IcaroRibeiro

I find any of those theories of current Radiants becoming Heralds or something akin to them to be terrible terrible ideas, it can totally happen but it would be such an bitter end for arc 1

The whole design of how Heralds were used to trap the Fused was flawed from the very beginning. Sacrifice few individuals to a never-ending circle of pain until they break and another war consume Roshar again almost destroying the human civilizations in the process. No, just... not again please. I hope they find another solution, even if it's just temporay until arc 2, but I cannot bear to read all of my beloved characters suffering a decade of torture to comeback and fight in a war again X_X

Can't relate 

The problem  lies in the fact a Radiant journey is about struggles and growth. If you have those characters going for another 5 books of struggles this will be such a drag... I just can't imagine it working in the back 5

They can still be POV characters, but other characters needs to surpass their own struggles and grown to keep in the center stage. I'm truly excited to read about MORE important characters coming for part 2, characters we might not even seen yet 

I'm rereading again and damn, the "kernel" of this book (Navani's studies) is the only interesting thing happening in Part 3. The part 1 is fantastic and my favorite part 1 in the series. The part 2 is awesome too, Shalan and Adolin journey at first, and then Singer invasion to Urithiru. Up to this point this is the strongest book in the series

And then part 3 starts. This part is such a bore, I could erase it almost completely. Move Dalinar and Jasnah POVs to part 4 and then cut almost all Kaladin and Venli POVs

The flashbacks contents are ok (although quite uneventful, it was nice to see some characters of Gavilar entourage, hope to see more from Axindewth), but painfully poorly placed. One of the best things about SA flashbacks is how much they flash out the main characters in a sense you start to understand how and why they act like that and in this sense the flashbacks help you to get INTO the povs. This time the flashbacks feels totally out of place and all felt like circuit breaking. Venli is such a indolent observer and that prevents me for liking her, worth nothing her flashbacks are making me feel no additional sympathy to her 

From my memory I really liked part 4 and 5, I expect to keep liking it. It's sad part 3 legs so behind everything else 

Re-reading ROW now

Venli is not a core 7, more inclined to 3 or 4.  I'm more inclined to type 4, because type 3 are usually better at faking. A unhealthy type 3 is more likely to show hyper narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies, like Gavilar:

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Fearing failure and humiliation, they can be exploitative and opportunistic, covetous of the success of others, and willing to do "whatever it takes" to preserve the illusion of their superiority.

Venli during her flashbacks though looks a lot like this:

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Gradually think that they are different from others, and feel that they are exempt from living as everyone else does. They become melancholy dreamers, disdainful, decadent, and sensual, living in a fantasy world. Self-pity and envy of others leads to self-indulgence, and to becoming increasingly impractical, unproductive, effete, and precious.

And after that she went to even more unhealthy levels:

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When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.

On 22/03/2022 at 0:31 PM, AerionBFII said:

I honestly think her mind is almost completely been corrupted by her Shard. We saw how flawed Ruin, Preservation and Odium became in regards to simply going along with the flow of their Shard. I think her intent was to create a Shard she could influence, shape and train for the War of The God's that is apparently coming. She is sentient enough to see the weakness of Rayse in that the discontent between him and his Shard gave her an opening but I think she grossly underestimated Taravangian, maybe the boon and curse she gave him will help balance out the Odium-ness(?) but I don't think she should take her eyes off her new student.

Great theory, I seem some truth in this. Rayse words is Dalinar would rather surrender to Odium if he knew what Koravellium is planning for Roshar. While I do think it might be an overstatement I'm tempted to believe humans from current Roshar won't be specially happy with whatever future Koravellium is designing for them 

POV characters:

Kaladin is hard to type, because of his mental state. So far I see him as a 2w1, he lives to serve, protect and help to a point of neglecting himself

Shallan is a type 7w6, with Veil being a 8w9 and Radiant a 1w9. It's curious because Shallan is such a stereotypical type 7 meme that her defense mechanism is to just shut every bad feelings she might have to a pont of developing other personalities LOL

Adolin can be a type 2w3, but not sure

Dalinar used to be an 8w7, but after losing his memories the void that left turned him into a 1w9

