Sir Jerric

Kobold's Creation Daily thread is quite impressive, given its simple starting point. I find myself interested in a similar, but tangential matter. As a storyteller, one needs to research a large range of topics to maintain a high quality suspension of disbelief. And researching by oneself gets dull. And sometimes you have a hard time figuring out where to start. So I am starting SIRI, named for a character who did historical research by asking a storyteller in some novel or another that you may have read , and nothing to do with a oddly named piece of smartphone software . Feel free to share the cool things you've been researching, or questions that you're still trying to answer, or what ever you like. Then have some fun with the research process by chatting with other people about their subjects-of-interest. Kicking things off, after concocting a magic power that had some interesting limitations, I thought that said magic would be interesting to use in gem cutting and other jewelry making. Turns out that faceting a gem by hand in a dark ages milieu is a tricky business, since "by hand" still involves grinding wheels and possibly a stabilizing mechanism to avoid spoiling the project with a finger fumble. Chisels hardly come in after the first steps of splitting along fault lines.

Ebris -- Ee-bris. Masculine. (Egyptian?) Sareth* -- Sair-eth. Feminine. (Middle Ages? Almost trying too hard? As in, "Sareth worketh too hard." values of trying too hard?) Thay -- Thay. Masculine. (Asia minor?) Dael -- Dale. Either. (Gaelic?) Lysen -- Lie-sen. Feminine. (Fantasy generic?) Caesarae -- Kay-sar-ray or See-zar-ay. Place name. (Diphthong accenting is unclear.) Kagé -- Cage. Masculine. (Yeah, my brain ignored the diacritic.) Ossein -- Os-say-en. Masculine. (North Asian?) Télruit -- Tell-rue-it. Place name. (Can you tell I don't bother with diacritics?) Adrik -- Add-rick. Masculine. (European?) Please note that all names must be absolutely unique to your own work, and should share no similarities in either spelling or pronunciation to the names of any other works either published or private. In fact, you probably are best off using a non-latin character set to avoid such associations.

The name is probably fine. I read it as Sar-ee-ath Leen-nah-var. I find myself assuming feminine. Kahad -- Kah-had. Masculine. (Gutteral?) Argisen -- Ar-gih-sin. Masculine. (Saxon noble?) Ts -- Tis. . . . Um. (Not fond of this one.) Daron -- Dare-on. Masculine. (I've used this one myself.) Benghar -- Ben-gar. Masculine. (Desert nomad?) Beam -- Beem. Masculine. (Sci-fi nickname?) Usef -- Oo-sef. Masculine. (Tribal patriarch?) Hyrenes -- High-ree-knees. Feminine. (Greek?) I am not entirely sure what would be a wrong name, so I've just tossed my first-read assumptions. If those aren't the expected reactions, get more opinions and see if reactions are consistent. And more to the point, decide if the reactions are undesirable.

Personally, I would continue as is, while noting the need for complex but well defined motivations. The reader reaction is not wrong, but the reader's prescription often is.

Are you waiting for something in particular? Because I'm fairly certain you're already qualified.

