Fatikis

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Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

Footnote: The first message comes from Brandon reaching out to Argent (Evgeni) on Facebook with a follow-up regarding this entry. This rest is from a Reddit PM exchange between Argent and Brandon.
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Argent

So he's more a savant with both of--

Brandon Sanderson

He's used them a lot, and they are changing his soul, and so the powers are morphing and changing. Just in slight, little ways. You're not gonna see a whole bunch. But you can imagine these two separate powers are kind of becoming one to him.

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It has been previously stated that you had to use the powers enough that they started to mix inside of you. Some of the quotes imply that the powers need to be used frequently so that they begin to mix. It may not be directly tied to savantism, but the terms are often used together. It does appear that for the effect to manifest the powers must be used together frequently enough to begin merging. 

With allomancers you would need to burn metal or access metalminds. As you aren't passively encountering investiture. Radiants are often taking investiture into themselves often unaware of this happening. It is possible the abilities are fueling themselves without active usage enough to mix. This next statement isn't backed up by any fact, but it seems to me that Radiants use far more investiture than others which may mean the powers begin to merge faster.

Edit: The powers may be merged in the sprens themselves.

First I want to say this is interesting, and I am glad that you shared. However I don't think much of this is accurate.

Now I think it is possible that there are connections between the two Cosmere fundamentals used and the resonances produced. That being said Wayne is not lightweaving. While there could be connection in the way two Cosmere fundamentals act when together they would not be identical or produce a new power. Two powers together create an effect. They would not produce another power like lightweaving. That being said even if this is true with the differing flavors of investiture you'd never get the exact resonance.

Division while little is known does not in anyway produce steel bubbles.
https://coppermind.net/wiki/Surgebinding#Division

The basis of your idea may have some merit, but the conclusions you've drawn are clearly not correct.

10 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

Resonances are the result of two powers (potentially more than two but definitely two) interacting which means all twinborn would have to have one.

Resonance is the result of two powers becoming one in the individual. Only twinborn who use the powers to extreme currently gain a resonances. This may change as Brandon has mentioned that he doesn't like how savantism is working currently. It may be that all twinborn will have resonance. Right now they do not.

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The Lord Ruler briefly ascended himself - no Shard ascended him. 

Preservation ascended him. 

We already know this to be the case. The Lord Ruler ascended. There are also splinters and Autonomy's avatars.

11 minutes ago, goody153 said:

That could easily mean a person of importance or it could even mean adonalsium or an abstract construct of great power. Somebody or something that Hoid already lost and he is seemingly seeking to bring back(Traveler Story where Frost says this to Hoid). 

Not a literal object.

 The response also sounds like taunting by Endowment to Hoid of trying to bring back something that is already gone. A sneer on Hoid's inability to move forward from the past.

I would not take stuff like this to literal sense unless stated so

I have no response. What you've said makes so little sense I cannot argue with it. Bearer of the first gem is directly stating it to be a literal gem. Gone dark shows this is a literal gem. There is no argument to be had here. The gem is a gem. Not a metaphorical gem. I don't even know how one bears a metaphorical gem.

13 minutes ago, goody153 said:

I don't think that we should take "bearer of the first gem" literally. It sounds like a metaphor to me.

Think it's more referring to probably a position of prestige or power. As hoid being somebody who first held it (could possibly mean first bearer of power or whatever that power is).

It is for sure a literal title. Bearer of the first gem is a very specific. It wouldn't make any sense to be metaphorical. He isn't metaphorically bearing the first gem. It is a specific item of importance that Hoid was tasked with.

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 Have you given up on the gemstone, now that it is dead?

It is likely why Hoid was once called Topaz.

14 minutes ago, Kaladin_The_Stormblessed said:

in the epigraphs of WoK the writer, presumably Hoid, states 

Given that this letter is most likely written by Hoid, and Hoid is thought to be the bearer of the first gem, it is safe to assume at this point that the element is the first gem. This quote leads me to assume that the first gem currently resides WITHIN Hoids body. We know Hoid has incredible regenerative properties, and according to a WOB somewhere that Hoid is ridiculously hard to kill, hiding the gem inside himself may have been seen as a relatively safe hiding place for it.

Don't we know that the element is Lerasium? Or was that just the general assumption? All knowing WoB beings I summon thee.

4 minutes ago, Johhny_Eastland said:

I've also wondered the same thing. But no one else seems to have touched on one major difference between Scadrial and Roshar. We also need to remember that Scadrial was made post shattering by Preservation and Ruin. Roshar was made during the time of Adonalsium and thus the cognitive realm associated with it. That's my theory as possible reason why Kelsier can see into the physical realm and those in the Cognitive Realm connected to Roshar cannot. Though its clearly more complicated than just this one reason.

My guess is investiture saturation and sentient thought causes the cognitive realm in Roshar to be so realized that it is essentially its own place. On Roshar everything is seen as being alive because of spren thus the cognitive side becomes more alive because it is thought of as such. The cognitive realm is known to practically no one on Scadrial. Only a few very close objects are personified much at all. With the very little investiture the cognitive realm would match Scadrial nearly exactly with the exception that low populated areas would likely be reduced in the cognitive realm.

