Archer

You'll probably need to add an e to your vote code @Clanky I think their signup level of activity was higher than usual in service of a joke. Of late, they tend to either be fairly active or completely AWOL for hours, so I hadn't clocked them as having unusual activity levels this game. My counter argument there would be why go for past fifth place? There was enough people who got the full eight boxings from Active on the Floor that you could blend in. I think the allure of action buying would be strong enough to incentivize greedy gameplay from the elims. Why apply this logic to TUN and not Mat? You could make a similar case

Fair enough, but Devo could have pretty easily used a vote manip to build on your wagon and make a tie between you and Tani. Actually your vote plus two from Devo would make a three vote wagon, which would have won. So you should be more careful about that in future. At least pick someone who might be an elim in your eyes. I just realized it was probably a NK avoidance tactic never mind Hey Xino, it'd be cool if you could code a cycle countdown clock into your website. Maybe that's a thing you incorporate next time around or for a longer game. Thank you for the suggestion. I forgot I needed 50 words in my response to a quote, I was thinking that I just needed a quote plus a one word response. But I think I understand now. Well we only have two more cycles of play to go, so spending money this round would be a good idea. I'd still prefer strong consolidation to keep the pool of potential Bodyguard buyers large, but this is an important cycle, so buying vote manip would be a reasonable idea. We can assume the elims will probably go for a hammer if we don't promise to counter with manip of our own. And it earns me boxings!:P. Thank you for your contribution. Going by my shortlist I've come up with, you and Stick are my two top suspects, so I'll appreciate your eventual case against them. I've penciled in Luckspren as a potential teammate of one of you, which would explain the GM's generosity Losing an elim messes with the balance more than losing a villager does. That's meta speculation though, so I'm putting it on the backburner.

That cycle did not end when I thought it would. Other things are confusing me too. --Why’d JNV die? It indicates an elim team active after he posted, which gives me an excuse to discount Luckspren as a suspect for now. I’m also getting a light v!Clanky vibe from it because he explicitly called JNV out for making a wallpost that was hard to parse, which seems bold for an elim about to kill them out of spite. If it’s about his vote on Devo, it could be e!Devo, but we’ll get to that in a moment. Or maybe this was just about the money, since I believe he was due to receive the Loudest Voice honors. --Why was there no vote manipulation? E!Devo had the money to solidify their position, so either they saw Tani wasn’t on to self pres and knew that vote manip would look suspicious when they were ostensibly trying to diversify the wagons. Or they’re village, which is what I’m going with here. -Why’d TUN keep his vote in place? It’s such a ridiculous risk to take in a game with vote manipulation and Devo trying to disrupt the 2:2 wagons by making them 2:2:1+ instead of 2:3. Village points for having a casual disregard for their own life. You really should vote for people early if you're going to suss them anyway. Those EoD comments didn't look great so I'll provide an example of how to do it :P. vote=Mat

Lets unpack all that later. I’m glad you showed up because people dying to the filter is bad for us. Looks like Luckspren might get hit, which means the elims hit parity after C3 if we assume there’s 2 of them and there’s no other kills. A Bodyguard block would be nice for us How'd you have a bad gut read on JNV before they posted? Did you read their post before posting? interesting point join the movement, give me boxings I thinkt he case against Devo and Tani is about equal, but you didn't give me a good reason to vote Devo there, so I'm left wondering if you just want me to move to my secondary suspect FYI just quote some more people's posts to survive

So actually I was wrong, thanks for clarifying. But does this apply to how the votes look at the end or how they are when a vote is cast? For example, pretend no one votes and I make a dozen posts all voting for a different person each time. Would I get 12 boxings or just one for the final vote? People should (theoretically, not in practice) be getting enough Active on the Floor credit to survive through to the next round, allowing for vote flexibility. Speaking of which, the current thread state is pretty non-committal. That subject to change vote doesn't help us consolidate very well. I think my suspicions of TUN were born out of not understanding the rules, so where I'm at right now is Tani is top sus, then Devo has had two posts I thought were either village or not village but not null. I didn't clock what Devo means about Mat so clarification there would be good. Anyone want to join me on Tani? vote=Tani

