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WoR chapter 74 Striding the Storm Kaladin & Shallan survive the highstorm together in the Chasms. Then in OB chapter 27 Playing Pretend While in Urithiru Adolin tells Shallan that Kaladin was the one that killed her brother, the shardbearer, Helaran. So how far apart did these two events occur? (From when Kaladin realizes it to when Shallan realizes it) I’m not great a timelines, but I know many of you out there are. @maxal if I recall correctly, you have a countdown going as to how long Adolin has been in Urithiru. I’m guessing that it’s been about a month between these two events — but that is just a wild guess. Please share your thoughts — I want to know! Thanks!

@Patrick Star That was my first thought as well. The three moons are purple, green, and blue.

Wow. Sounds like exactly what happened to Dalinar. @maxal, I enjoyed your beautiful, well-articulated thoughts on Kaladin, Shallan, & Adolin very much. I read your post out loud to the other people on my house who have read or listened to Stormlight and we all disagreed on the circumstances when Kaladin figured out that the shardbearer was. So we looked it up and reread it, here are some of our combined thoughts Chapter 74: Striding the Storm (WoR) So Shallan was not being completely truthful with Kaladin about her abilities at this point. Shallan asks Kaladin to tell her a story to keep her mind occupied on something other than the storm So Kaladin is confiding in Shallan here too. But not confiding everything . . . Had Shallan asked the hard questions, would Kaladin answered them honestly? They were not asked. Would they have figured it out together? It’s not like he shied away from questions. He didn’t know at this point who the shardbearer was. And here are Kaladin’s thoughts as he listened to Shallan — when Kaladin makes the connection. Just as Shallan listened and didn’t interrupt Kaladin’s story — Kaladin returned the respect. I reminder to Kaladin that he is holding a bethroed woman in his arms. And then the stormfather comes for a visit (I’d say that was a bit distracting) Kaladin suspected that Shallan hadn’t been truthful with him about her abilities Now with the evidence that the sphere had not been dropped, but drained, Kaladin is wondering about her radiantcy and that fact that he killed her brother Helaran is no longer forefront in his mind, His mind didn’t even dwell on her wet, tattered dress— but on the loss of Syl. And while he is in his thoughts Shallan falls alseep and he follows her lead (again) Now it is easy to argue that Kaladin could have brought up that he killed Helaran when they were later harvesting the gem-heart or when they were finding their way back to camp. But he didn’t and we don’t know if he thought of it and was avoiding it, or if he was so physically and mentally distracted that he didn’t consider it again. It seems to me that the didn’t get another chance to really talk after this. The confided in / confidence in / trusting each other concept rings true to me — but I don’t see any sign of conscious dis-trust or willfully witholding information with the intention to deceive. (About Helaran) (there was some about radiancy) I really believe that it was all circumstantial. I’m looking forward to how it plays out. Mr Brandon Sanderson has certainly set it up to be a very good story no mater where the ending takes us. (And I’m enjoying every minute) there is plenty of foreshadowing from this weeks chapters (what would Jasnah think?) that I believe Shallan will understand where Kaladin was coming from. I think the part where it will get crazy is the information we will get from the ghost bloods as to why Helaran was there that day in the first place to kill Amaram.

Yes, @Wittiest man alive it was brought up, but I didn’t see a post with an definitive answer. The only concurance was that yes, there were a lot of people in the room. Since Shallan wasn’t standing next to Dalinar perhaps other people didn’t realize it was one of her powers? Perhaps others were led to believe that it was fueled by Stormlight like the elevators. Perhaps no one thought to ask?

I’m not saying that I’m correct — but my first thought when I saw this post was that it was an allomantic metal vile. That’s what they looked liked in my mind anyway.

So I had to go look that scene up. Here it is if anyone else is interested Chapter 52 into the Sky WoR Thank you for drawing my attention to this. Since playing the flute is considered a woman’s hobby, and Amaram is not married, does Amaram play the flute, or does he collect them for another reason? I’ll be watching!