We know Silverlight can study even planets without perpendicularities from the Cognitive realm. I believe this means that the less investiture the more similar the cognitive aspect is to the real planet. Roshar would be considered an oddball world because it is nearly impossible to study the planet via the Cognitive realm. I can't even imagine what it would look like from Sel.

If my theory is correct transformation on planets without more realized cognitive realms should be easier and require less investiture as the object does not have as realized of a cognitive aspect.

53 minutes ago, Calderis said:

In this case with Kenton... I think it does, but without asking the question or getting some other in world tie... good luck guessing. 

Pretty much this I doubt we can get any real information on this. It would be nice if we could get a WoB on it.

My straight up baseless speculation is that it might imply Kenton assisted The Lord Ruler in some way. Just as he gave the families that assisted him houses he may have named a road in Luthadel to honor him. It also would draw possible connections to The Lord Ruler and Autonomy.

When the north did burn,

God gave it little concern,

When the south proceeded to freeze,

Sazed ignored their pleas,

Harmony's morality is a growing concern.

18 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I'm fairly sure we can throw out Kelsier seeing things differently than those there physically. He interacts with three separate living people who all seem to be experiencing the same reality he is. 

Personally, I think every Cognitive Realm will be somewhat unique, barring common elements like the land/water inversion, and wagers obsidian appearance. 

I don't think either is an exception. 

I tend to agree here. The cognitive realm will likely differ due to levels of investiture, perceptions of sentient creatures on the planet, the planet itself, and the shards present. It will share similar threads with differing flavors.

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I just don’t see it. Bavadin playing with Scadrial doesn’t mean that Kenton has to be there as well. I don’t see the logic, sadly.

I'm not saying he for sure was. The fact a road is name after him points to me that Kenton at the least visited Scadrial.

I think the primary difference is the level of investiture. Everything is alive in Roshar's cognitive realm because their is so much loose investiture to soak up. On Scadrial there is very little loose investiture. Thing there are barely "alive". This makes the cognitive realm here very chill.
 

I can only imagine what Sel is like. You have two dead shards and investiture everywhere. The planet itself is gaining sentience. The cognitive realm their is probably insane.

17 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

 I wish I could forget about it.  And the TV series based on the Sword of Truth books wasn’t great either. 

To be fair. The Sword of Truth wasn't that great. By book 4 the main characters just gives 90% speeches about Randian libertarianism.

13 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Kenton sounds like a name that wouldn’t be too out of place on Scadrial. I guess its just named after some noble in-world. The real explanation is probably that Kenton was the main character of Brandons first book, and that Brandon added it as an easter egg for himself. 

Could very well be this. With everything going on in Scadrial with most likely Autonomy and Trell it would make sense if Kenton was at some point on Scadrial.

4 minutes ago, Stormblessed Dolphin said:

..How does Kenton work with the Lord Ruler exactly?

11 minutes ago, Fatikis said:

 He may have worked with The Lord Ruler in some fashion

I have no idea. Given the naming of a road in Luthadel I would suspect The Lord Ruler was aware of this.

Why does this mean Khriss did anything to Kenton?

I mean we suspect Trell is Autonomy. Kenton is Lord Mastrell. It could very well be that he had a major impact on Scadrial. He may have worked with The Lord Ruler in some fashion gaining him the name of a street.

All I want to see is Wax and Wayne series which is more based on the characters and ideas rather than the actual story. The Noncanonical Adventures of Wax and Wayne.

15 minutes ago, Blightsong said:

This is definist fallacy, cleansing does not neccesarily mean physical removal

Actually by the definition of cleanse it does mean physical removal. In the cosmere it would mean cleanse on every level physical, cognitive, and spiritual.
 

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The Voidspren had attached itself to Venli's very soul. Whatever Timbre did broke it's grip on Venli's soul but not all Connection, as we can see it still stuck around. 

So you are saying it didn't break the attachment on Venli's soul. It limited the connection. Which is not cleansing.

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This is pretty much exactly what we see with aluminum Allomancy, the effects of any kinetic Investiture are negated but it's not like it's gonna "clense" away the Allomantic Connections, it's just not destructive like that. 

It actually does not share any of the same properties of aluminum allomancy which wipes investiture similar to the fashion of a Larkin. It so far has not touched connection in anyway. Arguably on an extreme level it may cleanse you on a spiritual level which could manipulate connection.

Which by the way is specifically not what Timbre has done which is essentially imprisoning the spren and not cleansing.
 

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I mean the only other Spren we've seen physically trapped, having its kinetic Investiture subdued, on screen is Nightblood with his sheathe. I agree it's a stretch but the similarities are there and there aren't contradictions in the text as you suggest.

The connections you are making between aluminum and Timbre are beyond absurd. Timbre is literal investiture overpowering other forms of investiture. The fact investiture can interact with other investiture does not mean it shares properties of aluminum.

All of this by the way is irrelevant to the fact that even if Timbre is running on the same principals of aluminum (Which she clearly is not.) it does not in anyway support Adonalsium's godmetal being aluminum.