Renarin can be either 4w5 or 5w4, I need to see what is inside his mind first, we had only a few chapters from this POV

Navani seems to be a 3w2. She even seems to suffer the hard time finding her own identity and assumes social personas instead when she needs to get the rust done. She seems to be quite good ignoring her emergent emotions and thinking rationally like type 3 usually does

Jasnah is a text book 5w6, I don't even think there is much to discuss here

Lift is a 7w6 

Venli is an 7w8

Eshonai (RIP) was a 9w1, I loved her so much

Szeth is a type 6 in the maximum unhealthy level "Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders"

I believe Taravangian was a type 2w1, but his persona is some "evil" form is kind of heartless 5w6

Teft is... never paid enough attention on him. Type 4 I guess?

Moash is a type 8, I think wing 9

Lopen is another type 7w6

Rysn might be a type 3, not sure which wing though

Lirin is one of the most annoying 1w2 characters I've read. Made me think if I'm like that, because I'm a 1w2 too 

Rain is a type 4w5

I also speculate Hoid is a 5w4 disguised as 7w8    

About Shallan 4th truth

It was good and actually makes her history much more logical and believable, but the emotional impact behind it could have done better. I mean, this could be the whole excuse used by Spren (mostly Honorspren and Inkspren) all along blocking them from getting more support from Shadesmar i.e. Shallan feeling responsible for the humans losing the war more and more

I don't quite get why nobody suggested this for Sanderson, they even used Testament in the trial to prove their point, if this was an open point all along then we could have a reason for Shallan fear of being abandoned and damned for what she have done 

This books suffers from being designed and written specifically as a set up to the fifth book. All 3 books so far spend an insane amount of chapters and mini plot only for the sake of character development and making lighthearted interactions to break tension. The first 200 pages dedicated to insert some sort of 1 year climax further deepened this, as in other books those chapters would be instead dedicated to right mini stories to reveal more details of the cast 

This one just need to have so much plot going that we have almost no space for the same feeling, and the most sacrificed character was for sure Venli

It's still hard to emphatize with her, her interactions with her crew were small and punctual, this was fairly frustrating and she was supposed to share protagonism with Navani. I think Sanderson wasn't able to create a more interesting plotline for her and her crew without compromising the books structure after all this is still a massive 1200 pages book and he couldn't spare a single more chapter 

Personally, I would sacrifice most of Kaladin chapters if this meant to get more Venli. Indeed I could remove Kaladin from part 3 (and cut many POVs of part 4) altogether and the book would still be mostly the same. But seems like Sanderson liked too much the idea of creating an epic moment for Kaladin's 4th ideal to happen, so yeah, poor Venli 

First, I want you to forgive any typos, english is not my first language. With that in mind, let's go to the thread

On his description of Orders Sanderson used very specific words to talk about Elsecallers ideals:

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Elsecaller oaths are, like those of the Lightweavers or Skybreakers, themed toward the individual. In this case, the theme is progress—becoming better with each oath, seeking to explore their true potential and reach it. Because of this, the Order is open to many different types, so long as they want to improve themselves.

Lightweavers have no specific ideals, instead they speak truths, each one personal to each Radiant. Skybreakers have words with some meaning... well until the second ideal. Third ideal is about making an oath to follow someone, as each person is individual this can lead do Skybreakers following completely different concepts of laws. The fourth ideal is about fulfilling a quest, and is deeply personal, the oath is only accepted after the quest is finished. The fifth ideal is about becoming a law, it has a clear concept, but the meaning each Radiant can give it is so profoundly different that this makes this Idea just as personal as Lighweavers truths

So if Elsecallers ideals are themed towards individual, they mostly are about people "Reaching their Potential", step by step, rather than swearing specific words of honor. How much a Radiant can progress depends on how much they are actually able to improve themselves and also how much their Spren perceive their progression. Inkspren seems to have titanic standards to humans, as Ivory said to Jasnah he regards her as superior to other humans. Perhaps an evidence of this is a specific scene in the end of Oathbringer where I think Jasnah progressed to her fourth Ideal, the moment she decided to spare Renarin:

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Jasnah, this is right. Somehow it is. It is not what makes sense, yet it is still right. How. How is this thing?