My thoughts are similiar in that we still don’t have all of Dalinar’s backstory. These things could have easily already happened in the past — we just don’t know about them . Dalinar could have had many near death experiences. The other thing that really stands out to me about the author of Oathbringer is that the author needs to have a connection to Oathbringer the sword. It’s easy to understand why Dalinar would write (dictate) a book about Oathbringer — he carried the sword for decades. Sadeas also has a valid claim for being the author because he had also bonded the sword and it was almost his when Dalinar first “earned” it . Perhaps the author of Oathbringer is the person who ends up finding the Oathbringer sword that was tossed out the window. While Jasnah as the author makes sense on so many levels, what is her connection to Oathbringer? Dalinar isn’t her biological dad, is he? I know there is a WoB saying that Adolin & Renarin are legitimately Dalinar & Evi’s — is there something similiar about Jasnah? Could Dalinar be her father? We know they were close, and Dalinar did give her the shards he won. With this published timeline Jasnah was born before Dalinar was married but Elkohar likely wasn’t . So Oathbringer is a sword, and now a book. What else is Oathbringer? And who has a connection to it? Another thought I had about “I thought I was dead” was what if Evi sacrificed herself for Dalinar’s life. The pain of living with the knowledge that Evi sacrificed herself for him when he didn’t love her back could be worse than death. There is also the possibility that many have already speculated — and has been reinforced by this weeks flashback chapter — that Dalinar killed Evi while under the influence of the thrill. I’m sure we will see worse behavior from Dalinar later in the book. If Dalinar did kill Evi then he had to care/love/respect her enough to feel guilt/pain/remorse/loss over her death. The entire Navani/Dalinar/Evi relationship is beginning to remind me of Prince Charles (the man) and his young wife Diana (Evi) and then his first love turned mistress Camilla (Navani) whom he later marries. It doesn’t help that both couples had two sons. @Starla I really, really, really want this to come true! @Michael Portz thanks for those Odium references !

I hadn’t seriously considered Amaram as the author of Inworld Oathbringer book before — but what if Oathbringer the Sword is found and then given to Amaram/Highprince Sadeas. What if Kaladin was the one that found the sword and had to give it to him? (Ok, he would not actually touch the sword ) I’m hoping that we get to understand more of Amaram’s pasts and motives.

@Stark I think I am confused. That would explain some things. The unmade are not the Dysian Aimians. Time for some more research so I can understand this better. Thanks for claryfying that. I believed they were the same . (I’m out of upvotes but I’ll give you one later once mine replenish)

I have questions about this. I thought we saw an unmade in Edgedancer and again in one of the interludes — (the cook on the ship) but they were both in human form. So you mean unmade in their natural form? In the Ars Arcanum the Essence SPARK is listed as Chaco/Ruby/the soul/fire/brave. Seems strange For an essence and Spren to both have the same name I think so . . . I am nodding my head in agreement. Voidbringers can be recruited amongst any type of creature — but I’m guessing that the recruitment process differs among species I felt the same way. I feel that there is still something left untold in this story that we will come to understand later in the book. It was a beautiful illustration. Yes — and the perhaps helped in the confidence lounges too! So @Steeldancer you’ve had me singing Les Mis all night and again this morning. Can’t get the tune out of my head now. Red & black will never be the same again! Red: the blood of angry men!Black: the dark of ages past!Red: a world about to dawn!Black: the night that ends at last! Dalinar entering Shadesmar is a big question - one that would need to be answered if it was him. The Almighty and the One could be the same being — just called two different names by two different cultures although. @Aleksiel has a different take on that — which I also find plausible — but I’d like to think they are the same “power” I’m thinking that humans could be voidbringers but not all voidbringers are human @Daishi5 I agree. If Dalinar killed some of his own elite men (it is possible that they were killed by the enemy but I think all their eyes were burnt out, so maybe not?) then maybe those men were sent to “talk him out” of the thrill and were unsuccessful. The Blackthorns only order was to “stay out of my way” so I guess those he killed with the shardblade didn’t follow orders? (I know — it sounds terrible when saying it out loud) When talking someone down you don’t want to indicate that they have done anything wrong or perhaps they will kill you too. It’s the whole “white man who abuses (or is consumed with) power” debate. Dalinar was the most powerful man that day. @DocHoliday I thought that the room was pretty full of people and scribes. Perhaps they played it off as a power from that room or something. Thanks for the link. I finally watched the video with sound and then googled it on several sites. I guess that both are correct? You are welcome! It helps to read it all together. But I agree with your observations— there are several statements in the text that do point away from Dalinar (at least from what we know about him today) and personality wise it could support several characters we already know. @Blacksmithki good point on the “thing” not being a kandra. I like your train of thought on that. Probably not a kandra. More likely a spren of some sort. Goes along more with the Roshar world. I’ve only read the first 9 pages of comments so far but I’ll keep checking in . . . .

