will be let down. Kaladin already mentioned in his fight to Jasnah, that they have no reassurance it will work to kill and put the Heralds through torture again. Agree with the Syl argument, disagree with the Tarah one. I don't know much about the relationship Tarah and Kaladin had, but it read to me as him looking only for someone to support him, rather than having an actual partner. Kaladin is not in the same place anymore, so I don't think they will fit. Also I think whoever is going to be Kaladin's romantic interest should bring something more to the story than that and I don't see Tarah doing anything more than that. It's like in the case of Adolin and Shallan, Adolin is not only Shallan's romantic interest, he has other role in the story as well. It's not necessarily true and I will be dissapointed if his only role is to fight and protect others. I think a relationship will make his character more complex. Dalinar is the leader of the new Radiants and such a big role in leading the fight, Shallan is also an important pawn in the fight and they both have romantic relationships, so I don't think one necessarily excludes the other. I think he's on a path where he's slowly accepting that he can't save everyone and that's no reason for him not to enjoy his life. He has always chose his men over any other interests because he felt guilty and responsible for what happen to Tien and his group being killed because he didn't took the Shardblade after the killed Helaran. My belief is that the 4th ideal is difficult for him because he can't accept that yet, but I don't see him not advancing in his oath, so I think once he says it will be easier for him to open up to someone else. It's a dangerous world, gods are dead, others are coming down to Roshar, creatures that can't be killed are taking the lead and stone monsters rise. Do you think anyone is safe? Everyone is in danger, being close to Kaladin doesn't necesarilly mean more danger than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I would say it would be even safer. I can't see Kaladin and Venli and I hope the story will never go there. Venli right now is on a path of self discovering and changing ideas about the world. I can't see any scenario where they will work together well or be suited for eachother. Also right now I am more interested to see Venli become and develop on her own rather than in a relationship. Also, the Parsheni didn't strike me as sexual beings. There are many comments from their side, from different frorm of them, where they don't understand why humans are so consumed by lust and passion. That not considering that Venli's only friend and partner was killed by the same gods that she helped bring to power, so I think there will be a while until she can get over that, until she will open herself to someone, this is if she would even be interested. We've seen enough of Kaladin being his own person and going through different struggles so a relationship won't be something out of the blue. I agree with some of the points you made. I think it was easier for Kaladin to balance his work-personal life because he felt responsible to save everyone. Once his Superman/Saviour complex dies down a bit, I think he'll work good in a relationship. We actually see him thinking of Shalladn in a "non-friend" way before Syl mentions it. In the end of WoR he looks toward her when the big group was leaving the war camp+the chasm etc and through OB, not only when Syl mentions. His relationship with Tarah didn't work because he was another man then. Just like he couldn't just go ´back to his Laral crush. Kal already has a great support system in friends and Syl and he's struggling to get his feet around living with this glooming darkness. He will never get rid of it, the kind of depression that Kal has is not something that can be cured, but you learn to control it and live your life around it. I'm under the impression he's slowly getting there and a romantic partner won't be his sole support or light, like Tarah was. My problem isn't with that being seen as less of an union, but about the moral implications of it, which I talked about further up in this comment. It don't think the mechanics of it are necessarily an impediment, but it's questionable how healthy that relationship will be. I know the argument or age has been made before, but I wonder if everyone would be ok with Kaladin and Jasnah's relationship if Kaladin is 35 and Jasnah 20. The same for Lift.. until Lift would be the appropriate age to date Kaladin, I assume their relationship will already have been developed and I can't see other implications in that rather than brother-little sister. It was creepy enough in Twilight werewolf put eyes on Bella's baby and decided that they are soulmates or whatever and waited for her to grow up. Of course it's just my opinion, but it's hard for me to get my head around the relationships that develop on a brother-sister premise. I do think Kaladin needs someone that's strong enough to take care of herself and maybe take care of him once in a while. I, however have a problem with the idea that a woman strong and able to take care of herself if one that knows how to fight. I like seeing a woman that can fight her and be the savior once in a while (Tavi and Kitai, from Jim Butcher's Codex of Alera are a great example. She saves his chull so many times and it's fun to see) , but I am not sure that is only the type that would fit Kaladin. I think the best fit for him would be someone that challenges him intellectually and can hold her ground if front of him, not being intimidated. That of course can translate and result into a character that could also fight. This is why I like Rysn She's adventurous, smart, stubborn and even if she's paralised, she still fought as best as she could. Ohh! I get way to excited for this! Leaving aside the morality of a relationship with Syl (which I already said why I think it's bad), we don't even know if spren can have romantic feelings or how they are evolving depending on their bond. I've had a thought that spen might not have the same learning capacity as human or are limited in their emotions and ideas by the order they belong to. A human can understand why a lie is bad or necessary, but a spren, Syl in this case will never agree to one, because of her nature. So while I do think they are able to learn and develop to a certain extent, I doubt that involves romantic feelings as well. Nightblood! On a more serious note, cause I've taken this post way to seriously, I can't look as Szeth as having a relationship because nothing about him give that vibe. To me he seems more like a monk or a person brought up to be a weapon. Even though he's 35 I think he still has the mind of a child and I can only speculate at this point that he skipped a lot of the common social experiences most of the other characters or people have in general. He was bound to that stupid stone for more than half of his life and he was only in the service of others, so I think it's time for him to do his own thing and be awesome with Nightblood. Sorry for the lengthy post and taking it to seriously, it's just one of those days where I don't have much to do at work

