Spicker

It seems like Brandon really wants it to hit home that Renarin is a Truthwatcher We know there is something else going on, but not being a real radiant doesn't seem to be one of them. At least that is one thing we can hopefully cross off the list.

I don't know about anybody else, but it takes a lot of mental gymnastics for me to reconcile these two quotes. So they don't have innate powers, but they may have special powers of their own without the use of their Blades? I am hoping that this is just a result of not having the exact quote for the paraphrased WoB, because they sure sound like they contradict each other. That or one was made after he changed his mind about something. I might have to wait till we see it in the book to get a clear answer about this.

True, but you don't necessarily need tectonics to get volcanics. Although I do agree,I get the feeling that there are not volcanoes on Roshar. This just makes me wonder what mechanism replenishes the volatiles that are loss to space and solar degradation. But this a different topic so I will try not to keep posting about. It just really has me curious!

This can actually be quite complicated. A lower gravity would definitely affect air pressure gradients and thus oxygen levels, but it wouldn't be the only thing. it is hard to make that conclusion without knowing the average global temperatures, atmospheric composition, the strength of the radiation belt protecting Roshar's atmosphere from solar degradation, and contributing volatile/gas sources (I hear no mention of volcanics yet, which is a major volatile source on Earth). I don't want to hijack this topic and derail it, but suffice it to say that there is just too much we don't know about how Roshar works to be able to know how the gravity will affect the atmosphere. But to go back to what @hypatia was saying, Rock's comments imply there is a noticeable difference in oxygen levels. And, I can only imagine that Urithiru is even higher elevation than Rock's homeland (or at least the same). I do feel like there should be a more noticeable difference in environment between Urithiru and lower elevations we have seen so far. Because of this, I would not be surprised to find out that there is something about Urithiru that tempers environmental extremes.

I agree that we should be seeing bigger differences, especially with oxygen. But IIRC, wasn't someone surprised there were so many gardens/farm plots with the cold temperatures? So it sounds like the area is colder. I do still feel like the difference should be more drastic. Also does it not snow up there? Do the highstorms and everstorm not result in snow when at higher elevations? I am really curious about this, even if it is not relevant.

This is very similar to how I pictured it being formed. I don't know if it was soulcasting, but I was thinking they took existing rock and somehow manipulated/shaped it into the building they wanted. I never actually thought Urithiru was made out of old crem deposits. I also forgot about what Szeth said about being able to walk on the stone at Urithiru. Does anyone have a direct quote on that?

I wonder if she can draw pattern in sword form, or any of the other nahel bond spren.

Well it is on a mountain, so we know that it was lifted up at some point. The problem is on Earth that is a million year process. So the rock was probably uplifted first (this could have cause warping and twisting sediment layer we see) and then built into Urithiru.Then again we don't know much about the creation of Urithiru, but these chapters have me more and more curious. It is clear by everyone's reaction to the strange halls that this place was not created by any methods that they would be familiar with.

This is exactly what I speculated, that it was somehow carved and formed/grown from existing rock. It does not seem like soulcast rock, which has been brought up by others before. Also, even for metamorphic rock, some of the patterns (like the corkscrew striations) seem like more than a natural phenomenon. If I were to guess, the strange patterns in the rock were somehow created during the process of creating Urithiru. It would be interesting to compare the rock of the building with the rock of the mountain and see if the pattern was there too. Of course we probably won't get to see that, but it is fun to think about.

I'm a geologist, so it wouldn't be the first time I fussed more over rock or strata than a regular person would. I do have a couple points to defend myself though: 1. I wasn't really ascribing unwarranted importance to the rock layers. I was mostly geeking out about the possible rock type of the building. I understand that Brandon is a writer, not a geologist, so it is unlikely that there is much meaning behind the strata than what he specifically states in the book. BUT it sure is fun to speculate. It's my dream to be a planetary geologist and study the history of other worlds. Due to technological limits, I will never get to travel to a distant planet. I can, however, live my dream through reading. That is where I am coming from when analysing the rocks. Also, I don't know if your simplified explanation of how curved strata is formed is supposed to demonstrate why we don't need to fuss over the rocks, but it did the opposite for me. Your bringing up crem deposits just made my mind jump to thinking about what a deposit core sample would look like on the shattered plains. How far back could we go? Can we match up crem layers to specific storms, and use the thickness of the layer to estimate storm strength? Can we compare more current layers with layers as far back as the recreance? the last desolation? See, there I go fussing about things that will likely never come up in the book. I just can't help it. 2. Although I don't really think that the descriptions of rock striations hold any major secrets to the series, I do think they have some importance, or they wouldn't have been described as they were in the book. The Alethi people build their palace's out of rock, but none have been described as the rock in Urithiru. I agree that crem deposits would be very common in all of Roshar. So if that is all there is to it, why is the rock of Urithiru so notably different than other rock? Brandon could have just included the rock description to add to the strangeness of Urithiru, or to highlight Shallan's ability to pick up on patterns. He could also still use it when we find out more about how Urithiru was formed. It could come up as important later in a way we can't predict. Sanderson could do more with the rock striations, or he could just leave it there. Is this something that could be more important, or are we reading too much into it? Naturally, with all the theories going around, most of it will be reading too much into things. That doesn't we can't still speculate. Additionally, I don't think it is unreasonable to include the descriptions of the rock when speculating about the formation of Urithiru (which may turn out not to matter much after all).