Even though concerned with logic, Inkspren seems morals as things of uttermost importance, as they are so far the only kind of spren that completely avoided forming any kind of bonds, except Ivory himself. The have a less idealized and romanticised version of Honor compared to Honorspren, for Inskpren. Seems like Inkspren need humans who can go as far as necessary to archive what they perceive as the Great Good, without being devoided of the emotions that makes them humans. More than anything this scene seems a moment of understanding for both Jasnah and Ivory, for Jasnah it was a moment for her to see that a Great Good can come with an expense of her Humanity and no matter how Rational, Powerful, Learned, Fair and Discerning she is she still needs to respect her own sense of morality as she stated in Rythmn of War

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"I seek the line of action that does the most possible good for the most people. This is in keeping with my moral philosophy"

And with this, Jasnah reached her 4th ideal, reach her potential os being at the same time Mighty and Forbearing 

So in the context the "potential" of the order can be, although not restricted to, accomplishments of any sort necessary to trigger an Inkspren to realize the Radiant reached their own potential. With such each radiant path can change drastically. This also aligns with what is stated about the members of the order:

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They seek self-improvement and personal betterment in their lives, but aren’t limited to one specific theme or set of Ideals. This makes them one of the most open and welcoming of orders, though they do tend to attract those who are less flamboyant. They have their share of scholars, and often a large number of theologians, but also attract those who are interested in leadership. They are good at encouraging others, but some are known to set their sights upon the things they want and then seize them.

So, this is it. We can now speculate what specific actions triggered Jasnah progression towards each ideal. I suspect she was already at her third ideal when she met Shallan, I guess this is debatable because she seemed unable to elsecalling before the incident with her ship in Words of Radiance, but her chapter being noncanonical put this argument in check. If she was already able to elsecalling (which I believe she was) then she was probably on her third ideal

15% already dude is just not human, must be a Kandra or something 

Only seeing it now

I'm storming hyped

On 26/11/2020 at 1:42 AM, What's a Seawolf? said:

 

The Sibling - Although interesting and sympathetic at times, not as interesting as the Stormfather or as mysterious as the Nightwatcher.

It's far more interesting than Stormafather though, he at least has some personality. Stormafather basically rages and and refuses to be useful at inopportune moments. It's asinine he's in touch with Dalinar for 3 books now and his dialogues with Dalinar on crucial moments are essentially him complaining "I'm a Storm, I can't obey you, I'll do whatever I want, go find another one to bother"

I understand Godspren bond is not like another Truespren bond, but I'm sure Sanderson can find another way to use Stormafther that don't fall into the same issue over and over 

I thought Adolin would have a bigger word count, he always get many chapters in all books

16 hours ago, smokeesid said:

does anyone have in their mind that Brandon may die before completing his cosmere series? He makes novels in other universes as well and cosmere could have 40-50 books in its arsenal. That many books will at least take 50-60 years to write. When he writes other novels as well then he would need more time than that which he will probably not have

 

Anyway, why should we care. A universe has billions of planets with millions of intelligent species. We can assume that an advanced alien species can destroy all the shards and human beings if they act all haughty and high and mighty

He plans to release more 7 Mistborn books (final Mistborn trilogy will be the last Cosmere work)

6 Stormlight Books

2 Elantris Books, 1 Warbreaker sequel 

And a Yolen series

So it's around 20 books.

If he release one every 2 years that might take 40 years. As his currently pace (and is likely going to stay the same for more 10 years) is closer to 2 books every 3 years I think he can release half of those 20 promised books until 2035

The problem is those books only account for 4 worlds and 1 pre shattering worlds. We still having 6 shards that we didn't see in any series, and I think he will end writing more series/trilogies/stand alone books and this can really hurt his promises. I can see him delivering 20 more Cosmere books, but 30... seems quite a high number

On 22/11/2020 at 0:08 AM, Bearer of all agonies said:

 

(Who did I miss?). 
 

