Aminar

5 hours ago, Karger said:

Soulcasting does not preserve mass it preserves shape.

We've seen things diffuse out when changed from matter into smoke. It makes sense they can diffuse in. That doesn't change the fact iron sand is very not dangerous, even at 7 g's with dispersal in clouds. You'd be converting individual water molecules into iron... Uh... Somethings. Changing a vapor into a solid just doesn't work. We haven't seen a good example of how that works when you're literally changing diffuse atoms spread over a wide space into something. I imagine it would be wildly hard to describe though. Point being, it doesn't become a square kilometer of solid iron. Itt's at best itty bitty dust molecules coming down with the force of next to nothing by 7 gs by all the wind chucking it miles away because its mass is negligable. 

9 hours ago, Karger said:

Generally actions come after the oath.  You are given understanding of a what or a why you swear the oath and then you take action.  Highspren likely care more about the action then most however.  Add to this that we know at least one skybreaker did not have plate for two decades.  They could have gotten it much sooner and just waited for the right opportunity to swear the oath.

Or they couldn't decide on a crusade/didn't want to go on one yet. Picking what amounts to a violent eagle scout project you believe will bring more law to the world isn't always an easy process. Szeth however. The moment he has leave to go to Shinovar he's doing it. I imagine his Oath will be, "After this battle I will cleanse my homeland of injustice." He gets Plate. Saves Dalinar's life. And then he's off and we don't see him until the next book where he's tracking down the final few Stone Shamans. 

17 hours ago, earthexile said:

Bridge Four should get themselves a Soulcaster fabrial. Picture flying high over an enemy force, transforming a raincloud into iron, then Lashing it down at six or seven times gravity. 

That wouldn't work. You'd get diffuse steel sand raining down hundreds of miles away blown by the wind. Even with a ton of extra gravity. Depending how the mass parts work in that equation it's likely you'd be getting very little steel relative to area out of the idea as well. A cubic Kilometer of cloud weighs 1around 1.1 million lbs. You'd get about 63 cubic meters of steel out of that spread over a kilometer. It'd be a damnation wispy diffuse cloud getting buffeted around by the wind and not going anywhere near where they want it. 

35 minutes ago, Karger said:

Are they?  All of the Skybreaker oaths are about doing things.  I will seek justice, I will follow this code.

Kaladin is protecting people before he swore any oaths.  He only gets the words once he figures out the reasoning behind the oaths.  You can say that you have a goal any time.  It only starts to matter when you start taking real concrete steps to achieving that goal.  Brandon actually likes to talk about this(he did so in Alcatraz and during the Starsight release date).  Brandon always wanted a dragon.  However he desire lead to nothing until he realized that Magellan had all the qualities of a dragon that he wanted(speech, flight, bright colors).

There are steps that lead to the oaths. But those steps are understanding that you want to aspire to. It would be entirely backwards from every other oath not made by a Lightweaver to have the 4th Skybreaker oath come after the crusade. And the Lightweaver oaths basically have an invisible I understand this about myself implied. They're therapy revelations. 

On 8/9/2020 at 4:18 PM, Watchcry said:

They are however Brandon says they are. 

That's nice. There's still a massive difference between Dalinar's Behavior and Gavilars. And what Gavilar does is wrong to the point there is no justification. Lots of things were normal that are very wrong. People spoke up and those things changed. 

6 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

The Heavenly ones have too much Honor for people using the Odium's investiture. Interestingly, other Fused don't have that.

To be fair, they are likely a twisted form of Honorspren in a way. Like, their orders likely share ideals with similar Radiant orders, just twisted by Odium's rhythms somehow. So Honor might be Contest. Striving for fair fights in their violence while the Willshaper Version might be Choas rather than Freedom. Although I think they would have to be escalated versions of emotions. Chaos doesn't work that way the same way Contest does. Competitive spirit is a powerful emotion and relates to The Thrill

16 hours ago, Lightspine said:

I saw somebody on a different post say that darts probably won't be much more than a nuisance for Fused, since they can heal. So I have an alternative idea: grappling hooks!

Have some sort of a hook attached to a rope. If you can snag a Fused, you get a massive advantage, especially since their only edge is their mobility. If you have them on a leash, you can reel them in and make that advantage void (hehe).

Also, this might sound ridiculous but maybe something like a wingsuit? Kaladin describes how changing course by using wind resistance allows for more elegance and precision flying. Exactly what a wingsuit could enhance. Having some sort of flaps to catch the wind might slow you down, but it would also make it easier to turn sharply/control the direction of your flight. In short, it could help them move more like the Fused.

Edit: just noticed another commenter thought of wingsuits first.

