aemetha

This could also refer to Taldain, dayside and nightside.

I think, in my personal experience, it's a bit of both. Strength lets you draw the bow, but holding it steady requires a certain skill that is intrinsically a part of that strength. Kind of like the difference between pulling the string and drawing the bow. I have no problem pulling the string on a powerful bow, which I've played around with a few times, but I haven't trained my strength in that manner, so what ends up happening is the bow wobbles around in my hand and I can't practically use it, which I think is a separate skill itself from the actual aiming of a bow. Does that sound right?

This deserves an upvote. Skill is a factor in this. The average modern human can't draw and accurately fire an English longbow, yet English peasants during the middle ages, who were in an almost perpetual state of malnutrition and were physically smaller than modern humans did so with regularity. The difference is they trained to do it from a young age, it was a feudal requirement of them. The bow is Rock's weapon of choice, and shardbearers are much more focused with the sword. It's likely Rock has a much higher level of skill with the bow and that this, in addition to his prodigious strength, access to stormlight, and the effects of adrenaline upon seeing his mentor about to die allowed him to perform a feat that few others in other circumstances could replicate.

This is the Dawnsinger interpretation of what happened. It isn't necessarily what happened, and the reality is much more up in the air. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/262-oathbringer-glasgow-signing/#e8808 There is some evidence that the influence of the shards extends to the greater Rosharan system, including Ashyn, which was the Tranquiline halls. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/33-arcanum-unbounded-san-francisco-signing/#e2745 See the first WoB I quoted here. Odium wasn't necessarily the god of the humans, he just arrived at the same time. The only in world accounting of the events is the dawnsinger account, which is likely highly biased, being solely from the perspective of the dawnsingers. Yes, this is generally believed to be the case. It is believed she will be the willshaper subject of the next book, which is slated to be Eshonai's book. So what we'll see is present time POV scenes of Venli, and flashback scenes of Eshonai.

So, basically you think it cheapens the existing relationship, and that Syl is in some respects Kaladin's child? I can see how you'd come to that conclusion. I don't necessarily agree with it myself though. I'm more of the opinion that they already have a relationship along the lines being discussed here, just not a physical relationship. I don't tend to like categorising things though, I see things on a continuum or a plane of possible responses with no two people or relationships falling into the same point in that. I think their reliance and genuine care for each other is enough that they don't need romantic attachments to others to meet their needs for primary emotional support and affection.

Okay, so Spren aren't created by the shards, they are made of the investiture of shards. Spren are created from the collective cognitive presence of what sapient creatures think. Those thoughts need to be generally consistent with the intent of the investiture they are made up of, but also remember that the actions we see of the shards are the result of the focusing by a vessel of the shards intent. The actual intent of a shard is likely a broader concept. Spren aren't specifically of Honor, many are of Cultivation. Cultivations intent is quite strongly linked to emotion, while Honor's intent is quite strongly linked to interpersonal interactions. Painspren for example are consistent with Cultivations intent, because pain helps grow and develop a person in specific ways. Heres a relevant WoB on the subject. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69-shadows-of-self-release-party/#e6134

@Rainier I''m going to preface this by saying I am all for a Kaladin Syl ship, but I'm not at all hung up on a sexual relationship being any part of that. Can I ask, what exactly you find gross about it, be it human/spren or human/ryshadium? From a purely dispassionate moral standpoint, the prohibition of bestiality is based on the fact an animal cannot consent or indicate distress in the same way a human being can. In such cases a human would be inflicting harm upon the animal for personal gratification. From an evolutionary standpoint, it is considered maladaptive because it doesn't continue the genetic line, and so may be considered unnatural. Those arguments tend to be a bit thin in these circumstances though. The moral argument is weak because consent can be given and distress can be indicate. No party is inflicting harm upon the other. From the evolutionary standpoint, it's not inconsistent with modern sexual relationships in which contraception is actively employed to prevent the unwanted continuation of the genetic line. Even the suggestion of superficial equivalency doesn't apply to Syl as it would for ryshadium. So I genuinely am interested, what is, in your opinion, the rational basis for the revulsion response?