My initial thought was that it was Hoid watching her (that he and Jasnah had entered Uruthiru quietly like Amaram had done) but then when the figure ran I figured it probably wasn’t Hoid after all. But it could have been a real person and that Shallan happened upon the mystery thing. What ever that mystery thing is, I’m pretty sure it was a witness to the murder of Sadeas I wonder if Rock saw the face that attacked him and if Shallan or Adolin could interview him and make a sketch of what the attacker’s looked like. Now if the “thing” can change its appearance it might not help — but there has to be some limits on its power to change. (Kandra have to have time to digest new bones, etc) and perhaps the thing was also feeding off of Shallans plethora of Stormlight

I haven't read any other reactions yet so here is goes . . . . Oathbringer Preface Othbringer Preface Chapters 1-27 spoiled for length As I've mentioned before, I feel like I have whiplash each week as I'm convinced of the author of Oathbringer. This week I'm back to thinking that Dalinar is the author. Most painfully -- he killed Evi (who loved him dearly). That is my thought (for this week at least) As I reread the preface of what we have so far, it does fit -- although I would like to know more about his youth and Shadesmar experience if it truly is him. Chapter 25 The Girl Who Looked Up The Strata is described as veins! This is so exciting. It's carrying something. Power? A Message (such as one would expect from writing in a book)? Is it a hidden fabrial? I tend to think that it may manifest itself in a new form -- such as the combination of of Shallan & Dalinar's powers created the map -- maybe having all ten orders represented in Urithiru will then facilitate this "message" to be revealed. But is this a good message or an evil message? The emerald cast is the color of Palah and Primary attribute is LEARNED. So what are we to question here? What isn't normal on this planet? The storms? The Ryshadium horses? the spren? The Shardblades? I was disappointed with the the ending of Shallan's story-telling. I feel like we didn't quite get the full ending. Did anyone else feel that this line should have read "she snuck from her home"? Color & Spren Observations for Chapter 25 spoiled/hidden for length Chapter 26: Blackthorn Unleashed So Evi "gets" Dalinar. She understands him -- and "The One" -- that has to be the Stormfather -- right? I like Evi so much! It saddens me to see the lack of passion from Dalinar because he is such a passionate man. The line he hugged her with a "limp gesture" conveyed so much. Dalinar wondering what he would have to do to earn the ardents displeasure had me chuckling. Sebarial! You supply line mastermind. You know how to play both sides and manipulate everyone -- always coming out on top. The redness in the vision when under THE THRILL. I do not remember this from previous THRILL experiences. Very interesting to me. Is this the first instance of the color red being associated with THE THRILL? please let me know if it isn't. I'll try to search for it myself later as well. Also Dalinar "sensing a strange rhythm to the fighting, as if the blows of his sword needed to fall to the dictates of some unseen beat. " Interesting that the Thrill doesn't seem to care which side wins -- as long as there is fighting. OK -- so I realized something while reading this chapter that I hadn't noticed before. (and I noticed it before read chapter 27 -- but after 27 and the reference to the horses -- I am wondering even more). So -- Ryshadium horses had musicspren around them. I found that fascinating. How do musicspren compare to the rhythms that exist on Roshar? Are musicspren drawn to the rhythms? They were present in the WoK prologue when the Parshendi drummers were drumming for Szeth. Do the Ryshadium horses speak/understand the rhythms? Ry=Rhythms Sha=Shadows Dium=Odium So I know that Ryshadium = Rhythms, Shadows, Odium is kind of a stretch here -- but that is what I thought while I was reading this chapter today. Lots of stuff going on with the rhythms. Color & Spren Observations for Chapter 26 spoiled/hidden for length Chapter 27: Playing Pretend Welcome to Urithiru Highprince Meridas Amaram Sadeas (and you didn't even have to marry Ialai) I'm glad that Shallan found out/figured out about Kaladin killing her brother when Kaladin wan't around. It will give her time to process. It does raise the question again what do the Ghostbloods know about Amaram? I love that Jasnah popped into her head too. I'm guessing now that we won't see Jasnah or Wit/Hoid in part 1 at all -- if so maybe in the last chapter. ok, because I was thinking about the horses . . . . Adolin wanted to go and visit the horses -- it calmed him -- he is drawn to them. But what in the world does this mean? I knew she would find something in her drawings but I was not anticipating something this gruesome and were they regular horses or Ryshadium horses?