His cousin is an Elsecaller, the only know elsecaller in the war 

Useless character. You could remove him from the narrative entirely and the story would be the same 

I'm happy he died, so we won't have to endure him and his stupid hunting journey again next book 

I found refreshing to finally learn about Jasnah sexuality, not in the sense to know if she is straight, lesbian or whatever, but to know how she has the same physical urges that affect more mortals like us and how she deal with it

Looks like someone who just doesn't really care much about physical stimulation, and choose Hoid based only on his intellectual side. It was interesting however to learn that even if she doesn't care much, she isn't unaware about his physical appearance and seems to appreciate his handsomeness despite of her lack of interest 

I wanted to see what Hoid think about their interactions, he must be happy to finally found a partner to share some of his plans and secrets, someone he can be himself, a partner for intimacy. Something I always found lacking about his writing is how much he wears his Wit mask, hence I found his way to talk to her really endearing, it's unfortunate we can't see more of them together

She's amazing

MVP of this book along with Navani and the Subling 

I found their POVs ok, after reading part 1 I was expecting their chapters would be mostly about mental illness when in reality they were mostly about fighting and hiding.

It doesn't add any substance to the narrative, as Navani was clearly the central character on Urithiru, with Venli showing other side of the same plot, but Kaladin at least bring in some action scenes that saved Urithiru parts 3 and 4 from lethargy 

I still think he should had far less POV though. The Pursuer was  basically a setup for him to have some battles and Moash role in Urithiru was everything but satisfying, but I'm happy the finally swore this 4th ideal and could progress further 

Venli in Kholinar in the night of Gavilar death was incredible. This night still the best event Sanderson elaborated in Stormlight with each book unraveling more and more details and secrets, can't wait for book 5!

Contrary to what most people I found those flashbacks more interesting than Kaladin's or Shallan's. It showed more about Listeners culture and organization, and also explained Venli's relationship with Ulim. It was way less meaningful however, as Venli's is not as important ad Kaladin or Shallan were for books 1 and 2

Kaladin's flashback in just worth character study, many people read books for this, but I'm not exactly interested in them. I always skip their flashback when re-reading because IMO it's very clear what his flashback means and don't add much in the general Stormlight plot 

Shallan's flashback was a bit more intriguing, as she contacted Hoid and her family was closed tied with many organizations, the Ghostbloods, the Skybreakers and her mother herself we still not knowing how she knew about Radiants. But I found her chapters mostly blurry and confusing, after 6 years we are still getting details of her past. Anyway, her flashback is at least worth revisiting after reading recent events 

23 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

.
 

The humor and general kind of feeling of these books will always have young adult overtones. I’m sorry it just will; but I find it charming to tell you the truth. And hey, if I want to read a book with foul language and awkward graphic sex scenes I can always pull out a Joe Abercrombie book from my shelf.

I think this kind of criticism is very valid, what is not honest however is to pretend this light-hearted young novel feel wasn't present in the previous entries of Stormlight series as well

In the past Odium himself provided the Fused new hosts, and Odium's summoning was the only way for them to comeback 

Now Fused are a bit more unboded, and can return during a Everstorm adopting a sacrificed Singer as new body 

Her death in Oathbringer was one the most bitter scenes in the series for me, I had so much expectations on her, I never dealt well with her destiny

I cried reading her last flashback chapter. Eshonai is the character who the best represents the humanization of singers, knowing she could fullfill her dream, even if just for a few minutes, was the most satisfying arc conclusion in Stormlight Archive so far. She really deserved it, so much hardness she endured. You did well Eshonai, I hope you find peace 

53 minutes ago, smokeesid said:

Okay I have read the epilogue first and understood that odium destroyed Hoid's memories. I might get trolled because of this but this is a complete plot device bullshitry. If you are going to meet a grand and transcendental power then you will become completely alert and recognize all your vulnerability and shield it with all the knowledge you have. Hoid would have done that. He pondered whether Ryse has become more thoughtful then that means he had the possibility in his mind that the person after taking the shard could grow. There is no reason for this foolishness except for the plot device that the writer has put to advance the story towards a direction where it will be the most likable

 

I bet I would have more fun reading mistborn era 2(that I have already read) than reading this.

 

Unless, those memories are of little use to Hoid

Read the book and you will understand 

Up this thread because it deserves more appreciation. Nice work