Should I keep hoping for the princess to spin straw into gold then? While I haven't had any ideas that fit with my aims either, I have better defined why I want to tell my story, which is never a bad thing. Sounds like an interesting story. Do you mind if I continue tossing around a few more suggestions? If so, I guess you can stop reading here. For a little context: during work on my own project, I built character motivations be analyzing the sum of their activities through out the story, and asked myself "what would make someone behave that way?" So if my suggestions look more like plot ideas, it is because I am trying to find patterns of behavior without having direct access to the real events. Since you didn't provide anything to work with, I am going to assume that the princess's magic does not play into Minor Villain's motivation and ignore it. Lady Minor (she is a lady now) lives in the far western provinces? Was she once closer to the capital and the imperial court? Did she get ostracized by political machinations? Might the current emperor have wronged her and her family, forcing them into a disgraced withdraw? Personally, I think revenge is way overdone as a motive, and I tend to get disgusted with those characters. So instead of revenge, does Lady Minor seek to redress a injustice done? Perhaps she has been simmering in the western political backwater, and has seen many other evidences of imperial misdeeds (real or perceived)? Many nobles take an oath of fealty to their overlords, and the overlord gives an oath of support in return. Does Lady Minor believe that the emperor broke his oath to her family? Does Lady Minor think that the coup is justified by higher moral authority? Does she believe that a god intends for the empire to change hands? Does Lady Minor act on a religious faith that Major Villain does not believe in, yet they work toward a common goal? When did Lady Minor become involved in the coup? Did Major Villain recruit her, or did she approach Major Villain? (If the later, how did she find out about Major Villain's goal, or did Lady Minor actually instigate the whole thing?) What does Lady Minor think of Major Villain's plans and skill of execution? Does she have evidence for her opinion? Is Major Villain the "everything is moving according to plan" type, and thus Lady Minor is not inclined to cross or question? Or is Major Villain the "some setbacks are inevitable" type, and thus Lady Minor can bicker and argue? Or is Major Villain an untried source, and the first misjudgement provokes a betrayal by the underlings? So, when you say most . . . does that mean that the "rescued from the kidnappers" option is still on the table? Because I thought of some more fun in conjunction with this section, and I'm going to indulge in a little further exploration of that. Again, you won't hurt my feelings by ignoring me entirely. [storytime] Lady Minor hires mercenaries (or recruits an ally) from beyond the empire's border and sends them to kidnap the princess. They break in (or whatever scenario), snatch the lady in the imperial finery, and bundle her away, successfully evading the uproar and pursuit. They reach the rendezvous with Lady Minor (or her representative). The villain are already murdering imperial hiers; what is the value of a few foreigners? (Double-cross may be complicated by not bringing the hostage to the meeting. ) (Eventually) Lady Minor "rescues" the hostage and brings her safe to her rural manor. The lady-in-waiting has been very loyal and courageous. She knew that if her captors had learned that she was not the imperial princess, her life would likely be forfeit. But now she is safe in a loyal noble house, so she reveals the deception. [/storytime] I am enthralled with all of the complications that could come of that scenario. Does Lady Minor get angry? Does she panic? How will Major Villain react if she finds out that the kidnapping was bungled? What should Lady Minor do with the hostage? Would she be rewarded for returning the hostage to her mistress? What if the lady-in-waiting had cracked and let the truth slip before the rendezvous? Would the kidnappers head back for a second try? Or was there a more dangerous (to the princess) fall-back plan that may yet be executed? Meanwhile, does the princess-on-the-loose reveal herself to her allies? Does she hide at her allies' urging, or to preserve the life of the lady-in-waiting, or because she fears that she was betrayed, or because she and/or her allies want to let the trap finish springing first, or all of the above?

Glad to hear that you liked it. Are you planning to write that story? You have a decent outline going, and it would be a shame to waste all of that work. As for my story, thank you for your efforts in trying to come up with a plot, but that is not what I'm looking for help with. I am still seeking ideas (plural) for problems that the pair can confront, within the constraints previously mentioned. If you come up with any I'll gladly consider them. In the future, please keep in mind that the best way to help a writer is to identify what they are passionate about, and pushing them to pursue that. =)

I actually don't have more plot to share than I have already, but I can tell it more concisely. The pair of normal people are the protagonists. All POV's are (probably) from the pair. The antagonist role is up for grabs. The inciting incident reveals the problem to the pair. The fateful decision is when the pair decide to engage with the problem themselves. The resolution has the pair successfully resolving the problem. The denouement reveals her reaction to the pair's solution. The rest of the plot outline is nothing but mist and haze, and even what I've shared is no more than the roughest of formulaic jargon. I have nothing specific about this ephemeral problem yet. The only fixed points are the ones I shared originally: Thanks for the suggestions. Not sure that they fit with my expression of her as a uber-Gandalf figure. I have no desire to tell a story in which her competence is reduced or at all doubted. My aim is to tell a story where the question of whether the pair should let her solve the problem herself is a potential obstacle for them to overcome. Lord Minor knows about the potential for military reprisal (Minor Villain is a male for now). This is a good sign, as that implies that Lord Minor thinks ahead. In order to make his motivations interesting, you will want to think ahead in turn. An army does not deploy on too many fronts at once, lest they be defeated on all of them. Can the army be tied up in another conflict to delay them? Does Lord Minor have the ability to disguise his participation? Can he plant a false trail leading to a rival? Can the rival be someone he has amiable relations with, to reduce the odds of his being the next suspect? Does the magic system allow for harvesting power for later use? Can Lord Minor use the princess to charge a magic battery for his personal use? Does this magic have something like a Rumpelstiltskin effect? Can the princess be locked in a room filled with straw and be told to spin it into gold? Gold is useful for many exit strategies. Can Lord Minor be planning an alliance with a external government, and double-cross Major Villain under their protection? Can Lord Minor convince the princess that he is on her side, and rescue her from her kidnappers? I believe I might be over-complicating the optimal selection of events. What is the simplest version of the grand plan? How much leeway does Lord Minor have in his role? Can he develop his own kidnapping plan? @ Eternal_Radiance: Please note the above as an example of "give as you expect to receive". I do not expect to be provided with the right idea for my story. I am hunting for ideas. Go wild.