So this caught my attention on a reread/relisten of WoK page 823 I wonder if Adolin will become Odium’s champion to protect his family’s honor somehow - not because he is joining Odium — but because of some oath that someone in his family made that they didn’t fully understand the ramifications of. Being born under the sign of nine could just be another foreshadowing of this.

Wax! Yes, that is where I’ve seen it recently in a Brandon Sanderson book. It is also a trait of a character in the book The False Prince by Jennifer Nielsen. (I’m sure there are other characters out there as well) And just for the record the prologue to Oathbringer read like an Alcatraz book to me. Getting it all at once like that instead of in pieces made me realize that. Love reading your notes! So organized!!!

I feel like Dalinar would have noticed if his Brother in Law drastically changed appearance and became a swordmaster ardent. That’s just it . . . I agree with @Govir spoiler for War Breaker I’m still not convinced Vivenna is Evi but it could work if it is her I’m super curious as to her intentions ok — here is another tin foil thought if indeed Evi is Vivenna then maybe Dalinar’s boon/curse was to forget her when she wasn’t on Roshar. Maybe since he is remembering her now, she is back?!!!!!!

@CosmereQuestioner Evi as Vivenna the hair, the name (same letters in backwards order) Vivenna I really like the evidence supporting your conclusions. However — why in the world would she want to have children with Dalinar? If Evi really is Vivenna then that means Adolin & Renarin are Idris royalty. ( on Nalthis) And if I remember correctly the Idris people were the first rulers of Nalthis and hade some hereditary power connected to that. That would mean that Adolin and Renarin would have a part of the Nalthis power in their blood. How Stormlight would effect this power would be interesting indeed. Part of Dalinar’s curse/boon could be to forget his wife because he loved her and found who she really was and it broke his heart that he couldn’t be a world hopper with her and perhaps she had to leave Roshar for an important reason so she “died”. Maybe she just had to leave and left Vasher (zahel) to watch over the boys. So if Evi is Vivenna then we will see more of her I’m sure — but it does seem like a stretch — but could very well be a real thing. Also wasn’t Vivenna really good at controlling her hair color? From what we know now — she could have stolen the shard plate and just claimed to be a princess. No one from her land actually followed her and could have vouched for her. Her brother Toh could have been a world hopper too. They believed that she was who she said she was because she had the plate. I’m also sure Vivenna was well trained in diplomacy/acting! I’ll be watching for more clues to this.

@Cowmanthethird perhaps I do misunderstand thank you for the explanation — something for me to think about — I hadn’t considered that before But we all agree that the parshendi/parshmen were at one time the one and the same. They were all Listeners, and then were split (for whatever reason by either 1) themselves, 2) the Gods/forms of power over Roshar, 3) humans, or 4) an unknown influence) into two groups. These two groups then became parshendi & parshmen. It doesn’t appear to me that the two groups knew about each other until recently. It is possible that the parshmen chose willingly to give up their forms as a sacrifice for a greater good -or it was a form of punishment as @Cowmanthethird has point out. The Parshendi (either to avoid the punishment) or because they didn’t want to sacrifice their forms like the other group did. My thoughts tell me that in order for the power/reason that separated them to be overcome that the Listeners(both parshendi & parshmen) will have to return to full Listeners and unite with the humans. Which is the reason they were “separated” in the first place — to keep them from being united against this power/force. As I’m typing this I’m not sure it makes sense anymore. Anyone else out there want to try to clarify my thoughts for me and help me understand? @Andy92 thanks for your post. So slaveform would pretty much be “no form”? I guess I still don’t understand the whole voidbringer thing. Are we sure that voidbringers are the parshmen? I know people think that — but do we know? That part has always confused me and Lift sure didn’t help me with that at all. @StormingTexan —seeing Mraize with Oathbringer would be amusing. Here is the recent evidence we found . . . . Use it to find the murderer!!!!! But who found it? Mraize found it — then he must be the murderer!!! (Although I don’t think Adolin would/could accuse anyone else) he might stand by while Shallan did though.