Yessss ! I would LOVE THAT! I like how Kaladin's arc is progressing because he seems to accept his depression and to learn to live with it, but not letting it define him. It's not like a relationship will cure him, but it would be nice to have someone there. I am sorry to say this, but I think Tarah would too common for him and he needs someone to challenge him and call him on his bs. OHHH ! Rysn would be so great and it would be the perfect setup to see more of her as well ! Now I am gonna obsess over this !

I would be curios to hear in what way Moas surprised you (good or bad?). I will probably be forever biased when it comes to Moash, but I hate it (he's written well) but ohter than that I want to hear some thoughts from someone who enjoyed him. The others were great ! I never felt a particular connection to Dalinar's character, I don;t either after this book, but he got more interesting to me and I enjoyed his flashbacks and his Accension. Yesss! Team Szeth from the start! I feel like he was always so underrated! IMO Venli is interesting because she doesn't fall in one of the two camps, I think she will do her thing with the Listeners and lead them. Plus I love redemption arcs! @Ookla the StrooklaEZ Great summary of all the characters ! I absolutely hated Moash and I want him to burn in hell . #NOREDEMPTIONARC I enjoyed Adolin's arc with Maya and I am sure he will revive it, it's too obvious not too. I was a bit dissapointed because I expected to see more conflict from his side and maybe some more POVs to clarify some things about Shallan or to see some of his inner worries @Ookla the peer-pressured I was quite let down about Shallan, because she has been my favourite character so far. But as the book progressed she became a bit tiring to read and by the end I don't particulary like how her story wrapped up, but that's a story for another day(never). She's becoming one of the most polarizing characters after her ending in OB and I am starting to get a bit saturated by her, so I am focusing on some others characters

While Venli is becoming my new obsession and one of my most anticipated characters for SA4, I actually think Eshonai's flashbacks will work in a more interesting manner. My opinion is that Venli is a character that is transitioning and becomes more multidimensional (?) now, whereas before she only had one goal, so i admit it would be interesting to see some of the mechanics of how she discovered a new form and all that, but in the end I think through Eshonai we'll get more internal conflict. Also, it would be pretty interesting to see Venli from Eshonai's POV and I think it would be quite interesting to see more of their mother's relationship with Eshonai, because she seemed the one that was longing for her attention more. But of course, if we'll have more Venli I won't complain!