That is an option that might someone could explore, but that is again an internal sort of problem. Are you familiar with the concept of the antagonist? Not to be confused with the villain, though they can be one and the same in many stories. The antagonist creates obstacles in the protagonist's pursuit of a goal. The antagonist does not need to be evil, or unfriendly, or even opposed to the protagonist's goal. In some ways, she could be labeled the antagonist. The pair of normal people (the protagonists) want to do something for her benefit, but her superior capability is creating a major obstacle. However, she is more an element of the setting than she is either antagonist or protagonist. I am seeking conflicts that stem from her nature, not from changing her or her place in the setting. She is the status quo. I might find a threat to the status quo interesting, but stories that result from changing the status quo do not fit my chosen theme. I hope I am not discouraging you with all of this counter-argument. I'd rather just point at ideas that sound cool in your posts and see where positive input takes you. With these short suggestions, there isn't much to work with. So I turn instead to trying to express the form of what sounds appealing to me. If nothing else, you are still helping me refine what I want. =)

Making molten glass from sand is easy enough if they can generate a high enough temperature. But in my understanding, useful glass (such as transparent, or durable) is a product more of controlled cooling. And the shaping process is yet another function. So I'd say a great deal of the possibility depends on the extent of your fire magi power set, or on the available technology to fill the gaps.

Thank you for your suggestion. (And there is no need to double post within a day. =) There is an edit link at the bottom of each post) You understood the irony of the "social grace" comment as intended. Most people on first meeting her react with fear and run. However, I also noted the "political influence" of Gandalf. She has contacts with the rulers and high nobility of several kingdoms, and can ask those contacts to get things done for her. While the problem you propose could be interesting, it seemed too commonplace a story to excite me. I picture her as not caring if most people accept her or not. She has her friends who have gotten to know her, and those friends are sufficient for her objectives. If you can think of some more problem ideas, some that are external to her (as in, not caused by her flaws, but possibly made difficult by her flaws), I would appreciate more input. (This is not the first time I've requested help with this puzzle. Previous suggestions offered up the angles of "she cannot solve a problem she does not know about" or "she cannot be everywhere at once." Which could work, if you want to explore those further, but if the reader asks "couldn't she have solved that better herself?" then I need to have an answer to make the story satisfying.)

You want to help with story development? Perhaps you can help me with this puzzle. She has the wisdom, magical capability, and political influence of Gandalf. She has the invulnerability, strength, and social grace of the Incredible Hulk, minus the anger issues. She has a problem that she cannot resolve, and a pair of normal people are going to take care of it on her behalf. What are some problems that could fit this frame? Expect the reader to want to know why she could not resolve the problem herself.

Wyrm and Bort both did a fine job of keeping me distracted there. I guess I really should have gone with lynching Vauhsoj sooner. He was always on my watch list, and I almost chose him for that final vote. I had even been thinking last night of how I'd act as an eliminator, and I realized that Wyrm could be using the very strategy I was contemplating. How foolish of me not to take myself seriously. =) Great game everyone. Wyrm, I got a screenshot of your 1337-ness if you want it. =)

