Sir Jerric

Interesting thing I spotted today at work - Sir Jerric and A Smart Guy seem to be taking turns sitting in the thread, I assume watching for activity or lurkers, but it happened several times today. At one look, I'd see Sir Jerric in the thread, and the next time I checked, he'd be gone, and A Smart Guy was in his place. Or vice versa. It may be a total coincidence, I'll admit, probably is, but it did strike me as something odd, especially since neither of them were posting.

 

Of course, A Smart Guy has now posted, but Sir Jerric still hasn't.

 

Wyrm, you've answered my question for now. I might come back to you later though, depending on what others say, but for now...

 

Sir Jerric, are you and A Smart Guy conspiring?

So if I am reading this correctly, you are accusing me on suspicion of conspiring with another player to subtly expose ourselves as having the ability to conspire?

 

More seriously, I would like to know what the eliminators are meant to gain by watching the thread tag-team. And what you expect them to gain from activity monitoring either. If they want to know who isn't going to be on for a few hours to defend themselves from a bandwagon vote, all they would need to do is read people's posts. At least three people have indicated their sleep schedules thus far.

 

From the eliminators' perspective, any kill is a valid kill. This game has no roles to use as priority targets, and thus we see the common technique of hitting adept players like Meta. And any lynch that hits a villager role narrows their margin. As in most games of this type, this is going to be a matter of removing the active eliminators as soon as possible. While it was nice to get Lynchtarget out of the way, we didn't learn much from that.

 

An inactive villager is a boost to the villager body count, even if they aren't being helpful directly. Lynching them gives the eliminators a turn to kill without a threat against their acting players. As Wyrm has already pointed out, we really need to be targeting actives more than inactives. So I'd like A Smart Guy to explain why he is arguing for killing inactives, an approach explicitly condemned in the same post that contains Wyrm's "jest". Surely you are aware of that argument?

Edit: Vote Tally:

Haelbarde - 0: Wyrm

Wyrmhero - 0: Bort, smart guy

Mailliw73 - 0: Wyrm

Venture Mistborn - 1: Raven

Sir Jerric - 1: Bort

a smart guy - 3: Joe, Lopen, Jerric

TheMightyLopen - 1: Mailliw

Phattemer - 2: Vauhsoj, smart guy

Jain - 1: Wyrm

So we can infer that the lynch does not get handed off to the second highest votes if the lynch target uses their breath. Which makes sense story-wise as well as mechanically, so I'm fine with that on an unnecessary front as well. =)

While I like the idea of using serious threat of death to inspire useful conversation, the 24 hour quick fix format is going to make it hard for much back-and-forth to take place before the day ends. Which is mostly to say that it is probably too late to use this tactic on this cycle, but if we launch those debates at the start of the next cycle, we may get something for it. The trouble is putting the threat in fast enough to allow for a good debate.

I would like to know, Kipper (and others), does that plan work better with or without leaving a vote retraction window? If people feel the target is going to die no matter what is said, will anyone say anything useful? This is to say, if we aren't available to post several times a cycle, the functionality may be hampered.

The line of petitioners filed slowly across the turquoise-mosaic floor in the wake of the orange-robed underpriest. Trymmin hated coming to Jadebuffer's palace, but one of the perks a master merchant had was the funds to hire people like himself to do the jobs they didn't fancy. Jobs such as requesting tariff relief from Hallandren's least popular deity.

 

Jadebuffer stood at one side of his petition hall dais as the petitioners enetered, silhouetted against a broad window. Trymmin's eyes burned from the combination of intense colors, both from the pressed lines of Judebuffer's satin robes and the glittering tiles under his polished leather boots. Turquoise leather. Trymmin shuddered and turned away.

 

The underpriest announced the petitioners and turned to depart. "Rrond," Jadebuffer said, cutting off the fellow's retreat with a voice that made the room echo like a mausoleum. That was a trick Trymmin wished he could pull, speaking into an open window as Jadebuffer was. "Send to Ven the Procrastinator. Tell him to come immediately, since I'd like to speak to him this afternoon. You may go."

 

The underpriest bowed again. "As you wish, Your Grace."

 

Jadebuffer turned to the line of petitioners, his sunken eyes blank. His gaunt hands moved in endless spirals as he polished something under a thick orange cloth. Trymmin once again thought he'd rather be dealing with the god of Death. Then again, perhaps Jadebuffer the Eerie was the god of Death; it would explain a lot.