Hej! So I noticed that there are a lor of threads about favourite characters or individual threads about some minor and major characters, but if we were to have one for each, there would be dozens( not that there aren't already). We all know and disected our main trio plus the characters surrounding them so far, so I was thinking this could be a merged thread for some more indepth talk about characters that got a bit of action in OB, but they aren't big enough yet. (Of course you could argue that the one's I'm going to talk about are quite big, but ehh.. ) My questions are : what minor(or not so minor) characters arcs( new or old) surprised you in a good way in OB and why and where do you think they could go from there? My first pick is Venli, this comes after a previous post I saw today, but that was more Eshoinai related and I deviated. When I listened to the first Venli interlude, I have to admit I wasn't that impressed, I didn't have any strong feelings towards her, but I thought it will be a bit tiering to hear an Odium fanatic in the making and especially because some thought she was going to be Odium's champion I was a bit meeeh. But I was pleasantly surprised by her. Her next chapter( or was it an interlude), when she was going to be transformed into a Fused, but she ended up staying herself, but loosing her friend/partner I knew I was into her. It was a bit of a shock to me that she seemed to get hit so hard by the loss of Demid, but not Eshonai, her own sister. It made me realised that despite her agenda, she actually cared about someone else as well. The moment when she was close to being transform during the storm, but that voice inside her said "Choose another, This one is mine", was such a precios moment for me. Maybe I read it wrong, but did anyone else thought that was Timbre fighting for her with the "spirit"(for lack of a better word) of the Fused or was it something with the voidspren she was already bonded with? ( I haven't started my reread so most of the scenes, I read only once and I don't get things the first time). I was glad that she slowly started to doubt the Fused and the cause and she hide Timbre from them. I almost had a heart attack when she was interrupted in the middle of saying her Oaths, thinking she'll have the same faith as Elhokar. I am glad how her story progressed and that she doesn't seem to fall in any of the two established camps, so I hope she will try and gather her people, the Listeners, back and lead them. Towards what? I have no idea, but I am curious to see. I wonder if she'll meet with Eshonai's old group that fleed the Shattered Plains in WoR before being killed or transformed. Also, the way she comunicates to Timbre, seems special, as I haven't seen any words( this is if Timbre wasn't the one repelling the Fused) so far, but only "pulsing". I wonder if it's because the bond is still in the beginning and she will evolve to words (much like Pattern in WoR). Second, Szeth. I had a wierd appreciacion for Szeth from the beginning of WoK, though I couldn't give a specific reason why. So I waited to see more of him for a while and was a bit scared that he might go to much into being a crazy law enforcer, like Nale. But of course some of those worries were resolved with Edgedancer. Him and Nightblood are my current favourite pair of human/pseudospren. I like that he was some sort of prodigy among the other Skybreakers and I couldn't help but feel amused at how the situation was presented. He looked like the bullied lonely guy in school, that has a magic friend And when he played air paintball with the others, I was sure he was going for the "water cleared my shirt" excuse . And all the test he had with the other Skybreakers, it really felt like Skybreaker academy 1.01. Ohhh ! I just loved him and he is probably my most anticipated character for the next book. Nightblood.. I had no doubt I was going to love everything about him/her. This sword could side with Odium and I would still love it <3 It's been one of my favourite characters written by Brandon, ever since Warbreaker. I was really dissapointed with the fact that there wasn't more of a reaction to Szeth's arrival, the fact that he was alive and etc. I really look forward to see him from other POV's and hear other's opinion about him. Especially interacting with Kaladin and Lift. Lift . Lift was a wierd character for me for a while. I didn't thought that much of her in WoR, haven't give her a second though and she annoyed me a bit with the "awesomeness". After I joined the 17th Shard and saw that she was such a polarizing character I got put off even more, so I was postponing reading Edgedancer. After I did, I didn't love her, but I didn't dislike her either. But suddently a couple of weeks before OB I read a post on this forum, that made me realise I am really excited for her and her arc. It was new to me, as it was like something brew and grew inside and one day I just went to 180 degrees. I really enjoyed her in OB. She had such a small appearance, but had a stong impact. Saving/helping Szeth with Nightblood, moking Dalinar, asking him if he was planning to fight the Voidbringers with a book, her telling Shallan to stop hugging herself haha. I am really growing into loving her ! And the more time passes the more I start to forget why I didn't like her. She breaks all the tension happening around the other characters nicely and I think it's great that in a world that's ending, she's the one cracking jokes. Though I really hope she drops the "awesomeness" and stop reffering to everything Stormlight related like that . I see some resemblance/parallels with Shallan here so I am curious how she will interact with Wit as well. I would love to see her as Kaladin's perstering little sister These were my top three, but two honorable mentions go to Teft and Elhokar. I was pretty vocal that both their scenes (saying the Oath and dying have been the two most emotional scenes for me in this book). Before OB I didn't care much about Teft, though I could tell something was happening to him, but the way Brandon managed to portray his addiction, even though he had such a short POV, was so real and emotional to me, especially because I had known people IRL struggling with drug abuse. What else is there to say about Elhokar? I was actually getting fond of him since WoR and it's still painfull to think about him . Yeah, these were my surprises when it comes to characters for OB. What characters weren't you sure you'd enjoy, but ended up loving? (releasing this into the world, hoping it won't be ignored. Sorry if there are similar threads out there, but I needed to gush about these guys). Sorry for being a bit incoherent, I should get more sleep instead of spending time here.