I find this interesting. Myself, last cycle: Lopen, just above: Did Lopen not read my previous post, and thus came to this conclusion on his own? Which means at least two people are getting that impression of a pattern in the Rebel kills. Or did he read my post once, get inspired / biased to seek out that pattern? Which means that he found what he was told to see. Or did he read my post and choose to ignore / not address my alternative conclusion? Which might mean he has a motive for choosing to overlook the other option? Given the trend of other things I've mentioned in my posts being only responded to by those who tend to write large posts themselves, the third option is possible but quite unlikely. But still, Lopen, if you are around these parts, I wouldn't mind knowing whether you had read my post before finding that pattern. And if you would care to share your read on the possibility of my conclusion, that would also be appreciated. Wyrm, I call you the last experienced player mostly out of experience bias. You were a skilled player before I started, as were Maill, Joe, and Alvron. Jain was new about the same time I was. The rest of our players began after MR 2, my last game before this. Thus, my bias. However, if you wish me to give up that terminology, that can be done. Might as well do up another vote tally, if only for my own ease of consideration. Cycle Six Vote Tally: (Edited) Vauhsoj - 1: -Raven-, Orlok Raven - 0: -Wyrm- Wyrm - 2: Raven, Lopen Lopen - 2: Vauhsoj, Wyrm Orlok - 2: -Wyrm-, Bort, Jerric Bort - 0: -Wyrm- Only Jain the Inactive and myself have not voted. Interesting to note that the eliminators (and the villagers) have killed off all those inactives save one. And as I recall, most of the inactives that were murdered had just been stating their intentions to participate more (as well as speaking against Wyrm). I still find the framing of Wyrm a more likely pattern than Wyrm marking himself by "discouraging" people who speak out against him. In addition, if the eliminators have been holding off on Wyrm, Raven, and myself the last two cycles in light of Adamir's "random" protection, that is no longer a concern. I do not feel that Wyrm is the right lynch this cycle. Raven has given me no particular reasons to cast a vote against her. And my point about protection applies to her even more so. Bort's methods have given me the impression that he is a villager and has been doing what he can to try feeling everyone out. He has the weakest support in my light-suspicion block, but I have nothing to hold against him. Lopen has been considerably more active recently, perhaps due to the weekend. His posts have been making stabs at following my proposals of open sharing, which holds consistently enough with his new player behavior. Orlok has finished four SE games, and is enrolled in two active games. Slightly more experienced than I am, I should think. But I have not read through the recent games, and I have no idea if he has been staying true to form or not. The posts I have seen from him have not been the most productive. He voted for Kipper and Venture before this, but has otherwise abstained from voting. Vauhsoj has mostly done roleplay and unexplained votes throughout the game. When pushed into giving an explanation, they were mostly attributed toward spontaneity. Online regularly enough to post, but does not join in with the general discussion. Jain is inactive, and I think Wyrm already summed that case up about as thoroughly as possible. I plan to come back to place a vote after ruminating on this for a little longer, but then I shall be retiring for the night and the rest of the cycle. Edit to avoid a double post: I will place my vote on Orlok this cycle. Reasons as stated above, combined with not being convinced enough of the other choices. I expect this cycle will get messy.

Player List: Orlok Tsubodai - ??? - Black/Red -- Haelbarde - Droll the Spontaneous - Maroon/Green -- Murdered Returned -- Kipper - Aleck the Smart - Purple/Green -- Murdered Returned Wyrmhero - Redcross the Healer - Red/White -- Venture Mistborn - Ven the Procrastinator - Green/Gold -- Lynched Returned -- Phattemer - Heavenpest the Massive - Dark Green/Neon Brown -- Lynched Returned -- Shallan - Lynchtarget the Innocent - Gold/White -- Lynched Rebel Bort - Bortholomew the Blind - White/Grey -- Adamir - Shar, God of Sacrifice - Red/Gold -- Sacrificed Returned -- Alvron - Brightwater the Keen - Deep Green/Silver -- Murdered Returned Ser Jerric - Jadebuffer the Eerie - Turquoise and Orange Lightsworn Panda - Jain the Panda - Black/White Vauhsoj - Funweaver the Festive - Pink/Yellow RavenRadiant7 - Ri the Mytsterious - Black/Silver -- MetaCognition - Metacognition the Thoughful -- Murdered Returned -- Mailliw73 - Braveheart, God of War - Dark Red/Purple -- Murdered Returned -- A Smart Guy - Artweave the Painter - Brown/Mint Green -- Lynched Returned -- The Only Joe - Sharkbait the Incompetent - Blue/Copper -- Lynched Returned The Mighty Lopen - Gancho the Crass - Purple/White Eight players left. At least three are Rebels. If we get this next lynch wrong, the numbers will be three against three. Village isn't doing too well. Well, Adamir did follow through this time. And Alvron was the kill target. Now Wyrm is the only experienced player left. Of course, I pointed out last cycle that Wyrm was about the most likely to be protected in a random selection, followed by Raven and myself, so I wouldn't have expected any of us to be the target this time. But even if Wyrm is a Rebel, there are two others as well. If I look at who appears to be standing up for whom, it seems clear that Jerric and Bort have been the most supportive. Perhaps Raven as well, though she did express some doubts two cycles back. Yes, I am being a little facetious, putting my own name into the list. But I am trying to look objectively at those people that I've defended thus far. How solid is my reasoning to pass by them when choosing this next lynch? (Pre-post addendum: the above was fully written before Raven posted.)

