Passion

Yes I agree they r insane but nale is clearly not as far gone as say jezrien was. I always got the impression from nales own comments that he mostly has it together albeit with really flawed judgement and isolated moments were his tortured mind takes over for a bit. While Ishar really does seem to be cookoo that doesn’t mean his actions are completely nonsense just destructive and erratic. nale actually expresses awareness and understanding about the herelds descent into madness and yet seems fooled by what Ishar told him so that must tell u something about ishars ablity to hide his true state of mind

The following caought my eye: 2 things are said to only have been possible after honor died. The stormfather implies what dalinar did when he united the realms and created a perpendicularity was only possible after honor is dead and his power is not held by anyone. The other is Ishar believes the radients could have caused desolation now that honor is dead. Ishar is insane but I for one totally believe he couldn’t be completely off base. Nale at least accepted the possibility and I don’t think he’s so far gone himself(note we see nale acknowledge he’s losing it we see Szeth comment on Ishar madness and still nale in same conversation persists in presenting what Ishar told him) i undarstand Ishar to have been worried about what a radients like dalinar can do to upset the affect taln had by being in braise. He was worried about something on the magnitude of what dalinar did by challenging odiums champion. He definitely could have undid the heralds barely held together oathpact

Just thought I’d add something I just noticed. In the last vision from storm father after the world is shown destroyed then all the lights in the sky wink out. Though whole passage went over my head at first but I now understand from the context it was saying that odium threatens not just Roshar but all the planets and all the shards. This is followed by another unite them... so yes I’ve joined the group who believe unite them refers to more than just Roshar but rather all the shards ( or something similar)

Doesn’t it say outright there were never more than three? i do like ur point about whether the third one was bonded at time of recreance and broke because of that. Never thought about that before. Calls attention to the implication from stormfather that the third sibling suffered enough

What Navani comments are u referring to exactly?

Ok here’s my theory: odium has two magic systems one is voidbinding, it involves bonding his spren and was made post his arrival with humans on Roshar. This one was made to model the investiture and magic system used on Roshar by honor and cultivation. The other was what humans had on their original home planet and prob. Is as diff from anything we’ve seen as the magic in Roshar differs from that on Scadrial. This is the stuff the dawnshards r made of. My main textual support from this is based on what I noticed in ars arcanum in which the radiant surges are graphed and then underneath it says some thing about her not being certain how voidbinding or its cousin old magic fit into this paradigm or indeed at all.(sorry don’t remember it’s exact wording. I first thought this refers to magic pre shattering from adonasolum but realized then why doesn’t she know it? Also in what way is it the cousin to the arts of voidbinding? I currently understand it to refer to magic before Roshar which is odiums and thus a cousin to voidbinding. what I like about this is that I think it fits nicely that once on Roshar odium changed his magic a bit to steak from what honor and cultivation had going. I also like that it makes the human designation of parshendi as voidbringers accurate. Yes the humans were the invaders yes they brought odium but no, only the parshendi voidbind. That’s because odium never succeeded in having humans take in voidspren until oathbringer (that’s what it says in the book. I always understood this to be because they were to diff. From humans to bond but parshendi could receive them in their gemhearts and be controlled only a human racket bond which is in the cracks of their soul needs to “fit”) ehat do u guys think

In front of chapter 116 we get a fragment of the Eula stele. “Their betrayal extended even to our gods,to Spren,stone and wind.” This clearly expresses that which we already learnt in words of radiance from eshonai chapters that the spren used to be on the side of the parshendi and changed sides. It seems obvious to me that wind refers to the stormfather and it directly follows that this passage is referencing the 3 bondsmith spren. I think the first one spren is a reference to nightwatcher (think of her description in the chapters Dalinar visits her). This then reveals stone as the 3rd bondsmith spren. all of a sudden I have to wonder whether there might be something to the shin stone shamanism and their insistence in not walking on stone. (Even if it is still likely the shin tradition is as misguided as the Alethi one). also I obviously would have to take seriously the theories about urithiru (as an aside I noticed the stormfather specifically told dalinar the third bondsmith is not hiding just slumbering and also that he refered to him as them in plural) hope u guys like my observations and I’m not accidently repeating stuff everyone already knows

