Spicker

This is actually something I was wondering about in my most recent reread, and I am glad that you asked about it. I read this as confirming my suspicion that not all groups of people are referring to the same magic system when they use similar terminology for things. I think this is evident with the confusions about what a voidbringer is. We know who the first voidbringers were, but that term was later used to describe a different people. We also see Lift calling Wyndle a voidbringer, which may indicate that she was exposed to people that saw any spren as voidbringers. It can get kid of confusing when trying to define voidbringer. Some groups of people would have different definitions for that. This WoB makes it seem like the same may be true for the terms surgebinding and voidbinding. We know that they have definite differences and rules for each, but that doesn't mean that we can necessarily take all of the accounts of them at face value. We may be lead to believe that one group is talking about a magic based around Odium, then later find out it was really something else. I don't have a specific theory about which accounts may be misleading just yet, I just have a general feeling that what is viewed as voidbinding or surgebinding to one population is not necessarily the same to a different one, which is why he specifies that the question will really be answered in Ash's and Taln's flashbacks. I am assuming that they're past perspectives will be the closest to being accurate (although this may end up being a false assumption, too). Overall though, I don't think it changes anything with this theory. I generally agree with most of it and lean towards something like this. I am now left still wondering where the sibling is now. There are two ideas I like, and I think that either could possibly fit with this theory. I like the idea of the sibling being related to the sleepless: but I also like the idea that the sibling is related to stone: I like both theories, so I want both to work. This probably isn't possible, but I will go back and look at things again to try to make sense of it.

I am not sure if this adds anything to the discussion or not, but this passage stuck out at me in my recent reread: "Phantoms appeared, created from Stormlight by the woman with the red hair. These were the shadows in the darkness, the ones he heard whispering of his murders. How she brought them to life, he did not know" -Oathbringer, Ch. 120. Are these whispering shadows related at all to the source of the screams? What does this passage say about Shallan's illusions?

I did think about this, and I can see it happening. I still want to know why he would care so much about Taln keeping his blade? Is it because he doesn't want people knowing about the Heralds and the honorblades yet? Or is it because almost all the other Heralds don't have their's and this will be significant in the future to stopping Odium? Besides being the occasional mentor to some of the characters, we don't usually see Hoid directly help or intervene with the main conflict. He's usually doing his own thing, but he's clearly invested in destroying Odium. As a reader, we don't always get to see Hoid's involvement. So if Hoid did want Taln to keep his blade, how does that help Hoid and his cause more than other ways he could have intervened? Yes a few of the characters know that there are more shardblades than publicly known. That is kind of my point, so I guess I was unclear about that the first time. Only a selective group of people could have known about more shardblades, and even less would know where to find one. Hoid would be a viable candidate. I do think that Hoid leaving a blade fits with the information we have. There is just so much that we don't know that I could also see something else happening.

This would be consistent with the WoBs about it. I always found it odd that Brandon has said that Hoid doesn't have the blade, but then specifically adds that he may or may not have had it one point (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/87/#e5773). We know Hoid wasn't the one who did the actually switching (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/224/#e6885). This would hold true if you don't consider what happened to be actual switching, more like giving up a shardblade. Brandon would not answer whether or not Hoid knows who took the blade (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/60/#e8850). After reading these, I think it is fair to be suspicious of Hoid being involved somehow. Although I will say that I got the impression that maybe Hoid knew about some things, but was not really involved in how it went down. My big thing is that I don't have a good answer as to why Hoid would give him a shardblade. I could see him wanting to help the Herald if it aligned with his goals, but enough to give up a very powerful object? Maybe... For that matter, where would anybody get a spare shardblade from? Whether it was stolen, won fairly, or given freely by the legitimate owner, I feel like it would eventually become news that a shardbearer no longer has their blade. As I continue reading, I will definitely keep a look out for any word about a missing shardblade, because someone is bound to notice. Of course, there could be a cache of secret blades (or even just one blade) somewhere that wasn't public knowledge but someone knew about (this could fit with Hoid). Or someone is missing a blade and they are just not significant enough for our characters to hear about it.I will also watch for any information we have on the fake honorblade, and maybe we can know who its original owner really is. I think this would give us a clue about what really happened. I feel like there is something here, but there are just too many holes still for me to be completely convinced.