Dead men tell no tales, but they will correct your BBCode.

Cycle Five Vote Tally: Orlok - 1: -Raven-, Bort Alvron - 1: Wyrm Vauhsoj - 0: -Bort- Jain - 0: -Vauhsoj- Only Joe - 3: Raven, Jerric, Lopen Wyrm - 3: Alvron, Joe, Vauhsoj Lopen - 0: -Vauhsoj- We are still tied. I suppose I'll have to be content with that. I don't have the time before the cycle ends to do any detailed analysis, and if I do change my vote, Wyrm is doomed for sure. Vauhsoj says Wyrm has been controlling the conversation since phattemer got lynched. That is what, a cycle and a half at most? And what does controlling the conversation even mean? Half of the posts this cycle have considered lynching him. Is that a sign of his control? Joe, no thoughts on the main question in my last post? I do consider Alvron a potential target for the next lynch. I might even try him for this lynch, but looking at the numbers, I feel that changing my vote now would be unproductive. Perhaps you can share your thoughts on why you called out Alvron before the close of the cycle? Rrond troted in rough formation with the turquiose and orange wake of Jadebuffer the Eerie's entourage. The gaunt Returned strode toward Sharkbait the Incompetent's palace with unhuried grace, but being a full head tall than the average Returned, even an unhurried stride was enough to run his priests into the ground. At least Jadebuffer wasn't a Goddess, Rrond thought, not for the first time. Carrying one of those palainquins around would make him feel like a paulbearer. The gaunt Returned stopped in front of Sharkbait's main gate. The dead weight of his eyes clearly unnerved the guards, while his hands continued their unceasing polishing of the something under his thick, orange cloth. When he spoke, the sound was like pouring sand into an open grave. "I would speak with The Incompetent. His lack of activity in the Court has caused much concern." Jadebuffer's main quirk is inspiring morbid descriptions from all around him.