10 hours ago, Blightsong said:

The Realmatic Effects of Aluminum

I was just as stumped as Venli was until making the connection that Timbre also happened to be a Spren existentially linked to metal, it being the essence linked to Venli's assumed order. Both Timbre and Aluminum seem to be able to, as Brandon described the latter's effects "[clense] the spirit of unwanted effects of other Investitures". Seeing as how the only thing aluminum and Timbre share in common is this whole idea of metallic properties, I began thinking about what other phenomenon in the Cosmere relate to metals, and naturally I shifted my focus on Scadrial.

You seem to be drawing a lot of connections without evidence. Timbre is like Aluminum? How exactly? How is Timbre cleaning Venli's spirit? She specifically did not cleanse or remove the spren. She trapped it. This shares absolutely nothing in common with Aluminum.

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The Link To Godmetal

With all these new ideas and connections in my head I began thinking about how metals may be used in the defeat of a Shard-level being and immediately things started making sense. In the Mistborn series, there has been a clear theme in what is being used to combat Shards/Spiritual beings on that planet: Godmetals. While regular metals, tied to the magic, investiture, and essence of the planet, can be used to blind Shards; this seemingly Scadrial specific effect is nothing compared to a power that transcends the Metallic Arts and the resident Shardworld, Godmetals. As seen when Sazed encounters Trellium, they can directly act as a weapon against a Shard-level being, a property necessary for any weapon that has a chance at defeating Adonalsium, but there is an even more interesting example that I believe ties this whole thing together.

Something I never really thought of was how peculiar it was that Ruin had no ability to sense or interact with Atium directly, something seemingly made out of his own power. It was completely dark to him, the plot of the whole third book even revolves around how he needs it to defeat Preservation. Haven't we also seen this effect of an un-sensable metal elsewhere...

Aluminum is a naturally occurring metal. A real metal. Aluminum is part of the base 16 allomantic metals. If it was a Godmetal we are suddenly down to 15 allomantic metals AND aluminum could be alloyed to any of the other allomantic metals. Trellium had specks of red implying another shards investiture and not aluminum.

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Conclusion

Looking at all these connections, it seems so natural and obvious. The exact kind of long term, hail mary twist Brandon likes to pull on us. I believe that pre-shattering, Aluminum was Adonalsium's godmetal. A piece of his essence that he couldn't find, touch, or manipulate from the spiritual realm but had power within the physical one, a power that could be stolen and manipulated against a being that encompassed all of reality as was the case for Ati. For gods sake, the title of the series where all this is taking place even alludes to a metal with magical properties. The fact that Adonalsium is now dead and shattered could explain why this hypothetical godmetal has become inert and lost its magical properties.

It doesn't seem obvious. In fact it seems extremely unlikely. With Adonalsium dead the metal would no longer naturally form. If aluminum were Adon's Godmetal it would not exist on Scadrial ever. You can also soulcast metal into aluminum. Which pretty much instantly destroy's this theory.
 

On 8/17/2018 at 11:20 AM, Leyrann said:

Absence of evidence (us not having proof she is of Southern Scadrial culture) is not evidence of absence (her not having Southern Scadrial culture).

At worst we're at "we don't know, but her ancestors were Southern Scadrial".

I actually did not make this argument. That being said the burden of proof is connecting Iyatil to Kelsier. So far the best you have is that her parents were from the planet that Kelsier came from, and that at some point Iyatil wore a cultural item. 

9 hours ago, recneps said:

She was definitely raised with Southern Scadrian culture. Why else would she have their mask-wearing habits?
It doesn't mean that she has their religion, but she definitely has some major cultural elements from them.

Wearing a single item of cultural garb does not mean that she shares in the culture. It means she at least at a point wore the mask her native people wore. Also the mask has grown into her skin. The mask may not be by choice. She is a worldhopper from Silverlight. If you are looking for her culture I'd look there. This is basically like saying African American's have the same culture as the parts of Africa their people were from because at one point they were from there.

Just a thought. If there is no distinction in time or location in the spiritual realm. Opening yourself up enough to view the spiritual realm may allow more powerful or experienced beings power over you. Suddenly you go from something barely noticeable in the spiritual realm to an active player in the Spiritually realm that a shard may notice. It may also open you up to manipulation. A being with more experience might be able to tamper with what you see.

Just now, Steeldancer said:

I think Jasnah would accept the existence of Adonalsium, but not worship it. God Beyond, Jasnah would probably question. 

I agree. Adonalsium was a being of immense power, but he was obviously not unstoppable or infinite. I think the God Beyond is Adonalsium. Him being called this because he was god and passed beyond. Honestly, I don't think there really is a Beyond. While it isn't a subject that will be addressed in the books, I'm fairly sure the investiture is just returned to the universe or fades away.

You are going to run into problems trying to calculate the total number of magic systems due to minor shardworlds. There are a number of planets that have access to investiture and magic systems in which no shard resides. You are also going to run into issues with trying to figure out the number of magic system created by Adonalsium prior to shattering.

Magic systems all follow basic cosmere rules, but I don't see any reason why there would be a restriction on the number. It seems to me that as long as investiture exists "magic" could manifest in a near infinite number of ways.