Other people have done a good job explaining what a CC (Contribution Crusade) and welcome pokes are, so I'll focus on the first part here. Hi, by the way! Welcome to the game. Self voting would normally suicidal, but my logic is hopefully the self vote will be removed eventually and shifted elsewhere. If it sticks, that means I'm dying but refusing to let anyone profit from it directly. Which is just damage mitigation. You keep saying that voting gives you a boxing, I think implying that you believe that the head of every train gets a boxing. I am pretty sure it’s just the leader of the train that gets someone killed. Voting only enriches one person per round, as far as I know. I might be wrong though I'll +1 that sentiment, with the caveat that some people here will answer in bad faith as they are on the opposite team. So your GM PM is your best resource for definitively true answers. This is correct. There's two Pay Money to Live Longer mechanics and I named the wrong one. Actually a lot of actions can be described like that, but those two confuse me the most. I started with no boxings, which I assumed was universal. My assumption is that for meta reasons, you aren’t super committed to killing Clanky. I also assume that the elims are likely to avoid pushing successful wagons if they don’t have to because the spiteful victims of those will be gung-ho about sending Assassins after people. So appearing to pressure someone you don’t think will die today is a good way of parking a vote without risking much retaliation. And advertising it as a poke lessens the chances that someone will add to it and put you in a tight spot. It’s very clearly right there in the rules. The old rules. For a different game. All you have to do is look at an outdated doc and you’ll find it’s a very important element :3. (It’s fifty. Just write fifty words, two hundred is a waste of your time.) Pfft who has time for PMs. I think they’d be useful places to coordinate bidding so that we use our money as efficiently as possible, but you don’t get boxings for talking in secret so… Interestingly they appear to be group PMs. Brave move on the GM’s part. Good reminder, Devo Clearly the fabulous plan actually makes it less likely that you'll be exed, but based on the assumption that elims don't act out much, this tracks. I was just going to screenshot the bot near rollover. That should have all the information we need. I've read the rules cover to cover several times tying to understand how boxing-generation works and I still don't get it. I reject this baseless flattery. If anyone was going to start with boxings, it'd be an undersized elim team. Basically that

Counter point: you won't survive to spend that money if you should earn it. I view it as more of a mutually assured destruction bid than something you want to happen the robot doesn't like me because I made a lovely post but because it didn't quote anyone it didn't count for anything :(. luckily Xino likes me because apparently they made the game easier. Yay. As this point I'm committed to all the things but I most definitely will be giving up on them next round. That better be 50 or I'll report the count bot to the mods and have it ban hammered /s Not that I know of, but if Tani says otherwise I'd be happy to vote them for it. This is either very villagery formatting or very looking for village cred. Not sure which. Are you asking... did they... stick around :D. I have an opposite philosophy about people I've only just met, but each to their own. If I had to properly vote right now, I'd be on Tani for reacting to a poke vote on them by appearing, advertising a poke as a poke, and applying pressure on a welcome poke. Second choice would be TUN for copying my idea but for weird justification. Then JNV because they're going to die to the bribe filter anyway so they're a decent CC choice. Who are you guys suspicious of?