Here is a cool picture summary of blood chemistry, but we don't have orange blood on Earth so we don't see which chemicals would be orange. Not specifically relevant for any theories, but I thought it was interesting to see what life on Earth is compared to Roshar. Edit: After rereading the green blood section, it talks about higher concentrations appearing as a light red. Maybe it could hypothetically be involved in Parshendi blood.

Oooh I missed this one. Is there a source for this I can look at?

@Calderis Thanks, I forgot about that one. I agree it is not likely that he was ever a dragon then (unless there is a way to change your race that we don't know about yet.) I guess my other question is, do we know how dragons work? Can they shift into any shape/species, or do they just have a human form? After reading this thread, I couldn't help but think of the dragons from Fablehaven, for anyone who has read that series. They have a dragon form (their true form) and a human form, with different abilities as a human. Do the dragons from Yolen use magic/investiture to change forms, or is it inherent in their race? I also saw this (https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1052#98): This gives me the impression that the 16 shardholders could be a combination of the three races (including dragons). So maybe some of the shardholders were at one time dragons. Now it is left to speculate if any of the ones we know about were dragons at one point. I don't think we have even close to enough information to know this yet, I just like thinking of the possibilities.

Are there any theories about Hoid being a dragon? We know he is from the same place, along with others who became shards of Adonalsium (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/355/#e10497). Do any of these fit as being a dragon, either now or in the past? Or do you think he is talking about character that have not yet been confirmed as being from the Dragonsteel world?

Does Taln say he is still bonded to his honor blade? If so, it could be him dismissing it or hiding it somehow. Like others have said, couldn't Taln just call back his sword if he wants it? We know they don't disappear if dropped, but can they be dismissed and called like shardblades? Of course, there is the possibility that someone affected his bond with the honorblade. I am leaning towards the latter after reading this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3571 I just have so many questions about how honorblades even work, and there isn't much consistency in the WoB's about it. Sometimes he says humans can bond with honorblades, sometimes he says they cant, and at one point he says a person doesn't need to bond with it, they just need to hold it. That aside, we know that the heralds have a bond with them until they actively break it. Yet, Nale mentions the connection to his blade being broken at one point. So is there another way for a herald-honorblade bond to break? Is that even necessary for someone else to use the blade (can someone use a blade still bonded to a herald, assuming there is such a bond)? If Taln's bond was severed by something else, is it related to the honorblade being switched out?

I am just throwing this out there, do we actually see Nale use stormlight at any point? Or see his spren? (During one of his chases of lift maybe? I really need to reread the parts with him in it, because I honestly can't remember) Is there anything beside his word that confirms that he is a skybreaker and not just a herald? I searched the WoB's and this is the closest from him that I see: pfranklin51 [PENDING REVIEW] Nale mentions that he's the only Herald that ends up joining his Order of Radiants, eventually. Are there any Radiants that joined other Orders? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No, good question. Footnote: The questioner meant to ask if any Heralds had joined other Orders. Brandon may or may not have inferred that. source I don't really read this as a solid confirmation, but he also doesn't say anything to contradict it. I am not saying necessarily that Nale is not a skybreaker, just that he doesn't really live up to the powers that I am assuming he should have. Is there something restraining him, or am I assuming he should be more powerful than he really is?

I actually had these same thoughts after the first murder, but didn't ever posted it because even I thought it was dumb. But... I have to say this chapter makes me feel less crazy for thinking it the first time. Maybe I really should have posted my "A ghost did it" theory after all But yeah, I definitely get the supernatural, not normal killing vibe from the way it exactly replicates another killing. It could be a spren, or a sleepless, or maybe even some type of cognitive shadow. Do we know exactly why Urithiru was abandoned, or is it just implied to be related to the recreance? I'm a little fuzzy on this.

I can see that. Sometimes people jump to the worst conclusion and assume Shallan will have a complete mental breakdown. I am not saying it won't happen, but Shallan has shown in the past that she can confront the lies she creates, so I have no reason to think she can't do it again. This is part of the reason why I think there is a lot of room for her individual progression in her relationship with Adolin. She will probably have to be forced to face her deceptions, and quite possibly Adolin's. The point is, all the KR's are broken, but they are all also very resilient. I would hate to see any of them become broken beyond repair.