@Blacksmithki Yes. The parshendi and the parshmen. They were both parshendi and then part of them abandoned all forms and became “enslaved” as parshmen in order to save the parshendi race.

Im not sure the humans were the ones who enslaved the Parshindi. It seems to me that they purposely enslaved theirselves.

@maxal thank you for that Torol and Ialai quote. @Toaster Retribution Thank you for the WoB I didn’t realize that Sadeas’s death by Adolin was foreshadowed — but it sounds like it was hinted at. I was thinking about Mraize being with Ialai. What if she is going to ask Adolin if she can have Mraize join Adolin’s investigation? Have a representative on the team? Do avoid bias . Adolin would have a hard time denying her request. Then it would be Shallan, Adolin, & Mraize working together Then Mraize & Shallan could interact publicly in Urithiru without causing suspicion. That could get interesting. I really don’t believe Ialai knows who her husbands killer was — other than suspecting someone in Dalinar’s camp. As as to how much Ialai knows about the copycat killings (I’m guessing she is behind them) and the about the Ghostbloods (she is too well informed to not know anything about them) and about Mraize’s relationship with Shallan/Veil is yet to be known .

@Alderant & @SLNC thank you both for your responses. I guess I see where you are coming from. I didn’t really think before about Sadeas pushing Adolin to get at Dalinar and Adolin responding “stronger” than expected. I just saw the whole encounter where Sadeas was murdered as a random coincidence that no one could track the killer. Not that the murder was random — but the opportunity to murder was random and unexpected— therefore less likely to be found out. I could see Ialai trying to frame Adolin just to make life hard for Dalinar.

@Alderant & @SLNC thank you both for your responses. I guess I see where you are coming from. I didn’t really think before about Sadeas pushing Adolin to get at Dalinar and Adolin responding “stronger” than expected. I just saw the whole encounter where Sadeas was murdered as a random coincidence that no one could track the killer. Not that the murder was random — but the opportunity to murder was random and unexpected— therefore less likely to be found out. I could see Ialai trying to frame Adolin just to make life hard for Dalinar.

I don’t understand why anyone would suspect Adolin as Sadeas’s murderer. I get why “everyone” in Dalinar’s camp would be suspect — but not why Adolin would be singled out. The more people who are murdered in the same manner — then all the murderes will be blamed on one person. (Most likely the person who killed Sadeas @SLNC I liked your thoughts on Ialai response to Sadeas death. Again — what evidence is there against Adolin other than he belongs to house Dalinar? She may suspect Adolin — but why? Please, some one answer @Toaster Retribution Question. I wanna know too. So I know that Mraize is a world hopper because you guys told me. (I read Stormlight before I read any other Sanderson books — now I’ve read all his published stuff and understand the worldhopping thing a little bit) also Coopermind states that he is. How do we know that Mraize is a world hopper? Was that a WoB or should I have gleaned that from reading on my own? Can someone please point me to the evidence? Do we know who he is was in other books? And what his original planet was? @StormingTexan @Darkness @Erunion As for Zahel, I too assumed he has thousands of breaths in reserve and was subsisting on storm light while on Roshar He may have to use one this week — but no big deal, right? He should be up so many levels it shouldn’t make a difference

I had always assumed that it was a technique. In Szeth’s prologue it talks about him holding it in. I’m assuming here that Shallan held the storm light in and pushed it to where it healed her. But she wasn’t leaking it like Szeth. Yes very interesting. Here is the quote from the WoK prologue Ialai Sadeus likes spicy foods. just sayin’