>.> I guess that makes sense coming from you, but the result is the vote count right now is me and you tied for the lead from self-voting. I really thought people would throw down some stab votes that conveniently wouldn't ever move. It's free money, gang, stake your ground. “WHY are they saying I’m voting for myself, McCharles?” “You put your name in red, McCarty. That’s a self vote in these impeachment proceedings.” “I did NO such thing! I very clearly put it in GREEN. I detest using red, it’s such an unsightly shade.” McCarty’s secretary sighed. His employer’s color-blindness made his political tact unwieldy at times, but as his uncle, it was his responsibility to take care of him. “Did you hear of the death this morning, sir?” “I didn’t need to!” McCarty started waving a sword for dramatic effect. “Everyone saw the green sun rise – BLOOD has been spilt this night!” “You mean red sun.” “I’m your nephew, not your son. Quit making mistakes, I already feel my face beginning to flush bright…” “Red.” “RED. I’m turning red! With ANGER at this murder. What’s next!” The NK also comes before the Assassain, so there's a high incentive to simply snipe anyone who gets enough boxings to threaten that, especially if they're the only person who gets enough for it. My gut would say that people are more likely to go for the kill than to Bodyguard themselves if they have the money for either. So the elims could probably bet on that, but its an IKYK. the robot doesn't like me. :/ But yes, 200 is a lot. I have started doing the student thing where you break up contractions so you get two words for the price of one. As for bidding wars, I think that buying bribes is a waste of time. We can create more money than would be generated otherwise if we all shift to the winning train near the end of the cycle, so vote manip should have limited potential. I will note though that it's the type that provides a two vote shift on a pair of opposing trains. Minus one from the one, plus one to the other. I imagine they'll only be relevant if we run into money troubles and the elims gather a nest egg. Fun fact, by the way, the Assassain ability is worded so that an elim using it has their bribe increased automatically, because hitting a villager triggers the increase. So they'll probably leave it alone, which gives them more cash to spend elsewhere. Not knowing the refill rate of the actions shop, I'm tempted to suggest buying things like bribes just to take them off the board, but I don't think we can afford that. Yeah, that other game is still in my head. The way I understand it now, feel free to correct me if I am wrong, is that a quote response gets you a boxing per person, then if they are 200 words responses, that total puts you in contention for the Loudest Voice prize. @xinoehp512 what happens if there's a tie for this? I assume a random single person gets it, but I won't say no to multiple people getting rich. :P. Lets look at how quickly you can earn yourself an Assassain fee. There's eight other players, minus two each round. So 6 in C2, 4 in C3. You spend 3 boxings a cycle paying off the bribe. So your earnings are (8-3)=5, (6-3)=3, (4-3)=1, then we're into negative territory, which is an interesting wrinkle. At the end of C3 you've earned nine boxings, although you could forgo the bribe in an act of self sacrifice and strike at the end of C2 with your 11 boxings stockpile. Or you may have gained boxings from any other source, which would allow you to less recklessly strike C2, but the 6 boxing toll the next round will effectively kill you. Actually killing an extra person messes those calculations up. And the possibility of bidding wars. Well now I feel bad for making Xino's vote tally code obsolete by keeping my vote stable. I also like the approach of just writing things and seeing if the robot likes it, because if I don't get at least 4 points from this post I will just be giving up and playing as normal. I am of a split mind when it comes to revealing your potential purchases. On the one hand, we should all claim to be buying the Bodyguard item for an outrageous price every single round so the elims have a harder time picking NK targets or overpay to keep it out of our hands. I also think that everyone should maintain a stockpile of as many boxings as possible so they're able to buy items like the Bodyguard. Otherwise the NKs will exclusively target rich people and the elims will have an easy time picking off the survivors who can't afford to outbid them on anything. The nightmare scenario is two elims buy vote manips and have a 4 vote bloc to work with. I doubt they'll risk hammering and getting outbid, thus foiling their plot and revealing who they are, but it'd be a good idea to have enough money spread among the village that boxings aren't ever a problem. sorry about the long post, I had to get some 200 word responses in

I've come up with a strategy to deter casual votes on me: self voting! If it looks like I'm going to die, my vote will not shift, thus depriving anyone else of Leader of Discussion boxings. Otherwise, expect a late change of my vote. Ideally too late for anyone to profit from it. (Active in the Floor) Money generating engagement question: do you all plan on dropping a vote and leaving it be until the last minute, or do you intend to shift your votes around? I can understand wanting to engage in the former approach, I'll just ask that you say things like "My red vote is elsewhere right now, but I'm probably going to land on Player X" instead of giving no updates on your developing suspicions. Friendly reminder that you need to get at least three boxings today to survive, which can most easily be achieved by quoting three other people. As I mentioned to Xino during the committee stage, I imagine a number of people will try to use the Assassin ability on their way out the door if they're exed, assuming they can gather enough boxings for it. They have the advantage of not needing to save money for the next round. Banking on elim competence, Team Evil will probably know which targets can and can't do this and match their aggression accordingly, or outbid them when possible. I'd urge restraint, but it's a QF so a quicker pace isn't a terrible thing. That's got to be 200 words by now right Vote=Archer