This is true. I was more thinking of on a large scale. Almost all my experience with sand dunes shows a very characteristic cross-bedding feature going (which does not sound like what we see at all in Urithiru). I'm not saying other features don't show up, but swirls in sediment are definitely not the norm. You usually need very unique circumstances to produce it. I have a hard time imagining an entire outcropping large enough to house an enormous building will fit under those circumstances. My other issue with viewing this as a sandstone is that it isn't exactly that resistant to erosion (it's not the weakest, but it isn't the strongest either). There may not be any storms reaching the area, but the building still seems to have some type of supernatural resistance to the elements. I doubt that this rock type has any real Earthly analog, which adds to the fantasy element. This is especially true since Shallan described the lines as leading her to Dalinar. It's almost like this rock was formed into the shape of the building rather than being carved from it (which is also implied). Maybe it is a little of both? Carved and formed? Also, am I remembering correctly that some rock can not be cut by a shardblade? Is that the same rock that makes up Urithiru? To go along with that (trying not to go to much on a tangent), Is there somewhere in Urithiru that would imprison a shardbearer?

Well Mt Everest,the tallest mountain on Earth, has a layer of limestone (formed on the ocean floor) at its summit. I don't think it would be unusual to find sandstone on a mountain, from a geological perspective. That being said, there is definitely something going on with this specific strata. Without having both quotes out to directly compare them, I believe that the rock that Tien found was from the same source as the rock that forms this building. We know Urithiru wasn't formed by man's hand, so what formed it? Also, is the entire mountain made of this same strata? Is it protected from erosion? We just need a geologic map of the rock layers already, lol. Edit: I was just thinking about this more from a geological perspective, if the layers/strata are curving up or down, or in swirls, then it would have to be metamorphic rock. Sedimentary rock, like sandstone, would be in flat layers because sediment deposits don't occur at odd angles. It can't be igneous rock, because any strata would have recrystallized when under extreme heat/pressure (no layers). Metamorphic rock is sedimentary rock that has been warped/transformed under heat and pressure. So I would say that the rock that Urithiru is "carved" from is metamorphic rock based off the evidence I see. I don't know if that helps anything, but someone did ask for a geology nerd. Also, this all could not matter because the magic system could interfere with natural phenomena that we would see on Earth, making direct comparisons impossible.

@teknopatheticI don't really believe Tien will come back, but not because he won't be bringing back characters. In fact, a recent post on his facebook page has made it clear that we will see more characters coming back from the dead (I would read that, it is very interesting). He also said: "However, the story of the cosmere isn't really about who lives or dies. We established early on that there is an afterlife (or, at least, one of the most powerful beings in the Cosmere believes there is–and he tends to be a trustworthy sort.) And multiple books are about people being resurrected. What I'm really interested in is what this does to people. Getting given a second try at life, being reborn as something new. (Or, in some cases, as something worse.) The story of the cosmere is about what you do with the time you have, and the implications of the power of deity being in the hands of ordinary people." This makes me question if bringing back Tien would be of value in this respect. I am also not sure there is a convincing mechanism for Tien returning to his family. We saw his dead body (through his brother) and he went a long time of being dead. I am mostly just putting a crazy theory out there that could possibly explain some things. I am also picturing how dramatic and unexpected it would be for Kaladin to turn and see his little brother. As far as seeing a cognitive shadow... that would be interesting. I wonder if we could even see some form of him, especially as some of the characters get closer to the cognitive realm.

I like this idea, too. And if it happened to be true, my question is would Dalinar revert back to who he was before if he regained his memories?

Ok really crazy theory here, and I don't even really believe it, but is it possible that Tien isn't dead...? It could be what his Mom was going to tell him, and sheds new light on her saying "We can rebuild, be a family again. And there’s something else you need to know about. We—”... Now I lean towards this meaning they had another kid, but it would be so much more dramatic (and admittedly less likely) that somehow Tien has returned. I have absolutely no idea how this would realistically work, but it would also explain how we could be finding out more about Tien. I just don't see how we could be getting more information about him if he's dead... unless his parents know something about Tien that Kaladin didn't. It has been talked about before about how it seemed as if maybe his parents didn't love Tien as much as Kaladin based off of their reactions, but maybe their reactions could be explained by them knowing something about Tien that we don't know.... Ok, I know I am mostly rambling, but if that quote from Brandon is correct, it leads me to believe that I have not been looking deeply enough into Tien as a character...