All day now, I haven't posted anything. Partially due to going to work (Yesterday was my day off, thus the greater volume of supplied text.), but primarily due to the results of the last cycle. Phattemer was a villager. I suspected that might be the case in light of his post after my last rebuke. Which I didn't get to see until waking up. I was up ever-so-slightly before the turnover, but taking the time to change votes then would have been fruitless, and I do prioritize work over gameplay. But, that is the way these games tend to turn out. Lots of mis-lynches. I did say I tend to be inaccurate. Mailliw was murdered. I had been hoping for a good discussion between the four experienced players. Then one up and gets slain before he had the chance to make any significant contributions. And I had been suspicious of his general activity level around the forum without posting here, wondering if that might point up his reading but not sharing. Nope, he was innocent. Two strikes. It took me a bit to realize that Adamir was not among the dead. Last night, I had suggested lynching him if he hadn't followed through. I have been having second thoughts on that all day. The eliminators get a kill every cycle, and only one active eliminator is needed to trigger it. There are at least three eliminators left in this game. Even if we treat this as a soft confirmation of Adamir being an eliminator, we still need to find the other two. If we grant him this last chance to use his breath, we may be able to get a different eliminator this cycle and get him next cycle. One problem that has occurred to me is that Adamir says he has sent the PM in, choosing someone at random from the lists provided. Wyrm was on several of those lists. If we go to lynch Wyrm (or someone else), and he doesn't send a new PM to countermand his order, we may have a wasted lynch. Wyrm, if you would like further clarifications on particular points behind my choice in last cycle's vote, I'll be happy to answer them, but I thought I was fairly clear why I'd gone through with that decision in this post. I recall one trick that is commonly used in SE is that eliminators choosing their kills by picking a notable player and killing anyone who shows suspicion of them or votes for them. This gives the impression that those people are on to something and encourages the village to lynch the notable player (who is, of course, innocent in such scenarios). This situation does not require much verbal boosting from the eliminators, but it is also possible that the eliminators feel the need to prod the village into that line of thought. Is it possible that this is being done to Wyrm? Votes and Player List As for my vote this cycle, I am (yet again) having a hard time. I always seem to get this stuff wrong. But, for most of this game, I have looked at the most experienced players, trying to judge who would I vote for in this situation. I have been suspicious of Joe for quite some time. Yes, I got the idea for "why is Joe being overlooked?" from his post. Yes, he changed his vote off of smart guy with the statement that he thought smart was likely innocent. But so little of what he has said was detailed reasoning. The types of statements he has made since his challenge of Meta feel so easy. Why not abandon the smart guy bandwagon when it was large enough to be a sure thing? Could be an easy way to gain some positive credit. That type of easy. Tactical, careful, well-timed, quick justifications. Am I right? Given my track record, maybe not. But I will vote for Only Joe nonetheless, and thereby tie the vote between him and Wyrm. I will try to be up shortly before the turnover, so if anyone wants to sell some other analysis, please do. Cycle Five Vote Tally: Orlok - 0: -Raven- Alvron - 1: Wyrm Vauhsoj - 1: Bort Jain - 0: -Vauhsoj- Only Joe - 2: Raven, Jerric Wyrm - 2: Alvron, Joe Lopen - 1: Vauhsoj

Thank you for that informative post, Alvron. Hopefully you will have the time to catch up on events here. If Adamir doesn't use his Breath tonight, he is most certainly going on the lynch list, since that will cost a lot of 'trust credit', as you put it. Phattemer, while I was rather torn earlier, and still am slightly annoyed at lynching an increasingly active player, your rants are not doing you any favors. You posted right after my giant wall-of-text, giving my name as a protection option and speaking moderately positively about me in your analysis list. Yet in that post, I proposed that the best use of a villager's last hours is to share every possible strategic technique and every reason you have both for and against the other players, to make best use of your upcoming alignment verification. (Now, that there is a funny euphemism for 'lynched by a mob'. ) You have instead chosen to rant and protest about being innocent for almost four hours. This seems like a desperate attempt to stay in the game rather than an effort to boost the villagers chances for victory. I have no desire to change my vote. Sorry. (Innocent or guilty, you are losing the chance to participate in the game. I consider that worthy of an apology.)

Cycle Four Vote Tally: Phattemer - 5: Raven, Wyrm, Lopen, Joe, Jerric Jain - 1: Bort Sir Jerric - 0: -Wyrm- Mailliw - 0: -Jerric- Bort - 0: -Phattemer- Wyrm - 2: Mailliw, Phattemer While I'd still like more detailed explanations of what elements of Wyrm's behavior he finds unsettling, I will withdraw my vote on Mailliw for this cycle. I will also add my vote to phattemer. As with all my votes, I'm not completely sold on his guilt, but I find him the least innocent-seeming of the options. And a fifth vote will ensure that the only shenanigan available is someone using their breath to bail him out. I despise bandwagoning. Excuse me while I grump at myself for placing this vote. If Phattemer does prove innocent, I am not sold on that implying Wyrm's guilt. But I am going to be very concerned about all surviving players with significant experience. If the eliminators aren't hitting them, there is a greater and greater chance that one or more are on their team. Whether they are advising their companions not to hit more of the experienced players after the comment was made about Meta's death in Cycle One, or if that many are among the eliminators remains to be seen. But I will be expecting greater discussions among Joe, Wyrm, Alvron, and Maill next cycle. Those last two have both said they should have greater availability for the next few cycles, so I want to read some nice analysis and cross-examinations, okay?