Whoever said that? I certainly didn't, and I haven't seen anyone else argue this at any point. Honestly, this is a really hyperbolic statement, which is really a bit of a theme in some of these posts. I made one statement that was misunderstood, which I've clarified three times now, and somehow it just continues to be inflated into something much larger than it is. Good people do bad things sometimes. That's the essence of what anyone said about it on my side of the argument. His act was sociopathic has in your commentary become he's a sociopath has become he's a vile human being. You see what's going on there? I feel at this point most of us are arguing something that was said, and you are arguing something that you've inferred. I don't expect you to agree with me, I do expect you to at least accept my explanation of what I think rather than insinuating that you know my mind better than I do.

I thought it might be fun to write our own scenes for the 1 year time gap between Oathbringer and book 4. Here's mine. It will of course be a Lift scene, because, it's mine! Please add your own. "Okay, it's been three weeks since Thaylenah, you've all had a chance to begin your assignments, and I need to know what progress you've made. Captain Kal..." Dalinar began. "Umm..." interrupted Lift. "Yes Lift?" asked Dalinar "Maybe we should break, you know, for lunch and stuff." suggested Lift. "Lift, we literally just ate breakfast. Right now. Shallan is still chewing hers, and the plates have not been cleared off the table." replied Dalinar. "Yeah" said Lift. "Yeah what?" asked Dalinar. "Yeah, we just ate breakfast" replied Lift. "Okay, I'm glad we sorted that out. Captain Kaladin, could you..." Dalinar began again. "What about lunch?" Lift asked hopefully. Dalinar sighed audibly "Renarin, could you please ask the kitchen staff to send Lift some lunch. Captain Kaladin, how is the training progressing with the new Wind runner recruits?" "Unfortunately sir, there have been some injuries. Nothing life threatening, but a number of recruits will be out of action for several weeks." replied Kaladin. "What happened?" enquired Dalinar. "The Lopen happened." Kaladin responded unenthusiastically. "He thought it would be a good idea to train adhesion by sticking new recruits to the ceiling and seeing who stays up the longest. Apparently it didn't occur to him that the tower has stone storming floors." "Fine." said Dalinar, visibly annoyed now. "We'll move on. Shallan, how is the training of your lightweaver squires progressing." "Umm, not much progress yet. We... I mean... I... umm..." Shallan blushed furiously and glanced at Adolin furtively before mumbling something inaudible. Dalinar rolled his eyes, "Right, well, just don't forget the whole apocalypse thing, okay? Szeth, any progress on the negotiations with Nale? Will he agree to join our side?" "Of course Dalinar-son-god. You have said it must be." replied Szeth. "Damnation, I told you a hundred times. I am not the son of god! Honor isn't even god!" shouted Dalinar. "Of course Dalinar-son-god, if you say it, it cannot be otherwise." replied Szeth characteristically dispassionately. Dalinar took a deep breath and ploughed ahead "So Nale has agreed to come to our side?" "Not yet Dalinar-son-god." replied Szeth. "But you literally JUST said he was coming to our side!" exploded Dalinar. "Yes, you have told me this is true." replied Szeth. "Did you let it back out?" asked Lift. "Let what back out?" asked Dalinar, perplexed. "The red angry thing. You're kind of red and angry. You're old though. Old people are often red and angry. I can't tell." Lift replied, stabbing another pancake with her shardfork. Dalinar slumped back in his chair. "I give up, we're not getting anywhere here. I supposed I can take some solace in the fact that your collective efforts make my attempts at diplomacy look storming inspired by god." "This is only right Dalinar-son-god." replied Szeth, earning a further glare. "Tomorrow, same time. I want to hear actual progress then!" said Dalinar dismissively. "WAIT!" shouted Lift. "Yes Lift?" asked Dalinar. "What about dinner?" she enquired.

Mostly because shardic conflicts in the cosmere aren't good versus evil battles. They are all pretty malign on balance as a consequence of the excessive emphasis on a single aspect of human nature they represent. Honor is inflexible and stubborn, and toward the end cared more about the words than the intention of the oaths. Odium is the shard of either passion or hatred, but either way you look at it he delights in turning allies into adversaries and inflaming their acrimony. So what you get is one entity inflaming conflict in general, and another entity that refuses to not engage as a matter or principle. Odium stokes tensions, Honor attempts to bind people to him, and is prepared to embrace those willing to bind themselves to oaths, regardless of what is actually good and fair, as long as they follow a code. In many ways Honor is the perfect shard for Odium to manipulate.