 

---

I'm not a big fan of bandwagon jumping at any point. What's your theory, Ven?

I'll break my extended absence and join in as Jadebuffer the Eerie in my "resplendent" robes of Turquoise and Orange. May all the Court cringe at my presence!

 

Feel free to assign me an area of governance in a writeup, if you so desire.

Kingdom, up for auction. Your bid?

 

 

The safest cookies have no spikes.

 

 

Shimmering petals danced on the whirlwind.

 

Harder than it seems!

 

 . . . .

 

Man, why is it so much easier to write these things as depressing/dystopian?

Because conflict is not inherently happy.  

My first thought on your environment: guard-golems + no people + separate building = no need for non-toxic breathable air.

 

Also, a potential aid for the brainstorming process: throwing the polar opposite of what characters are prepared to handle is good storytelling. How can each member start on a task they should be ready for only to find a trap / obstacle that isn't in their capacity?

The purpose of a goat is not to tell you how to think, but to give you questions to think upon.

 

It's a goat to everybody.

 

There's always another goat.

I also struggled with plotting. My inclinations tended more toward the worldbuilding than the character design, though I worked with both readily enough. But designing a plot completely baffled me, despite years consuming writing advice.

 

In December 2012, I set out to write a novel, hoping to brute force through the plot. By the end of a month, I knew that wasn't the way to do it. I set out to manage my learning process, step by step, and by June 2013 I had my first plot outlined. The outline wasn't that good, but it was a start. By October, I had nine rough story plots. Now, I formulate plots almost without trying.

 

Before I go farther, please note that this advice is coming from a guy who still has not completed a novel, despite being 30 months in progress. I am far from being an authority, so take this advice in a spirit of experimentation, if you please, and perhaps let me know if it helps?

 

 

So, what lessons did I use to start me down this road?

 

Brandon teaches three elements of story. I had setting down pat. I knew how to build characters. Plot, however, was anything but natural for me. So I started with the definition: what is a plot? A plot is a sequence of events, arranged to allow a reader to understand. A good plot keeps the reader interested. Quite cut and dry—so dry that I still don't have any lessons to wring out of it. =)

 

First lesson: Originality is an Advanced Skill

You asked about help with making original plots. I shared that thought to begin with. Being original is a plus, to be sure, but only if it is interesting and understandable. Even now, I could write a wildly original plot, but is originality enough to make it interesting?

 

In that first month, I tried and tried to find those amazing, original ideas that would make my novel fun to read. I was overwhelmed, really. There were too many options, and I didn't understand what I was supposed to be doing. I concluded that originality is hard, and its pursuit did not make for a good learning environment. I needed a better way to find plot ideas, a way that gave me a space in which I could sculpt, measure, and learn.

 

Second lesson: Fill your Toolbox

"Borrow plots from other works."

"Make lists of all the cool stuff that could happen."

"Use the Hollywood formula."

"Use the three act structure."

"Use the seven point story structure."

"Use the MICE quotient."

"Sort your ideas into waypoints."

"As the story progresses, raise the stakes."

"A story should have several try-fail cycles."

"Does ____ work? (Yes, but / No, and) things get worse."

 

These are several plotting tools that come readily to mind. You may have heard them before; you may be able to think of more. I'd heard all of these before that December of 2012. Knowing about this stuff wasn't enough. I needed to learn how to apply the advice. More to the point, I needed to know which ones belonged in my toolbox.

 

Third lesson: Develop your own Applications

When I first looked at all this advice, I tried to find a method that didn't fit into these strictures. But out there in the great unknown, there were no limits and no landmarks. Have you ever heard the saying, "Limitations breed creativity"? When I started using the tools instead of avoiding them, I had something to work toward, and everything became so much easier.

 

The most liberating part came when I finally realized that I did not have to use all the elements of any formula. Borrow a plot from the Brothers Grimm, and decide it ends on a low point. Use the MICE quotient to match an ending to the beginning. Ping the seven point structure for plot turn two—the last piece of the puzzle. Identify the core cast with the Hollywood formula. List out cool ideas from the setting and change the scenes of the source plot. List all the things the hero needs to know by the end and decide when to learn them. Ask why the hero doesn't just walk away at various points. Decide what "hitting rock bottom" looks like for this hero in this situation in this environment.