I imagine healing around a serrated dart and then moving could get very frustrating and painful and waste a lot of voidlight. So far we haven't seen that kind of creativity from the Radiants, but given Brandon I suspect he's waiting for the right time. 

I mean... Wow. If you can't understand why Gaz felt pressured into the things he did and why that's perfectly understandable I can only be glad you've never had the need to feel his perspective for yourselves. He was in debt, trying to do a job, under the thumb of a truly awful person. He left because it became too much. He set himself on the path of redemption with Shallan. That's how rehabilitation works. 

Do the preview chapters for that slow buildup with lits of time to process, discuss, and predict. Then binge the hell out of the rest. It is the way. 

20 hours ago, Karger said:

Because it makes more sense?  This way you have to actually do the work before you get the reward.  Also only getting plate when you figure out the meaning behind your crusade or understand the right way to finish it makes a lot more sense.  Szeth has already sworn oath four by your logic.  Why would any spren grant anything for saying you want to do a thing?  No effort or progression is involved.

Probably because it draws attention.  Nale prefers to keep things on the down low.

All of Kaladin's oaths are about wanting to do a thing. He will protect those who cannot protect themselves. The whole point of the oaths is to bind yourself to aspirations. To gain power by wanting to change the world so that you can do so. It's entirely the opposite of doing the work to earn power. It's swearing to do the work and being given tools to make you better at doing it in return. 

20 hours ago, MyrmidonOfAchilles said:

So here’s the actual quote for context:

My take on it after the Syl interlude and pretty confirmation of the cousinspren plate theory is that Mr. T is referring to the subspren that could be bonded to a radiant as armor.

Not reading the Syl interlude. It's out of order. But I don't think that's accurate. The lesser Spren aren't bound in the same way. I doubt Shardplate is always the same Spren, so much as Spren drawn to the Radiant at the time. 

18 hours ago, Quiver said:

Not sure I quite agree with this as the reason not to have it happen. There is a long-standing trope in fiction for male characters to be paired off with female characters who are younger than them, or (to use on screen examples) for men to play the long-interests to much younger women. 

Now, I admit, I'm a bit unclear on what the ages of the characters involved here are - my Cosmere knowledge is a lot more lakcing than it should be - but I don't think this ship should be ruled out on the basis of age difference, particularly since Jasnah seem's like the type of character who would be attracted to someone due to their intellect and personality rather than any kind of physical attraction.

(There are still potential consent and rank issues involved, given she's a monarch and he's not, but still.)

Anyway, point is, I don't think the age gap is a reason this romance couldn't work out. Granted, I also low-key shipped Kaladin/Jasnah back when I started reading the books, so I am far from objective on this.

I've only really ever seen that trope as used to show when a character is particularly sleezy. I've never been comfortable with it and I don't think swapping the genders makes it any better. I think that until a person is in at least their 30s wide age gaps like that are grossly unfair and exploitative to the younger party. 

11 hours ago, Karger said:

 

Dude. Brandon always plays games. That character isn't. He's not lying about anything. Brandon is quite probably using the term Master to misdirect.  But you're taking a lot at face value that doesn't logically add up. I mean really, who goes on a Crusade without some badass armor? Why would the oaths be structured that way? Think like a writer. 

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Half-shards arent different than other fabrials as far as we know, they are just Augmentor Fabrials.  They dont use Sapient Spren, if that's what you were thinking.

 

To the OP, Im with most here: it's the spren equivalent of animals, with all the same cultural divergence of opinion and fuzzy morality.  Syl's aunt likes to Hunt some spren, and many are objectively dangerous enough in shadesmar to warrant such things.  Many spren naturally join a living fabrial in one of the many Gemheart symbiotic relationships, so it's not like the process is innately unnatural or painful to the spren involved.  Also the Oathgate spren seemed sad that they could no longer serve their fabrial purpose, so they are not unhappy about being fabrials, at least.  All that to say it will come down to individual treatment; using a horse or ox for farm labor is not innately evil (imo) but if done without compassion it can easily become abusive.  

Past that I suspect several things but couldnt prove them:

• Different spren cultures will have wildly different opinions on the matter, just like everything else. 
• While not all fabrials are unpleasant to be in, some are probably worse than others.
• I suspect that the fabrials that mimic Surges directly (Soulcasters, Regrowth Fabrial, etc) house Sapient spren that chose/were convinced to help but didnt want to commit to a full Nahel Bond.  

 

 

Half shards are stated to use Spren that could cause a Radiant. Oathbringer Chapter 100 according to the Coppermind. 

11 minutes ago, Karger said:

Seems pretty explicit.

I disagree. It seems perfectly designed to be absolutely truthful while not saying what you think its saying. What is "A master like ourselves". Master in this case implies entrusted to teach other Skybreakers. It implies a leadership position. It implies allowed to not be on their crusade. But we haven't seen any Skybreakers on their crusade. They'd be off crusading after swearing the oath to do so. The oath that unlocks Shardplate. 