to quote one of the beta readers on reddit #NOREDEMPTIONARC

I did too on Teft's third oath, it was one of the most important/favourite moments in the book for me. I teared up a bit at Dalinar's moment of "you can't have my pain" and I was a mess when Elhokar died. And I have no pregnancy or PMS excuse

I support this with everything I have! Especially the Moash burning in the pits of Braize. To add to this.. A clear resolution for Shallan's mental problems and for her to forgive and learn to love herself and still be strong and independent. A full book dedicated only to random conversations between Szeth, Nightblood and ocasionally Lift More Venli For important/emotional moments not to be skipped (like the Szeth talk, Jasnah reunion etc were) : Shallan telling Adolin about the Ghostbloods, Shallan telling her brothers about her the journey, Dalinar telling his sons about what he did, everyone reacting to Renarin's corrupted spren More Adolin and Kaladin bromance More Rysn More of Kaladin's family (I have seen some interesting theories about them so I want to see where that goes)

OHHHH! Here is where my biases will explode, but I hope not with Moash. Though I am sure they will meet again. I just HATE Moash sooooo much. He is well written and I can see why some people would find him interesting, but I just despise him with all my being. The more time it passes, the more I hate him. Sorry for this, I'll just stop @Ookla the Heraldic ohh! yes, that's what I thought, I just interpreted Toaster's post wrong thinking Venli would get to be one. Offtopic: It's hard to quote people, when everyone has Ookla in their name

well, actually I like Venli much more than Eshonai. Eshona started to grow on me ,but then I didn't get to fully be invested with her character. Venli on the other side.. she was one of the characters who's story arc I enjoyed the most in OB, maybe because I didn't have any kind of expectations ( I would even say I was dreading it a bit). But I was pleasantly surprised by her and can't wait to see more. Is it confirm that she'll be in the second half? Some were suggesting that she may be one of the main character for the next 2 books, but with Eshonai flashbacks, which would make sense and I think it would be interesting to see more of her through her sister's perspective. I realized I haven't directly replied to your question about Eshonai. My suggestion is that, while Eshonai was an interesting character, she gave me the impression that she was leaning more on the humans side so for her to switch camps or become a Radiant, wouldn't have been such a great step. Whereas Venli.. She was almost close to becoming a fused, she had the biggest role in the return of her gods, so for her to go through a journey, transitioning from that, I find more intriguiding and potentially exciting. Also, I feel she's not going to side with the humans or the Fused, so that would bring a third party into the mix that could be interesting. (Sorry for this transforming into a Venli gush, I will find a more on topic thread for it, it was just that I was exactly thinking about her the whole day)