 

Notice how little of each formula I'm using. Instead of using any one thing, I've tested each and looked for what types of plot hole each can help me fill. And I learned that by taking each tool in turn and building an outline with it. Sometimes for the main plot, sometimes for a side plot, sometimes for a character's personal arc. My still unfinished novel has layers of parallel outlines, and I pull pieces from several at once to make a new scene. I've gotten stuck several times, and I back up, pick out what wasn't working, and develop a new through line to fix the hole. The amount of re-outlining I've done is ridiculous, but I've learned a ton about my process.

 

Hopefully some of this will help you out. If you want a walk-through with something you want to write, I'm game to help out either here or via PM. Meanwhile, I need to get back to finishing this much delayed first draft of mine. Ta ta for now. =)

If they are friends or relatives, can you introduce them all in a prologue? Something like a holiday party or a graduation ceremony. The trick will be introducing both their personalities and dreams, while setting up the right promises for your story.

That cover is amazing. Any idea who the artist is?

You've hit all four of the religions that got a section in Crafty's MAG expansion, so I'd guess that those are the ones that are going to be the players here. There is a note that Trellism and Trelagism are slightly distinct from one another. (Trelagism is the ancient stargazers' religion that Sazed has records of, and Trellism is the obscure, possibly extremist, modern splinter branch.)

 

As I recall, Mr. Suit is not a Trellist, but rather disdains Miles and his beliefs.

Well, I seriously didn't expect that to actually happen, but . . . wow. Congratulations to the village. A flawless game, all Eliminators down, no Villagers lost.

 

My first survival as well.

 

I'm curious as to what impact the eliminators think my plans had. All the fancy uses of Messaging were made and posted because I wanted to see if "changing the rules" messed with anyone's head. I'm guessing I didn't really wind up being that much of a bother. =)

 

Now we've finished both active games, and signups haven't started for another one yet. Perfect excuse to stop playing around and go get some work done.

Looking at the tally, I can see that I'm your best bet for getting a tie Gart. I like that I've been defended in this cycle by other players while I've been away and busy, and though I'm grateful, I'm also embarrassed at how badly I've not been paying attention.

 

I'm voting for you primarily because voting someone else to effect a tie is so Eliminator. If I was an Eliminator in this game, I would be more active. Not paying attention until somebody votes for me to get lynched is not the way Team Evil rolls methinks.

Even busy, you have been managing to visit the forums a fair bit. And Eliminators sitting back and not gathering much attention until they are called out has been a fairly common approach.

But I'm not certain enough to push for lynching you this cycle. I am retracting my vote for Quismet.

I would like to hear more from Tahrin as well, but I think I am getting more and more suspicious of Gart. Choices, choices.

Edit:

Votes thus far:

Lyce (0): Binnut

Gart (3): Wurum, Aladdin, Quismet

Kaladen (1): Gamin

Quismet (1): Serji, Gart

Tahrin (1): Twlv

Faisan (1)

Naihar (1)

To get today's lashings coordinated, Gamma, you may want to ask in the doc how many of the squires can send a coded message with their lashings. Or, we could have all of them post "coded" messages and then translate after all are posted to suppress kill targeting.

Your updated plan sounds good to me. As long as the messages match the lashing types to the keywords.

I personally would like to hear more from the semi-active Quismet, who has yet to post her thoughts since last cycle.

 

Edit: Retracted Vote

The strange red storm cam up fast, but like most wise fishermen, Serji and I hadn't gone far from the town. Between the carefully rigged sail and a heavy hand with the oars, we hit the beach with several minutes to spare. Serji set to gathering the catch and the nets, while I rolled the boat hull-stormward and chained it down.

 

The wind shifted unsteadily with oncoming storm, bringing with it a distinctive scent. My head snapped up, looking past Serji and up to the crest of the rocks over the beach. Serji and I both stared at the whitespine, and it glared back. Serji had an empty net draped over one arm, but a fisher's net is far too heavy for throwing, and he had a large bundle of fish stooping his back.

 

The whitespine growled, haunches curling to leap. A burst of wind caught at my sleeves, and I saw Serji stagger under his burden.

 

Claws scraped on rock, overlapped by a heavy thunk. The whitespine lunged out at Serji, and crashed into the sand with a massive arrow through its head. I turned to see Mallaw standing dozens of strides closer to the town, dropping a second arrow back into his quiver.