48 minutes ago, Karger said:

The Skybreakers say that you have to complete your crusade to your spren's satisfaction.

I know. I looked up the scene. They don't say that's how you get armor. They say that's how you are recognized as a master. The oath itself seems to be the crusade. And the armor would come when the oath is sworn, not when the crusade is completed.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

OB is a stoneward unfortunately.  I think most of them will have plate by book five although Szeth won't(he will have to finish his crusade first and I don't see that happening).

Finish or begin? It seems like the 4th oath for him would be "I will bring Justice to my homeland or the like." Not, "I brought Justice to my Homeland." I would guess he swears to his crusade, gets the armor, but must complete the crusade to the specifications of his High Spren to be accepted as a Master Skybreaker by the Skybreakers. But I doubt the oath itself represents a task already done. 

1 minute ago, Watchcry said:

I see this as something that was normal 100 years ago in some cultures (arabic, east asian to name a few). So Gavilar would have felt right at home.  Dalinar did degrade her sometimes imo, though.  

Normal doesn't mean right. And given the age of civilization on Roshar I don't judge them as even 100 years ago. It's been like 4500 years since the last desolation. 4500 years ago the Ancient Egyptians were in their golden age. They might as well be a modern society with magic rather than our version of technology. 

I believe in addition to the Herdazians, that the Horneaters have significant Listener heritage. And given their backstory I'd guess they were originally a singer enclave that took in more and more humans overtime. 

55 minutes ago, joesleepsalot said:

Pathfinder, touché I’ll concede that point. With regards to everything else, Has anyone ever seen springer episodes and/or seen what happens on the daily between complete non-matching types lol. Reasons and logical positions and age gaps amongst adults aren’t part of the equation in this arena...in real life they rarely are. Math equations here are like Mr Bennet (The short awkward guy) trying to woo Lizzy in pride and prejudice lol. Between now and book 10, I’m willing to bet this goes down. The fact that it hasn’t happened or been mentioned yet is just stage prep.

That's just not true. There are exceptions but most relationships between equals are within a few years of eachother. A decade at most and rarely more than 5 years. There are myriad reasons why that is, but in the end modeling that kind of age gap as appropriate is wrong. 17 years is a lot of life experience. It would amount to Jasnah taking advantage of Kaladin. If it didn't matter in the real world we'd see it far more often. 

Beyond that, Jasnah needs nobody. And that's awesome. 

My bet is on a Spren owned by a Radiant in the Sons of Honor. Potentially a misguided Truthwatcher. I feel like they're the most vulnerable to joining cults in seeking the Truth and trying to speak truth to power. Much like the many people who believe conspiracy theories because they want to be finding the true villains/want things to be black and white but looked in the wrong place. 

Sadeas. So far he's done the most on screen awful. If Ialai were on the list I'd be tempted to pick her because she's alive and just as involved in all that awful. Gavilar may take that cake eventually, we'll see. Amaram is bad but most of what he did gets laid at Sadeas's or Ialai's feet first. Moash sucks but is smaller scale. 

1 hour ago, Watchcry said:

Dalinar did the same to Evi, didn't he?

Dalinar and Evi had significant cultural misunderstandings. They struggled to bridge that gap. But he wasn't in the habit of degrading her and destroying her sense of self worth in order to bind him to her. On the other hand, he killed her horribly. But not intentionally or knowingly. Arguments aren't inherently abusive. Every relationship is going to have them. No 2 people on the planet share exactly the same goals, needs, and desires in a relationship. There will always be some conflict. Especially when people have massive responsibilities like Dalinar did and does. The difference lies in how the people in the argument handle things.

Not to mention the fact she's 17 years older than he is. Still gross and still shouldn't be something we're seeing at the focal point of a story. 

Half Shards aren't ok. Taking High Spren and trapping them is 100% wrong. Other fabrials are different. Personally if I'm willing to kill a cow to eat its meat(and I am) I also think its ok to use a Fabrial powered by what amounts to a cognitive animal. That said there are places I would draw the line. While I'm willing to eat meat I'm not willing to torture an animal. If the fabrial is causing greater than ordinary pain to the spren then no it isn't humane. There is an element of care that needs to be taken as well. Fabrials should be upkept, with constant Stormlight and the like. A bit like a useful pet. They should be well fed and well cared for. I almost wonder if Fabrials that are treated well don't operate more efficiently. It would be interesting to see Navani have an assistant that's constantly chattering at her Spanreed like it's her favorite kitten. And because she does it can hold Stormlight l weeping and do little doodles on its own for her.