Wow, this is cool. In case of a dispute, I recommend you write some hard rules about voting to fall back on. For example, codify that only the first vote in a post counts, =s always trump red text, typos will not be accepted even if the intention is clear, what the list of acceptable name iterations is etc. Alternatively, be less strict about it, but then advertise that the bot is unofficial and your hand tally will take priority. I'll play as Senator McCarty who hates the color red but is also red/green color blind. So he hates a lot of things. Vote=TUN. (I'm checking whether votes in post quotes get read.) Edit: all forms of quotes do appear to be exempt from the scan

In retrospect, I think the easiest workaround for players would be to do the add an e for every subsequent letter thing, then c/p it out and get Excel to count the number of e's in each cell. Then do find and replace each number into letters. But at the end of the day, unless you have a PM or a compulsive secret keeper, the only helpful things you can communicate beyond general advice would be your targets. No ciphers required for that. So intensely gatekeeping this doesn't seem super necessary. I think TUN guessed you were in the doc, but I took that as fact, assuming they'd clocked something I missed. Then got salty that you weren't helping our team, which led to a lot of personal confusion. I should have realized you'd have been more recognizable if you had been in the doc. Also I pegged Hoid immediately because their doc and thread openers were the same. To follow up on some HS paranoia, I probably would have asked for a HS kill to keep things balanced if I wasn't confident about our elim based on Hoid's claim and knowledge of my own alignment. In a larger game though, I'm not sure we'd have been a good position to demand that. If we start with balanced teams, even if the elims are NKing opposite the exe, if the NK is blocked, the larger team controls play going forward and should be able to maintain at least a one man advantage in perpetuity.

First of all, I'd like to apologize for the state of the Cryptic doc. View at your own risk. :P. -The benefits of both teams mass identity claiming and all voting for the other side C1 are pretty clear, but in this case, the need to maintain parity by NKing the other side actually discouraged that. Shoutout to Mat for reading the elim kill choice well. -I think the situation where the village is willing to cooperate AND knows the last elim AND is confident in who the Defectors are led to an ending that wasn't Selfish at all, but was a little anticlimactic. But the odds of all those lining up again in a larger game are low. -We shamelessly exploited the flaws that the low player count revealed whenever possible, including the POE to catch Xino, and getting the Symph isn't evil inactivity clear. -I liked my role. I was trying hard C1 to kill a HS and then 'accidentally' be the most obviously Cryptic person so I'd get NKed, but the whole Mat confusion happened (sorry TUN) and so the role became a nice threat to anyone who would try and kill me. It's a pretty powerful role, especially with the screeching communications workarounds discussed, or even having a partner smart enough to go down the player list and say 'did X kill you? Did Y kill you?'. Especially with roles being revealed upon death. -I thought Kas' role was cool. Well balanced for a vote manip. I want to give a shoutout to the new players, who all received unusual alignments and played them well. Hoid, you were admirably ruthless and used your PM well. Wizard, being a solo elim is always tough, and I think you came close to convincing your doc to kill me instead C3. Thanks for choosing my side for the win, I like the decision to kill the vote manip in that situation. And Symph/Books, good job being our ace in the hole! I wish I'd caught on to what you were doing sooner, but you helped us get the victory with your voting. I look forward to playing with all of you again in the near future. Thank you for running this, IM, GMs. This game packed a punch despite its size.

Good to know. So basically the best we can do is 2v2v1 to 2v1 (elim won’t do that because they’ll lose). Or to 1v1v1, which means the elim picks the winner. Versus if we exe the elim, we end up at 2v1v0. So again, the elim chooses the winner. So if we assume elim competence, there’s no great way out with a joint victory. I don’t suppose being exed stops you from submitting the NK? @Devotary of Spontaneity If we want to kill a HS, Symph, we must vote for Kas because of his role. I think the HS will probably win a head to head matchup of C vs HS because of Symph’s inactivity, so the most advantageous play here is for me to suggest we consolidate on Wiz and let them decide who wins. I like ending the game by voting for an elim on principle anyway. But if you HS guys have the opportunity to hammer your way to victory at EoD, I’ll understand that you’re pursuing your wincon. Hm. Interesting result.