 

I knew the old man liked his bow, but putting an arrow in that thing's head would have been a challenge in a calm. I'd have to repay him for this somehow. But first, best to be off the beach.

 

-----

 

I've been scanned? Spiffy. I just wish someone else was scanned so I'd have some new information to work with. =)

 

Sent one message to Wurum and received one message this time. I'm sure mine will be recognizable by the five digit sequence number and the absurd title I signed it with.

 

Full Lashings take effect first, so unless Tulir was a Squire, or if there is another henchman squire, I am guessing that Tunnib or Naihar was the Full Lashing target?

Votes thus far:

Aladdin (1): Rulit, Gart

Naihar (0): Wurum, Aladdin

Mallaw (1): Wurum, Aladdin

Jain (2): Serji, Wurum, Gamin

Twlv (0): Naihar

Rulit (4): Binnut, Naihar, Wurum, Mallaw, Wurum

Serji (0): Wurum

Quismet (1): Twlv

 

Inactive (+1 vote):
Faisan (AonarFaileas)
Tahrin Resten (Theorymaker)
Lyce (luckat)

 

Jain didn't reply to my question about why he bothered to even put that data together. Ought to be an easy question. My vote on him still applies, for now.

Yes, the message I received had a simple ketek in it. That was in the quote I posted earlier, so Gart's claim is only marginally definitive. But unless someone else is going to contradict him, I doubt there is any need to persue that further.

. . . I sent no message last night, but I did receive one. A rather odd one at that. Unsigned, but I suspect Ashiok based on yesterday's conversation between him and Tulir.

”?emal uoY

.tsop siht egasseM .desrever egassem siht tosP"

What do you think? Am I too literal?

Edit: If twelfth would like to compare the mystery message with my style more thoroughly, please note that I don't use commas to divide them. I'm one of the most flagrant (and accurate) users of semicolons around.

Serji and I launched the little fishing boat. He'd been rather quiet since yesterday, spending an unusual amount of time in his little lean-to shack, and I cast off my own silence to try and figure out why. He seemed almost startled by my bring up the matter.

 

"We're still out here fishing," He pointed at the boat for emphasis, "despite Reginar and his Skybreaker hunts. We've lives to live and livings to earn. Not to mention chores to do."

 

I filled him in on the unpleasant talk that had been going around. People had been getting suspicious of him not being active in helping address the problems.

 

Serji spent a few moments spreading the nets for casting before he replied. "I suppose that's a sensible stance to take, all considered. How can they tell what you're doing if you don't provide a reference to check?"

 

He really didn't sound like he was taking things seriously. Sure, Reginar's little mob had taken down two of those law-blinded killers, but sooner or later, things would get out of hand.

 

He gave a little half-smile as he looked at me. "At least your a caring fellow. Haven't even known me for two months and already you're set on keeping me out of trouble. I'll work on keeping things above board. That'll calm their talk. Maybe not quickly, but more thoroughly than anything else would."

 

-----

 

Read back through everything to date, and still find myself hard pressed to attach any significant suspicions to anyone. Which I'm not surprised by; my record for voting in LG 6 was rather dismal while I was working alone despite how good my logic sounded. I suppose I'm over-compensating on caution this time.

 

I find myself curious who sent the odd message I received. Unless I missed the statement somewhere, no one has claimed it yet.

 

Going forward, I'll try to find something to vote for, if for no other reason than to allow Full Lashings to be visible when used on me. If I cannot find an option that I have good reason to suspect, I'll just pick by intuition among people who don't have votes to make the cancel obvious. Unless someone can explain why this would be a bad plan? I know one side effect is the timing of a skipped Division could make me look bad. But that could happen in any of a number of ways, and I doubt that the remaining SB is going to want to waste chances to hit the Good Radiants with the existing disadvantage, but it's a gambit that might be attempted.

 

And a short answer to the "Why haven't you been voting?" Lack of info (day 2), and inactivity (day 3).

 

Most of my tactical considerations have been thrown out the window with all that happened day 3. TW revealed, and he's in the squire doc, and two of the other squires made public as well. Easy to cross-communicate in this new environment. The slim amount of GM info gives tracking actions a steep learning curve.

 

I guess I'll vote for Jain for now, since he has been obsessively silent all game His only significant post is a bunch of data points with no conclusions. What interested you in that data? You must have had some purpose, since you took the time to write it up. What does that data mean to you?