As Usual -- first impressions without reading other responses. Chapter 19: The Subtle Art of Diplomacy Soulcasting & Emeralds = Emeralds are for wood, plants, and moss. 5 Palah; Learned, Giving Ialai -- I loved the observations about Ialai in this chapter. The creative way to "Get rid" of those problematic allies. That combined with her love of masculine food, tells me that she thinks more like a man! I was surprised to see her described as "squatter form". I had always imagined her elegant and beautiful and wickedly smart as she lounged on her furniture. Navani is curvy in compassion -- but I didn't see Ialai as squaty before. I'm sure we haven't even seen the beginning of Ialai's schemes. I still think she and Amaram will work together -- if not marry each other. So I had to look up Ephemeral. Here is the definition in case anyone else was wondering what the word meant. Ephemeral: lasting one day only; lasting a very short time and since I still had the dictionary open and I thought the women's description of Evi was important I wanted to be sure about the word vapid . . . Vapid: lacking flavor, zest, interest, animation, or spirit : flat, dull I really enjoyed the knife in this chapter and how it showed Dalinar in so many roles. A hungry, impatient man, a friend (he lent it to Teleb), a distraction (from Navani), how he bent the knife, how he went into the storm to retrieve it (his shortsightedness and impatience again) and a protector (from the assassin), and how he used the knife to eat afterwards. The killing didn't phase him at all. I'm guessing that one of the reasons Evi married him was so that he would protect her. I'm guessing he failed at that. Another observation is that the shardplate Toh/Evi took from Rira seems to have been more valuable and rare in Rira than it is in Alethkar. So maybe they were hoping to get more from it that what they actually got out of it. And what ever does happen to Toh? I don't think he is around in the present day. Color & Spren Observations for Chapter 19 spoiled/hidden for length Chapter 20: Cords to Bind So many wonderful discussion points and fantastic lines in this chapter that are timeless truths depicted from opposing sides that are hard to comprehend sometimes. (I hate needing your help, men who use cords to bind are fools, tools vs, weapons, your people should be the ones who decide upon our freedom in the first place.") This reads as foreshadowing to me. So what will be raggedly gouged by something dull? Whatever it is that the inhabitants of Roshar is fighting. (And I do think all of the inhabitants, pasrhmen, all human ethnicities, parshindi, included will have to band together to defeat it.) I'm guessing we will finish the Oathbringer book and still not fulling understand what is repeatingly gouging us. The yellowspren seems to be a void spren. It still doesn't have a name, but it has rhythms. So interesting. Color & Spren Observations for Chapter 20 spoiled/hidden for length Chapter 21: Set up to Fall First off the word Fall is not used in this chapter at all. So who is being set up to fall; and to fall from where? Besides the hilarious "No mating" again and the Mother Cultivation bits, There is a four way tie for my favorite lines from this chapter. I'm really enjoying the chapters with Adolin & Shallan together. There will be plenty of mystery on both sides. They are sharing intimate moments together (like just waking up) that is more old love, rather than new love. Since when has Shallan been more truthful? She is comfortable around Adolin, and lets her see her with her disheveled hair because she wants to be loved for who she really is -- not for what she pretends to be. These next few descriptions remind me of how Lift uses stormlight. Shallan needs some stormlight pancakes! Now to Urithiru and the Strata. "Not even the first level had been explored" -- What is yet to be found? The strata is wide here. And then the spoiling the strata in Sadeas area's. Is that blasphemous to paint the walls like that? What is that strata leading to or trying to tell us? So Shallan only knows the recent Dalinar. Obviously Adolin doesn't quite agree with Shallan's assessment of his father. Dalinar may be capable but the young Dalinar was not moral. What does Adolin remember about his father's past and his mother? Color & Spren Observations for Chapter 21 spoiled/hidden for length Gaz & Vathah -- OK, I can see that. Ialai -- the fact that she is on the throne is fascinating. Perhaps she doesn't need to marry Amaram after all for a pawn to her influential power. But Mraize? Wasn't expecting that . . . . . My thoughts are leading me to a situation where Ialai asks Adoling to investigate Sadeas murder as well and Adolin ends up turing himself in to save Shallan. Also Shallan has zero stormlight left. Zero. Good thing Syl hinted at a storm coming. But will it be 1 or 3 days? Will Adolin be able to get her out of this situation without stormlight? So much for not needing guards . . . . .