While I like "innocent until proven guilty", in these games I use "Suspect until proven innocent." I am just trying to vote for the most suspicious of a bunch of suspects. And you aren't? =) Point is, if we aren't leaning down on certain targets, we aren't making any progress here. We need to threaten people, see how they defend themselves, learn their patterns of behavior, and find the ones that aren't on the village side. What Wyrm was arguing against was your technique of creating a set. Those three people are conspiring in your argument. My reads of the game have not indicated such a collaboration. That's part of the fun. Scrambles for new plans tend to mistakes. Since the village has no other means of collaborating, why not talk about all the possibilities publicly? There are some challenges involved, but when everyone knows the systems by which Eliminators can be identified and removed, anyone can be lost without too big of a set-back. If we reveal nothing, then the only people collaborating are the eliminators. Which clearly gives them a serious advantage, as demonstrated in games like the first quick fix. If your only route to cooperation is in full view of the enemy, is the solution to not cooperate at all? Great to hear from you, Maill. I'll grant you a lack of time for a thoughtful response, but is my strategy really that solid? I can practically guarantee that it's not. If anyone cares to look at my signature, they will find that this is my fourth game. I'm not an expert. My voting accuracy has not been spectacular. I chose this strategy as an attempt to learn from the experienced players. This strategy is not a measure that succeeds when a lone player executes it all by his lonesome. I am challenging everyone in this game to do the same, to openly discuss how to best play as a team to win. If you say my plan is sound, but do not participate, you alienate yourself. If you say my plan is not sound, and explain why, then you are participating and I and the other players may be able to help you. And I win by having fun and learning new strategies. Not by surviving to the end. So please don't try to defeat me, since that means everyone stops talking. =)

In case anyone finds this helpful. Cycle Three Final Tally: Alvron - 0: -Jerric- Jain - 1: -Raven-, Venture Orlok - 0: -Bort- Vauhsoj - 0: -Wyrm- Adamir - 2: Vauhsoj, Alvron Lopen - 0: -Wyrm- Venture - 2: Raven, Orlok Bort - 1: Phattemer Phattemer - 1: -Bort-, Wyrm Player List: I am glad to see that phattemer decided to post something substantial. An analysis that once more pushes suspicion on Wyrm for his arguments with Meta. Why does everyone keep pursuing this same line? If Wyrm really were an Eliminator, why draw such attention to himself in a big argument with the Rebel Kill target? I find it far more likely that the two of them were disagreeing in pursuit of deeper discussion. Nothing kills a conversation so fast as complete agreement between the parties. On the other hand, The Only Joe started the argument with Meta. Why do so many people ignore him? Why so quick to attack Wyrm, while allowing Joe to fade into the background? That said, even though Joe has been less productive in adding to the discussion, my argument against voting for Wyrm holds equally to him, save for the part where he has not been equally attacked. Thus I wonder if people are deliberately deflecting attention to Wyrm. For now though, I will vote Mailliw, because he has been active around several places in the forum, yet has been neglecting to share his experience in SE with us. You are vocal enough in the current long game, But you did sign up for this one as well. I'd like to know how you would attempt to detect the Eliminators among us, if you'd be so kind. =) For Adamir, I'll put forward the names of Wyrmhero, RavenRadient7, and Bort, as I think them the least suspect thus far. No, I did not suggest myself. One interesting aspect to a game like this is that the credibility of one's arguments are established post-mortem. I've shared a great deal of my thoughts, the Eliminators might decide I'm a threat if I continue, but no one else has cause to trust me unless I perish first. So why protect myself? If any use of the power is a good plan it is this: being suspected, knowing you are innocent, and fearing to distract from pursuit of the Eliminators, together, that might be a strong enough reason to expend yourself to give the arguments that you have presented more weight. The only thing Adamir is missing here is a nice presentation of his suspicions and processes. The downside to this method is that you are removing a villager from play, which advances the Eliminators cause. Even if you happen to protect the Eliminators target, the villager is still down one, and the Eliminators have little reason not to try again. Unless the village rallies around the "trusted" one and continues to sacrifice themselves one by one to preserve them. (Notice how the pace of the game then advances identically to before?) and if they get smart and change targets, the village is down two instead of one. Messy. Wyrm: I see you would like to know why I didn't vote last night. Three reasons. One, as stated in the post, I was torn between the options and didn't feel confident enough to try condemning any of them. Two, the current leaders in the voting were both in my suspect pool, and I figured either was as good as the other. Three, I thought I might experiment with a presentation of my thoughts to see if anyone used them in the next few hours of debate, without voting myself to "start a bandwagon" for people to just jump on. By not voting, I realize that I made my presentation less forceful. You have noted of yourself that you have been perhaps too aggressive in your arguments. By being less forceful, I may have reduced the chances that the Eliminators would kill me, which I count as a minor mistake (see above). I'm playing a game with them, you see. I am being bold and challenging, using all available logic to try to find them. If I am right, I become a threat that they might want to remove, if I am wrong, I consider changing my targets to provoke them further. My aim is for them to kill me in order to reveal my alignment. If I am lynched, I've failed, because the village has wasted a cycle removing me. Thus my plan of using my breath if I attract too much lynch attention. If they want to lynch me, fine, I'll go, but I want them to lynch someone else so I can use my Breath instead. Is saying all of this in a public post a good method of threatening the Eliminators? Probably not. I suspect that they are less likely to ever target me after saying all of this. Or they will choose to kill me when my last shared suspicions are inaccurate to undermine the reasoning presented above. And now they know that you know that I think that they might consider that. Should I stop before I break everyone's brains? =) So, Wyrmhero (and Maill, and Only Joe), in return for this two hour composition, I'd like to know your thoughts on what the consequences of being this upfront in an elimination game are likely to be, on whether my strategy is any good, on whether my strategy is broken because I've publicly released it, and so on. Has anyone tried this before?