Ashiok, really? Since when is it ever the right idea to let trusted roles dictate everything and give up on providing your own input? More talking is always valuable.
 
I'm behind on my reading through the game thread. Got busy with other things, so I've got about 90% of the previous day's posts to ponder over again. I sent no message last night, but I did receive one. A rather odd one at that. Unsigned, but I suspect Ashiok based on yesterday's conversation between him and Tulir.
 
”?emal uoY
 
.tsop siht egasseM .desrever egassem siht tosP"
 
What do you think? Am I too literal?
 
Interesting events. Looks like my decision to trust Gamma based on his reply was justified. I'll come back to offer thoughts once I've had a chance to ponder everything properly, which might not be until after work tomorrow.

@ Mallaw: I assume the 100%-er is mine? You're welcome to reply to my message in thread, if you wish to reply at all, since privacy for that particular subject is largely meaningless. =)

Thank you, Ashiok, for mentioning the vote tally. I forgot to pay attention to that. So a Full Lashing was used on Metam? He might have been the missing kill action, as one possible reason for the "inactive" option. A WR probably used the Full Lashing, though if a squire had the option, that could have been the case too. I have been wondering if the WR's recruited anyone the first day, since the conversation was so thin it would be hard to get a read on people.

 

The only party in a position to use that power for protective vote manipulation is the WR for the other WR, but a simple vote tally would have revealed that as being unnecessary, so I doubt that was the intent.

 

I thought of another use for Messages. (Old saw, I know.) The primary design (or, the first use I thought of) behind the messages is to allow the TW to send "Alex is a henchman squire" to someone who could report that to the thread, thereby shielding the TW from exposure. But if four messages in that format go around, blaming different people, how do we trust that info?

Now that we are in Day Three, the TW will have just received the first Illumination result. Unless they expose themselves, they can't share until the close of Day Three. The puzzle is how we are to know that the message is real and not a trick. The best method is for them to find a trusted party, and then establish communication with that person using a verification scheme, reporting all results to them. Except for the part where a Reverse Lashing could delay the message going through, if the Skybreakers caught on.

Of course, the TW could be setting up two alternating conversations, checking both of them, and then alternating the reports back and forth. And another thing I hadn't considered before, but is a really good idea, is that once the conversation has begun, the participants can drop their names from the signature (instead of "Beth the Grumpy" just sign it "the Grumpy one"), since a verification like mine or Aonar's can replace the easily faked name, and a stolen report from the TW that doesn't say who sent it is going to be a potent security measure against a stolen message getting the TW targeted.

And this is posted early enough for it to have full usefulness, so none of that "Should have posted that on Day ###", this time, alright? =)

Big tangent aside, the other important thing to do with messages: Noise.

 

People keep reporting getting piles of messages. If that player is targeted by a Reverse Lashing, whose message is stolen?

Reverse Lashing: Allows you to target a player, and steal one Message that they would have received. That player will not receive the Message, but you will, at the beginning of the following cycle. Cannot be used two days in a row.

Even if you have no particular reason to be sending a message to someone, the presence of a message that isn't important can shield a message that is important. Extra benefit is gained by sending your message to someone you think is going to be receiving a useful message (Like the TW's contact(s)), since the useful message is more likely to get through.

That being the case, I think that having people say how many messages they've been sending and receiving could be useful data. Volunteering who you sent to may also be helpful, but I do not want to require that of anyone, since that could give away too much.

I've received nothing either cycle, by the way. =)

Splendid write up there, Renegade.

From that, it looks like the SB's choose Division versus Wurum for one, and either Reverse Lashing or inactive for the other.

The Basic Lashing may have been either of the WR's or possibly a squire. Rather cool that it happened to work out to save someone.

The odds of Wurum's survial being any kind of a gambit are next to none. The henchmen and the SB's had a doc to plan in on Day one. On day two, a henchman might have been activated as a squire, and might have received the Basic Lashing. But to attack a teammate on that same cycle -- before any message could be sent -- that kill would have been made on the blind chance of two variables falling into place. Only other solution is that the henchmen had a special code blended into a public post that informed the SB's of their new power and triggered the gambit.

So, more than mildly likely, Wurum is on the village side of this game. Unless I missed something?