Spren aren't quite like that. Spren are comprised of investiture, and all investiture belongs to a shard of adonalsium, so in that respect they are shards of shards (which is actually called a splinter). It isn't the intent of a shard that causes a spren to manifest with an identity though, it is the cognitive presence of an idea, one which is compatible with the intent of the investiture composing it. Radiant spren are actually composed of both Honor and Cultivations investiture in varying amounts depending on the type of spren it is. So, while a shard provides the substance of a spren, it is the collective thoughts of sapient creatures that binds the investiture in a form and allows it to have an identity, rather than just free investiture of a particular intent. Spren actually predate the shattering, but all pre-shattering investiture was assigned to a shard, so they now all belong to a shard. They are unique to Roshar because that's how Adonalsium ran things before the shattering. There are similar types of phenomenon on other worlds though, such as the Seon's of Sel.

If it helps, I was thinking "Oh no, not ANOTHER Shallan and/or Maya thread." They weren't really all that interesting in the book, Maya didn't have two words to say the entire time they were in Shadesmar!

I don't believe the oaths are entirely of the Spren. Ishar had a hand in the oaths, so while the ideas are consistent with the general ideas of the spren, they also have the hand of men in them. Also, it's important to note that the words matter less than the intent.

I think Shallan's story arc was more complicated, and required more word count to convey. To be fair as well, even with the higher word count the amount of disagreement over her story arc on this board is an indicator that it still wasn't adequate to fully explain what is going on with her. I think Dalinar's story arc was simpler, but had more weight. What Dalinar did in the book rocked the story more than what Shallan did in the book, so in that respect it was still his book.

Windspren are a lesser spren who also demonstrate the ability to stick things together.

I mostly agree with this. I suspect it is probably more protection and leading themed though. Something like "I will protect the rights of people to make their own choices and accept the consequences". It keeps the theme of protecting, and adds an aspect of leading whereby people are allowed to develop, while also adding the caveat that you can't protect people from the consequences of their own choices.

This isn't clear at all. There is some suggestion that Odium and the humans didn't arrive together, so much as at the same time, which would imply Odium wasn't the shard of Ashyn. I don't know that we have enough information to guess at Odium's involvement in the cataclysm on Ashyn. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/262-oathbringer-glasgow-signing/#e8808

See, here's the thing. I don't disagree with that at all. I think that's quite an astute assessment. Where the disagreement comes in for me, is the suggestion that a justice correction is what Adolin did. He didn't even think about justice. He thought about how much he hated Sadeas, snapped and enjoyed inflicting pain on him. Now I'm not saying that makes Adolin a bad person on balance, or a sadist, or a sociopath. I am however saying what he did, considering the motivation for his action was an immoral act, and he should regret the circumstances of that act, if not the outcome of it.

The illumination surge bends the light around me

I kind of see Sigzil as a different kind of windrunner. One that identifies more strongly with the leading aspect rather than the protecting aspect the others seem strongly drawn to. You could put Rock in that category too.

I really don't know. I haven't seen enough of each to make a call on that yet. I haven't read the White Sand prose because I don't want to spoil the graphic novels, and I've only read the first graphic novel (obviously). I have no idea what powers Silverlight might command. That's silly, Chasmfiends don't have wings. He'd bring a Lanceryn .

Also, Rock is far from the average bowman in terms of strength to begin with. He may not be able to draw a shardbow unaided, but he'd certainly be much closer to being able to than others, and so would require less additional aid. A little stormlight instead of the plate normally required.

Sel would create a very beautiful and by far the fastest ship - which would run out of investiture shortly after the starting line. Curse that geography limited magic! Nalthis would look promising initially, but due to having a dodgy awakening of the sail command - "Fly me" - end up contorting its pilot into the shape of an insect and subsequently buzz around annoying the spectators. Roshar would be fast and powerful, but inefficient, being designed for a highly invested world. They look like they're going to win, but, Scadrial, though slow and plodding for the most part due to the limited access to investiture wins, because Kelsier refuses to let anyone else win. Not death nor gods nor fate will prevent him winning. Kelsier throws one of those control box grenade things for the Scadrial ships at the Rosharan ship, sucking the investiture from it and disabling it, and Scadrial many hours later plods over the finishing line first. Sixth of Dusk observes the whole episode and wonders why these people think they are Aviar.

I'll take a stab at one. This is a parody of a song by Denis Leary, entitled after a body part. I've removed the worst of the vulgar language from it, but it has some colourful terms so if you find those offensive, don't open the spoiler. Heh, it autocorrected to an improved version!