I must say that I am not diagnosing Shallan with anything, or am I dismissing her as crazy. I don't think it is fair to lump anyone who notes Shallan's identity struggles in the same class of thinking "Oh she is a woman, she is just acting crazy." I even said that as long as she can reconcile all the personalities she creates, then it could work as a coping mechanism. As someone who is a woman, who has PTSD, and has tried coping mechanisms to deal with panic attacks, I definitely identify with what Shallan goes through in some scenes. I do not consider myself crazy at all, and function normally a vast majority of the time (with the exception of my rare trigger situations). Once again, I am not necessarily saying she has PTSD, but she was written in such a way that I identified my PTSD with it. Me making that connection has nothing to do with me associating craziness with women. It has to do with me seeing Shallan in a situation that I can almost feel what she's feeling. And yes, when I have a panic attack, I would describe it as mental deterioration. Ignoring the clear distress that Shallan is in in some situations for the sake of avoiding the crazy woman stereotype is a disservice to her character.

No worries. I think we are all guilty of not being able to communicate what we are thinking effectively, which can play a big part in perceived disagreements. I actually agreed with most of what you said, maybe just not how you painted the picture from the beginning.

I actually never hinted at romantic involvement with Kaladin. Kaladin can help her with or without any romantic element. I only mentioned the romantic element between shallan and Adolin because it relevant to the discussion. You may not be trying to blame him, but the language you use here tells a different story. And your title literally calls out Adolin for hindering Shallan's progression. That kind of sounds like blame. I understand that's not what you intend, but hopefully you can atleast understand why people feel that your are putting blame on Adolin. But like I said, I agree with what you said about their relationship causing them to build walls. So there is some blame on her relationship with Adolin, but I don't think it is as big a stumbling block to her progression as you do. We know she will have to confront her deception, and we will then get to see if she can progress from it or not.

The overall premise of the theory is plausible. Although I do feel like you are putting too much blame on Adolin for Shallan's mental deterioration. It is true that Shallan's feeling for Adolin may have put more pressure on her to create Brightness Radiant, but the groundwork for this personality creation has been laid out before Adolin was on the scene. Like you have pointed out, Shallan copes with distressing situations and memories by building walls and avoidance. She has a unique, and often unhealthy, relationship with lies. This is likely how she attracted crypticspren to begin with. And, as someone has said, she has used this coping mechanism before with success. I do however feel that Brightness Radiant will have some type of negative outcome for her, UNLESS she can find a way to reconcile her personalities. I think that her desperation to not lose Adolin definitely prevents this from happening. I do however feel that this has less to do with Adolin himself, but rather the situation she istrying to preserve. I feel her and Adolin are fighting a losing battle by trying so hard to hold onto their relationship as it is. I honestly think that no matter who Shallan "ends up with," her relationship with Adolin will have to change. They both need to be more open than they are with each other. I actually like the chemistry between the the two, but right now they are both hiding things in order to make the betrothal work. And both are so busy hiding their own secrets that they can't see when the other is lying or hiding something. You argue that this hinders progression, but instead I see it as a necessary tension for both characters. I can see Shallan progressing more after a potential disaster or blow up from her deception with Adolin than I can from any talk or discussion she has with Kaladin. I do agree, though, that she may be more open to Kaladin simply because she isn't as desperate to avoid losing him. The question is, would this openness with Kaladin result in the progression that you theorize? I am not entirely convinced, though it could lead her in the right direction.

I think the word is actually "evangelation", basically meaning the act of bringing/spreading good news, which is a pretty good fit for a Lightweaver. Evangel is a word by itself, meaning good news, and "-ation" is basically a suffix actioning the word it is attached too. There is definitely a g in the middle of that word. I see where you are coming from with evangelation, and that word fits with what I can read. My reservations are that it sounds like a made up word, and feels weird that Brandon would use it. Wouldn't a more correct/better term be evangelization? So is that to long to fit for that word? If evangelation is the real word (which it looks possible) then I start questioning Brandon's choice of vocabulary (which I never do). It's just a weird word, and as much as it could fit, I hope that it's not it.

I don't want to get into the aluminum-blocking-shardblade debate, especially since I am not committed to one or the other. And, from this thread it sounds like not even Brandon and Peter are completely sure about it. (Are there any new WoB's that shed more light on this?) I was simply suggesting there could be something in the stone that interferes with the Shardblades, and aluminum was one possible element. However, after more thought, I find this less and less likely. There were more than enough opportunities for someone to have noticed that the Blades don't cut the stone. I will give up this idea for now, until I read otherwise.