Since both Skybreakers can use Reverse Lashing, they could theoretically trade off back and forth to maintain the deception. Of course, it wouldn't hold up if anything were brought up in the thread though.

Assume Carl and Emma are Skybreakers. They want to use continual Reverse lashings on Bill to deceive Abby.

 

On Day two, Abby messages Bill. Carl lashes Bill and messages Emma to let her know. Emma is doing something else.

 

On Day three, Abby messages Bill with an addendum. Carl gets Abby's message and writes a reply. Emma lashes Bill and messages Carl.

 

On Day four, Abby gets Carl's reply and messages "Bill" with a reply of her own. Carl lashes Bill and messages Emma with Abby's message and his reply. Emma receives Abby's addendum, but does not know anything about the original message or the reply -- she is unable to reply coherently, so messages Carl about the addendum instead.

 

On Day five, Abby gets no message from "Bill" despite the priority nature of the addendum. Carl receives Emma's message on the addendum and Abby's latest message -- he knows everything, and has to try explaining why "Bill" didn't reply like he should have, and has to hope that Abby doesn't mention anything to Bill in the thread.

 

And if Bill has been sending Abby messages without getting replies? Or if the lashing picked up Dan's message to Bill instead of Abby's?

 

I rather hope the Skybreakers do try that in this game. What a messy waste of time. =)

 

I don't have any solid suspicions at this point, so I'll not be voting this cycle. I don't even know how the votes stand at the moment, and by the time I total them, the Cycle may be over. =)

This cycle has not yet seen posts from Jeno, Kaladen, and Lyce.

 

@ Aonar: interesting system idea, but lacks a bit in internal consistency in this draft.

(3210) - l i k e - ( i ) is usually the ninth letter - (329) perhaps?

(4125) - m y - ( m ) is the thirteenth letter - (4225) or (4113)?

(335) - l i k e - ( k ) is the eleventh letter - (345) or (3311)?

One of the keys to a good system is making sure that people are consistent in applying it. Of course, foolproof design is impossible, but such is life. Your example dropped the sequence number part, which also costs you the ambiguous announcements and two-step verification, but I'll admit, the math is more accessible. Would you propose extending that to referring to all previous messages with multiple numbers in each signature?

 

Also, a more significant hole: All Lashings have a one cycle cool-down, so if you threw in an extra message on the off day, you'd discover the fake. Not to mention if people use the more obvious tricks of subtle references to messages in their public posts ("Use the word 'terrible' in the thread to acknowledge.").

 

Made myself an Aonar-esque diagram, but there isn't much on there yet. I don't know how much use it will be, but I thought I'd try. This lack of doc discussion for the Skybreakers will hopefully lead to some interesting dynamics. Random reverse lashings could be useful just for the chance to cut / delay their communications, even if the information is concealed in some sneaky way. The base game for the village should be seeing these messages as a perk, but the eliminators are only slightly better off than in QF 2 (temporary doc, interceptable.messages).

I think we're focusing too much on the messages and the messaging system. We have Serji's system in place for those that want to use it (While I might use the first part, I don't think I'll use the second. Seems like a lot of work for little gain. If you have a rapport built up enough with someone to be able to notice this code, then if they don't message you during a Cycle, there's a good chance the message was stolen anyways), so we need to move on from that.

 

I was hoping to get Lyce to come in and start talking with my early vote, but since it's been awhile now and no response, she's either lurking or really hasn't checked on. My two main suspects based on everything at this point are Serji and Quismet.

 

Quismet was pretty quick about getting back to Wyrm once a vote was thrown her way and while the coding for the messages does appear helpful, as Mallaw pointed out, this would've been a better topic for Day 1. It could be that the reason he waited to reveal it now was specifically to get us off topic or he might've had help planning it in a Doc...

My vote will probably go to one of them unless something else comes up or they can defend themselves adequately. 

On day one, I posted to complain that no one was talking. I suggested that people consider the options present in the messaging action since for about 12 of the people in the game (assuming the 5 radiants and 2 henchmen model), that was the only thing to do on day one.

 

Among my suggestions were two schemes for baiting people. My first message falls into that category, in my opinion. Another suggestion was to use it mostly for PMing, and that seemed to be the popular view among responses.

Given that, I decided to give further consideration to my idea for adding security to the Messages. Excessive and overblown, completely unable to stop message stealing, but useful in various small ways.