Well to be honest that's exactly the kind of thing that put me off this character for a while after I joined the 17Shard. And once I started to see that happening I stopped following any kind of Adolin related threads or theories and my enjoyment of him came back while re-reading WoK and WoR. I don't fall in the idolising Adolin camp and I don't think he's God's gift on Roshar, so I get a bit tired of those threads/points praising him to incredible extents. Though through some of those I noticed some things about him that I missed first. As I said, for me he's mostly making me feel good and I don't feel the need of looking for a deeper meaning or simbolism. Also I completly dissagree with people harassing an author, despite how much they love a certain character. EDIT: haha! I actually remember that thread and your post. I guess as relatively new sharders we don't get how much others had to fight for him over the years. Probably in 3-4 years, when the 4th book is released and new people will come, others won't understand out anticipation for seeing Shallan in a worse state than she was before and we'll have to pull out this thread from 17 shard's basement. Haha ! Thank you, I am trying not to let this go to my head I am mostly on the same page (haha, see what I did there? ) with the points you've made both on this thread and others (Especially the Jasnah one )

Well.. to be completly honest, I do agree with the majority of the people is this thread, but I couldn't help but notice that whenever someone expressed a different opinion than the general consensuss, we kind of tended to jump on that certain person(to be fair, myself included). That being said, I don't think is nothing wrong with asking for people to provide arguments for their claims, since all this has been a long debate, but as you said it's normal for people who are satisfied with this plot to go where others will be more simpathetic with them, as it's normal for you,me and the majority to enjoy this more than other platforms. So far, I think this thread has been pretty civilized. A more tense response here and there, but I think we can all agree that we are rational, grown up people and there is no need for pettiness. And your post wasn't offensive in any way

Yes, this annoys me mostly because one of my biggest pet peeves is the existence of "the one". I feel like people get so hung up on that and the idea that "THE ONE" will swipe you of your feet, fireworks will spark, music will play and unicorns will jump, that is nothing of those things happens then it's not "THE ONE". Ughhh! It annoyed me that neither of his problems (murder and commitment issues) had any payout in this book. You know, in the beginning while reading WoK I really tried to find things to pick Adolin apart, a reason for me dislikeing him, but as the story progressed I had to admit, that I like him being the kind one and even if he's a pretty boy, he doesn't have one of the typical bad traits. I don't know, I guess it's just a matter of taste, but for me is coming to the realisation that he makes me feel good. Sometimes there is no need for a deeper meaning.

To be fair I do think Adolin is a great character and is more than your typical pretty boy. And there were plenty of people pointing out how he is more than just ordinary. My problem comes when some feel the need to victimize him and see him as the underdog, while he's clearly not.

This reminds me of something I said a while ago. IMO the shipping wars become cancer because of the fandon getting to hot headed and irrational. But so far this has been pretty civiliezed and people have made good arguments on both sides. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that this revoled mostly around Shallan's mental health issues and we're not all 12 year old girls No offence to any 12 year olds out there. But yeah, I don't know about other platforms, I've seen a lot of people saying tumblr and reddit are over the moon with how things pay out.

This reminded me of how dissapointed I was that .. Mistborn spoiler

I am pretty sure the wedding happened, we also have that ketek at the end of the book, written by Jasnah on the "ocasion of her ward Shallan Davar wedding celebration"( I am surprised no one picked that apart) . Which makes it even more frustrating that we were deprived of yet another moment, after all the skipped reunions, reaction to Elhokar's death and Szeth appearance. On another note...This brings me to another point.. I started thinking since yesterday that if there is a one year break we'll again be deprived of other moments : Shallan telling Adolin about the Ghostbloods, Shallan telling her brothers about her journey, Adolin and Renarin finding out about what Dalinar did and these are just a few. I have no idea how we'll see these, as I doubt none of them will come up in the span of one year. Anyway, this is beside the point of this thread and I am sorry, but let's be honest at this point this has reached some other topics that I don't feel that bad