Ok duh, I don't know why this didn't connect for me. So I guess this isn't any confirmation one way or the other of Blade cutting the stone. I mostly think it would cut it, we have no reason to think otherwise. But with how weird the stone is, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out they can't cut through the rock. Maybe it has some aluminum in it? On a related note, I really think that there is some type of prison in urithiru that can contain shardbearers, which might become relevant. Is there any mention of KR betraying their spren before the recreance? Like, did a singular KR ever create a shard blade before the mass betrayal? Or do we have information that the recreance was the first time it happened? Would the KR ever have needed to punish/isolate someone with a Blade?

We have layers, corkscrews, and now circles, all in the same rock. This does not sound like a natural rock formation, and I'm leaning pretty heavily that these patterns in the rock were created when Urithiru was formed. Also it says a knife couldn't scratch it and it's smooth, almost reminds of polished granite. Shallan briefly mentions her sword hitting the ceiling. I'm assuming we can't take this to confirm that the blade can cut through the rock? It doesn't say it explicitly, but you would think shallan would have noted how odd it would be if her sword didn't cut through the rock and just scraped against it.

This is how I feel. I don't know what the twist is yet, but something else is going on here. And after rereading the passage, I am more convinced that Dalinar was not thinking of Navani. She just wasn't mentioned, and him thinking about her here feels out of place. I had a quick thought that just came to me... what if the wife was pregnant and he let her go. I just don't know if that would cause him shame. I am just trying to think of something we wouldn't expect. Maybe I should just let myself be surprised.

The Thrill had masked his shame as well as his physical pain - which suggests the shame stems from something he'd done while riding The Thrill. Besides, while Dalinar expresses internal shame in other passages based on his attraction to his brother's wife, that's always been in her presence, and she's not at this battle, nor even tangentially a topic of conversation between the two. However, Gavilar does know, or believe, that Dalinar killed both "their highlord and his heir" - the heir being the boy. So the shame isn't about keeping Gavilar from thinking he did so. On the other other hand, closing his eyes and remembering "a brave boy crying" as soon as he's alone, that sounds pretty much exactly what I would call "shame". It's certainly what's foremost on his mind at that particular moment, and one would assume, what was shaming him to the point of distraction earlier. So back to this thought again: is it possible that Dalinar didn't kill the boy, but did something else that would be shameful, not just in his own mind, but in Gavilar's estimation of him? Or was it just the way in which he did it? I really like this post by @robardin in the chapter 10-12 release thread. It sums up my feelings pretty well. He either didn't kill the heir, or he did so in a particularly heinous way that he doesn't want Gavilar to know about.

That was the exact passage that I was thinking about. Everything that you highlighted leads me to believe that we are missing something here. He is ashamed of something that Gavilar doesn't know about, and Navani is not mentioned in the whole scene, so I don't think it has to do with her. When alone, his mind goes back to the boy, which leads me to believe he's involved. I agree with the two possibilities you posited. He's either ashamed of something he did while NOT killing the boy, or he is ashamed of how he did it. One other possibility could be that he doesn't want Gavilar to know how ashamed he is of the things they are doing, but that fits less with the conversation they have in this scene.

I will think on this more. The one thing that comes to mind is that maybe whatever Dalinar had to do to save and hide the kid is what he is shamed about, and not actually letting the kid live? If the child is alive, his identity is now hidden. How could he have pulled off such a stunt last minute though? If he didn't kill the kid, he would have had to fake the death somehow. I also like to think that if he really did kill the kid that he would have been more devastated by his actions when the Thrill faded. This could just be wishful thinking on my part though... EDIT: I want to make it clear, I fully believe that the person Dalinar was at the time could have killed the kid, I am just not convinced yet that it happened based off how it was written. I am fully prepared to accept that he did kill the boy if nothing else comes from this. And if he did kill the boy, I am glad that was not included.

I was thinking the same thing when I read it I had heard from others who had read this before that Dalinar had killed a kid for his shardblade, but after reading it myself I am not convinced that is what he did (for the same reasons you pointed out). If the kid is still alive somehow, we definitely will be seeing him again.