Here is another map from WoR where you see can that the shattering is independant from the overlying city. The one exception is the Oathgate, which Shallan called "deviant" of the pattern, which is how she was able to find it. And it always good to be skeptical I even went and reread chapter 80 in WoR to validate my interpretation. Also, if you were curious there is a previous discussion about this subject here: And as far as the themes of symmetry and sound waves... in my mind they are interconnected. I would not be surprise at all if the shattering was related in some way to sound waves. I just also believe that there must be some reason the dawnsingers are thought to have created the symmetrical dawncities (or atleast the underlying rock formations of them), and I don't think it's illogical to make that same connection here. Also, I think it could be connected to Odium killing Honor. Does the timeline fit that those two things would have happened around the same time?

The only cities specifically mentioned to be symmetrical (as far as I can remember), are the dawn cities that are believed to be created by the dawnsingers. The symmetry of the glyphs is also attributed to being from the dawnsingers. Symmetry seems very important throughout the series, and is usually attributed to divine origins. I think the fact that the shattered plains are symmetrical is very relevant to the discussion of how the plains were shattered in the first place. This is especially important since all evidence suggests that the city was not exactly symmetrical before the shattering. We have a map of Stormseat (although it may not be completely accurate, it was enough to help them find the oathgate): We also know that the city doesnt take up the whole plains, but the symmetry pattern follows thoughout. This leads us to believe that the shattering itself was symmetrical.

I feel like he will eventually remember something, but as @Andy92 has said, we just don't know enough about the old magic. Has there ever been a case when someone loses their boon or curse? If we see evidence of this ever come up, then I think it very possible for him to get his memory back. Although, I can only really see Brandon doing this if it turns out that there is something about his wife that he needs to remember to progress the story or his character development.

I like this idea, and I don't think the shattered plains being moved rules out this theory. It sounds like he has made a lot of changes to the story since his first draft, so there is room for this. Also, he may not have needed to pinpoint a specific location of Honor's death, and used it as a way to integrate the plains. I also like the idea that dawnsingers are somehow involved in the shattering because of the symmetry of the plains.

The buildings are covered with crem, but they are the rock formations on top of the plains (at least from what I read in WoR). Shallan compares an old map of the city that used to be there to the plains in words of radiance, and I believe she noted how the plains were much bigger than the city was. @StormblessDave I have also wondered this. I believe one of the characters make the observation that it was like something massive fell on the plains, but that would not explain how the buildings on the plains would be in tact. But if some power burst from within the earth, we might get something like the shattered plains. But why is it symmetrical? The great magic unleashed here could have to do with the dawnsingers, or maybe this is where Honor died? Just throwing random guesses out there...

@Ansalem This WOB would definitely support that idea too: So we know that the cognitive realm isn't spherical, so definitely wouldn't spin like a physical planet would.

I just want to be clear because I have read conflicting information and it confuses me sometimes. This is the last desolation, correct? Atleast thats what they told everybody, right?

@Duke of Lizards I definitely agree, the betrayal of a friend definitely seems more likely to be sadeas betraying Dalinar and his army on the plains, especially since it happened in the same book. And Navani is much more likely to have been in a position to record those emotions. I just included that for the sae of thoroughness. I also agree that the betrothal felt like Adolin and Shallan, but that would place the notes as not being written yet in the main storyline (which is possible). If it is supposed to be an even that has already happened, the only one i could think of was Dalinar and his late wife. It was just so long ago that I find it unlikely that she had this fabrial that many years ago. There is always the possibility that not all of these events are important to the main story, and could be random off-scene recordings.

@Duke of LizardsYeah i caught that after rereading it to, and added that to my first post when i edited it.

Wow, definitely something to think about. This is my first time seeing this translation. I guess the big question is when would she have written these notes? Would it have been during or before the time of TWOK, or could it be from afterwards and Brandon just included it early to tease for future events? Also, would these people have been wearing these fabrials already, or did she ask them to wear them during each of these highly emotional times just so she could record their emotions? Both of these choices seem unlikely. Then again, she had to have gotten these readings somehow. Edit: After rereading the bottom, "learning to tell if the bracelet is reading your emotions, your subject's emotions, or the emotions of the people in the next room over" it is possible Navani was always the one wearing it. I am curious about how this would work... So, even though I have reservations about the timing and the means of each recording, Let look at each of these events and possible matches (Spoilers up to Oathbringer): As you can see, the accuracy of some of these guesses would greatly depend on the time of Navani's notes. Any other ideas?