Or maybe I’m intentionally publicly misrepresenting the rules to prove Mat wrong. :P. Thank you for the breakdown, and the correction. With respect to the possibility of a joint win, I understand that your faction is under no obligation to orchestrate one, but I will point out that intentionally exing someone you know to be not evil seems counter-productive, regardless of the game plan. Doing my due diligence, would you mind back reading the emissary PM to determine whether Hoid might have taken inspiration from it to service a Defector lie? I think it’s reasonable to assume they didn’t independently pull that off unless someone brought up the role. Oh. I just realized something. We are tied and Symph is the Cryptic Defector. That’s why they asked me who I was voting for. So right now it’s Cryptics: Me and Symph. HS: Hoid and Kas. Evil: Wizard. HS!Symph would be playing against their wincon if they lied about being Cryptic, so if they out themselves, would the HS be willing to take a reasonable gamble on exing the final elim for a joint win? @HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES @SymphonianBookworm Wizard

So here's the thing. You're in a faction with three people that wins when the elim dies. I am not the elim. If two members of your faction die today, it'll be a three way tie: one Cryp, one Honor, one elim. If I vote you out, I lose because the elim reaches parity with me. If I vote the elim out, I win because we'll kill the last elim and have equal numbers - which is a shared wincon. huh what a coincidence you've all decided to vote for me at the same time :D. Can someone tell me if the calculation is get rid of the other faction then win through force of numbers, or do you think I'm evil? Just want to know which way to defend myself Edit edit: I'm not evil because Devo wouldn't make the Crypto team have only one player on it And if you don't have a clear idea of which of Wizard or Symph the elim is, your final round will be Hoid vs those two with no clear idea of who to shoot. Unless you have some role stuff going on. Kas is cleared from C1, why not take the easy win? edit: time for some RP

Oh cool. I'll reiterate my threat that I will out whoever night kills me, making attacking me mutually assured destruction. I'm also outnumbered by the other village faction, so I need a mix and an NK, then I'll happily kill the final elim with y'all. Unless Kas really is evil, I don't forsee not knowing who the final elim is next round, so I'm just hoping whichever you choose of Symph and Wiz is wrong. If you're an elim in danger, I'll throw you a bone by voting against the majority pick this round. Maybe you'll get lucky with vote manip or something. @SymphonianBookworm sorry I almost voted you last round

well either Xino is gambling and bussing someone who might be a teammate. Or I thought maybe they knew from an emissary PM. They haven't claimed their role yet so it's an option option. It's pinging me that Xino dismissed the possibility of me being evil as an option today - which hard commits them to the doubled up evil pair, but they didn't lay that out so I wonder if maybe they're Plus, *plot twist* I have that P role that lets you see who killed you, which I consider to be a power role. So I think TUN and I would have been balanced as a team just us. Don't murder me, elims. when your only elim candidates are just low actives, that means your wrong so xino (Symph) Edit: "My reasoning really just boils down to Books being up for the filter kill/replacement on failing the check-in in one more cycle." wait not that's a terrible reason >.>

TUN started by suggesting roleclaims. I replied with my own, Hoid eventually threw his in/ what he thought was a role. Is it an alignment? Anyway, could Mat claim to have protected Kas now? I'm banking on him being the only one with the foresight to have done that. Makes them both clears to me. If it was someone else, I'd love to hear that. I think the double defector thing just kills the point of the docs, so I like the idea of doubling up elims. Or just give my side some sweet roles, which they did. Remember TUN could redirect NKs off of himself. Don't have much time for long posts right now, but I'm in split the difference mode. It's either Xino-Wiz/Symph or Symph/Wiz. So, I guess I'll vote the overlap? Far as I can tell, e!Xino doesn't know who his elim teammate is, so no harm +1ing him. Symphony (xino) Edit: it's not e-e emissary's right. If that's an option I'll switch to Wiz because my trust in Xino is low