While I do agree that the "braided roses method" is textbook Shalladin and the "make the characters go on a trip/quest together" also supports that clain and Brandon himself says it's fun to read about character that "rub eachother the wrong way", there is also the part of him saying how real life relationship works + doing mundane stuff together which implies Shallan and Adolin. As I have said before, I think a strong case can be made for Shallan and Adolin as well and.. yeah some of us will read either of the pairs with more or less chemistry. I liked them both for diffent reasons that have been rehearsed by others through the thread. That being said, I don't think the Kaladin and Shallan angle will be explored more and personally, even though it's fun and they have chemistry, I am a bit wary of the mental gymnastics that would require and the drama it would create. If at one point I thought that Kaladin and Adolin could still be friends despite Shallan choosing one or the other, Shallan going back to Kaladin after she married Adolin, would be wrong for multiple reasons and I think that would really break the friendship between Kaladin and Adolin, which I don't want to see. Plus if for some reason Shallan discovers that Kaladin is her true love ( beyond how cheesy that will be), I think it would be more realistic for her to realise that she blew her chance when she rushed into something else. At this point I only pray that this is not the end of Shallan's mental problems and her recovery will be realistic and won't have Adolin as a main plotpoint. I don't feel like there is more room for Kaladin there and no point, since Shallan is still not well.

Hahah! I'm watching this interview with Brandon and the guy asks him :"so which one of the KR orders are the best dancers?" Brandon : "Edgedancers and Windrunners". I feel like this is him trolling

well... to be fair I wouldn't put that much faith into it, cause while it gives some indications that we can relate to Kaladin/Shallan being buit, it also says that a romance shouldn't take that much time or space to be resolved, otherwise it can interfere with the character's main arc. That being said, I mostly posted it as an indication that Brandon's suggestion of creating tension in romance is not to go on the Twilight path, but make both of the romantic interests equally desireable. This is why I was so convinced this triangle could've had so much tension and angles to explore, but oh well..

You're welcome! Yes, it is really interesting to hear him talking about ways to build characters and story and so on. Even though I have no connection to creative writing as a profession, it's still fascinating to see how he understands certain archetypes or plans the structure of the story. And once you read his books, those things become really obvious. I always come back to his lectures when I'm out of podcasts to listen to or I just need my Sanderson dose while working If my firm knew what they are paying me for..

Funny you say this, because I've watched all of Brandon's lectures from 2011-2012 up to 2016( that I could find on youtube) and I don't remember him ever saying such a thing. But it would be nice if you could provide a link or a source, before me commiting to bet my firstborn on this. Meanwhile I'm just gonna leave this here.. If I dig deep enough I think I can find some Q&A that support the same idea, but for now the pressing matter of doing laundry is calling.. https://youtu.be/V9cdgE6FjRs?t=1h2m10s

I understand where you are coming from and to a certain extent I agree, that having a male author make a choice for a female author might be seen as problematic, but ultimately I am under the opinion ( and I know it's not a popular one), that not only women can talk and accurately portray women issues, not only transgender people can talk about transgender issues, not only men can talk about men and so on. Through the human capacity of feeling emphaty and make mental exercises of being in someone else's shoes and lots of research on the matter, I think other categories are able to speak about certain issues that don't concern them directly and each one of us is responsible to do our own research in order to judge if those problems were expressed in a rightful and respectful manner. I think Brandon has done a good job so far and he always does extensive research and is aware of his responsibility to shine light on these issues in a respectful way. Ultimately, for me it boils down at evaluating other people by their values, thoughts and so on, rather than gender, nationality or a singular aspect of their identities.

Ohhh! Thank you so much for this! In the midst of all that happenend in OB, not only Shallan's arc, but other things I wasn't happy with, I was more than a bit dissapointed, but for some reason your post brought back to my mind some of great things I love about Brandon

I see your point, though I think we get this aspect in the form of Jasnah's character, who despite all norms and pressure is strong on her own and doesn't feel the need for a marriage. Being a woman myself, I love reading about strong women and don;t think the only way a woman can become that is if she chooses not to get married when given the option. I think society today only views empowered women as Jasnah's type, but for me an e.w. is one that is confident and comfortable with her choices despite how others think she should be. Thus I think that Shallan's choice of marrying Adolin, not only because it was an easy way out, could've been a sign of her empowerment. But as the majority agrees, including myself, this conclusion has been reached in a poorly manner and so far it implies an unhealthy resolution for her. This is a tangent here, but I remembered something along these lines that happened a while ago in the media.