I always read the scene between Kelek not as admission to active interference but as admission they were aware szeth had the honorblade and was going to kill and they didn’t interfere(I can’t imagine herelds are thrilled when they see their blades pop up in the hands of others)to take it from him. I don’t think they actually knew who he planned to kill though

When I finished the book the main question I found myself pondering was so what in the world made honor and cultivation switch sides? I mean humans coming to rasher murdering parshendi and destroying the world the shards created wasn’t going to endear them to everybody! Then I realized it prob. Happened in the reverse. Prob. Odium changed sides and began to interfere to help the parshendi, maybe he saw an opportunity to interfere with honor and cultivation maybe he just liked their passion or whatever. After that honor and cultivation felt pity for the humans odium abandoned helplessly to the fused, maybe they also felt odium had manipulated humans and the humans weren’t to blame. Or maybe the just felt with odium attempting to work with parshendi they didn’t have any other tool with which to stop him but to work against him with the humans. Anyhow that’s my theory... odium betrayal came first and the other shards simply reacted. That’s the only thing I can see bringing honor and cultivation over to the human side. What do u guys think? Upvote or downvote as u wish!

Actually I couldn’t wait for his book from the the beg. Of prolouge in wok... I mean the book of the one one who got left behind was bound to be the best duhhhh!

We know warbreaker was written as back story for nightblood so his part in stormlight archive is actually his main part. So this begs the question, who does nightblood need to kill that can’t be killed except by a sword that breaks all the rules of magic on this planey( there’s a reason Brandon didn’t just make him another type of shardblade) in oathbringer he played a fun role but he killed no one of significance... so I repeat who does nightblood need to kill?

This came from nale while he was admitting he was insane...regardless I just don’t read it that way, it sounds real to me

I’m a little confused I was leaning towards ishar as Temima being crazy off his rocker- I mean just check some of the outlandish grandiose claims he’s made... and also check out what direction he sent nale in originally... but at the end doesn’t nale make an offhand commeng that ishar is the only one unaffected by craziness?

Just want to say I’m really liking my call here after that audio came out. It’s not to late for some upvotes(wink wink)

I was reading random wor chapters and thus read the rsyn interlude and the lift interlude consecutively. The caused me to realize the creature that rsyn receives for her efforts is described exactly the same as the one nale uses to suck stormlught from lift and disarm her. They are both described as crem with winds and it seems to be the same creature!! Has this been noticed before? Do we know anything about this creature from wob? I for one have been totally wondering what’s rsyn s role sa and hope to read about her Tuesday!!

Their surges to ours def. sounds like will end up with own powers and the radients powers! i assume it means a better path bec. It’s called a new world. And the last quote about nightform speaks of new life and challenged Champion also influenced me...the whole thing just sounds like a prophecy the listeners are preserving as favorable to them and of hope

What transformation did hoid expect the storm to bring? why did she need to escape?

Did anyone understand this epilogue bec. I for one am very confused (as I assume I’m supposed to be) - “you’ve Been making quite a disturbance on the other side” wit said, “its been a long time since the spren have had to deal with someone alive” so she went to get info from the spren -“if it’s not happening as it did before then everything I know could be false. The words of the highspren could be inaccurate...” so she spoke to some super important spren called a highspren(though the switch from info being false to Soren inaccurate. Is distracting me...she doesn’t say the spren is mistaken she seems to think the iknowkege being false only leaves the Soren’s word inaccurate?!) -“I was somewhat pressed at the time of my escape” so does anyone get what happened-did she find herself at odds with spren what could have caused that? and last jasna quote the 2nd to last quote which I left incomplete ends as follows “...the records I seek could be meaningless” note the present tense... she is not talking about what she’s done but what she is presently doing... she still sells records? What vital info does she still need that she couldn’t get from spren? one thing from wits quotes caught my eye “...I believe that the storm will bring the transformation” wait...the haven’t transformed into voidbringers...hoid is misinformed ?!?(there’s no way he just meant transformed out of slaveform) come to think of it jasnahs question is weird she asks about the storm and if they transformed... if she didn’t think the storm would transform them if what significance was the storm to her?!? heeeelp

Of course when at home tissues our always preferred...just gotta be extra careful during allergy season to make sure the soft creamy ones don’t make their way to the bathroom-using those are gross (if ur sensory like me)

Under...all the way...if ur reading while on the toilet u need to be able to use one hand...and that takes leverage!!!