Yes, 'villager count' would have been a more appropriate term. I was trying to be creative, and wound up being confusing. My reasoning was probably clear enough in the original voting post, but I can repeat myself easily enough. I voted for him after seeing him repeatedly acting in contradiction to advice without addressing why he chose to do so. Particularly when he referred to another part of the post in which that advice was given. As events have proven, that was not effective reasoning, but that was the reasoning I used. Let me know if you have further questions. @Alvron: Sorry to hear about your scheduling challenges. I look forward to getting some constructive input from you, assuming we both remain alive to discuss things. To that end, I am withdrawing my vote for Alvron. Not that I trust you, mind. Just that I'm not ready to lynch you. =) @Everyone: We need to stop with the poke voting for the day and get serious about lynching a Rebel. Venture continues to bandwagon (or, vote for someone who already has a vote or more) without the slightest effort at adding to the discussion. Lopen, Jain, Vauhsoj, and Phattemer have also been unhelpful thus far, to my eyes, at least (very fallible eyes, might I add?). Jain, Alvron, and Orlok have pleaded Real Life conflicts for their absenteeism. Adamir, Mailliw, and Haelbarde have vanished. I don't know what to go for here, and I won't be on again until after the cycle ends. I've reread the entire game (again), and I'm concerned about Phattemer, Venture, and Mailliw, with a small helping on Joe as well. Adamir, I'm torn about. The idea that one Eliminator might might poke vote another as an opening is interesting, and he may have been advised to leave the vote. But that argument doesn't feel very definite. Those are my thoughts. Make what you will of them. Vote Tally: Alvron - 0: -Jerric- Jain - 1: -Raven-, Venture Orlok - 1: Bort Vauhsoj - 0: -Wyrm- Adamir - 2: Vauhsoj, Alvron Lopen - 1: Wyrm Venture - 1: Raven

If you recall cycle one, you might notice that I posted in similiar length without being poked. The reason I waited (for eight hours) to reply to your poke was waiting to get off of work for the day. This sign on, like yesterday, is being squeezed in between sleep and work. I mostly use these to follow the new thread, since I have some access to email while I am there. That said, I am disappointed in the loss of Kipper and Smart. Particularly Kipper, as we had an interesting dialogue starting that I had wanted to persue. I think he misinterpreted what I meant by "villager body count", since I was trying to refer to the live bodies rather than the dead ones. We have fifteen players left, three or possibly four of whom are Rebels. Inactives are part of our margin preventing the Rebels from winning, or are less-threatening problems that can be resolved when more active threats have diminished. I would like to hear from Alvron today, since I know he has been in several previous games, and has yet to share any of his thoughts on this one. I am also suspicious of The Only Joe, since his first objections to Meta, but in my previous games, I've proved myself not to be the best at picking targets (see Smart Guy for demonstration ). That is all I have time for for about the next twelve hours, so "ta ta for now." =)

While I am going to leave my vote on Smart Guy, my question does apply to Vauhsoj as well, if you wish to head off my next move. =)