Ok I'm thinking straight now and I completely messed up. My thought process so far: >TUN told the doc Mat was on our team and I didn't question it >Figured he was quiet because we were locked out of the doc for a while due to a perms issue >Saw that the top candidates were TUN, Mat, me. All teammates so it was a lose-lose >Wanted to vote Mat on principle, talked myself out of it because my gut read him as village, despite things >Sighed and voted TUN ... >Turns out my other doc mate was Xino??? I'd like to call Hoid's EOD (last hour I'm guessing?) doc talk performative but idek. I'll note that Xino was on at EOD, which is an elim move. Hoid also claimed, quite hilariously, approximately "I'M YOUR TEAMMATE, FOR I'M AN HONORSPREN TRAITOR." Which I'm taking to mean Defector, which is a ridiculous lie for a solo first time elim to make. We were roleclaiming so that wasn't out of the blue really. They came on late in the round and made some very panicked statements and tried to work with TUN. So POE says Xino is our elim. And as the last remaining member of my faction, I'm pretty screwed. Or did Devo give me a traitor or put both elims in one doc. I figure the odds of those cancel each other out so I'll ignore them as possibilities. Xino (Mat)

The way I see it, we've just had two village flips, so there's a 1 in 3 chance of hitting an elim regardless of which team we target. But cryptos lack the votes in a head to head and insist on cannibalizing so might as well bite the bullet and hope to walk away with two intact. To me anyway it's a coinflip. I thought TUN was recognizable, so I'll reiterate my confusion about Mat's voting.

I'm voting TUN. And at this stage in the round, a single vote on someone won't do much unless its coupled with several other votes. Like the ones on TUN. Buuut. If you just copy my vote without providing any general thoughts about who your trusts and suspects are it becomes difficult to read you and pins all the blame for an accidental village kill on me so. I suggest owning responsibility for your vote. TUN is a pure POE vote and I'm not at all confident in it. not me thinking hoid was on my team i thought you were a cryptic bro, bro, we were gonna talk about blockchain currencies I'm also very confused about which side TUN is on now. Nobody correct me, ambiguity is technically great. Just fabulous because necessary evils rock And um, actually, not being able to access Google Docs isn't as uniquely identifying as you might think right now ;D.

Basically what I was going for this round was primary motivation: vote off another faction. Secondary motivation: vote off a likely elim. Ideally do both at once but the other faction hasn't given me much to go off of and uh, certain individuals seem dead set on voting off their teammates. :P. Which will actually become the basis of my suspicion. I believe I've clocked every member of my team, so Mat has too and so his votes don't make sense. At all. Too late now to salvage it, so I'll swing for a weak elim read. But then the reaction test thing didn't make sense for an elim. Sigh. I guess the upside of 3 confirmed villagers would be nice, if this works out. TUN (Kas) Wanna kill somebody with me? :D.

I'd 100% do that in a time crunch game like this If you haven't noticed, Mat and I have very different approaches to this game So what's the tipping point here? You want to see who was right or wrong with their kill targets? Who sticks to their guns? The flaw to this approach is villagers are often wrong and elims pick kills that confuse onlookers so it's not obvious who they are. but I didn't even try to sabatoge my advice for the new players :3

Thing is the survivor can only get one elim's support. They don't know who the other is, so even if they join forces, they might end up exing the second elim anyway. Depends if they hammer it right I guess. You put people in a bad position when you ask that mid game because two players here (the evil eliminatiors) are incentized to respond in bad faith so you'll be less of a threat. Very generally, we're voting someone out of the game. Red means vote, green means unvote. Whoever collects the most votes will be removed. Meanwhile, the evil team is also planning on killing someone. So next round will have 6 players, then 4 etc. Some people have special actions they can use that are explained in their GM PM. You should submit your action by telling the GM what you want to do. You should then vote on who you find most suspicious. You're looking for the people who are trying to sabatoge the team into making bad execution choices. So look for illogical arguments and stuff you don't agree with and challenge people to defend their reasoning. Feel free to ask your GM PM for unbiased advice. My case for Kas boils down to his doc location is known so he's a lost cause anyway. :P. Hi! What information do you feel you're missing? And is there a way to get it before the next round? Ignore this box:

Woops quoted the wrong thing. Anyway, I meant signal as in establish a certain exe outcome so that the NK choice can be deliberated and submitted more in advance than it might otherwise be. Signal to consolidate the vote around an easy option. I can see that post (ha, did quote the right one) being a reaction test. Actually more like Mat kicking the beehive than laying a trap. Given how poorly they're pitching it, I don't think there was much forethought. I'll give him the usual pass for acting more proactively than an elim would want to be. Edit: *provocatively So let's pursue the more cautious Kas (Mat)