In the words of radiance we are introduced to bits of the listner songs heading many chapters. The following bits caught my eye chapter23 Then chapter 33 Note the two blurbs are actually identified as being consecutive(9th and 10th stanza respectively) chapter 34 So let’s put it to get her and this tells a number of things 1) the parshendi have prophecy’s that survived from nightform. Prophecies which tell of eventually managing to reverse their course and make things better. I personally suspect the entire purpose of the parshendi listeners who revolted against the unmade where influenced by their desire to sustain and preserve this peophecy 2) the pivotal event which will set this change up is the coming of a new storm. I take it this is the everstorm we have seen! So maybe not all listeners will end up voidbringers-hope yet remains!(at least for the long term) 3) they can ultimately end up combining their forms with surgebinding...hmm so it does sound like they can bond spren just like a radient(unless I’m misreading this and their forms of power alone which come with surgebinding powers our what’s being combined- I prefer to think even forms of power are all including in “our surgebinding” and theirs is radiency) 4) that last bit about a challenged champion and strife even odium must requite is gibberish to me. I want victorious champion or defeated champion this I can interpret but what does challenges champion mean? Strife he must requite, huh? No idea what it means but it sure sounds like a hint about the ending... anyhow please dont don’t hesitate to bash this post or anything I really wanna hear what some other pple think!

I think this whole thread on the morality is is a big misconception. It presumes we have to classify this as right our wrong. This is so 21st century. Who died and made u g-d? There is no overarching right or wrong, only are you parshendi or human. The only 'right' way forward is to relate to the past as it helps u move forward so the right way for the listeners reawakened from slaveform is to react with righteous indignation and only to play this card as far is it gets them benifits when dealing with humans. If they do this the parshendi are great leaders and morally "right" ... same goes for the human response if by responding we were wrong to enslave them there is a complete breakdown in ability of pple to deal with the event bec. There was no other feasible option, modern humans didn't have choice. If this logic which is at least vaguely correct and is preventing humanity's from parshendi from moving forward and creating confusion then accepting responds litt is useless and is not morally correct in a nutshell:the only morally correct compass is to look forward and help everybody live. Better lives Here on. You cAn not lie steal and abuse pple ever and if that was the case it would never be morally correct but it's not. It's about which lenses to place on the past and since all lenses are true it's just a matter of picking the perspective which is most helpful going forward

Ion very much support the idea that the listener enslavement happened after the last desolation. I have previously noted on a dif. Thread that in an eshonai chapter where eshonai talks to her mother about the past it is implied the listeners that make up eshonai group faced a dangerous event centuries ago which was a danger to their existence and caused them to stop using all forms for fear of the unmade and revert to only 2 basic foms(dullform,mateform) to throw off their control. The desolations were millennium ago... so some major voidbringers/parshendi event we haven't heard anything about happened in 'recent' memory and maybe that's when your theory would add that herelds also got involved. there is one other interesting scene where eshonai transforms into stormform where we find out the parshendi have a unique relationship with the stormfather they blame him for going over to the humans but still grow him as someone who originally worked with them and hasn't broken the connection fully. I can't decide if this supports ur theory the bondsmiths are responsible for the skavery or disproves it(cuz it is implied all they blame him for is giving pple spren not anything else which brings me to question I'm beg. To ask my selves.... does eshonai and his band of parshendi know what happened to turn their kin to slaveform? If they don't how did it come about that they are unaware whatvcaused the gap in their knowledge??

Just wanted to put it out there that I believe the traiter is referring to venly... a reread emphasizes she changed very little when transforming which implies she already was in league with odiums side. The clinching factor is in those chapters(forget exactly where) it is overemphasized the danger of her scholarly pursuits is ambition

Wondering what u sharders think... one of the best plot lines I can think of for shallan is if her ghost blood obligations/commitment set her against adolin forcring her to choose. One great way to set this in motion is if the ghost bloods are responsible for the second murder-and NOT for the purpose of deflecting blame from adolin. Pos. it somehow is a play against adolin and even if it wasn't adolin def. seems intent on hunting down the second murderer