I've already replied once to Mallaw's remark of "better on day one", but I didn't start designing it until late in the cycle after I got off work. The Number scheme was easy enough to debug, but it still went through three drafts before I posted it. The Signature scheme had some big holes, and I didn't get that debugged until less than six hours ago.

Sure, the system might have been easier to design with the more direct feedback of a doc, but I have a programming degree, and it was a fun exercise.

In summary, I did start this on day one, but I had limited real life time for rapid development cycles. And besides, the system is designed for just tossing it in if you want to. There is no harm done by adding it to a conversation five days down the line. The key benefits are that it becomes hard to insert a fake message into an existing conversation, and it is a little easier to catch the timing of a stolen message. The slow feedback of the Message system means that public discussion is far faster, but at the cost of revealing more information about your activity.

And if deploying it discourages liars from trying to send dishonest messages, excellent.

-----

Now that I've turned the message system inside out, and now that voting is a potential action, I am more than happy to move the conversation to people's content. As I said above, my message was a straight up ambiguity. That was a design feature. The reader has to make assumptions about my meaning, which also conceals my intent.

If people want my intentions, I am trying to use this kind of approach:

 

My original choice was to give the players limited or exclusive information. In the game of Werewolf, a standard elimination game, you have three tools at your disposal. The first is asking for information. The second is offering information. The third is lying. By giving limited information, and display information with in-narrative lists involving deductive reasoning and reading comprehension instead of the more clear and obvious out of game descriptions (which I eventually resorted to), I created additional space for people to use these tools.

However, in practice, no one seemed to use them. It took until the third day before people began to request information about other players, and began to reveal information about themselves (or lie about it). The dynamic developed much more slowly than I anticipated, and this is probably a combination of people being unfamiliar with the format, people being unwilling to take risks with limited information, and the fast pace of the game events.

At one point, Nepene linked a post saying "We're basically voting at random, we have no choice but to lose". Of course, this was not true. There was no need to vote at random. There was a need for the Innocents to actively search for information about the other players - inactivity is most helpful to the Eliminators, in all cases. That's the core of the game. In a forum scenario, with the above factors, communication became more difficult.

*emphasis added*

I wrote to Gamma, offering information (obscurely), to see what manner of reaction I would get. I believe that his reaction implies "good guy" alignment. I'm currently offering a huge amount of information in this post and in my other ones. I'm also asking for information in regards to feedback on my message system and on other people's reactions to Gamma's reaction to me.

Things I am analyzing include who is seems to desire more PM security (they might be feeling the lack of doc access), and who talks down the system (they might have plans for the Reverse Lashing and feel threatened). I only promote the messaging system as an oblique method of reading people. (Now I'm daring people to move on to other topics under threat of subtle self-exposures. Mwahahah! Ahem.)

The third tool I threw in a waste bin many years ago, in another lifetime, and I'm not going to try finding another copy. You can question this if you wish, but the proof is in my play history.

Am I laying too many cards on the table? Maybe. I'm still rather new at this. But I have a pile of index cards handy, so I can make new cards if I need to. =D

 

Tomorrow I'll be busy until just before the end of cycle. I might place a vote before bed though, if I see something interesting enough.

 

Oh, and Theorymaker? Gamma still has a vote placed on me up there. Post #22.

Ah yes. That was the part I was trying to remember to include and could think of. Thank you for reminding me.

 

The original message had "(13)Famed Gamin," as it's opening line.

 

Why I sent the message:

One, talking is important.

Two, I'd never tried initiating a conversation in my previous games, so I wanted to try it this time.

Three, you and I had some rather amiable conversations in MR 1, so I thought you'd be a good selection.

Four, in MR 1, you turned out to be an Enemy Sharder, but I had caught on to that, so I hoped to get a read on you this time.

Five, in MR 1, you killed me with your fancy awakened Shardblade, and I thought it would be fun to reference that.

Six, I was sleepy enough at the time to think that presenting myself ambiguously would be amusing.

 

As it turns out, I think the message did it's job quite well. I can't think of any good reasons why you would post it publicly like that if you were a eliminator, so I am rather more inclined to the idea that we are on the same side this game.

 

Of course, if anyone else can think of a reason why Gamma might post that way as an eliminator, I'd love to know what I'm overlooking. =)

 

Have to leave for a couple more hours. Ta ta for now. =)